Home→Forums→Relationships→Depressed due to guilt and fear
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April 5, 2016 at 9:17 pm #100987AnonymousGuest
Dear Ravi:
I understand that the pain returns periodically. I understand that your love for her, the longing for her is intense and has been deep and intense for a long time. I think of your love for her as part of who you are. An undeniable part of you. I also think there is nothing you can do about it, so thinking and thinking is obsessing simply because there is nothing to do.
So studying is what you believe is the right thing for you to do. I don’t think you should study so to “serve your parents” but to make an independent life for yourself.
I know who you wish to be in that independent life with you and I wish the same for you. And I know that wishing and thinking is not going to make it happen. So, study and keep yourself calm and resolute, strong.
Good night (for me) and please, do take care of yourself.
anita
April 5, 2016 at 9:32 pm #100989ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI know Anita. At least I know that my efforts to change myself, make up for my behaviour and do what’s right now are sincere… and I can see some effects of that in my life at least. What’s not in my power to change, I can’t do anything but leave it up to karma. It doesn’t make the pain less intense. But I do know that every strong relation has to endure such tough phases and if our bond truly is genuine, and I truly do love her, then we cannot be separated permanently. At least I do feel it in my heart, delusion or not.
April 6, 2016 at 7:17 am #101009AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
It seems to me that these very days you are building confidence in your own self, you are becoming a person that you, Ravi, respect. You are earning your own respect. This is priceless. I mean, literally, priceless.
And since nothing is permanent, no one can disprove an assertion you can make that indeed you and her cannot be separated permanently. So it is not a delusion to state that.
Your attitude of letting go of what you have no power over (and focusing on what you do have power over) is so very important to your well being, necessary, really.
anita
April 6, 2016 at 8:32 pm #101132ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI’m uncomfortably reminded of the invisible pink unicorn logic, when it comes to something being believed valid simply because it can’t be disproved. But yes, I do feel that based on my own trust in the bond we shared/share. After all I don’t feel true love and care (of any kind) can be erased so easily… it can endure much more than this. Today it’s one month since we had that argument. I hope I can write something nice sincere and send it to her, conveying honestly how much she means to me. At least that’s something in my hand to an extent.
Yes I’m trying my best for that – to become someone I myself can respect. That’s one thing I surely still don’t feel as I look at myself in the mirror. I still can see only my faults, shortcomings and bad deeds. No wonder there’s anger and frustration welling up somewhere inside… simply because I am me. I doubt I’d have felt so insecure and jealous had it not been for that. Qualifying this exam and striving for freedom is the first step in overcoming this.
April 6, 2016 at 8:54 pm #101136AnonymousGuestWhat I wrote in the last post to you: “And since nothing is permanent, no one can disprove an assertion you can make that indeed you and her cannot be separated permanently.” was not thought out. I didn’t think it out. I don’t believe that if something cannot be disproved it may exist. I misspoke.
Today is the one month anniversary of that argument. Not a pleasant anniversary, is it… As I wrote to you before, in other words, maybe, I don’t want to encourage you to think about her and exhaust yourself emotionally with such thinking and ruminating and obsessing. Not that I have power over you on these matters, but I don’t want on my end to encourage such.
Your last sentence, I like that. “Qualifying this exam and striving for freedom”- yes! This is doable. This is worthy of your thinking and emotional investment because this is something you can do something about: qualify, study, eventually get a job, make some money, be an independent man. Independent, self sufficient, and free.
anita
April 6, 2016 at 9:17 pm #101138ravi_zimmerfanParticipantYup I understood that. I didn’t mean I’ll send something as an anniversary or something, but it just feels bad thinking it’s been just a month when it feels like years ago. I’m not obsessing over it or exhausting myself emotionally, but naturally when it’s something so vital to my heart, I cannot just forget it. I do push it back when studying, and make sure that my studies are not affected. But after all, studies aren’t the beginning and end of life. I’m sure career, money and all will happen. But without her, without what my heart wishes, it’s merely superficial. I know I’m merely going in circles so will refrain from mentioning it.
