Home→Forums→Relationships→“Frenemies” and the desire for true friendship
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anita.
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May 14, 2024 at 8:35 am #432657
nycartist
ParticipantI have dealt with toxic relationships many times in my life. It always hurts when it happens in a long-time friendship.
I have a friendship of some 20 years that has become a bit toxic, I’m afraid. We have had our ups and downs over the years and even didn’t speak for a time. Back when we didn’t speak I felt this friend was very controlling and judgemental, and would say snarky things to me. If I had a response, or any kind of reaction, I was “Making a big deal of nothing”, or “too sensitive”. We stopped talking for a while as it got to be too much. But then this friend came back into my life very apologetic and seemingly had changed her ways.
Fast forward some 8 years later and these snarky comments are coming back again. We recently went out and I was having a great time, only the next day to be told I was being flirty with everyone we had come across. This isn’t true at all, I am actually happily married, but was just enjoying a girls night and being out in some night life for a change. I have no intention of flirting. I happen to be a friendly person and it seems if anyone who is a male even so much as asks me a question, this friend asumes I am flirting for a “confidence boost”. It feels hurtful and like she is not just out having a good time with me, but watching my every move and judging me. She knows my marriage is great but sometimes you just want to go out and have a fun time. She on the other hand is single and I am thinking perhaps there is some kind of jealousy there in some way. Anyway, it makes me feel very icky and I don’t really know how to approach this. As I mentioned, if I bring anything up, I am “over reacting”.
I just want friends who want the best for me, like I do for them. I don’t feel competitive toward them, I root for them. And I’d like the same in return. I’ve lost some other long term friendships in similar ways where it became toxic, catty, and I just hate it. I’m very passive, and try not to cause any drama, but I think I am attracted to dramatic people who like to push their way. I want that kind of friendship where you root for each other and it’s all love. Is that just unrealistic?
May 14, 2024 at 11:37 am #432661anita
ParticipantDear nycartist:
Welcome back New York City Artist!
“We recently went out and I was having a great time, only the next day to be told I was being flirty with everyone we had come across… for a ‘confidence boost’. It feels hurtful and like she is not just out having a good time with me, but watching my every move and judging me. She knows my marriage is great but sometimes you just want to go out and have a fun time. She on the other hand is single and I am thinking perhaps there is some kind of jealousy there.. if I bring anything up, I am ‘over reacting’… I want that kind of friendship where you root for each other and it’s all love. Is that just unrealistic?“-
– There are too many people out there who are overly judgmental and who express their judgments when it is uncalled for. Therefore, statistically, it is unrealistic to not come across judgmental people. I have been overly judgmental myself, still feel judgmental when I shouldn’t, but I am working on correcting my distorted judgmental thinking, and on not expressing such to people who need and deserve acceptance, not rejection.
The fact that she tells you that you are overreacting is concerning beyond her judgment itself.
Maybe she flirts with men unsuccessfully, she then observes you being social, with better results (men responding to you more positively than they respond to her), and she feels jealous, and lashes at you angrily with a piece of uncalled for judgment.
anita
May 14, 2024 at 12:26 pm #432670Helcat
ParticipantHi Nycartist
Quite often people misattribute being friendly for being flirty. It’s not uncommon for people in happy relationships to be flirty as a joke either as they feel secure in their relationships they don’t see it as true flirting where there would be a sexual interest.
I don’t think that your friend calling you flirty is a bad thing. Has she said anything else judgemental recently? You mentioned that there used to be issues between you both, could it be that you are worrying about those issues cropping up between you again?
Are you assuming that your friend isn’t being supportive? Or did she say something to suggest otherwise?
My husband is flirty without realizing it. Sometimes my sister and I tease him lightly about it and we all laugh together. Sometimes these comments are banter and jokes as opposed to serious?
I definitely think it’s possible to have relationships which aren’t judgemental and are loving and supportive. The trick is meeting kind people with good communication skills.
Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏
May 15, 2024 at 5:29 am #432689nycartist
ParticipantHi Anita!
Thanks for the welcome back! It’s always nice to pop on here from time to time! 🙂 I hope you’ve been well!
Yes, I think she is more interested in flirting as a single woman, and perhaps gets annoyed if men approach me as I am not interested in anything more than being social and friendly.
She also makes little remarks about my appearance which annoy me and feel like backhanded compliments. For example, I have very curly hair, which I happen to like. But she often makes comments about my hair saying it looks so crazy and unbrushed. Or she will mention how my hips are so narrow and her’s are definitely wider. It’s just odd, and feels very comparative. The other day she commented on how we both have “unique faces that not every man would appreciate”. LOL. It is a bit ridiculous! Even writing it out, I realize there are some insecurities on her part. For my part, I am like most women, insecure about a few things, but overall I feel good in my skin. I always compliment her when we meet up, tell her that her outfit is great, or her hair looks nice, etc, but I realize I rarely get positive feedback in return. It’s not really expected, I give my compliments genuinely. I am just noticing this pattern where I am very encouraging and positive, and I feel like she gives me these little papercut compliments, if you can call them that. There are just many very minor snarks, and it all cumulates in my mind, and sometimes I do get rubbed the wrong way and have a bit of a reaction. Then she tells me I am overly sensitive, because the individual thing I am reacting to is minor, but it’s been built up by many little remarks.
