Home→Forums→Relationships→Dont know what to think of this relationship.. please would love opnions
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June 15, 2016 at 8:41 am #107365KareneParticipant
Ive wrote on here quite a few times now. Unfortunately havent replied yet. I tend to that more on another forum, but I like to read mainly on this one as there is such good information I can take in.
Anyway, I have this situation with this guy I like. Its a bit of an unhealthy relationship. Its just a friendship, but its a bit odd. I met him last year as we worked together. We are the same age (early 30s), both have mental illnesses and both live with our parents. For me to have someone with those similarities I suddenly felt like I was not the only one. The thing is my background I have wrote in other posts but I have body dysmorphia and social phobia.
I have been emotionally abused and raped when I was 24 by a guy I liked and also raped by a boyfriend at age 14. Ive never really had relationships with males much at all. In fact I have avoided them. So when this guy started to befriend me when I first started working at work – I took it as though he liked me. And there was alot to suggest that he ‘liked’ me liked me. But once I found that out I went all cray in my own mind and started to care for myself – lost alot of weight, got healthy and lean and started to really dress better and stuff. But then he would just not be as friendly anymore and so I started to read up on communication skills and also how to talk to men even. But it seemed like it was pointless. He has schizophrenia and his mind would be elsewhere. Anyway, it wasnt until the end of the year that he actually invited me to out for new years. I was over the moon, thought it was a date and got dressed up a little – not too much as knew he would be wearing low key stuff. Anyway, it ended up with us later watching films in his garage and sitting on different couches and then he went to bed and I slept on the couch. So I thought, well he knew about my history and he has his own personal things – so I didnt think about rejection. Then later months later, it was not nice in thinking that I was now in his world and so thought we would hang out more – but I would usually get ignored – or I would anticipate him asking me and nothing happen- I went to extremes with my BDD and tried to bleach my hair and look certain ways to try and get his attention to no avail. He would be friendly and then he wouldnt. And I know most of it was to do with his condition and not to mention now that I know he was also into drugs too from the wrong crowd. Anyway the same thing happened a couple of times again. I slept on the couch and stuff- we watched movies.
But that was the start of this year. Since then, he got fired for work as they couldnt afford him anymore. I was distraught because I thought that I wouldnt see him again after that. He made me laugh and gave me feelings that would make me melt. But anyway, fast forward to now – months ago when he got fired I straight away went onto facebook and messaged him saying how sorry I was. So he friended me. I knew his page because he used to follow me on there. He has weird stuff on facebook and has photos of models he likes and female singers- obessed with their beauty- in a psychotic way. And that used to really get to me especially to my bdd. As there was a few times where from things he had said I realised that he was not attracted to me- or didnt think of me as attractive and that really hurt.But anyway, since all that- since a few weeks ago we started talking on facebook and he invites me over- and we watch films and stuff and then I sleep on his couch- in fact this week it happened about 3 times in a week. Not to mention posting to each other. We laugh at the same things and stuff – I really enjoy it, yet we are so different too. He is all into heavy metal and horror films the culture that goes with that- I dont mind heavy metal and horror films but Im more into the environment, Im vegan and into health- he smokes and takes drugs every now and then. The thing is this week I got all these emotions – sitting with him on the couch together – sharing a rug and watching a film- it felt romantic in a way- yet I know he doesnt like me because of the way I look and that really hurts. It hurts because I dont like the way I look- I want to look feminine and feel more feminine and pretty and all that. yet he is almost hypnotised to unrealistic expectations. And he is only hanging out with me because he gets lonely and knows I get lonely. I know that being with him is not in my best interests with my values – but he can be so kind and caring and that melts me so much. But I dont know what to do. I started to just let go of the idea with him and letting it just be – but the minute I did that was when he contacted me. Which was weird.
I dont know what to do- in this situation my value as a woman and my womanly needs feels confused as he can be very sweet yet act only as a friend- and I know that he cannot give me needs I want from him, especially if he doesnt like me like that. I just get really confused because we used to flirt at work and now when Im at his place- its like he just has no boundaries almost with me- he will just sleep, and look terrible and trust me in his place. I just think that if he liked me, he would make an effort and be self conscious idk. I dont know how to be with him as I dont know- or dont want to ask because I would get upset and already know the answer I guess.
