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  • #387562
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Elizabeth:

    I am here, will be reading from the bottom up. I want to take my time reading here and  your other thread, so it will take me some time before I reply.

    anita

    #387567
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Elizabeth:

    Having read all your recent posts in this thread, in your new thread and replies to other members, I am  impressed by your courage and strength of character,  going on your journey of self-discovery and reclaiming yourself.. for yourself, as you put it. This very journey plus doing your best to be a decent human being is admirable, and you deserve to walk off with your head held high, just as you wrote in a reply to another member (“.. done your best to be a decent human being walk off with your head held high“). In my mind’s eye, I see you walking with your head held high and I feel respect for you.

    You wrote about your recent therapy session and your self-discovery journey: “I don’t think I have ever truly confronted my own discomfort and myself head-on like this before. This is truly unnerving. I don’t know what to do with all these feelings that I am feeling right now“- there will be discomfort, times of elation and times of sadness and discouragement. Persist in your journey regardless of how you feel at any particular moment. In difficult moments, ask yourself: what can I learn in this very moment? I find the journey of self-discovery a journey of learning, and as long as I am learning, it is interesting. The interesting factor keeps me going through difficult moments.

    I am so sorry that your sister got infected with HIV, had AIDS and died. It is so sad that a person once full of life, “very ambitious and a good girl.. coming into her own” didn’t have a better and longer life.

    In regard to Christopher wearing an “Everyone likes me, everyone thinks am nice” mask, while under the mask he is selfish, arrogant, deceitful and “capable of cutting someone who is already down and broken“- all your honesty and all the love you ever felt for him..  can not convince him to remove his mask, to go on his own self-discovery and be a decent human being. Neither will your anger convince him. There is nothing for you to do but to indeed make that last exchange you had with him “the VERY last time” that you try to make him understand anything about .. anything.

    People with heavy duty masks will not take them off because it is easier and profitable to keep their masks on, at least on the short-term. People tend to do what is Easier-Now, which is very different from what a self-discovery journey and being a decent human being is about!

    anita

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by anita.
    #387600
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi Anita,

    I always value your responses. I need to have an unbiased opinion from someone free of any personal experiences because I feel like they can see my soul in what I write instead. Which to me feels like a more accurate assessment of who I am as a person.   I discovered a long time ago how to put my feelings on paper as a way of introspecting.

    This week I have learnt that unlearning behaviours that you have grown up harnessing is very hard. So sometimes I tend to self-sabotage my journey.  Some days I miss Christopher so badly. But I am learning slowly that this is normal because I shared very deep and private feelings and moments with him. I bared my soul to this person, so weaning myself of him is not going to be an overnight task.

    I find myself falling back into old patterns where I feel like saving him still.  But then I remind myself that here you go again trying to help someone who has not asked for your help.  Then I stop. The more I confront my discomfort the more I become aware and conscious when I fall back into old patterns and it is becoming easier to stop myself and redirect my efforts. I got so used to acting without truly thinking about the motivations for my behaviour.

    I have had a few conversations with him since. The first few were very textbook and glossy. All window dressing. Said the right thing at the right time but no heart or warmth. Very cold. But it kept me thinking about what is he hiding.  The curiosity kept me wanting to engage him even more. It bothered me that I didn’t know this person whom I was intimate with.  Who is this person I gave my heart to?

    And so I would have structured conversations with him every so often. Yesterday I went in for it. I felt frustrated most of the day that he walks around with this droid face. Looking perfect and all together. Maybe I was being a bit petty and passive-aggressive. So I asked him a series of questions. And I told him very openly as he owed me the truth. If there was ever anything I would ever ask for from him, it’s the truth.

    The answers he gave me were expected. But it’s what he said to me when I didn’t ask any questions that got me thinking… it opened up my eyes to his actual emotional state. It shocked me what I saw. Reading everything over and over, I realised that he is emotionally stunted! He is a little boy on the inside still struggling to get approval by any means possible. It’s like what my son would do when he does something wrong and gets punished for it.

    He is a little boy stuck inside a grown man’s body. He craves approval from his mother, and on several occasions when I look back I see him doing the same thing with me.  He acted in ways in which he knew would gain my approval until things got to a place where he was needed to step up and take the lead or be the pillar I needed emotionally, then he was out the door running scared.

    I heard this once, “hurt people hurt other people”. I never truly believed it but now I do. Towards the end of the conversation he said to me he felt emotionally drained. In his mind, I blamed him for everything that went wrong in our relationship. I blamed him for hurting me. But the truth is I never did. I was disappointed, felt cheated and used and as soon as I needed him, I was no longer beneficial he discarded me, but I know all too well I had my part in the whole saga.

    This left me confused and stressed. Seeing what I saw yesterday, I am now seeing things in a whole new light. I feel like I look for broken men to fix because deep down I don’t want to address my issues and my childhood trauma.

    Like you said the journey is not easy. But I am willing and determined and so I will keep pushing! I am soldering on. As for Christopher, I am done with him. I am no longer curious about what motivates him. I saw him in a new light. He is a broken child on the inside and he is toxic. He is now walking around hardened by the guilt of what he did and each time I engage him, he starts apologizing.

