Love is..?

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This topic has 7 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 9 months ago by Ryan Viola.

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March 4, 2014 at 1:11 am #52229

Gavin
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Why is it that the more I read in the various blogs in here, the less point there seems to be to the notion of relational love, even though it ostensibly sits at the heart of the matter? Or perhaps more pointedly there seems to be a stubborn contradiction between the ideas of romantic loving relationships and the inner peace, which seems to be the key to getting to your authentic self. Does acceptance and loving of the self within inevitably ensure that any love between two people is even less likely to emerge or be fulfilling? Is this what we’re ultimately aiming at? Isn’t that going to craft a horrible state of existence, to put ourselves in a place where we can pretty much risk denying our need for physical connection because we’re all just so happy and blissfully wrapped up in the business of loving ourselves to the point that we don’t need anyone else to love us?

March 4, 2014 at 2:54 am #52233
The Ruminant
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I have couple of books on mature romantic love, but haven’t read them yet, so I’ll need to give my uncultured thoughts on the matter 🙂

I see immature romantic love as clinging onto something external that is supposed to provide for our needs. We become obsessed and addicted to the source that sometimes gives us pleasure and other times gives us pain. How to control it and always get pleasure? We can’t so it’s an endless source of frustration and fascination.

I see mature love as accepting that the other person’s value does not come from what they can provide for me, but who they are as a different person with different needs and thoughts and ways of seeing and doing things. I don’t need them to fulfil a void or to validate my existence. I appreciate their companionship and care and love. Besides, if we are both already filled with love and then love each other on top of that, how joyous would that be?
- This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by The Ruminant.
March 4, 2014 at 4:30 am #52240
Gavin
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Your definition of mature love is exactly the ticket. I have no illusions as to the differences between romantic (Hollywood) and mature (real world) love – what I do worry about is that having achieved a mature love, it might leave people more individually satiated but ultimately more disconnected – if I might extend the metaphor a little I worry that we would end up more Borg like; content to live but empty between one another, or am I simply experiencing a sense of mature love without any notion of receiving love back? It seems as though as society stands at the moment it’s become a case of almost self sacrifice, since there seem to be many people still locked into this Hollywood notion of love rather than reciprocal love from an authentic self.. Isn’t this just going to result in a few empty souls bumping into lots of people living with illusion? What happens when you get to the end of your life not having known any love in return for your own selfless acts of kindness? Surely without a mass adoption of authentic self love and selfless giving of love, there is nothing but a bittersweet flavour awaiting us on our deathbeds? I’m not sure how I’ve come to perceive matters of authentic self, self respect and mature love in this fashion..
- This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Gavin.
March 4, 2014 at 6:06 am #52244

The Ruminant
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Yes, that is a rather bleak view of the world 🙂 I don’t share your view, but I think I might understand it. I went through something like that some time ago.

As a disclaimer, I’ll say that I’m not a Buddhist, nor do I follow any other religion, nor am I an atheist. I examine and listen and observe and come up with my own view of the world, which I know is never going to be complete nor can it be the absolute truth. In my current view, we’re not supposed to be completely free of fear or needs (physical, emotional). That would indeed make us very non-human. It’s more about finding balance and being compassionate and reasonable. I think it is tempting to use the learned mature skills as self-defence. “I’m loving and compassionate towards myself and others so I don’t need anyone and I can never get hurt.” That would indeed lead to an interesting situation with no true intimacy. Intimacy requres vulnerability and if you think that you’re some sort of enlightened superhuman, you can’t be vulnerable. The general you, not you you 🙂

As for selfless acts of kindness without receiving love back… I’m somewhat skeptical about such situations. Codependents think that they are being completely unselfish and then act as martyrs. Again, not talking about you personally 🙂 To receive love requires humility and vulnerability. To take a leap, and why would you do that, if you’ve found this great way to emerge yourself in love all by yourself. Some choose not to, and go to a monastery. I personally would rather experience the thrill.

March 4, 2014 at 6:14 am #52245

sandra
Participant

Reading this dialogue brings a quote to mind so i will share and hope it inspires you as much as it has inspired me.

“Life will break you. Nobody can protect you from that, and living alone won’t either, for solitude will also break you with its yearning. You have to love. You have to feel. It is the reason you are here on earth. You are here to risk your heart. You are here to be swallowed up. And when it happens that you are broken, or betrayed, or left, or hurt, or death brushes near, let yourself sit by an apple tree and listen to the apples falling all around you in heaps, wasting their sweetness. Tell yourself you tasted as many as you could.”

― Louise Erdrich, The Painted Drum LP

March 4, 2014 at 7:45 am #52246
Gavin
Participant
Fortunately I choose to feel, but I was curious/dismayed about the theological implications of how it might work. I do think though that by “almost falling into the metaphorical pit” as it were, it HAS shed light on how full Buddhists logically become monks. Again, fortunately I elect to live by Buddhist principles rather than throwing myself into the whole lifestyle (beside which I’m rather partial to my hair as it is, in I have to admit a narcissistic Tony Stark kinda way).

Thank you for your reflections upon the matter Ruminant, and thank you Sandra for that fab quote! 🙂
- This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Gavin.
March 4, 2014 at 9:19 pm #52297

The Ruminant
Participant

To be fair, pretty much all established religions will attract people who want to perfect themselves and/or the world. It’s not necessarily the fault of the religion, but how it’s used.

Also, logic kind of seeks the perfect solution to a problem, but that’s where we start to go from being human to being a robot. So if you approach a subject like that logically, you will end up in a solution that isn’t very human. Logic discounts feelings, which are another important part of us. So you would have to approach the issue, not only through logic, but with…understanding? Humility? I’m not sure what would be the right word for that.

This actually just came to me as I was writing and it’s interesting, as I had been thinking about something similar before. About how difficult it is to keep your ego out of things, or not to be too analytical. How else do we comprehend these things than through that part of the brain, but then that’s where the “bad stuff” starts to happen as well. Something that was meant to be as a solution all of a sudden becomes a problem again and we’re out of balance again.

March 6, 2014 at 2:00 am #52365

Ryan Viola
Participant

Loving ourselves is completely appreciable. But involving other person in your life and get support and love for ourselves then it will give some different relief and calmness in life. I always follow : Live life for ourselves, for others and for work and for family forever.
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