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  • #356534
    loveandkisseszaphod
    Participant

    Hello again,

    Last time I struggled with a relationship, writing down everything in this forum was quite helpful. So once again I’ll do that and see if anyone would be kind enough to read it all and give me a perspective or at least a “don’t worry” hug:) I’ll write down everything so it will be long, sorry.

    I met this guy on a dating app. I knew who he was because he’s a somewhat-known artist.We texted for about 2 weeks and then he invited me to his exhibition that just opened. I really was sooo excited to meet him but that night turned out to be quite strange. He was touchy and huggy from the first minute. After we saw some of his works, he asked if I wanted to hang out at his atelier and I said yes. We went there and the moment we went in, he locked the door and started kissing and touching me in the dark. I got a little scared. Told him to stop and switch on some lights which he did. We stayed there for about 2 hours. It was a makeshift place, looked liked a warehouse. We talked, and made out and looked at some of his art. But he was far too physical and insistent maybe in a teenagery way. I told him I liked him as a person and an artist and I was very attracted to him and didn’t want a one-night stand with him but rather see him again. (maybe not in direct words like that, but inbetween kissing, I tried to be as clear as possible) He said he didn’t see it as a one-night stand, but it was technically impossible for us to be a couple because he lives in another city and  was here for the exhibition (I didn’t know) and soon he will move back to another country (I knew he’d lived abroad on and off)  Asked him if it was his intention to have sex bringing me to his atelier right after we met, he said ‘no I don’t even have condoms here’ (romantic) What is strange for me is I found that experience so sexy. I was initially scared of him, then confused with his directness but was very turned on by the experience. He wanted to come home with me but I declined. In fact I think I wanted to spend the night with him but maybe because we talked too much about whether or not we should have sex that night, it became unnatural. Why was I so confused?

    Very early the other day, he texted me good morning and I couldn’t reply for hours because I didn’t know how to react to this guy.Then I thought I don’t have to make a yes no decision. Instead I wrote him exactly how I feel. That I liked him a lot and I am really attracted to him but it was strange for me and I was even scared in the beginning. He said he was sorry that he scared me off , he didn’t realise it because I seemed to have a good time with him that night. He didn’t mean to make me feel that way etc. Then he said he didn’t want this to end bitterly, he wanted to meet up for coffee sometime, I said maybe.

    After that day I guess, my obsession for him started.

    I waited anxiously for him to text for a few days, he didn’t. So I did,  and we met the other week. I said I wanted a proper date , so I took him to a concert, we had a good time together then we spent the night at my place. We had sex and he asked me “so what has changed really? why not the night we met but tonight?”  He said “how can someone decide if it will be a one-night or more if you don’t give it a try?” Does he have a point or is it basic womaniser speech?

    After that night together, he went back to his city. (If I did not do all this back and forth play, we’d see each other a few times more)  We were talking about meeting again when he visits but then the corona lockdown thing started. And the situation of being away worsened my obsession and I fell for him

    The first month we were quite in touch. We did some sexting and sent each other nudes which is a first for me, I haven’t done any of this before. The second month he became distant. He didn’t write much but also didn’t leave my messages unanswered. He said he was busy with work, or he felt not in the mood.  Then I started stalking. Constantly checking his twitter and instagram to see what he posts, who he talks to etc. He likes interaction and has ten thousands of followers so I had a lot of material to stalk. I saw some flirting with some girl and stalked her as well.

    I didn’t want to intimidate him so I didn’t text him that often. maybe once a week or so. But him not starting a conversation anymore made me feel this way :  I was worried that he saw me clingy. I was worried that he thought of me as some girl he slept with months ago who still craved his attention. I was worried that he thought I was thick not to understand that he wasn’t that into me anymore. And I felt really sad. Maybe living alone in the lockdown made it harder for me and I overthought.

    So last week I saw him write on twitter that he was looking for a carpool to visit my city.  I felt excited and sad at the same time. Because he was coming here,I dreamt about it in my lockdown days. But he didn’t even bother to tell me. First I wanted to ignore this info but I couldn’t. I decided to ask him directly instead of ruminating over it. It was 10 days since we last spoke. He was quite responsive, told me it was only for 1 day because there are travel bans and he had a special permit. I couldn’t ask why he was coming for because I thought it was for that girl:) I asked him if we weren’t going to see each other and he said maybe we could, if he could arrange the time and we’ll see. I told him “yeah ok, but please keep me informed either way” and he said sure he would.