April 6, 2016 at 9:31 pm #101140AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
Things that are not possible or at all likely to take place in the present, may be possible in the future, when you are in a different place mentally and professionally. At this point it is not realistic so focus on what is realistic. One step at a time. Becoming the strong man you are becoming, mentally is a huge step, or series of steps and you are doing that. Even your last sentence: “I know I’m merely going in circles so will refrain from mentioning it.” shows you maturing.
I am sincerely excited. I can “see” you maturing and getting stronger and more confident in these very posts.
Your growing patience, endurance… these are the very things that will make things possible for you in the future.
Good night for me and keep at it. This is the way; you are doing what needs to be done!
anita
April 8, 2016 at 3:09 am #101256ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI hope so, Anita. Am hoping to change myself and do these exams well… and proving myself worthy. The rest, I can only pray. Thanks a lot again for your constant support and encouragement. Truly means a lot to me.
April 8, 2016 at 6:38 am #101262AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
You are welcome. I like your two line post, a focused, realistic, reasonable Ravi!
anita
April 13, 2016 at 7:30 pm #101768ravi_zimmerfanParticipantHi Anita. My first two exams this week went fairly well, the second one better than I expected. Though I still have a long way to go regarding my syllabus. Also, it’s confirmed that this year is my final chance to qualify the main exam on May 17, as they’re changing eligibility rules next year. It’s now or never. I’m doing my best to focus on preparing for it.
I had messaged Jerry regarding my efforts to change myself a couple of days back, and she sent me a message via her sister saying she doesn’t want to continue our bond anymore because it’s not brotherly now. The convo went something like this (she was only messaging via her sister telling me “she asked me to tell you that…)–
Me – If only a brotherly bond is acceptable to you, it’s totally fine by me. Please try to understand I never meant anything wrong. My feelings aren’t under my control after all. Love of any kind is love. I always respect and care for you.
She – It’s easier said than done. Those feelings can come back anytime. You cannot claim to truly love me because you know nothing about me other than whatever little I told you. Your love is nothing but infatuation just like you were smitten with our favourite actress in the early days. You may think it’s easy to keep changing relationships like this, but I don’t.
Me – I don’t feel any two people in the world know 100% about each other. I do know enough about you to be sure that my love is not a whim. But that’s not relevant. Please try to understand. Did you really not miss our sweet talks and old days this month we’ve not talked?
She – I don’t want to listen to all this all over again. I only wanted to convey the message that I don’t want to continue the bond. Stop this lecturing.
Me – I won’t lecture. But I’m only requesting you not to break this beautiful bond we’ve had for three years, just due to this. If you only can accept a bro-sis bond, I’m ready. Dealing with my feelings is my responsibility. We both know how precious our bond is for us. Please think over it.After this, I have a feeling she herself chatted a little with me about my studies. I may be wrong, but the writing style seemed more like hers than her sister’s. I feel I tried my best to be gentle and kind, though I felt bad that my feelings are being considered like some horrible and inhuman sin and she’s acting as though we had nothing but very formal talks these three years. I know it’s just immaturity on her part and I’ve even given my assurance to somehow overcome my feelings and keep our bond the way she wants.
I guess the fight we had isn’t relevant anymore, so I’m putting it back though I’ll of course keep up my progress to change myself. But honestly, did I commit such a terrible sin by loving her? Something so bad to break our bond of three years in this manner? 🙁 I did my best to try to convince her not to do it. If there’s anything more I can do, I am willing to do that too. I don’t know what else I can do. I just pray she sees the truth and tries to understand my situation.
April 13, 2016 at 8:00 pm #101770AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
I was thinking about you, was going to send you a message asking how you are doing.
Congratulations for the two tests. You studied hard and you do have the intellectual capability to do well on the May 17 test.