I like his company but I also am in many ways cheating myself as I feel so ugly and undesired and confused because of it. Its like I hang onto this dream where he suddenly realises he has fallen for me and likes how I look and stuff. I need to let go, but its just I really have developed feelings for him. And I know that men are different with feelings – its more visual and stuff. So it just hurts.
How do I maintain my values with him, as a female and how do I be a friend to him when Ive fallen for him?
June 15, 2016 at 8:54 am #107366KareneParticipantI dont know how to edit posts on here – but I wanted to also mention how I feel so emotionally attatched to things he does every now and then. For instance, because this past week we have been posting each other very often, to all of a sudden have him not be online – obviously just over a friend’s house or what ever – it just makes my stomach go all funny. And when I see that he has friended another woman that I know isnt what I think it is – just a friend – yet I get all jealous. Its like these feelings I used to get from my trauma with an abusive guy many years ago. I was living with that guy, sleeping with him in the same bed- yet he refused to be in a relationship with me- even though he was – I would get very jealous as he would let me know I wasnt good enough and go out with other women. That was when I was in my early 20s. But I guess its those same feelings I feel. Im not in a relationship with this guy. And people need space. I like my space. I just have to be mindful.
June 15, 2016 at 9:08 am #107368AnonymousGuestDear Karene:
Welcome back. I remember some of our past correspondence, what you shared in previous threads. As I read this one, the following point occurred to me:
If one of those women on his Facebook page, the blond, gorgeous, movie star looking women visited him in his garage, like you did, she too would be sleeping on the sofa. If one of those women was in your place, he would look like (his physical appearance) and behave just like he did with you.
All this time you imagined it was YOU but it is him. He may very well be unable to perform sexually, for one thing. He may very well not want to try, to bother with it.
This behavior of his, when you slept over his place, this is all you can expect from him- no matter how you look. It doesn’t matter how you look, this is not the cause of him not initiating physical intimacy with him.
anita
June 15, 2016 at 4:42 pm #107398InkyParticipantHi Karene,
They call people like the two of you: Friends!
TBH, as I had written before, he is incapable of being in a (True) relationship ~ with anyone!
In fact, congratulate yourself on sleeping on his couch alone watching movies while he “grunges” about!
This is as good as it gets!!
Have fantasies about him, but realize that they are just that: fantasies. Have fun crushing on him, but in real life move on and date other guys. He will call and you can say yes to platonic movies ~ but only if there’s nothing else going on!
It’s time for HIM to be your back up plan!
Best,
Inky
June 19, 2016 at 4:55 am #107638KareneParticipantThankyou guys for taking the time to read and respond to my post.
I cant say Im feeling much better. But your posts did help a bit, I jsut get upset when thinking of myself as a friend sometimes and its because of my past abuse.
Decided to indulge in a bit of depression over the weekend, staying in bed and journaling/sleeping etc.
I just feel so bad about myself. On friday I went to this get together with some older people from work and they had invited him over too. He had said that week that he would talk soon and probably hang out on the weekend. I never hold him to his word, but I held on to at least a conversation about it during this get together. He just ended up being very reserved – I could tell he was in his own mind and not well and he was quite unapproachable. The only thing he had said to me was that he didnt like my food my cooking and didnt like my cookie, putting it aside on the plate. And then later said bye and just left as I was actually leaving the same time and tryingto walk faster to catch up to him. I was like – well that was not nice, not something that someone I would call a friend would act like, but then I have to take in consideration of his illness. But I felt so devalued, and come to realise that is how I feel when I am around him anyway. Well that, and confused. Does he not get why a woman in her early 30s would hang out with him in the nighttime. That with a joking online and ask me over at 10:30 in the night and I actually come around? He thinks its because we are both lonely and have a bit of company and I hate that, because I want to value my time and who I hang out with- not just because I am lonely. I value having a laugh with him, its rare having the same sense of humor and other things in common and I am a magnet to feelings for him when he can be very caring and make me feel stuff.
