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  • #120254
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica and calisister:

    Your mother is currently insane. The two of you, Cali Chica’s future husband, parents in law, other current and future family members, guests invited to the engagement party, are all getting on that insanity train at different stops, getting off at this or that stop and then getting on it again.

    Who is at the wheel? Your mother. Your father is next to her, the compliant co-driver.

    What is the reasonable, sane thing for the two of you to do, in these circumstances? It can’t be to continue as is, going on and off the train. It just can’t be the sane thing to do.

    If there is a legal way to stop the train, then do that: if there is a way to force your mother to be hospitalized for evaluation and possible treatment, do that. If she refuses hospitalization, forcing her would involve the police, if legally possible.

    If you can’t legally stop the train, that is, she refuses hospitalization and she cannot legally be forced to be hospitalized, then the two of you need to stop getting on that train and stay outside of that train, on stable ground, safe yourselves. Cali Chica, you owe it to your future husband, his parents and family, to highly recommend that they get off the train and stay off.

    The two of you, really, have to stop accommodating your mother’s insanity.

    The trip to India reads to me like a planned disaster and so does any and all involvement of your mother in your life.

    A family meeting is a good idea, only one that does not include your mother. If your father is indeed submissive to your mother, then the meeting needs to be without the two of them. Facts have to be presented as they are: your mother is insane. Now what do we do? Make it a group process of thinking and executing a plan.

    For crying out loud, Cali Chica and calisister, get off the train, stay off, call a family meeting not involving your mother, and make a sane plan.

    anita

    #125420
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita and Tiny Buddha fellow supporters,

    I know it has been a while since I have posted on here. Your posts and ideas are with me everyday – and as hard as it has been, I am able to now see clarity in what is right and wrong – and what toxic really is.

    Something I do struggle with is, in the case of my mother she truly does have a mental disorder whether it be a personality disorder or something else – there is this component. She has no insight into her flaws or issues, like many “mothers with narcissistic personality disorder.” Regardless of how it is classified – I do know in many ways she is blind and has no insight. So at times my sister and I struggle, that if she doesn’t even know what she is doing – how do we process that? Sure we have tried and tried and tried and made ourselves sick and crazy by trying to explain things to her to no avail. I do see it doesn’t MATTER if what she is doing is on purpose or not, because if the outcome is that it has made us unhappy and miserable – that is what matters. However, just wanted to get your thoughts on this.

    #125422
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    This is amazing- I thought about you (and your sister) only last night, was wondering what is going on.

    You wrote: “…if she doesn’t even know what she is doing – how do we process that?”

    I just read my last post to you, above, and I addressed this. I am trying to understand your struggle here… you already did your best trying to explain to her and failed. You and your sister are intelligent enough, so I am sure you did a good job explaining to her and the failure to understand is all hers.

    Are you struggling with the ethics of this, that is, if she has no insight, is she guilty? If this is your struggle, then it is a theoretical struggle. Guilt or innocence of the kind you are wondering about, is not yours to determine. It is too vague. If there was a heaven or hell; a nirvana or rebirth, then it would be up to that imagined entity to decide on such an ethical question.

    For the purpose of living on this Earth, this life, such a question is not relevant, neither are you (or me) equipped to answer it. For the purpose of this life, this reality, she is guilty and she should be stopped.

    You, your sister; your husband (to be, I understand) do not deserve to suffer this unnecessary suffering. You will have your share of … necessary suffering- remove what is not necessary.

    Again, for the purpose of this living, when a person harms another, the harm is done regardless of the insight of the one doing the harming. You did all you can to bring insight to the one doing the harming. It didn’t work. You can’t make her stop harming you. So what do you do? Let her continue to harm you?

    If you do let her continue to harm you and others, then you are joining the insanity of it all, aren’t you?

    anita

    #125434
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Thank you – this was the exact thing I was looking to read. I like how you explain that this question of guilt or innocence is a theoretical one. It reminds me in a way that we are so small in the universe, and that this thought is sometimes to reassuring. It is not MY job/struggle/responsibility to determine say if someone is guilty or blameworthy for bad behavior and should be “charged/looked at” in that way.
    That in a way does remove burden off of my sister and I as well (as long as we remind ourselves of this).

    I am happy to hear you were just thinking of us. As above, we always carry your wisdom with us. So in short since we last wrote – as expected things have gotten worse and worse. I found myself at rock bottom and in a place that it was destroying me, and feeling the true signs of depression. This of course not only affects me, but also my fiance (who is now currently struggling himself – a grounded happy person now torn by this too of course).