    It was 2 days ago. He came here and went back but he did not contact me. I kind of hoped that we’d see each other.He didn’t even write me he had no time left after running errands, and he has to go back or something like that.

    I will not contact him anymore because I feel humiliated now. I was already hesitant to write to him for about a month now and I couldn’t act natural. But when I decided to reach out to him last time, I thought ok I’m not acting that proud but I would understand for sure and it would be a closure for me if he didn’t meet me when he comes here.

    So apparently this is over. Why do I feel this confused from the beginning? What does this guy trigger in me?  Can you really tell from the beginning if a guy is only a hookup, or just a f*ckboy. When sex is involved, and then the communication goes on, I always feel like there is something there. But I think for men it’s usually a different story. What did I do wrong? I really wanted this to work out for us.

    I don’t have much experience in dating and maybe I am being silly.Why does he act like that? He doesn’t exactly do ghosting. He does not directly say it is difficult for us to keep in touch or he isn’t interested anymore. He replies if I write. Is it his way to cool things off but still keep me as a hookup? I tried to be honest with him abut how I feel always but is it a bad idea with men? Is he using me? Or he just doesn’t care at all and I do all the thinking by myself?

    #356548
    Inky
    Participant

    Dear Loveandkisseszaphod,

    OK, you are dating a B-list artist/celebrity. For every 10K followers there are 100 obsessed girls like you he got with. I hope you used protection because who knows what STDs he’s carrying around oh so casually. Seriously.

    What he did is done in sales all the time. “RUG SALE! GOING OUT OF BUSINESS! IN THIS CITY FOR 2 DAYS ONLY!! WILL NOT BE BACK UNTIL SUMMER 2022!!!” Time is limited, future uncertain, why won’t you get with me? is the idea he’s trying to convey.

    His line, “How do you know if you don’t like one night stands or not until you try”??? Please!

    Girl, you have got to be VERY clear about what YOU want! This B-Lister has sailed. Stop contacting him. Maybe after his fifteen minutes is up he will contact you again, but you’ll say, “You had your chance.” And mean it.

    Best,

    Inky

    P.S. It’s amazing to me how many people are ghosting. Ironically during a pandemic.

     

    #356554
    loveandkisseszaphod
    Participant

    Dear Inky,

    Thanks you made me laugh:):) My shrink named him the temporary agenda but b-lister feels better:) I liked him anyways and got lost between the other fangirls I guess.

    love.

    #356564
    anita
    Participant

    Dear loveandkisseszaphod:

    You and the guy texted for two weeks, he then invited you to his art exhibition, and you were “sooo excited to meet him”. The moment you arrived to the exhibition, he “was touchy and huggy”, then asked you to hang out with him at his atelier which looked like a warehouse. Next, “he locked the door and started kissing and touching me in the dark”.

    For two hours you “talked, and made out and looked at some of his art”. You told him that you didn’t want a one-night stand with him, that you wanted to see him again. He told you that “he didn’t see it as a one-night stand, but it was technically impossible for us to be a couple because he lives in anther city.. and soon he will move back to another country”.

    “What is strange for me is I found that experience so sexy. I was initially scared of him, then confused with the directness but was very turned on by the experience… Why was I so confused?”

    –The answer may be in what you shared in your previous thread, that your mother is uptight and puritan. You wrote regarding an unconventional experience with a former boyfriend that she would have been “shocked and horrified if she knew the story”. Maybe the recent unconventional experience of being in that warehouse with a sex hungry man, an experience that would have shocked your puritan mother, turned you on.  Because part of you is puritan like your mother and another part of you want to you to  be very different from that puritan image.

    You wrote in your previous thread that your mother has been telling you that you are “cold, stern, emotionally unavailable like the nordic tv show”- makes me think that you are indeed more like your mother than you would like to be, and that it is an appealing thought (and a turn on) to be the opposite of that cold/stern/ nordic image.