This conversation happened only two days ago, well I will comment about it since it is a recent happening. Like I wrote to you last (before I stopped writing about her), it was not your abusive anger expressions that caused her to back off from you. It was your boyfriend/girlfriend kind feelings that caused her to back off from you.
All the time we talked about your anger, it was not the issue for her all along. It is still mind boggling to me that you and I have been directing the light on your anger when it was not the issue for her!
In your part of the conversation above, you said all the right things, your performance in that conversation was well done.
I don’t know why Jerry treats your loving feelings for her as if it was a crime. Now that it is more clear to me what is that bothers her so much, now I know that you are NOT responsible for the (online) breakup with Jerry. Working on your anger is very important still, of course, but it was not what caused the breakup. Is that a relief for you, to realize now that it was not your doing after all? That you did not cause the breakup?
I hope so. I hope it is a relief for you. It was not your angry behaviors for which you are responsible that caused the breakup. It was her choice regarding your loving feelings for her, and for your feelings you are not responsible.
And you are correct: you loving her is not a crime, for crying out loud!
Now, no more discussions about her on my part unless there are more conversations and I hope there will not be, at least not before the big testing. Please focus on what is useful for you to focus on.
anita
April 13, 2016 at 8:35 pm #101775ravi_zimmerfanParticipantThat’s so sweet. 🙂 Thanks Anita. I do hope I can get the required marks in that exam.
It is at least a partial relief for me knowing that I’m not wholly responsible for this situation. I do feel guilty for my anger and I’m doing my best to overcome that, but it’s quite obvious that it’s not what she’s been concerned about. I don’t understand why is loving a girl as anything other than a sister concerned such a terrible sin. A while back I asked another friend what she’ll do if someone she considers a brother starts loving her romantically… she said this same thing, that she’ll give him a sound telling off and break ties. I really don’t get this kind of thinking. Did our bond of 3 years mean nothing, to be ready to break it in three seconds like this?
I do hope she eventually sees the truth and decides to patch up. Of course I’ll always love and respect her in my heart, and will be there for her if she ever needs me. But I don’t know what else I can do when she’s taking wrongly everything I’m trying to explain. I’ll just leave this up to the higher powers and focus on my exams, like you said.
April 13, 2016 at 8:39 pm #101777AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
You are welcome.
Good thinking on your part! Until your next post, any time you need to, take good care of yourself!
anita
April 25, 2016 at 10:08 am #102693ravi_zimmerfanParticipantHi Anita. A week ago, I talked to Jerry’s sister with whom I normally was on very good terms with. I did it despite you and my friends advising not to do anything… once again I let my feelings overrule my judgement. Here’s some highlights of what she had to say –
“Jerry and I did not expect this from you, did not expect you to transform from a humble and caring brother to this. In fact she felt you truly cared for as your sister.”
“Yes, you did bad. It’s a horrible thing to call someone your sister and then trying to change relations. No good person would ever dream of doing this. It’s wrong, unethical and you stabbed her in the back. You betrayed her trust.”
“I think all the girls who call you their brother need to be wary, because anytime you can change your feelings and start lusting after them. Our favourite actress whom you now call your elder sister, we noticed your comments about her in the early days and feel you don’t love her but just have these lustful feelings and then tried to change relations and call her a sister, and now you’re lusting after Jerry in the same way.”
“To love someone, you need to know them very well. Jerry never told you anything personal that can justify you saying that you love her. She always told you very limited things and we made it clear that we can only be your Internet friends, no more. We were wrong to think relations can be made online; I now know the Internet is a dangerous place due to people like you who wear masks, trick innocent people and then stab them in the back. Our own brother is the best; he’ll never lust after her unlike you.”