    I have not talked to my mother in 3 weeks. It started off as a normal conversation 3 weeks ago before Xmas, and then when my sister went over to my parents on Xmas day they were: cold, icy, and almost ignored her. My sister and I were invited to my fiances Xmas party with his family, and my mother knew this. (During thanksgiving she RUINED our holiday because when she found out I would stop by at my future in laws last minute prior to arriving home she felt it was rude it was last minute and it was just because my future MIL was trying to lure me in last minute and has no regards for my and my fiance’s space).
    So when Xmas came around I had made it a point to my mother that i would not allow this same thing to happen again. I decided I wasn’t going to go home to my parents house for Xmas at all – and only go to my fiances family’s party. This took a lot for me, and I felt extremely guilty – but I also felt that I deserved to enjoy this holiday in peace, and I knew that if I avoided going home I would have peace so I should ALLOW myself that.
    My sister did go home as I wrote above, and they projected their anger towards me onto her and were very cold and odd. They, by the way, are also convinced that I and my fiances family are also brainwashing my sister against them.

    I sent my parents a Merry Xmas text that day, no response. My sister told me how odd they were being while she was there – so I had an idea that something bad was brewing. Needless to say it is 3 weeks later. She called me on Thursday (a few days ago). I for the first time in my life allowed myself to make a choice of whether I should pick up. I texted her I would call her back, to which I got a barrage of questioning: what time, why so late?, ok fine then just call later. From assertive questioning to the old “ok fine if you don’t have time for your mother it’s fine.”

    My mother proceeded to then call my sister. It goes sommething like this: how are you? my sister answers and then she totally cuts her off and starts hysterically: 19 DAYS 19 days what did i do so wrong for my own daughter to not talk to me for 19 days.
    we know its HIM (fiance) brainwashing her not to talk to us – well in that case she shouldnt talk to his parents either
    our own daughter we raised for 31 years now turned against us.
    she then proceeded to say how shes told all my aunts and uncles how horrible ive become and abandoned her own parents who have given everything for her – and tells my sister, all aunts and uncles are on their side and are saying “wow what an ungrateful daughter”
    my sister mentions well maybe its not him who is MAKING her not talk to youu – maybe its her decision, after all she is an adult. MY mother could absolutely not fathom that – to this she responded: “well why would your sister not want to talk to us on her own.”

    After I heard this, I felt an even deeper sense of not wanting to speak to her…NO desire to call her back.

    #125436
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    You feel guilty in regard to your mother- that is unjustified guilt. Justified guilt is over hurting yourself and your fiancé, as well as your future children, who will suffer for the suffering your mother is and will be causing their parents (you and your fiancé).

    You don’t have a mother; you have an enemy.

    She phrased it that way multiple times. Again: you do not have a mother; you have an enemy.

    Stop trying to please the enemy- do what needs to be done when faced with an active enemy- withdraw from the war, and that means, in your circumstances, nothing short of zero contact, no contact whatsoever.

    anita

    #388349
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    I can not believe this was 5 years ago literally almost to the day. I thank this community for the support I received, especially Anita. So much has changed in the last 5 years yet so much is still the same. How interesting this journey of trauma, awareness and healing is for so many of us.

    #388350
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    A thrill to read from you on this thread, tomorrow will be 4 years and 10 months since you and I posted here last. Let’s keep talking here (I will be back to the computer in about 16 hours from now).

    anita

    #388390
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    We communicated massively in a total of 182 pages in six of the threads that you started, the first being on July 11, 2016. You wrote yesterday, Nov 8, 2021 (in an email, after a long time of no contact): “I say ‘yes mother see, I told you I wouldn’t leave you – that I wouldn’t be like those others and leave my mom and be HAPPY!! See I am still loyal.. don’t worry I’m not one of THEM happy and away from you, I’m still loyal.. As soon as something becomes good, calm, happy – the daughter subconsciously finds a way to remind herself and (subconscious mother) that in fact things are not ‘good’ so don’t worry I’m the same – I’m still suffering, I’m still ‘unlucky’ don’t worry I’m loyal to the misery – I will never leave ‘you“-

    And loyal you are. In your very first post on July 11, 2016, you shared: “I dated someone for 7 years high school -through college, to about 22, first love, who was truly the perfect guy for me in every way possible – yet at that young age I let him go, due to lack of appreciation.. no true issues“- during that first relationship, you reminded yourself that indeed things are not good, and you focused on what was missing in that “perfect guy”.