    You wrote there regarding your mother: “generally I am angry at her for being so uptight causing me to have less joy in life, and shying away from attention. I don’t feel at ease in my own skin.. not fully comfortable with the way I look no matter what.. wasting away my young ages feeling uncomfortable with men and with sex“- – in that warehouse, you wanted to make up for that wasting away of your young ages, awakening into a sexual experience unlike any in the past.

    In your previous thread you wrote: “I feel like I am faking things.. I can’t say I’m depressed.  I feel ok for most of the time, but .. deep down, my ‘normal’ is being alone, left  out.. once I connect with someone, then he has a strong power on me”- faking things, okay, but not truly engaged, not really awakened to life.

    Back to the guy this thread is about: he told you from the very beginning that a relationship with him is impossible, so he was honest in that regard. He clearly wanted to have sex with you from the very beginning and that was his motivation in regard to you: sex, not a relationship.

    There is more in your story but I will stop here. You  are welcome to respond to any part of what I wrote that you would like to look into further and let me know what it may be.

    anita
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    #356570
    loveandkisseszaphod
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Thank you so much for taking the time to check and think about my previous thread as well. You may be right, though I hate to hear that I am uptight like my mother. I am trying to open up for new experiences romantically and sexually, it is an effort for me. This is why I get confused when I come up with something I am not familiar with.

    As for this guy, I knew that he wanted just sex and I wanted with him too. But I think I couldn’t handle it light-heartedly. When I feel connected and attracted to someone, I can’t take things lightly. Maybe I am not the type for casual things. Half of this drama is because of the lockdown mindset. The other half is maybe me building up expectations. I am thinking, if we would be able to see each other more often, would I still care this much about him?  Am I always exaggerating these things ? Or do we call it passion? How do people deal with ambiguity with hookups and sex? What did I do wrong, so that I even lost the casual hookup with him?

    Don’t want to take all the blame on me, because I can be hard with myself.  I don’t regret this story but I want to take a lesson then move on.

    #356574
    anita
    Participant

    Dear loveandkisseszaphod:

    You are very welcome. If you are like your mother in any way you don’t want to be- it’s not anything you chose, it’s a reaction to her. A lot of what a daughter become is an automatic reaction to who her mother is.

    I can’t take things lightly. Maybe I am not the type for casual things”- I guess you are not the type for casual things. Neither am I.

    “Most of this drama is because of the lockdown mindset”- when you wrote in your previous thread “once I connect with someone, then he has a strong power on me”- that was before the pandemic and the lockdown, and you did mention being obsessed and stalking your former’s boyfriend’s social media, and that was before the pandemic and the lockdown. So I wouldn’t say that most of the drama in regard to this man is because of the lockdown.

    “How do  people deal with the ambiguity with hookups and sex?”- if what you want is love that includes sex, not sex for the sake of sex, then better not put yourself in a hookup situation hoping that maybe the guy will “catch” feelings, fall in love with you, maybe if you were nice enough or passionate enough or sexual enough- that’s a recipe for misery!

    Instead, be selective and get involved with a guy who honestly tells you ahead of time that he wants what you want, a committed love relationship.

    You mentioned building up expectations: if a guy tells you that he wants a monogamous love relationship, then you expect that of him and get to know him based on that knowledge, instead of building up expectations from a man who didn’t express any interest other than hooking up.

    I hope you aren’t hard with yourself and that you do “take a lesson and move on”- and the lesson may very well be what I suggested above. What do you think?

    anita

     

    #356632
    loveandkisseszaphod
    Participant

    one last thought that bugs me..when I talk about relationships with my psychologist, I talk about being confused, lacking the female experience in flirting, panicking and asking for advice to everyone I can speak with, then feeling embarrassed about opening up, being worried that people would think I’m obsessive……he advises against consulting everyone providing all the details because it feeds my focus,  then always encourages me to be honest with what I feel to the guy and to express my feelings openly.

    in this case when I took his advice, I think it failed and pushed the guy away from me. (I mean look at now: even if I was ok with only sex, I can’t even have it anymore.he’s gone.)  You know what I mean?  So I feel like there is a knowledge of tactics I am unaware of 🙂 Also, with this guy, whenever I wrote him that I missed him, wanted to see him again, or I wrote that I needed a little attention from him that day, I felt I was being needy and weak.  I mean I am not talking about future plans together, only asking for some attention made me feel funny. I don’t think I did it too much, it’s not like I’ve been bugging him with messages everyday. But I thought he was rolling his eyes. Is this because of his approach and who he is?  Or is this because people sense a desperation or obsession about me? (maybe this is an overstatement) what’s your take?