But it hurts too.The fact that I hold in all this negative signals that Im not good enough, and be mindful of that- and just treat this person like a friend or cousin, but then for him to not even acknowledge to me, to not even let me know that his friend was down from town for the weekend and that I dont need to hold onto the thought/plan that we might get together then. To still not even contact me. Its just very insincere. I mean, I know it comes with the illness. Its just I dont know howto take this relationship, its not exactly a friend- it more of something less at this point- its not like he even knows me – or wants to idk. It is just one sided really. It is a toxic relationship- and I just guess I know that it has big consequences for my mindset when I do hang out- some good- but mostly confusing and bad for my self esteem and identity and values.Why I have to feel so ugly and un-nattractive and not respected as a woman. I dont think I am really ugly at all, but the people around me at work and him just their ways make me feel otherwise. I feel devalued. And I know that I need to do work within myself to overcome these feelings – but this person is like an addiction and toxic to me.
Ive decided to stay away from him. Actually let him down when he asks. I need to put myself first but its so hard to not say yes. I end up questioning myself, what is so wrong with me that he sees me not one inch attractive at all? I mean, doesnt he get it. Doesnt he understand. But it all comes back to me anyway and who I decide to hang out with doesnt it.
I want to keep this relationship, but distance myself from now on. I want to try to like myself as a woman, feel attractive again and stuff. But everytime I try to self care right now, I come to think that I ugly and it doesnt matter. That I am never going to be attractive to people, to him, to people at work, to people I meet in the shop I work all the time.. I dont know how to override this un-nattractive feeling- other than to stay away and stay reserved with my boundaries around the people that I feel devalue me in my values in that.
I plan on self love and doing all the things that make me happy and have made me happy, juicing and moving my body and making up a dream board .. all those things. But again, its just constantly on my mind that Im not valued, acknowledged as a female and that there must be something very un-attractive about me- and I take that on, in my mind and put that onto my identity- that how he must see me and how others must see me that I am around weekly- that they too see me the same way.
I guess its part of the attraction- to want to show that person your value as a woman, as someone attractive. To show my authenticity and my boundaries and self care and stuff. I just wonder that the moment I find my self worth and practice my boundaries and self care- that what will become of this relationship. I dont want to give it up, I just want it to be there I guess, to be able to say I am accepted and if I want a laugh and low key person to hang out where I dont have to care about myself – then he is there I guess.
I just dont know what to do. Because if he is a friend, I should stand up for myself and say hey, you kind of ignored me and that hurt a bit.. but intuitively I feel like Im not valued in this relationship or what ever it is, and that its wrong to say that- I think because of more of how I think and feel about myself.
June 19, 2016 at 5:09 am #107640KareneParticipantI guess, what I hate is that before 2 weeks ago ( before I had constant sleep overs at his place) I was just getting into the mindset of letting go and not feeling like I wanted to control anyone and how they felt about me. I was starting to feel okay with myself a little and my own company and then its funny that the minute I let go, I started getting invites by him out of nowhere. And then I just perked up and got in a funny laughable mood and continued to go over there, I enjoyed it. Yet..
June 19, 2016 at 6:53 am #107646AnonymousGuestDear Karene:
I understand you are living with your parents. Your mother is handicapped and has been so your whole life. She used to rush you when you were a child, placing food on your plate quickly, not letting you choose the food you want to eat.
You thought you are slow because your mother rushed you. But you were not slow; she was too fast, jittery, distressed and disturbed. You think you are unattractive because this man does not try to get physical with you; but he is not able to be sexual, he is unwell.
You are making the wrong conclusions about who you are because you are basing your understanding on the behavior of people who are unhealthy, unwell.
I hope that soon enough you will get to know a person that is well enough to see you for who you are. I wish you could attend psychotherapy with a competent therapist who will help you see yourself in new ways, ways true to reality.
You are not slow: your mother was too fast. You are not unattractive: the man is not a sexual man.
anita
June 19, 2016 at 7:08 am #107647KareneParticipantThank you.