    You continued on that same first post: “fast forward to 2 years ago, I met my now fiance..  truly a dedicated, devoted loving guy with a heart of gold.. but in the back of my mind I would be bothered every once in a while by old thoughts of it was right… am I settling?.. here right in front of me I have a WONDERFUL man that I am not appreciating at current“- again, you kept reminding yourself that indeed things are not good, and you focused on what was missing in this dedicated, devoted, loving, wonderful guy with a heart of gold, now husband.

    November 9-10, 2016, at the age of 31,  you shared: “My mom has had a tough life.. Treated really poorly..  shunned, ridiculed, and harassed .. she truly suffered… around my teens I started realizing..  I had an affinity to overanalyze, fixate, and create a lot of burden of guilt on myself…  I feel it was engrained in my whole childhood to ‘feel bad’ I always recall feeling, wow how sad my mom’s life was.. why did people do this to her?… During this time too I noticed how negative she had made me.. I felt disappointed constantly, birthdays as a teenager I found myself focusing more on ‘who wasn’t there for me’ than the celebration or party at hand… I always went along with the well of course I’m miserable – xyz happened, of course I’m sad, this person did this…When i close my eyes I think of my mom as a damaged soul, a sad and abused (so to speak) fragile puppy“.

    July 27-28, 2017: “There are some days where I have an ‘aha’ moment and say – wow okay that’s why I always felt disappointed with friends in high school, or wait that’s why I always perceived it to be my fault – because I am hard wired to think of the bad, to blame myself, and to take things as a personal attack… I am wired for negativity..  for example a friend being flakey leads to anxiety and internal negativity all day… now you may say – so don’t talk to your mom.  Well, the thing is, let’s put my mom on Mars. I still have me. and because I have a propensity to think and feel this way myself – the problem still remains…  It’s like if 40 people come to your event, you fixate on the one that flaked… I guess the theme is simply focusing outward not inward, focusing on the less important things and people instead of the most valuable.  having a great abundant life, but being unable to find true happiness as the mind wanders to what is ‘not there‘”.

    January 4, 2018: “why do I let others have so much power over me, even if it isn’t something they are doing that’s personal (such as my rumination over a friend who has been flaky/not as responsive).  or why can’t I do a better job of shining that light..  to my whole happy life where I have so, so much good“?

    Back to today, Nov 9, 2021: I just took a walk in the cold and asked myself: why is Cali Chica still wired for negativity today, Nov 8, 2021, more than 4 years after you titled one of your threads “Wired for negativity“? And it occurred to me that although you are aware of a lot of things, you are not adequately aware of two things (1) you still believe that your mother loved you and that she loves you still, (2) you still love her back. Believing in these two things, you are still on her side, still wired for negativity.

    You wrote yesterday: “So much has changed in the last 5 years yet so much is still the same..  I am at the phase where I notice that NC or not, I still have loyalty to the monster, the mother“- what is still the same is #1 and 2 above. Look at the title of this very thread that you chose to resurrect only yesterday: “Loving but toxic parents“, let’s break the title a bit: “Loving.. parents“, and since the most powerful of your parents in your life has been your mother, let’s edit the title to: Loving Mother. Fast forward since that thread, you still believe today that she loves you, and.. you love her back.

    On June 19, 2019, in a post to you I wrote to you and quoted from you in regard to an inner child exercise we did: “I.. asked you: ‘Your mother loves you, she wants you to be lucky, she wants you to be happy?’ You answered: ‘Yes so very much, she dedicates her life to me“.

    The part of you who still loves your mother now (the child within you, aka the inner child) loved her before you ever came up with the terms you use for her: pathological, toxic, mentally ill, Narcissistic, monster, etc. This part is not impressed and not at all affected by the terms you use for her.. or by our long communication over the years. In that same June 19, 2019 post, I quoted you saying: “I..  was a blinded saint/devotee to my mother for many years“- part of you is still blind and still a saint/ devotee to your mother.

    Your love for her is like GLUE that glues your wiring to negativity ongoing.

    On June 25, 2019, you wrote about your mother: “she values no one.  not me, not my sister, not my husband… it is not a human, it is a monster with no value“- part of you came with this understanding, but the child in you is not at all impressed by this understanding, still believing that her mother loves her, still loving her back.. loyal.

    This brings me to myself: I still hold on to some of what my mother taught me, things that are raining on my parade of life, so to speak, making me annoyed and miserable to some extent or another, teachings like: when you (anita) give to others, you are taking away from me! This is still keeping me from being as generous and as connected to others as I would like to be. I mean, it will make me happy to be more connected to people, but I keep hearing her voice, saying that I will be betraying her if I connect to others.. so loyal to her still, I keep my distance from others.

