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  • January 2, 2020 at 8:28 am #330777
    Tortured Soul
    Participant

    Dear All

     

    I’ve recently become interested in this site and have come here to get some objective and constructive advice because I am struggling to process my emotions.  I have been wanting to get this out my system for along time.

     

    This last year has been pretty disastrous. I lost my job and found a new one, I had an accident and have suffered injuries for a long time, my husband and I were not getting on and have separated. Massive personal change.  A bit of background.

     

    I was practically raised in boarding school and am super independent. I am the youngest of 5 children. Our background was poverty.  My parents divorced at an early age and I rarely had any contact with my father, despite the fact I was a tomboy and fiercely wanted a father.  He never cared about us and my interactions with him as a child always involved violence, threatening behaviour etc.  My mother is one of those positive thinking, can do people.  She is remarkable.  Not perfect but a strong character.  She did the best she could to take care of us, even though some of my siblings may disagree.  They all have children and are married and still live in the country of my birth.  I live in the UK and have done so for many years.

     

    I am a 46-year-old professional now working in a fairly stressful environment.  I am loving what I do. It hasn’t come easily, and it’s been a bumpy journey.  I see a good future where I am currently at.  There is a very strong bond with my boss who I’ve been working with for about 8 months. He is a remarkable and spiritual character who is recovering from surgery, so I have been holding the office together, thus far, during his 2-month absence.

     

    I was with my husband for 10 years. He is 10 years younger. Loves children.  We had no children. We took on a building project 2 years ago, which proved stressful and expensive. We drifted apart. When it got to the point he couldn’t be bothered to have a conversation with me and connect on any level, it made me question our relationship.  After a long period of high conflict, I started to realise that we weren’t getting what we wanted from the relationship.  We had a frank chat one day about 6 months ago and decided to separate.

     

    I loved my husband and for 8 years we had a great relationship. Not perfect but happy. It was when we bought the house and the stress came, he didn’t treat me with love. It didn’t matter how many times I spoke to him; he simply didn’t care how bad he made me (and others) feel. Since we have split, he has made no efforts to repair our relationship, so I accept that it is over. There was no physical desire anymore on either side. We were both so tired from the stresses of the building project we had undertaken and the constant high conflict in our relationship got tiring.

     

    When we first separated, we had long earnest chats and decided that we would try and stay friends. I wish him well in finding someone to have a family with.  Also, because of the expense with the building project, we decided that we could stay on the same property until we pay the debts back – we will try and do this in a year.  We want to make sure that our union did not occur for nothing and make things right.  We are navigating our way through life. It’s not easy but there are 3 parts to the property and we both stay on separate parts. He works long hours so is rarely around anyway.

     

    He started dating around almost immediately after our separation and since then, has a succession of flings/girlfriends.  He is currently with someone.  I have never met this person, but I imagine that in the natural progression in life, we will meet at some point.  We want to move forward with kindness.  I spoke to him out on it the other day and he said that he cares for me like I was his sister. Say no more… I realise he is a narcissist and whilst I think I understand my yearning to veer towards emotionally unavailable men, it doesn’t change the way I think.  The plan is to eventually invest in another property and each of us will take one.  Whether that plan ever generates is another story. We are going with the flow.

     

    Anyway, this is some of the background.  Moving on to my problem.

     

    About 7 months ago, we moved into a new office block.  There are lots of different companies in the block.  I recall that one day my Italian co-worker and I were sitting in the office and 2 of our Italian neighbours in the building came in and asked if we would like a coffee. They were chatting.  That’s the first time I met the Italian Stallion.  He had such presence when he walked in. He quickly turned round and walked to the door and stood there. The atmosphere was electric.  Anyway, at the time, I was still trying to work things out with my husband so didn’t pay much attention to him.

     

    One day my husband rang me and was abusing me down the phone (he doesn’t know or care to communicate with respect because it’s all about the stress he feels). I was in the office and I recall just feeling cringeworthy as my colleague was in the office and could hear him ranting away. I kept calm and let him go crazy as I am constantly standing up for myself (I am no shrinking wallflower), hence the high conflict relationship. When I got off the phone, I recall thinking “if this was happening to one of my colleagues, I would have to think why they are with them”.