    Despite me openly telling him that I have forgiven him but don’t want to be friends with him is a thorn in his flesh. In his mind, for me to truly forgive I have to be friends with him. He is clueless. And is stuck on trying to push his narrative of forgiveness on me.  He wants me to forgive him on his terms!

    I have seen all I needed to see and I have conclusively decided that there is absolutely nothing to gain from being friends with him.

    I am more convinced more than ever that I am on the right track and doing the right thing now.

    Regards

    Elizabeth

     

    #387603
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Elizabeth:

    I started reading your recent post but I want to let you know of the possibility that I will lose electricity and internet because it is very windy where I live, and strong winds have caused power lines in my area to fall many times in the past. If and when that happens this morning or in the next few windy days, and I do not respond to you- it will be because I am unable to respond because of the loss of electricity and internet. The longest such loss in the past was a few days. I will be back to your thread shortly (assuming internet access is not lost).

    anita

    #387608
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Elizabeth:

    I always value your responses. I need to have an unbiased opinion from someone free of any personal experiences because I feel like they can see my soul in what I write instead. Which to me feels like a more accurate assessment of who I am as a person“- I want you to continue to value my responses, therefore I need to see your soul, to see who you are as a person- to my best ability.

    This week I have learnt that unlearning behaviours that you have grown up harnessing is very hard“- it has been so for me too, certain very undesirable behaviors on my part were incredibly hard to change. Fast forward a few years, and those behaviors have been completely changed!

    I bared my soul to this person, so weaning myself of him is not going to be an overnight task“- it caught my attention that you used the verb weaning, which is “the process of gradually introducing an infant human or another mammal to what will be its adult diet while withdrawing the supply of its mother’s milk” (Wiki). Isn’t it interesting.. our adult romantic relationships really are parallel to our earliest infant-mother relationship.

    I find myself falling back into old patterns where I feel like saving him still… I got so used to acting without truly thinking about the motivations for my behaviour“- continuing the parallel idea, I am guessing that as a child you felt the need to save your mother (or other caretaker).. perhaps. No need for you to respond to this thought of mine if you don’t feel like it, it’s okay with me. The reason I mention it is because as I read your words, your thoughts and experiences, I think of my own.

    It bothered me that I didn’t know this person whom I was intimate with.  Who is this person I gave my heart to?“- when we give our hearts to whom we don’t yet know… I can continue with the parallel idea above, but I don’t want to take away from your story.

    If there was ever anything I would ever ask for from him, it’s the truth“- a request that is too tough for many to accommodate!

    he is emotionally stunted! He is a little boy on the inside still struggling to get approval by any means possible. It’s like what my son would do when he does something wrong and gets punished for it“- there is a girl in every woman, a boy in every man. You can sometimes see the boy in the man’s eyes, hear the boy in the man’s voice.. and feel empathy for that boy.. but when the man holds the boy in a prison, keeping the boy incapacitated- the boy is out of your reach.

    He is a little boy stuck inside a grown man’s body. He craves approval from his mother, and on several occasions when I look back I see him doing the same thing with me“- I read this sentence before I wrote the paragraph above (I am reading your post part by part, responding to one part before reading  the next).

    I feel like I look for broken men to fix because deep down I don’t want to address my issues and my childhood trauma“- I mentioned the parallel in the beginning of this post.. before reading this sentence.

    As for Christopher, I am done with him. I am no longer curious about what motivates him. I saw him in a new light. He is a broken child on the inside and he is toxic. He is now walking around hardened by the guilt of what he did and each time I engage him, he starts apologizing“- if, and only if you want to attend to my parallel idea, please do. I will share something in this regard with you, connecting it to weaning, the verb you used in the beginning of your post:

    Again, weaning is “the process of gradually introducing an infant human or another mammal to what will be its adult diet while withdrawing the supply of its mother’s milk”-

    My mother was rude to everyone (mostly behind their backs), and to me. That was the “mother’s milk” that I knew, the flavor I recognized. Fast forward, I was drawn to this or that man who was rude to everyone, hoping that he will make an exception just for me. I was drawn, figuratively, to.. the only milk I knew, to the particular flavor that I recognized, but with a minor adjustment, a bit of an added flavor: that he will make an exception just for me. I wasn’t drawn to a man who was genuinely nice to everyone.. that was a kind of a flavor that I didn’t recognize,  and therefore, I wasn’t I drawn to it.

    He wants me to forgive him on his terms!“- what are his terms, and what are your terms, I wonder.

    anita

    #387628
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi Anita,

    “if, and only if you want to attend to my parallel idea, please do. I will share something in this regard with you, connecting it to weaning, the verb you used at the beginning of your post:”

    I would love to hear your narrative or parallel of what my story says to you.

    (“He wants me to forgive him on his terms!“- what are his terms, and what are your terms, I wonder.)