     

    #356634
    anita
    Participant

    Dear loveandkisseszaphod:

    Regarding “asking for advice to everyone I can speak with”- it is unwise to ask for advice from anyone and everyone, and even more unwise- to accept advice without knowing anything about the person giving the advice.

    In the context of your thread here, if you want to learn who is the person giving you advice, click on the person’s screen name. If you click on mine you will get many thousands of relies to many hundreds of members over the course of five years. If you read some threads on issues that you are not struggling with, issues that are clear to you, and then read my replies, you can determine if you agree with my replies. If you do, you can give more weight to my replies to you on issues you are struggling with. On the other hand, if you click a member’s screen name and read his or her replies to other members (if such exist) and you notice that his replies indicate not paying attention to the member’s story, and otherwise you disagree with his replies on issues that are clear to you, then give that person’s replies to you less weight.

    “he (your psychologist) advises against consulting everyone providing all the details”- I agree. Be selective as to whom you are asking advice from and provide the details only to people who you learned may give you attentive and valuable advice.

    “.. then always encourages me to be honest with what I feel to the guy and to express my feelings openly”- be honest and express your feelings openly with guys you didn’t yet have sex with, before sex, before you are hooked on them, or obsessed with them. Any one guy or a number of guys may not care about your honestly or feelings, once you notice that, do not pursue a relationship with them. There is no benefit to being honest, expressing your feelings openly with a guy who doesn’t care for these things, a guy who wants to use your body and has no interest in your mind and heart. And worse, being honest and honest with a guy who will use your honesty against you.

    “In this case when I took his advice, I think it failed and pushed the guy away from me”- the guy you shared about, I don’t think he cared about your mind and heart. He told you right from the start that a relationship with you will be impossible for him and right from the start he pursued you sexually. I don’t think you pushed him away- he had no intents to be close with you, other than sexually at that time when your paths crossed.

    “with this guy, whenever I wrote him that I missed him.. that I needed a little attention from him that day, I felt I was being needy and weak.. asking for some attention made me feel funny”- you shared your tender feelings and need with the wrong guy. He wasn’t interested. Key is to share your tender feelings and vulnerability with a decent guy who is interested in your mind and heart. You will still feel needy and weak and funny, but at least you will have a good chance of the guy comforting and helping you.

    “I thought he was rolling his eyes. Is this because of his approach and who he is? Or is this because people sense a desperation or obsession about me.. what’s your take?”- in the case of this guy, he wasn’t interested in your mind and heart, his interest was sexual and limited to that time and place when you met, and a bit after. He told you himself, first time you met, that he wasn’t interested in a relationship.

    You being desperate and obsessed, that blinds you, or deafens you to parts of reality (for example, it is as if you didn’t hear him say that a relationship with you is impossible), and it causes you to not be selective as to men you are involved with or people you ask advice from.

    anita

    #356778
    loveandkisseszaphod
    Participant

    Yes I heard him when he said he wasn’t available for a relationship, and I knew his persistence the first night was a red flag. He wanted to see me again so at that time I hoped that we’d be hooking up for some time more and I’d be happy with him being around and the intimacy, and then we’d see how it went.  While he was away, he showed interest for a while as well, so I don’t think I acted like the overly attached type.Being apart was extended by lockdown, then time passed and he lost interest, I didn’t. Then I overdid it. Not exactly overdid it with my reactions to him, but to myself mostly. Letting myself daydreaming about him and feeling anxious, things like that. Not treating the story light heartedly as it deserved

    I get that even if we continued to date, it would still be a dead end. But also you never know, I wanted to give it a try because I don’t get attracted to men that often. I was unlucky with the timing, not being able to spend more than 2 nights together.

    Do I sound ridiculous?