It all comes back to our upbringing then doesn’t it? It makes alot of sense. Myself and mum has been a co-denpendence for awhile, only recently I cut that- and I guess I try it with this guy.But he has all this sexist stuff on his facebook page. Even his profile photo is photoshopped with a blonde girl by his side that he doesnt even know. Its nothing to do with me, but it would be nice to be appreciated in a way that lets me know that I am valued as a female I guess. But even that he probably cannot do.
But I need to stay away from him and get some really good self worth in me to be able to make better choices in my life. I do have a therapist, she is good but I always feel like I am the one compensating or people pleasing out of fear that she cannot help me, as that has happened quite a few times.
June 19, 2016 at 7:46 am #107650AnonymousGuestDear Karene:
How long did you see that therapist? What do you mean by her being good: how has she helped you so far???
anita
June 19, 2016 at 8:31 am #107655KareneParticipantThankyou for caring. Ive seen her for over 10 years now. When I was in my early 20s I had issues with bed wetting and agoraphobia, yet after a few sessions with her, I found out the cause was sexual abuse at 14. I didnt even recognise that until I saw her and everything started to change after that, I didnt wet the bed anymore and I felt supported a little to be able to venture out more. Ive come a very long way from those days, but I would say that I use her as a reflection of what is in my mind of how to help myself rather than someone who can help me. I use her as someone to listen to me, rather than give advice most of the time. Though she can give me advice, she is more of a open therapist than a clinical one. Recently she asked me to start yoga, which I have thought about, but not acted on.
She has told me that I have never gotten any good feedback within my life really, not within my family either. That I have had shame on me as a teenager and that I have had to basically rely on myself for feedback and comfort and all of that. So I can be very sensitive to other people’s communication with me, as because I have been unsocial for all of my 20s- except for the time I flew over to meet a guy from online who raped and emotionally abused me and I stayed with for 4 months and more.(that was 9 years ago) I havent really had any other relationships to go on. So my social identity is very scarce – and so Im sensitive to how I feel others see me. I have my values and I basically have 2 social events in my life to go on- my highschool days- when I was happy for most of them and my abusive days. Im lucky that I am where I am right now, I have people around me for the first time and the thing is with this guy, my relationship with men has never been any good- since I was a young child -its basically been limited in exposure to boys. I always thought that they fancied me if they were nice to me for some reason. Ive never really hung out with boys unless I was a girlfriend in highschool days or in an abusive relationship.
So even though he may not know, but he is the only guy that I have hung out with and gotten close to in a very long time of avoiding men. And I am so sensitive to it.June 19, 2016 at 9:13 am #107671AnonymousGuestDear Karene:
What your therapist said makes sense, that growing up you didn’t get feedback, what a child desperately needs: to be seen and shown. A child needs a mirror, figuratively, and an accurate mirror; to be told: you look sad, for example. So then the child says: “oh, this is “sad”
You grew up without a mirror so you never saw yourself, kind of growing in the dark. So yes, I see. So you are looking for that mirror in people. Problem is to find an accurate mirror. The mirror you are looking at when you interact with that guy is inaccurate. He does not display sexual attraction to you and you conclude you are sexually unattractive. Problem is: he displays no sexual attraction toward you because he is almost asexual because of his mental illness, not because of your lack of attraction. (Regarding the fact that he has photos of attractive women on his FB: like I wrote to you before: if they were in his room, they too, just like you, would be sleeping on the couch. He thinks they look attractive but he can’t actualize this attraction, is my understanding).
So in therapy you need an accurate mirror, like the one where you figured out the reason for your bed wetting and then, the bed wetting stopped.
You are sensitive to people’s behavior toward you because you still need that mirror that wasn’t available to you in your formative years. Please try to find an accurate mirror. The more accurate mirroring you get, the healthier you will be. If this makes sense to you, talk about it with your therapist, will you?
anitaJune 21, 2016 at 7:50 am #107836KareneParticipantYes, thankyou for opening up my mind with your insights. I will talk to about this with my therapist in detail next time I see her.