     

    Anyway, I was sitting at my desk with all the negative thoughts in my head i.e. large mortgage, middle of building works, how can we separate, not great timing, why my husband is unable to properly take charge of things without having a meltdown etc etc. The truth be told, he is a different culture, never does housework etc but built this property which is beautiful, so I see some balance. However, the biggest frustration has always been the fact he cannot do anything for himself.  I live 2 people’s lives. Me, being super independent, I never ask for help unless its serious. I do not want to inconvenience people. I am self-sufficient. So back to sitting at my desk, the Italian comes charging past with a group of people in tow. He’s confident, charming, smiling, bossing everyone about. I recall looking at him thinking “WOW, that guy is sex on legs”.  He comes across as a man who can really look after himself. When he returned he was walking past and with everyone in tow. He caught my eye and I was properly eyeing him out thinking he wouldn’t notice. The next minute, our eyes met and locked. It was a brief moment, but it was the moment it all started. The limerence. Does anyone know what that is? It’s never happened to me before. It felt like love at first sight.

     

    This moment was the one that sealed the end of my marriage. That weekend, my husband came in from working late and walked past me without acknowledging me and went upstairs and put the football on.  I went and sat with him. He couldn’t be bothered to speak to me because he was too tired as usual.  After half an hour of silence and lack of interest on his part, I got up and told him I wanted to speak to him seriously. So we had a chat and I told him all the things that were on my mind. I asked him if he loved me.  He said he did and gave the usual excuse of being exhausted.  I had been telling him for 6 months before that I wasn’t feeling love from him. He never changed anything.  In fact, things just got worse.  I was fairly honest with him. I told him that I had started finding myself attracted to other people because they were nice to me, something he couldn’t be bothered to do. I said someone in particular had caught my eye and I knew in that instant, that this was the wrong relationship for me and that I could do far better than this torture.  I told him I saw passion and fire and I wanted a relationship that has that.  I said the man had moved out the building and I never saw him again (this is untrue).  He was upset. We decided to end things.  Since then he always says that I let him down at a crucial time when he needed me most. He does not see how hurtful his actions were and even when he does, he doesn’t change.  He also says that I am a very important person in his life and he always wants me to be in it.  We are both on the same page, which is good.  He is now loving life.

     

    After a lot of discussion, we decided that I would stay in the property as our mortgage is high and we owe a lot of money to people/bank for building. Our intention is to maintain a friendly relationship but have our own places within the property.  I have become close to his very large family and have been in some of the children’s lives since before birth and so far we have maintained good terms.  He’s never around which helps. He has a girlfriend who he is getting serious about and life has moved on. I have no emotional/sexual connection for him anymore and that, coupled with the fact that he is 10 years younger, means that I am able to maintain the living arrangements. I really don’t care what he does. Once the money is paid up etc, then we will reassess the situation.  The ultimate aim to get our own places and space – separate properly.  It’s an unconventional arrangement but the only one that can work right now.

     

    I carried on at work and tried to brush off the embarrassment of my unconscious desire for the Italian and the fact he caught me checking him out.  However, he started making some very encouraging advances. All eye contact.  He has only ever spoken to me properly on 4 occasions.  We both freeze in each other’s presence. I’ve seen him dropping his keys and other things with nervousness, when I come too close, awkward chit chat, lots of smiling and flirting.  If I can get one glimpse of him in a day, it makes me so happy.  I reverted into this fantasy world about him. He is all I ever think about and the things I could do to/with him.  I would practically have his babies (I am childless at 46 by choice). The attraction is so strong and powerful.

     