    Maybe I’m overthinking about simple flings you might think. I am trying to understand myself in relationships and be more flexible with men and my emotions.

    Yesterday I stopped following all his social media and deleted him from my followers as well. I still check him out but it will fade away eventually. I have no other chance.

    #356790
    anita
    Participant

    Dear loveandkisseszaphod:

    “at that time I hoped that we’d be hooking up for some time more and I’d be happy with him being around and the intimacy, and then we’d see how it went”- reads like you were okay then, with a strictly sexual relationship/ hooking up with him, for a period of time, at the least.

    On the other hand, you wrote: “I  knew his persistence the first night was a red flag”, referring to his persistence to have sex with you.

    I would  like to understand you better, therefore I ask: if you were okay with hooking up with him, why was his sexual persistence a red flag?

    (I am thinking that you may be conflicted regarding what it is that you want in a relationship, or is it that you didn’t know what you wanted that first night but later on you figured it out?)

    anita

    #356864
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Loveandkisseszaphod:

    I re-read some of your previous writing from Jan this year. I think that what is happening is that you adjusted to your mother being cold to you and critical of you by withdrawing inward, isolating yourself within, putting a distance between you and .. you, like a tree shedding its leaves and its branches and all that’s left is the trunk: the color is gone, the branches reaching out are gone. All that remains is the minimal self.

    Fast forward you are in the warehouse with this guy and you are turned on by him, life is stirring within you- that’s a bit of the green color of the leaves, and the branches that aren’t there wanting to reach out.. but you are only a trunk, so you are quite helpless, wanting something but unbale to grab it and take it for yourself.

    This is how it feels to be isolated within yourself: “Mostly I feel fine, but sometimes I feel that, all I am doing is to try to trick myself and distract my attention from my solitude… I can’t say I’m depressed. I feel ok for most of the time, but I have a strong belief that deep down, my ‘normal’ is being alone, left out”-

    – a very profound description of your isolation within, an acute loneliness that you endured for so long that it feels normal, and you feel … okay.

    This normal is your adjustment as a child to your mother. But you can branch out: grow those branches and fill them with green leaves, and connect with another authentically- be and become you- no longer be confused. It is possible for you, a new normal.

    anita

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by anita.
    #357036
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dear loveandkisses…

    I can relate almost completely. I too have had few experiences with guys and the one guy I became intimate with turned out to be uninterested in a longer term relationship with me. It took me a very long time to realize this and I was guilty of obsession as well! For me, it was stalking his Spotify, heh.

    The funny thing was, until he rejected me romantically, I wasn’t too interested in stalking his online profiles.

    He was an “artist” too. Cute, funny, pretty socially awkward. Has a band, likes to read.
    And as I later found out, had been making the sexual rounds at school and had hurt a couple other women before me.

    I was honest with him from the beginning about having little experience, he being my first time, etc. I’m 28F and he is 29.

    Anyway, here is my two cents worth…

    He is very likely not worth your present mental anguish. In fact, I guarantee he is not.
    As you say, your relationship “percolated” for a while via text. In this period you may have built up a dream image of him and over-valued his interest in you/your interest in him. Something similar happened to me, and it helped to turn some of those red flags pinkish… if you get my meaning.

    The “teenagery” approach to intimacy with you is a good sign that he is a bit of a fuckboi. In my experience, it’s not just cute shyness on the part of the guy who treats you this way, it’s a sign that he views you less as a person and more as a sexual conquest. This is not to say that he is inherently “bad” (it’s probably largely biological). But what is bad for you (as was bad for me) is that you want more than a casual, sexual relationship with him.

    And in terms of being confused, turned on, and also let down by the sex. That’s normal. You were turned on because you did like him. But being confused and let down probably also means something inside your body was saying “I don’t like this.” I can remember being with my fuckboi and thinking, “Wow, he’s a bit aggressive. I think I like this?” and then the next morning, waking up and just feeling gross. Yeah, not great. Oftentimes our heads seem to try and override what our bodies are telling us about how we feel. This may explain your confusion.

    I fear that for many people casual, hookup culture is damaging since it suggests those of us who are more serious and want proper communication, respect, etc., from our partners come across as crazy, clingy, and desperate when things inevitably go awry. This isn’t to say hookup culture is all bad (for some people, it’s great fun!). But for those of us who aren’t about the casual sex thing, it can be really hurtful to get caught up in this cycle. This is why good communication and honesty are incredibly important.