But I jsut wanted to mention that I havent talked to this guy since last Friday now. And it did get make me go through this big emotional hump. He said he would talk to me later, he said we would hang out on the weekend, and when we saw each other at this get together with older people he basically ignored me, and insulted my cooking and walked off from me to go home without ever acknowledging further contact for the weekend or what ever. He didnt tell me that he had other plans etc. So I get very upset with that- it feels intentional, it feels hurtful to not be acknowledged, it hurt because I thought that I was in this ‘friendship’ and my expectations of that meant that I would at least have respect and acknowledgement. But I guess I realise now what I already knew, and that is that he just cannot do that. He has a serious mental illness of schizophrenia that actually causes him to severely glorify himself and be in his own world. He has said he thinks the sun comes up for him and that his facebook page is better than everyone else’s etc. Its very magnet to meet someone who can be so comfortable with themselves and have such unusually high self esteem like that. I come to realise that for his own reasons that have probably nothing to do with me, he has decided to not contact me at all, but at the same time compliments & likes some of my facebook posts. Its quite confusing trying to even have a friendship with someone like that. But Im glad of my distance these last few days.
I know I am writing alot, I just feel it flowing. Ive been basically indulging in being depressed and bed ridden for 4-5 days. I know I have depression and I have body dysmorphia and an identity crisis. I like to indulge and move into my ill feelings rather than bottle them up like I used to.
Part of the depression has been about constantly remembering things that have recently happened that have made me feel bad about myself, that have insulted or unacknowledged me, have made me see myself in a negative light for how I feel others see me. I have been basically a social hermit for 15 years. I havent been in society around people much at all until now. And so what people do around me, how they act and see me- reflects how I see myself- and its made me want to go crawling back to loneliness again rather than be seen again.
For instance on friday whilst I was sitting at this table and I was dealing with ‘him’ insulting my food and not valuing me, one of the ladies was talking about some woman they knew and to describe her they mentioned that she had a very pretty face…(and this lady has nearly everytime Ive seen her, talks about how gorgeous certain women are that she has seen as though I am nothing to even be considered like that) , and that hit my inner bruises.. because Ive been doing alot of self care and had nothing nice said to me- not even my mother had said anything to me – loosing 30kg over 10 months last year and then wearing things I hadnt worn since I was a child like singlets as I felt they were too revealing for me most of my life.I mean only 8 years ago I was in an emotionally abusive relationship with a man that didnt even acknowledge we were in a relationship because I wasnt good enough-yet we were living and sleeping in the same bed- I was told things in that bed about how I wasnt this and that and it really made me go into a ptsd after it was all over.
And then I go and remember this new guy now – on a day, last year when I was looking my best- and felt happy within myself -actually loving myself for once and he comes up to me for some reason and starts telling me to think of the most handsome person you can think of.. relating to how he thinks his ex (which I dont even think actually happened) was- that she was so pretty but not nice to him (he ended up being detained in a mental hospital with psychosis) that no-one compares- and he was saying this to my face and he knew I liked him. It hurt. Then I remember at work a lady I work with – coming out to help this woman with her purchases and she says ‘well we are not here for our looks’.. All these things reflect to me, especially this guy- for over 6 months when he worked were I work I tried to make myself love myself outside. I pushed myself outside of my boundaries in self care and started to really like myself, but he just was up and down and would eventually ignore me often like I wasnt important.
I have this belief in me that – say on friday when one of these older ladies husbands was showing me his antique collection- first time Ive met this man- I guess because I have avoided men for some time that I expect some sort of acknowledgement that I am a young female perhaps. I am never acknowledge as a young beautiful woman. And I just don’t get that at all. All these people that I have been around shape my reality of myself and Im not liking it. I want to go live in a cave. Even this new old guy mentioned the other day as we were talking about ocd, that his sister is a very pretty lady.. like why do people feel the need to always tell me how pretty other people are? Dont they realise that when they do that, that it actually is saying that you are not.. its saying that your not that. Idk.