    I always thought it strange that he never tries to speak to me more often as he is clearly attracted to me and he only works next door so has to walk past my office to get to his. One day, back in July, he disappeared for 2 weeks on holiday. I say disappeared, because he never told me he was going on holiday.  Why would he!  During this period, I felt like I was in such pain. I couldn’t eat, sleep etc. I lost a significant amount of weight. By the time he got back, I was completely transformed. Seeing him is like having a soulmate experience.  He sees my soul and I see his. There is magic in the air when he is around. I cannot explain it. I have never experienced something like this before, not even with my husband.  The reality is I don’t know him and I don’t know much about him. I wonder sometimes if it’s all in my head.  When he got back from holiday, I plucked up the courage to go and speak to him as I knew he was alone in his office and I had missed him terribly.  He was inviting and pulled out a chair next to him. I apologised for making things awkward in the office. I thought that if I just spoke openly that it would clear up any awkwardness. He told me there was nothing to apologise for. We chatted about life. I asked him where he had been and he said “we were in …..”. Then he mentioned children. He has 3 children. I was a bit shocked. Then I looked at his wedding finger and he had a wedding ring on. Rookie mistake I guess, not noticing before. At that point, I shook my head and openly said to him “oh no”. He knew I was making a reference to the ring. I made it clear and expressed my disappointment at the situation. I was pretty devastated. I tried to compose myself and said my goodbyes. I spent days trying to process the fact that this man is married. He certainly wasn’t behaving as if he was.  He knew I was affected too.

     

    I tried to hide my feelings and move on but it was almost as if he knew I was pulling away and he started doing things to get my attention. The one day he walked past and his shirt was unbuttoned and flapped open. This is all romance novel bull!!!  He is hot. A man who looks after himself. He is bold and seems so together… my perfect man. I know his intentions are to only have sex with me.  That day our eyes met, I remembered thinking, “I’m going to have you – all of you or nothing”.  Although I know he is not perfect, in my fantasy head, nobody compares to him. He is all man.  One look from him and I am transported into fantasy land.  I want to connect with him and I can’t. I cannot even express the way I feel. I just know that there is this mutual attraction which is never going anywhere.  It’s not a silly crush, it’s limerence at its best.

     

    From my own life experience, I do not want to break up a family. I don’t want to hurt anyone, especially children.  The man is well off and is from a culture where divorce never happens and family is important. I have no illusion that he would ever consider leaving his wife.  They have amazing holidays and live in a beautiful home.  I wonder if perhaps its natural for Italians to have affairs. I wouldn’t know but they seem to have a reputation for being ladies men. I guess I will never know and we cannot speak about these things.

     

    I think perhaps he is going through a mid-life crisis at 48. His wife must be tired with having to raise 3 children. He is a busy guy and comes across as very capable.  He has traits of being emotionally unavailable, worse than my husband and my father. I sometimes wonder if there is a hint of narcissism.  He works hard and is successful.

     

    This desire inside me for him is like torture. I have tried reading lots of self-help literature to understand why this is happening and to make sense of why I am behaving like a love struck teenager.  I try and live in the now, but I constantly find myself thinking of him and the way he makes me feel inside.

     

    I go from euphoria to depression. Depends on our interactions, and I remember every single one of them in depth. He came to realise that I wasn’t going for the bait once I found out he was married, so he made out as if he had given up on me. He went cold. This has become the norm of late, hot and cold. When it’s hot, it’s the best feeling in the world. When it’s cold, its awful. However, there are always stolen glances and mild flirting. I feel like I am in love with him. However, how can I be. I don’t know him.

     

    We are not friends, we cannot be lovers. However, each day I see him, I see it as a blessing. My fear is that one of us will move office soon and that will be the last time I see him. I want to see him every single day of my life. Whilst it causes me anxiety, the thought of him not being there, tortures me.

     

    He has been on holiday for the last 3 weeks with his wife and family. Again, he never even told me he was going on holiday. I found out from one of his colleagues after he had left. That made me feel emotional pain too. I am always saying I will move on from this but I am stuck.

     

    I don’t know how to process these feelings.  I’m exhausted from it all.

     

    If anyone has any good advice, please let me now.

     

    Thank you.

    January 2, 2020 at 10:54 am #330797
    Anonymous
    Guest

    First, what Wikipedia says about limerence, second my thoughts.

    Wki: The term limerence was coined by psychologist Dorothy Tennov in her 1997 book Love and Limerence: The Experience of Being in Love. It has been described as being a state of adoration and attachment to a limerent object (LO) involving intrusive and obsessive thoughts, feelings and behaviors from euphoria to despair, contingent on perceived emotional reciprocation. The LO’s attractive characteristics are exaggerated and unattractive characteristics are given little or no attention, similar to  “the bond that exists between an individual and their parents”.