    Your artsy-fuckboi is likely challenged communications-wise. Even if he seems sensitive and emotional (as my person did), I’m willing to be he is also pretty self-absorbed.

    It sounds like you did your very best to be up front with him from the beginning. You did nothing wrong.
    He is probably not thinking about you as much as you are thinking about him.
    Try to stop the damage from continuing (you could call it a poisonous influence) by stopping obsessing over him. I know this is hard in these quarantine/social distancing times but, do your very best.

    Don’t let yourself continue to be a victim.

    Love, LW

    #357059
    loveandkisseszaphod
    Participant

    Dear Lannawannabe,

    Thank you very much for your words, I could quite relate to your similar experience and it made me feel less awkward. Like I wasn’t that weird after all, but instead being exposed to some selfish behaviour from a man that isn’t that interested in me. Because the way you describe your guy is so similar to my thoughts about mine.

    While I was offline those last few days,  he visited me and it was a little challenging emotionally. When he asked if he could drop by, I was either going to cut him off then or let him visit so that I could experience and see it in real life instead of dreaming and idealising him. I thought about it for a while and chose the second one. Risky,  but thinking that it might lessen my obsessions + I could have some fun. He stayed with me for 2 days and and somethings were surprisingly unexpected and some other were difficult. Like him arguing that I was very demanding sexually and controlling-fastidious in life. I had heard that from my exboyfriend too. So now I have some thinking to do regardless of this artsy fuckboi

    He just left and I am not sure what to make of it yet. But I can see clearly now that, even if he wanted to have a relationship with me, I don’t see it that possible now.  We are different and we have conflicts in basic things.

    I don’t think so, but if I go all obsessed and panicky again, I’ll post a wall of text again for Anita’s tireless eyes 🙂

    Thank you again,

    Love

     

    #357061
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hello,

    After my break with the artsy fuckboi I continued to see him around school quite a bit. When we parted ways he suggested we would stay friends because we “still care about eachother.” Yet when I reached out to talk (I thought I wanted a second chance at him—in reality, he should be lucky to get a second chance with me!) he brushed me off and kept me waiting for three months! In the meantime of course I would see him flirting with other women, pretty much right in front of my face (the graduate students share an office space).

    Anyway, after a long painful process I came to realize that he just didn’t value me as much as I hoped he could. I had to take the difficult step to stop using that office (sounds easy enough but it was my workspace for several years, and a place to chat and decompress with fellow students) and move on.

    I was like you, however, thinking “Ok, maybe if I see him and talk to him I will finally understand what part of me is yelling at the other half to believe… he is not worth it!” But, there is something about this guy that made that very hard for me to get. I think it is likely because there was a lot of sexual tension between us, at least on my part, so it made it hard to look at the situation logically.

    All I can say is yes, you aren’t alone or even crazy for getting so messed up over this guy. It happens to the best of us. Oftentimes, I think it’s those of us who are deep thinkers and loving, nurturing people that get screwed over by these emotional vampire types. My fuckboi also suggested I was “too demanding” which really hurt and messed up my dating self-esteem for a long time. When I think back, the reason I may have come across as demanding was because I was suddenly experiencing an extremely insecure attachment. Over text, he had seemed romantic and sweet and also really really into me. When I realized this actually just meant he was crazy horny, I got nervous and doubled-down on my idea of dating this guy to keep things more in control for me emotionally. I really needed that emotional connection and trust to feel good and comfortable as I had in the beginning.

    I remember, he told me that sometimes he’d have to stop texting me for a bit because he was jerking off thinking about me… like this was flattering!! Gross!

    In the end it comes down to a basic incompatibility. I think we are sold on the idea of really intense and quickly escalating romances as being so so good when in the end, they fizzle out as quickly as they start. When I think back to the ways my closest, most intimate and long-lasting friendships got started, they always grew to that level over time. Intimacy right away (in this case, sexual) doesn’t necessarily mean a relationship will last. I think the sexually immature fuckbois work with this agenda in mind…

     

    LW

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