“We’re not angry at you. We don’t hate you. Hating is different from just not wanting to have anything to do with you anymore. We’re doing what we feel is right. You have many girls who love you as their brother; hope you have a great life with them and please don’t stab them in the back the way you betrayed Jerry.”Needless to say, her words pierced me badly and I’m unable to get them out of my head. Though I managed to do my third exam fairly well yesterday, but these words are on a loop in my head day and night. I did not respond angrily to her, I did my best to keep quiet and wish her well only. I don’t mind it because I feel I deserve this pain for misbehaving with my Jerry and taking her for granted. But still, after three years of a loving bond I cannot believe they are calling me a traitor and pervert now (she did not actually use the word lust, but it was easy enough to make out what she was hinting at). The comments about our favourite actress she’s referring to, so many people said something like that and they never minded me saying that before. Now suddenly, they’re looking at everything I ever did in this manner. Is even commenting about someone having a charming smile/eyes, a lustful thing??
She first says I cared for each other as brother and sister, and then says she never shared anything personal (an outright lie) which means we shared no bond at all… so why is it a sin if I loved her when apparently she only called me brother as a formality? Does loving her romantically mean I stopped caring for her, or lusted for her? It means I turned from a “humble and caring brother” into an evil internet monster who traps innocent girls online? All the girls I call my sisters… apparently I imagine them naked and fantasize about molesting them?? Nobody told them that a true bond can never be replaced by another? Everything I ever did to make her see that she’s special for me, means nothing and I just am a pervert who’s been after her?
I’m also delighted to see that not one person who’s claimed to care for me has come forward to help me in my time of need. A few people asked, felt bad hearing about my condition, uttered a sweet “hope all gets well” and went back to their usual delightful lives. Only 2-3 people are kind enough to let me vent out my pain and sorrow to them, and they too either send smileys or a “Hmmm” in reply and then forget about it. Only one person tried to ask her not to break relations with me. I’ve seen her going around posting online and about our show/actress without any regrets, everything normal… I guess soon she’ll forget there’s someone who truly does care for her, or will remember me only as a traitor and pervert. Enjoying life with her dear “own” brother, not caring that someone’s been crying locked up alone in a dark room from nearly 2 months thinking of her, feeling the vacuum her absence has left crushing his heart and soul, wishing for nothing but to breathe his last as soon as possible, letting her be in his last thoughts.
I’m sorry for this getting so long and depressing, but I have nowhere else to say anything. I’m in fact grateful for my exams now, because at least they give me something to do and distract myself. I dread the day my exams end and I’ll be jobless… this depression will surely consume me and wreck me. Its my birthday in two weeks and I know I’ll sit like a madman at 12:00 AM thinking she’ll send her sweet “it’s finally the day a very special person was born!” message as usual… and my phone will sit silent as a grave and some random relative will message me as a formality, or all those fair weather friends who suddenly will remember that I still exist (unfortunately). I’m thinking of cutting contact with everyone… after all, I’m an internet monster and a disease in the society.
April 25, 2016 at 2:05 pm #102726AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
You write so very well.
As to the content: I thought about this betrayal thing a week or so ago, trying to figure out its origin. I am thinking it has to be a … value of sort Jerry (and her sister) was taught. Maybe it is even a cultural teaching: that the only noble love between a man and a woman is the brotherly kind. And only when married, there can be another kind. Nothing in between. Girls are taught (are they not?) that any sexual talk or behavior before marriage is wrong, and makes the girl a very bad girl, one to be condemned and rejected by her family.
This explains to me why Jerry was so careful about appearing sisterly to you. I am sure she shared personal things with you and very likely felt what she felt for you, but no way was she going to admit to this for fear of being a bad girl and rejected by her family, a terrible and unbearable consequence for her.
Ravi, your past angry expressions at Jerry have nothing to do with the situation, as you can see yourself. It is ALL about the change of status of your feelings for her. It is too late for you to ..re-establish the old brotherly status and it is impossible for you to change the teaching I referred to, teaching ingrained in Jerry’s brain.
There is nothing you can do about such a teaching except if you become acceptable for her family as a husband! Too late to be a brother again, only possibility is be her husband. No in-between possibility. Don’t you think?
anita
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