    It is this unfulfilled, intense longing for the other person (the limerent object) which defines limerence, where the individual becomes ‘more or less obsessed by that person and spends much of their time fantasizing about them’. Limerence may only last if conditions for the attraction leave it unfulfilled; therefore, occasional, intermittent reinforcement is required to support underlying feelings… It is the unobtainable nature of the goal hat makes the feeling so powerful.

    Limerence is first and foremost a condition of cognitive obsession. This may be caused by low serotonin levels in the brain, comparable to those people with obsessive-compulsive disorder… The long fantasies form bridges between the limerent’s ordinary life and that intensely desired ecstatic moment… Little things are noticed and endlessly analyzed for meaning.. What the limerent object said and did is recalled with vividness.. Each word and gesture is permanently available for review.. situations are encountered with the limerent object.. are vividly remembered.. those suffering from loneliness are significantly more susceptible to limerence.. By dwelling on the memory of that social contact, the lonely person comes to magnify it into a deep emotional experience, which maybe quite different from the reality of the event.

    The physiological effects of intense limerence can include shortness of breath, perspiration, and heart palpitations… Awkwardness, stuttering, shyness, and confusion predominate at the behavioral level.. Intermittent or nonreciprocal responses lead to labile vacillation between despair and ecstasy

    Awareness of physical attraction plays a key role in the development of limerence, but is not enough to satisfy the limerent desire, and is almost never the main focus.

    * And now my thoughts: what you described fits the term limerence perfectly. I was not familiar with the term until you brought it up today, but I am familiar with the experience in my own life and in others’ lives, I often read about it in these very threads here. People often term this condition “falling in love”, or crushing, getting a crush.

    This condition is born in a childhood where the child is separated from his or her primary caretaker, usually the mother. The separation can be physical, such as in your case, because of divorce and having been “practically raised in boarding school”; it can be the threat of separation such as the mother repeatedly threatening to commit suicide (in my case), it can be an emotional separation where a parent doesn’t care, is emotionally unavailable, or a combination of these.

    You mentioned “violence, threatening behavior etc” in your interactions with your father. When a child experiences aggression and violence, that increases the child’s need to be comforted by a parent.

    For the anxious child, there is no  better feeling than when imagining being togehter with a loving parent. It is a most intense euphoric feeling which motivates the child to do all that she can to reunite with a parent, be it physically and emotionally.

    Fast forward, the child is now a woman, 45, having suffered a year of loss, including the loss of a long term relationship- you are anxious and lonely, like you were as a child, and this “unfulfilled, intense longing” for a parent is revived, a longing for a strong, capable, loving parent.

    Next, a physically attractive, sexy, strong and capable looking Italian man enters your workplace. Your sexual attraction to him pulls with it that deep childhood desire, that intense unfulfilled longing, and the attachment to  this man is formed.

    It is not that the Italian man looks like your father or your mother, not that he acts like any one of them. What makes him such an intense object of attachment to you is your increased of anxiety and loneliness in the last year, and therefore your need for that parent figure to comfort you and take away your fear and loneliness.

    You adore him like a child adores his parent; you see him like a young child sees her parent: “attractive characteristics are exaggerated and unattractive characteristics are given little or no attention”. A child sees her parent/s this way because it makes her feel safe, feeling that she is in good hands, being dependent on the care of strong, capable god-like.

    The child/ teenager feels euphoria as she daydreams about being loved in the context of pure fantasy, using images of movie stars, boys in school.. fast forward, a woman in her forties suffers a difficult year and she is back to fantasy, only this time it is not a movie star or a boy in school, it is a co worker. She obsesses about him, focused on him, her emotional experiences shifts from euphoria (when he smiles at you or flirts with you) and despair (when he is not).

    I will stop her, for now. Maybe you have thoughts about what I wrote here that you would like to share. If you do, please do share and I will  be glad to continue to communicate with you.

    anita

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by tinybuddha. Reason: Removed name, per poster's request
    January 2, 2020 at 12:35 pm #330825
    Tortured Soul
    Participant

    Dear Anita

    Thank you for your considered response.  I can relate to most of Wiki says. It’s a crazy rollercoaster.

    Please erase my name for protection. I feel paranoid someone may figure out who I am.

    These are the quotes that stand out to me:

    It is the unobtainable nature of the goal that makes the feeling so powerful.

    That’s worrying. It feels so powerful. It can be overwhelming.  It makes me feel alive.

