April 11, 2016 at 8:12 am #101513AnonymousGuest
I understand why being thought of as enjoying “white privilege” (as I understand the term) is a sore spot for you. As you wrote, historically “we (Finns) were poor peasants under Swedish or Russian rule.”
And currently, millions and millions of white people are born into disadvantage: economical and/ or emotional. The numbers of white people all over the Western World, under medication for anxiety and depression, addicted or otherwise over using drugs/ alcohol, overeating into morbid obesity etc… is astonishing. No Privilege in any of that.
The fact that statistically the average income in a particular country is or has been higher for the white population, is just that: a statistic. A low income, struggling white person does not enjoy the privilege of a statistic.
How has your family, the family you were born into, fared as far as privilege or lack of, financially and otherwise? How .. privileged or unprivileged do you personally feel?
anitaApril 11, 2016 at 8:31 am #101517
I’m middle class. We have quite a large house, but aren’t affluent by any means. I currently live in a small student apartment. My parents are divorced and my dad has remarried. I have good family relations, luckily. For all intentions and purposes, I would describe myself as having a typical background. I’m not dealing with immediate money concerns for the time being, but I certainly hope I land a job for the summer and save up a bit. Our school system has no tuition fees and I hope to make it all the way through my Master’s studies without racking up debt. The state is quite supportive of students in general, although benefits will be cut soon in favor of incentivizing students to take up a loan, which many people object to.April 11, 2016 at 8:43 am #101520AnonymousGuest
You mean that tuition is not going to be free anymore in the future? Do you think the government is trying to get students to take loans so to finance … immigration into Finland? To finance social services for immigrants?
anitaApril 11, 2016 at 8:50 am #101522
Tuition is still going to be free, but the direct monthly support students get will be cut, I believe. So the state provides monthly support as long as you get enough credits, and also allows students to take up a low interest loan, which is also partially backed up by the state, so you don’t actually have to pay it back in full. This change is meant to leave the less student relying on the monthly support alone, since it is more expensive for the state. Tuition fees for international students will be introduced soon – thus far studying has been ‘free’ for them as well.
My sister moved to the Netherlands last year to study and immediately took up a loan. I hope she handles it responsibly, knowing her past spending habits. I can be quite frugal myself.
The government elected by last year’s elections did introduce a number of budget cuts to help the budget deficit – and the extra spending caused by the refugee crisis ate up most of the ‘saved’ money, I believe. It’s a mess.April 11, 2016 at 9:00 am #101526AnonymousGuest
The refuge crisis has caused the current budget deficit in Finland? Or greatly increased it?
What are the consequences to you, as you see it, that the “saved” money was spent, without the consent of the people, I am supposing? Did the government had the right to spend money that was under a presumed saved- status, saved for the citizens of Finland?
anitaApril 11, 2016 at 9:11 am #101527
We have a budget deficit because we still haven’t fully recovered from the 2008 crisis. Last year, a number of cuts were introduced to help reduce that deficit, but not only is cutting funds spent on education incredibly counterproductive, the refuge crisis is such a money sinkhole that we’re no better off than we were before because no actual money has been saved. I’m not sure what the consensus on that decision is. Obviously, you have people supporting taking in tons of refugees – typically people on benefits themselves and with little understanding of economics.
I did actually talk about this in my second post on that forum – really, it was a big mess where I tried to combine several topics into one post – and expressed my opposition toward taking in refugees, which led to people guilt tripping me and I ended up making donations to refugee funds to help me feel better. It was a stupid martyr move all around. Like I said, I had other forums with very like minded people where I could’ve discussed this stuff freely with no fear of my words backfiring on me.April 11, 2016 at 9:37 am #101532AnonymousGuest
In airplanes, the passengers are instructed, in case of emergencies, to put the oxygen mask on themselves first before placing it on others, even their children. It is natural and necessary to take care of oneself first, before attempting to take care of others. I understand your incredible frustration as it has been for a while, about this dilemma:
How much do you give to take care of someone else? How much do you take away from yourself so to help another?
And when helping another is hurting yourself, do you keep doing it, keep helping another and hurting yourself?
If someone is hungry and has no food available in your neighborhood, you’d go to them and give them food, since you have enough food and more and it doesn’t hurt you really to give up a simple sandwich to the hungry person. That would make sense. But you wouldn’t leave your room, your bed, your home, give the hungry person your key to your home and live in the streets yourself.
This is an extreme example. But it is a scary to think that a government will be so blind as to go this far as to hurt its citizens so to help others.