    My terms are quite simple. I believe that forgiving is a simple task, the forgetting part is the hard part and if someone does something once they will do it again.  I am a very firm believer in “Actions never lie”. Human beings are creatures of habit and don’t just change like that without a conscious effort. he is not making a conscious effort.

    I asked him in our last conversation why it was so important for him to greet me in public. I know for a fact that his persona is something he values the most because it distracts people from finding out what he is. that is a part that he didn’t plan on giving me access to when we started dating. but I have by chance come to know the rot inside.  His answer to my question was that greeting was a normal thing for people that know each other. Unless I didn’t forgive him greeting should be something we do.

    I was like no, you don’t get to determine how I forgive you and what I do with my forgiveness.  I am not a fool. I have forgiven you but God forbid I bring you anywhere near me and give you access to my personal space for you to hurt me again.  he has been playing innocent like he had an out of body experience when he said and did all those horrible things to me.  this is one of the reasons I don’t like Christians! their sense of responsibility for their bad actions is warped because they blame everything on the devil who had nothing to do with any of the mess they made. ( Did I mention he is a new-age Christian?)

    so in his books when I forgive him I should greet him and smile in public and act all sweet so that the whole world can see that he is such a swell guy.  I suppose he equally didn’t know me because those that do know me, know that I don’t play to the crowd and I have always been that one fish the swims upstream. (Oddity and peculiar). that’s what I say no to. I won’t be part of his elaborate charade.

    This whole year has been filled with harsh and rushed change.  I want to comfort myself and say everything happens for a reason, that there is some cosmic force (God) out there looking out for me and putting me out of harm’s way. I don’t want to do that because I want to take responsibility for my transformation.  I want to go through this whole process of transformative healing wide awake.

    I know I am a great person and an even more decent woman. I deserve to be with a man who respects me, a man that wants to be with me, value me as an individual and not an accessory for him to adorn himself with whenever he is feeling down. I am going to do better. I am going to transform myself into the best version of myself.  I will not dumb myself down to accommodate anyone ever again. it’s up to them to move up to my level.

     

    Elizabeth.

     

     

    #387629
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Anita,

    when I read your responses I feel like and find it hard to think that at some point you were just as broken as me.  we all have our wounds that need healing I suppose.

    I am glad you are in a better place and thank you for helping me navigate this perilous road that I am on at the moment

    Elizabeth

    #387649
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Elizabeth:

    You are welcome and thank you for sharing your amazing and courageous “process of transformative healing wide awake“, it is a privilege to read!

    I am a very firm believer in ‘Actions never lie“- words are easy to say,  effortless and quick..  it takes only a few seconds and hardly a calorie burnt to say a sentence, be it true or a lie.

    he has been playing innocent like he had an out of body experience when he said and did all those horrible things to me.  this is one of the reasons I don’t like Christians! their sense of responsibility for their bad actions is warped because they blame everything on the devil who had nothing to do with any of the mess they made“- well said. It’s convenient to give a fictional character the responsibility for our bad actions.

    in his books when I forgive him I should greet him and smile in public and act all sweet so that the whole world can see that he is such a swell guy.. I won’t be part of his elaborate charade“- better close his book and give it back to him, it is not worth your reading. You are writing your own book, authored by “a great person and an even more decent woman“!

    I want to comfort myself and say everything happens for a reason, that there is some cosmic force (God) out there looking out for me and putting me out of harm’s way. I don’t want to do that because I want to take responsibility for my transformation.  I want to go through this whole process of transformative healing wide awake“-  there is no real godly entity out there looking out for you.. (or for me, or for any individual), Better you  look out for yourself.. wide awake.

    I am going to do better. I am going to transform myself into the best version of myself.  I will not dumb myself down to accommodate anyone ever again. it’s up to them to move up to my level”– doesn’t read like this man is able or willing to transform himself to his best version. But there are men out there who do.. and you need only one.

    I read your new thread Tired. I suppose that being wide awake for too long is tiring. Please don’t forget to rest, and thank you for being a good mother to your son (“When I got home I had to be a mother to my son. I had to maintain a calm demeanour so that I didn’t scare my child“). Because I am communicating with you here, on this thread, I don’t see a reason to post on your new thread. I hope other members reply to you there, but it has been very slow here on the forums, for quite some time.

    In regard to the weaning concept that I mentioned, I find that it often happens that we as women are attracted/ stay with men who are difficult and not good for us because they remind us of a difficult parent, and we get busy with the impossible task of trying to change a difficult parent by proxy.

    anita

     

    #387804
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hey Anita,

    “Regarding the weaning concept that I mentioned, I find that it often happens that we as women are attracted/ stay with men who are difficult and not good for us because they remind us of a difficult parent, and we get busy with the impossible task of trying to change a difficult parent by proxy”.

    I don’t know how to explain it, but this makes so much sense.  It’s like you touched right on my heart.  You just don’t understand how much it touched me.

    Thank you

    Elizabeth

     

    #387818
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Elizabeth:

    You are welcome. I was touched to read that you were touched right on your heart, thank you for expressing this. I hope to read from you again, anytime you feel like posting. Whenever you do, I will read and reply.

    anita

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