    Those suffering from loneliness are significantly more susceptible to limerence… By dwelling on the memory of that social contact, the lonely person comes to magnify it into a deep emotional experience, which may be quite different from the reality of the event.

    I was very lonely at the time. This was impacted by the fact my boss and colleagues weren’t around most the time. Also, obviously going through what was happening at home.  If it wasn’t for the signals this man keeps giving me (with his eyes), I tend to flit between “is this all in my head” to “I bet he has no idea how I feel”.  I’m not sure if he even knows my name.  You see – reality vs fantasy.

    You say that “this condition is born in a childhood where the child is separated from his or her primary caretaker, usually the mother”.

    I was placed into boarding school at age 6 and remained there almost my entire schooling. I still remember the trauma of my first day there when my mother prepared to leave me as if it was yesterday. I recall being very distressed and crying and my mother eventually just left me with one of the teachers.  One thing me and my sisters I suffer from is separation anxiety.

    My mother never had a mother. She was shunted from one relative to the other when her mother died at age 5.  She always said it was her responsibility to raise us and ensure that we could fend for ourselves. She did that quite well. There wasn’t much affection though.  I don’t doubt that she loves us but she has her own demons. She has the mentality that, what she doesn’t know can’t harm her.

    When I got to my teens, I started rebelling at school and was expelled numerous times. I was the rebel, allegedly without a cause.  To a certain degree, I am still the rebel without a cause. Although, I have tried to improve my life and studied late in life and became a professional.  When I was 15, I had a 21 year old boyfriend. My brothers found out and went and warned him off. The guy never wanted to see him again.  My mother called my father and told him that I was out of control. She never used to ring him for anything but for some reason she did that time.  He got on the first plane to our house and came to speak to me. Although his intention was never to speak. He started by beating the hell out of me. Full face punches etc.  The most traumatic memory of that experience was that my 2 brothers, who I trusted and got on with very well, shut the door and let him do that to me.  The only person who came to help me was one of my sisters, that I am not even close with. They pushed her out the room and let him continue to beat me.  The next day, he drove me to school 3 hours away. I was battered and bruised and he didn’t seem to care.  I recall crying at nothing for weeks after that. Then I got expelled from school again.  I was then forced to go live with him for 6 months so I could go to a school in another state.  That lasted 6 months. I never forgave my brothers for what happened that day. My relationship with them to this day is civil.  The next day, my mother felt terrible and tried to apologise to me saying she didn’t expect that to happen. I remember saying to her “what did you expect”.  Seeing her feeling remorse made me forgive her.

    My childhood is full of trauma.  I thought it was normal. My sister was abused by an uncle. She fell pregnant. Had the baby in boarding school.

    None of my parents ever comforted me. I still haven’t really experienced that in any of the significant relationships I have had. In fact, I am always the driving force. Once I feel I am not getting what I put in, I start withdrawing. I have not been with someone more intelligent than me before. Not that any of my ex’s were not intelligent. It’s just something I’ve been thinking of lately.  Nobody ever really guides me. I am a product of my boarding school upbringing. Made to be super independent and now men can’t generally handle that. I think I see in the Italian someone with the strength to handle me. I see some of myself in him. He’s strong and bossy. Takes control. We are both vulnerable for different reasons. He told me one day that he was feeling overwhelmed and in that second, it made me think, this is something that is attracting us to each other. It was also in that instant, I felt like I fell in love with him. I don’t know what’s going on in his life or why this is happening but I don’t think he’s taking steps to leave his wife and children and I wouldn’t want him to do that for me. I would want him to do that for him. Once he is free, nothing would stop me.  See, I am about to flit into fantasy land.

    You mentioned “violence, threatening behavior etc” in your interactions with your father. When a child experiences aggression and violence, that increases the child’s need to be comforted by a parent.