It just seems that my values- what is important to me is to feel valued as a woman and to feel beautiful and pretty and be around people that can help me feel that way about myself. But instead Im just getting negative messages. Like last week, sitting on the couch with this guy at his place, sharing a blanket and thinking it is a bit romantic.. and he jumps up and says ‘OOh that woman is soo pretty..’ and Im sitting there thinking.. here we go again- my fears and how I feel about myself (I feel very very ugly) are presented to me once again. And even in times when I do feel okay with how I look- its ban I believe in other people’s versions of how they see me through these things- I feel very, very devalued in that department and others. That is why I am choosing of late to not be around those people much if at all.
Part of body dysmorphia is that you dont know where you are in terms of how you look. It constantly changes and you can get hung up on seeing your reflection like in those weird mirrors. You want to keep going back to that mirror to see if its changed to something reasonable – or you want to avoid it all together. You dont know how others see you and how they are to you gives you clues to how they see you. Like this mentally handicapped woman who hadnt seen me in while and got a shock to how thin I looked to when she last saw me- and my reaction was a little off because I think people think Im anorexic or something and he words was ‘that I still looked the same but just thinner’ and I took that as meaning I still looked the same… like Im nothing special to look at .. like I dont deserve something nice said about my appearance. I lied when I said my mum doesnt say nice things- she says I have really nice skin- and that to me is like saying that Im ugly – Im not beautiful or pretty because she so easily gives out those compliments about those people when she sees them.
I feel like people are wary of even saying anything nice to me- like there is something wrong with me. Like in Easter, when the whole family came over- hadnt seen them in a year- and last time I was very overweight and stuff- this time I was slim and wearing trendy clothing for once in my life.. yet nobody said a thing and its though they looked at me like I had a disease or something. That lead me to think of myself as looking sickly and too thin and stuff. ( I am healthy with my food, I am not anorexic). This is something that this abusie ex used to tell me constantly back in the day.When I was a teenager I remember being very popular and esp popular with the boys. I would get alot of attention and gifts and declarations of love thrown at me. I remember having girls admire how I looked and some would get jealous. I didnt do much to provoke any of that at all. But that is really what I have to go on in terms of my ‘positive’ social history. I guess I somehow expect every man to act how the boys acted around me then. And I guess I was labelled with having a pretty face and stuff in my teens and so and to now in my early thirties (tho people think Im much younger) to be labled not important like that. My identity is confused.
June 21, 2016 at 8:23 am #107839AnonymousGuestDear Karene:
I read all of your most recent post and this is my input:
You are very welcome and I am glad that you are choosing to express your thoughts and your feelings here. They are very important and I am honored that you share them. I agree with you, that it is also healthy for you to do so, to share your thoughts and feelings with a trustworthy individual, which I believe I am.
At this point, when a person does want to compliment you on your looks and succeed in delivery, that person must be very, very careful because your strong inclination is to seek negative in a comment made. If I was to tell you that you look so good having lost the weight that you have and wearing clothes you couldn’t wear before, I would have to be careful about these things:
* Be careful to not cause Karene to think I mean that she lost too much weight and is therefore anorexic and looking sickly.
* Be careful not to compliment her on a particle feature, like her eyes, or hair because then she will think that I meant that the features/ parts that I didn’t mention are ugly.Be careful … be careful… and so, if I was to give you a sincere compliment on your looks, I would expect to see a worried look on your face, a displeasure as you process my compliment and extract from it negative things. So if I am to say a compliment, a one sentence compliment, I would have to continue with a whole page or two pages to let you know what I meant by that one sentence and what I didn’t mean.
And so it is possible that people who saw the distress on your face when they did compliment you are avoiding doing it now so to not cause you distress.
On the other hand, I don’t think this is what the guy at work is thinking. I think he was very rude to you, insulting your cooking and not following up his promises to you with action. And as far as I know, he never complimented you. So to me, he is a lost cause. Nothing good is to come from … looking for something good from him.
In the future, if you are close to a person, ask that person to not talk about how pretty some other woman is because it triggers you and causes you distress. If you told me that, I would respect it and accommodate you.
What do you think about my post here? Please let me know.
anita
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