Is this your concern? Is this what enraged you? If it did and is enraging you, please do calm down. If it is so, we can discuss it more and more over time until I hope I can help you (I am always very humble about my hopes to be helpful) reach some peace of mind… this is what I aim for.
anitaApril 11, 2016 at 9:51 am #101534
The refugee crisis was not my main concern at the time, although I did try to debate it on the side. My main concern at the time was the role of islam in Europe, to which the refugee crisis does tie, since many of the refugees are muslim. There are some eastern European countries who have announced their willingness to take in refugees, but only if they are Christian, if my memory is to be believed. Currently, I don’t really know what I believe. I mean, for a long time I didn’t know what I thought about any of this – it hadn’t been part of my interests and I had never formed an opinion. I had been gathering statistics and following news related to immigration and islam for a while and it was that first post I made that really got me thinking more about it – you could say I became obsessed. Now I suppose I am back to square one – I have gone back on my words and it is no longer an immediate interest of mine – which does frustrate me, because I would like to be interested in it and debate it elsewhere, but I have been burned to the point where I would just rather take a long break from all of it, and get back to it when I am genuinely interested in it again and do not feel like I owe anyone anything for my past words. I clearly remember how just before I made that second post, I was so ridiculiusly excited that it completely clouded my judgment. They were discussing a hate crime directed toward some muslims at the time which should’ve been a red flag that hey, maybe this isn’t the right place to debate this.
I’m very thankful that you’re taking the time to discuss this with me. I also booked an appointment for a health check next week, and they’ll hopefully direct me to a psychologist.
April 11, 2016 at 10:11 am #101536AnonymousGuest
- This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Mete.
I would be very interested to read about the health check and apt with a psychologist next week.
I am here to discuss any topic with you, if and when you feel the need, while being respectful to you at all times (a promise!)
Till your next post-
anitaApril 11, 2016 at 10:14 am #101537
They’ll place me on a queue after the health check and I have no idea how long the queue will be. I’ll be sure to keep you updated, though.April 11, 2016 at 10:16 am #101538AnonymousGuest
Good! And post anytime.
anitaJune 1, 2016 at 3:54 pm #106245
Hello! It’s been a while. I’m feeling a bit better, it certainly helps that it’s not so dark anymore. Had my psychologist appointment and it went as you’d expect. We went through the whole ordeal, he asked some questions and so forth. Nothing groundbreaking, but it did help a bit and it’s certainly nice to be able to talk about this stuff with a professional. I have another appointment a few weeks from now.
I got in touch with the last person related to this on that forum and she was very supportive and condemned the way others behaved toward me back then so that’s nice. I’m done with that forum for good.
Also, some changes to my plans. I applied for master’s studies but screwed up the application process and received a negative reply – in other words, I have to wait another year to apply again. So what I’ll instead do now is continue my current studies with a fifth year. This is honestly okay because now I don’t have to worry about graduation. I did not manage to land a job for the summer, so I’ll spend it doing some online courses for credits and recovering so that I have energy in the fall. If money becomes an issue, I can look for a part time job in the fall, or take up a loan.June 1, 2016 at 8:39 pm #106269AnonymousGuest
Welcome back to your forum! Nice to read from you again. Glad you feel better after seeing the therapist and that you have another apt with him. Also good thing you are done indeed with that forum for good. So you are continuing your current studies a fifth year, so online courses for credit in the summer and maybe get a part time job in the fall. That’s a plan!
Please do post again… And it is the first day of June, not dark anymore in your part of the world!
anitaJune 5, 2016 at 2:37 pm #106584Rose TattooParticipant
I don’t know what you said/didn’t say or believe/don’t believe, but it sounds like you were being sort of a troll, and then got called on it. If you are actually feeling genuinely bad, good for you, and yes, people will move on eventually. I’ve certainly made mistakes online and had people call me on my stuff. Life is about making mistakes and learning to live with them. It sounds, from your description, like you’re genuinely wanting to make it better. But you still feel guilt. That’s actually OK, because that’s the purpose of guilt: to show us how to be better.
From my experience, written communications can leave out some important signifiers for other people, such as facial expression, body language, and tone of voice. I read something somewhere that verbal communication is a very small percentage of what we communicate when we interact with others in person. In writing, a lot of this communication is absent. That’s why there are so many misunderstandings online. I’m not saying online communication is bad, just: it’s something to remember. And then when people get triggered and mad, arguing with them (or trying to explain or backtrack) can fuel the fire. Generally, when people start down the road of freakout online, I step away. I make the point I wanted to make, and then leave the convo so people can have their own drama, etc. Eventually I might come back to see what the upshot of the conversation was, but engaging in online arguments, in my opinion, is just a road to drama, bad feelings, etc. I’ve learned this the hard way, btw.
I understand how it is to feel like people don’t like you, are mad at you, etc in a community you want to remain a part of. My advice is to learn from this experience and engage with people online as if nothing happened (while using the experience to help you understand yourself better). Don’t try to explain anymore, or apologize anymore. This is life: we screw up, and then we learn from it or don’t, and life goes on.
Maybe don’t write things online that you don’t believe?June 6, 2016 at 4:22 am #106620
Nah, I wasn’t being a troll. Neither am I going to claim I’m completely innocent or anything, but the way some people there behaved was truly mind boggling – I’ve never seen anything like it before. Instantly resorting to personal insults and striving to make the absolute worst of people based on a hastily written forum post. You go and express a half baked opinion, prepare to get torn apart by people you’ve been buddies with for years. I can go and read the comments section of any online article dealing with immigration and find people saying way nastier things that what I had to say.
The forums I’m currently a member of are much more lax and I don’t have to worry about anything like this happening ever again, luckily.
The more I think about it, the more absurd the concept of even debating immigration online becomes. Why invest all that energy on something that will change absolutely nothing?