    I always refer to my birth father as “a gun toting psychopath”, which he is. High on the narcissism scale.  Violent bully whose mother enabled him by treating him as if he was God. Entitled and selfish and who never gave a damn about the 5 children he created.  The Italian always refers to his children with love. I wonder if it’s a signal as to why he stays with his wife.  He never speaks about his wife. Not that we have spoken that much.  I always think that his children are so lucky to have him. He’s so strong and dynamic and clearly loves them a lot. You see him softening up when he talks about his children.  I would hate to be instrumental in splitting up a family but I also have this crazy desire that I am trying to deal with.  I never had any comfort from anyone growing up really. My older sister was like my mother in boarding school and is the most important person in my life today. Although, she lives in our home country, we communicate daily. She does not know about my limerence with this man. She would not understand. She has been with her husband for so many years and the relationship is positively toxic. She stays for the sake of the kids but there is no love or respect, just a comfortable lifestyle.  I always vowed I would never live my life that way.

    Fast forward, the child is now a woman, 45, having suffered a year of loss, including the loss of a long term relationship- you are anxious and lonely, like you were as a child, and this “unfulfilled, intense longing” for a parent is revived, a longing for a strong, capable, loving parent.

    I get what you are saying but, if I never had comfort from either parent (or anyone really), then how can I long for something never had?

    Next, a physically attractive, sexy, strong and capable looking Italian man enters your workplace. Your sexual attraction to him pulls with it that deep childhood desire, that intense unfulfilled longing, and the attachment to this man is formed.

    There is definitely an unfulfilled longing. I have thought that many times.  For me, it was the fact I wasn’t getting what I wanted from my husband and I saw no way out at the time. I did not want to live my life in a toxic relationship.  I wonder what it is in me that the Italian is attracted to. I think, the mutual vulnerability whilst appearing strong and in control. I also think the fact I am independent.  I also wonder though if in his head, this could be just another potential fling for him. He seems to have that effect on woman.  Women go weak at the knees for him. I suspect he is a player. I may be wrong. It’s all speculation and part of my obsessive thoughts.  I hope I am wrong. I will never know. I wish I didn’t care. All this energy wasted on someone who may or may not even know my name.

    What makes him such an intense object of attachment to you is your increased of anxiety and loneliness in the last year, and therefore your need for that parent figure to comfort you and take away your fear and loneliness.

    You adore him like a child adores his parent; you see him like a young child sees her parent: “attractive characteristics are exaggerated and unattractive characteristics are given little or no attention”. A child sees her parent/s this way because it makes her feel safe, feeling that she is in good hands, being dependent on the care of strong, capable god-like.

    I adore him. He can do no wrong. Yet I am fully aware that a married man should not be giving another woman signals. I struggle to internalise or see any of his bad points and even if I do, I overlook them.  Fantasy land.  I want him to protect me too. He has before. Always subtle ways.  Did I mention that if he sees me with another man, he seems to get territorial and what I think is jealousy. He cannot take his eyes off the person.  If someone is in my office, he struts about curious as to what is going on. He will then smile at me and make intense eye contact. I feel as if I cannot imagine myself with anyone else. My heart is with him.

     

    I think I am self aware, although it has been suggested whilst doing research, that 2 people who are limerent for each other have no awareness.

     

    I keep hoping that I will wake up one day soon and the feeling will be gone. This situation is doing nothing for my emotional progress.  I am aware that I latch on to this fantasy world to escape the reality. It feels good most of the time.  I want it to stop/I don’t want it to stop. How do I snap out of this?

     

    Thank you

    January 2, 2020 at 1:18 pm #330829
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Tortured Soul:

    I posted to you earlier before you changed your screen name. I am a member here, like you, and I can’t change the name I addressed you as in my first post to you. You can contact the owner of the site (“contact” above) for any concerns you have regarding anonymity. I imagine the chances someone who knows your name will read the forums here and will identify you are extremely slim.

    I read just a  bit of your recent post and will read and reply when I am back to the computer within a few hours from now.

    anita

    January 2, 2020 at 1:43 pm #330831
    Tortured Soul
    Participant

    Thank you Anita for taking the time to listen and provide your perspective. It’s really appreciated.

    January 2, 2020 at 2:30 pm #330835
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Tortured Soul:

    You are welcome. There is more in your recent post than what I will be responding to in this post, but if we continue to communicate, we will eventually address all that you want to address.

    I wrote to you: “this ‘unfulfilled, intense longing’ for a parent is revived, a longing for a strong capable, loving parent”, and you asked me: “if I never had comfort from either parents (or anyone really), then how can I long for something never had?”