I think we can all be judgemental for sure. I have learned over the years what is useful to share and what isn’t. The world is so ugly, I try to share the positive, because there’s enough ugly to go around. Anita, have you ever read “The Four Agreements”? I am going back to it, because it has great tips about being impeccable with your word (only speaking with integrity and not speaking ill of others or of ourselves), and not taking things personally. I feel like I can maybe apply this to my situation with my friend. I think her comments are coming from her own perspective and view of things. My question to myself is, do I want to stay close to someone who seems to see me as a competitor, and inferior to her?
May 15, 2024 at 5:35 am #432690nycartist
ParticipantHelcat,
Thanks for your response! Yes, I agree flirty isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I think of it much more as being social. I am an extrovert and love to be social, with both women and men. I feel like I am just as friendly to women as I am to men, and my friend misconstrues my socialness as flirtatiousness, but I am just happy to meet people and have a moment of connection. It gives me faith in humanity.
I mentioned in my comment above to Anita a few things that my friend says that are in addition to accusing me of flirting. Just little catty remarks about my appearance or sometimes judgemental things about my other friends and my job too. I think I need to examine this relationship and decide if it should be as close as it is. Maybe this becomes more of a friend I see less frequently to make room for those other kind people that are out there.
Love and best wishes to you as well!
May 15, 2024 at 6:54 am #432691Helcat
ParticipantHi Nycartist
I see what you mean, your friend often makes critical remarks. I think that you’re very sharp in catching onto her insecurities about herself. I also believe that might be where the comments are coming from.
It reminds me of my mother and sister. My mother used to tell my sister that she was fat and compare herself at that age and say how much skinnier she used to be.
The problem was that my mother was overweight, my sister was not – she was just being bullied. She said these things to feel better about her own appearance.
Perhaps you could tell your friend when she makes comments like that. “Please don’t make comments about my appearance.” Or something like that.
I’m glad to hear that you enjoy talking to people and being friendly! That was definitely the vibe I got from you.
Good luck figuring things out with your friend. I’m sure that you will find the balance that suits you best in the relationship.
Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏
May 15, 2024 at 8:36 am #432692anita
ParticipantDear nycartist:
You are welcome and thank you for popping on here from time to time, good to read from you anytime. I am as well as I was on the first day I replied to you, March 9, 2019. It was a Saturday (I just checked).
“Overall I feel good in my skin. I always compliment her when we meet up, tell her that her outfit is great, or her hair looks nice, etc… I give my compliments genuinely“- you are a genuine friend to her.
“She also makes little remarks about my appearance… comments about my hair saying it looks so crazy and unbrushed… my hips are so narrow and hers are definitely wider… we both have ‘unique faces that not every man would appreciate’… I realize there are some insecurities on her part– she is indeed a frenemy, just as you stated in the title of your thread, inside quotation marks. One of her comments, paraphrased: you have an unattractive face. But the criticism is hidden (not really) under we, as if her saying that she too has an unattractive face, neutralizes her saying that you do.
As far as her comments about your hair looking so crazy and unbrushed and your hips being narrow. By themselves, maybe she pointed to these as positives because she likes crazy and unbrushed hair, as well as narrow hips. But you probably know that she doesn’t because of her comments about other people’s hair and hips.
“… many very minor snarks, and it all cumulates in my mind, and sometimes I do get rubbed the wrong way and have a bit of a reaction. Then she tells me I am overly sensitive, because the individual thing I am reacting to is minor, but it’s been built up by many little remarks“- sometimes following her criticisms, you react, and her response: to criticize you further, not for your physical appearance this time, but for your personality (overly sensitive).
Why is she doing this, I ask myself: to unload/ express her anger, her aggression, bit by bit, a little here, a little there. It makes me think of a dog growling instead of barking; sometimes you react and say: you are growling at me! And she responds: you are oversensitive, I didn’t bark at you!
This is making me think about my first ever reply to you back on 3/9/2019. It was about another aggressor in your life, the barking kind. I wrote to you back then: “When a big bad wolf huffs and puffs and threatens to blow your house down… you don’t open the door to the wolf. You don’t try to talk sense to the wolf. You don’t wait for his apology”.
Well, she is not a big bad wolf threatening to blow your house down. She is.. only chipping away at it.
“Anita, have you ever read ‘The Four Agreements’? I am going back to it, because it has great tips about being impeccable with your word… I feel like I can maybe apply this to my situation with my friend… My question to myself is, do I want to stay close to someone who seems to see me as a competitor, and inferior to her?“- is the price you have to pay for the friendship part of her frenemy: to accept her .. little aggressions..?
I wonder if The Four Agreements has the answer (quotes): “If someone is not treating you with love and respect, it is a gift if they walk away from you. If that person doesn’t walk away, you will surely endure many years of suffering with him or her. Walking away may hurt for a while, but your heart will eventually heal.“,
“I will no longer allow anyone to manipulate my mind and control my life in the name of love.”,
Here’s a quote that’s almost meant for you personally, nyc-artist: “Every human is an artist. The dream of your life is to make beautiful art.“- ethical anger (non-abusive anger) is part of us humans being beautiful (I am learning this these very days, for the first time in my life). Abusive anger is ugly. Anger that points to another as inferior for their physical looks (skin color, facial features, height, weight, body shape, hair color and texture, etc.) is abusive and ugly.
“I have learned over the years what is useful to share and what isn’t. The world is so ugly, I try to share the positive, because there’s enough ugly to go around…(only speaking with integrity and not speaking ill of others or of ourselves), and not taking things personally“- not speaking ill of others or of ourselves. I’ll do my best to keep this in mind, thank you, nycartist!
anita
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