    My answer:  you did experience a bit of comfort from at least one of your parents: if your mother fed you a few times, held you, changed you, clothed you- this is comfort for the baby/ young child that you were. Plus we, humans are born with a craving for our parent, whomever it is who is there to feed us, keep us warm and alive.

    Your story of your brothers telling your mother about you having a 21 year old boyfriend when you were 15, and her calling your father who came over and beat you so terribly while your brothers cooperated with the beating, is a terrible story of violence and betrayal. You then wrote that your mother regretted having called him. But did I understand correctly, that after her expressed regret, she has sent you to live with this violent man for six months?

    anita

    January 2, 2020 at 3:44 pm #330843
    Tortured Soul
    Participant

    We were poor. I had run out of options of going to school in the state i was in – it was a desperate move.  I see your point though.

    January 2, 2020 at 5:53 pm #330855
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Tortured Soul:

    When we grow up with parents that fail us, we idolize them, at least one of them, because we need to believe that someone loves us, that someone will protect us. So we make believe our parent loves us and protects us, when she does not. As we become adults we idolize other people, seeing them as loving and protective when they are not.

    Notice how you idolize this man, how you indeed exaggerate his attractive characteristics and give little to no attention to his unattractive characteristics: “I adore him. He can do no wrong… I struggle to internalize or see any of his bad points and even if I do, I overlook them. Fantasy land”.

    And you do the same regarding your mother:  “My mother.. She is remarkable. Not perfect but a strong character. She did the best she could to take care of us, even though some of my siblings may disagree”.

    When your mother she saw you “battered and bruised” by your father, and following that she sent you to live with him for six months, she was not a remarkable person or a remarkable mother. Neither was she a strong character, because if she was, she wouldn’t have sent a teenage girl to live with a violent grown up man. Endangering her daughter’s physical safety wouldn’t have been the best she could do for her daughter.

    Notice how you imagine that this man cares for you: “I want him to protect me too. He has before. Always subtle ways.. if he sees me with anther man, he seems to get territorial.. He cannot take his eyes off the person… he struts about curious as to what is going on”-

    – strutting about is not protecting. And when he disappears for weeks, going on vacations with his family,  he doesn’t let you know; he doesn’t seem to mind that he will not be present to strut about near you.

    And you do the same thing regarding your mother, you imagine that she cared for you and protected you: “She always said it was her responsibility to raise us and ensure that we could fend for ourselves. She did that quite well.. I don’t doubt that she loves me”.

    But how can a teenage girl fend for herself living with a violent grown man, how is that being responsible on her part, how is it her doing quite well as a mother.

    Our mental health has to do with us seeing reality as it is. When we don’t see our childhood as it really was, when we imagine that our parents were responsible and loving and remarkable when they were far from it, we proceed as adults to see other people not as they are.

    It is difficult to separate reality from fantasy when it comes to our troubled childhoods. Isn’t it?

    anita

    January 3, 2020 at 4:17 am #330921
    Tortured Soul
    Participant

    Hi Anita

    Aren’t all families dysfunctional? If I kept reliving the trauma of my childhood, it would not serve me. What’s done is done. Thanks for your perspective. Appreciated.

     

    January 3, 2020 at 7:10 am #330929
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Tortured Soul:

    I think that most, if not all families are dysfunctional which makes the whole world as dysfunctional as it is.

    “What’s done is done” but what’s done, is kept being done to us for as long as we don’t understand well enough what it is that was done. For example: a parent yells at a young child repeatedly through the years: you are useless, you can’t do anything right! The child believes his parent is wonderful and can’t be wrong. Many years later, the child is an adult, the parent is dead, but the child still believes his parents was wonderful and couldn’t have been wrong, and the same words (italicized) keep replaying in the now-adult’s brain, causing him the same old, same old anxiety and depression in daily life.

    “If I kept reliving the trauma of my childhood, it would not serve me”- not unless you learn. In the above example, it would mean that the adult needs to learn that his parent could have been wrong, and could have been not so wonderful, maybe even cruel. It is then that the adult can consider: maybe I was not useless, maybe I can do things right, maybe I am capable after all!

    But I do understand that this kind of learning is a painful process. I am still learning myself.

    You are welcome, thank you for your appreciation, and if you want to post again, here on your thread, or start a new thread with a new topic, please do, and I will be glad to reply to you again.

    anita

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