    And so, even though I did not see her since May 2012, I think it was, did not talk to her on the phone since March 2013.. I still hear her voice, I still want to please her.. still loyal. The child within me survived all of my therapy of 2011-13, all of my MASSIVE writings in these forums since May 2015…  still feeling the way she always have.

    She still  NEEDS to feel that her mother loves her, that her mother wants what’s best for anita-the-child. Child-anita cannot stomach the idea that her mother does not love her, it is unacceptable! She rejects the idea.. why, of course my mother loves me. anita-the-child has to believe this because to believe otherwise, is a death sentence for a child.

    And so, I am taking this opportunity, this Tuesday afternoon, to tell the child within me: it is okay to understand that she doesn’t love us, that she never did. We will not die for it.. we lived so far without her love. I want you to understand that she never loved you so that you can let go of what she taught you, so that you are no longer loyal to what she told you. Look, child-anita, if she loved you, she would have noticed you.. she would have noticed how lonely you were, how anxious.. how much you needed her, and she would have made the sincere effort to love you, if not by feeling love for you, then by behaving in ways that would have helped you. She behaved in ways that hurt you, repeatedly so, no regret.. never an apology, never an effort to .. stop hurting you.

    I know that she seemed sometimes like she had love for you, but it was not a deep feeling on her part.. it was a superficial affection like for a puppy that crossed her way one day..  and her enjoyment of you…. it was like the enjoyment of eating a cake.. nothing deep, nothing lasting.

    It is easier, Cali Chica, to stop loving a person when you truly understand.. deeply understand, or at least, when you are being open to truly understand that the person you loved all these years, never loved you back. It is when we keep believing that she loved us.. that we keep being invested in getting more of that (non-existent) love.. loyal to her still.. while all along, really.. there was no love on her part. The proof is in the pudding, really.. look inside yourself.. where is that alleged love of hers.. what of it is left in you.. I mean, you don’t feel loved or loving, do you.

    Read above your great empathy for her, intense lasting empathy.. where is her empathy. You wrote, “I felt disappointed constantly, birthdays as a teenager I found myself focusing more on ‘who wasn’t there for me'”– your mother wasn’t there for you. “(I) rumination over a friend who has been flaky/not as responsive”- Maybe the flaky friends you repeatedly focused on, on many, many occasions- all represent your flaky mother.. who appeared to love you.. and then flaked out.

    anita

     

     

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by .
    #388420
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    Continuing the topic of “Loving but toxic parents“, focusing on your mother as the parent much more powerful of the two, in your mind heart and life, let’s look at her LOVE for you: in Jan 4, 2018- what seems to me like the good old days, more than two years before the pandemic, you wrote: “I have been having a great deal of insomnia over the last few days… feeling overwhelmed with crippling anxiety and here I am at 1 AM unable to sleep feeling as tense as possible“- this is the experience of the unloved, anxious child, fast forwarded to adulthood. That was me, as a child and teenager, insomniac, overwhelmed with crippling anxiety, tense, unable to sleep.

    As a sidenote.. my mother projected all of her issues outside of herself. Growing up what we had was never enough it was always looking at what other people had… Example that sticks out in my mind is being at Disney World at the age of 10 or so.. . I remember we were posing for a picture and a classic picturesque Disney World moment. My mom looks to the side and sees a family abundant with many family members 10 or 15 or so and says to us, wow are they so lucky they have such a huge family here with them wouldn’t that be nice“-

    – it is a major note in your life, not a side note: that for your mother you, Cali Chica,  were never enough, that she looked at other people, and to the side, not at you who were standing right there in front of her, seeing her as the center of your life, as your Everything, while she did not even consider herself lucky for having you.

    Lets fast forward 111 pages of you-and-I going back and forth, to June 27, 2019, to our inner-child exercise, you wrote about your parents: “they always tell me everything, like oh your aunt did this and they did that…. just listen to them. and then sometimes they say oh we are so lucky our daughter is listening good“-

    – your mother did not listen to you, your experience was not important to her. It is no wonder that you lived a life where you listen to others.. not to yourself.

    Fast forward to January 22, 2020, you wrote: “It is official! We are moving to California!!“, and on Jan 28, 2020 (your last post on tiny buddha before your return on Nov 7, 2021): “we are moving out of nyc on Friday!“- again, that was before the pandemic was a thing in the U.S. I think that you came up with the user name “Cali Chica” because California has been a dream destination for some time. But in California, where you currently live and work, things haven’t really changed, have they.  November 7, 2021, you wrote: “So much has changed in the last 5 years yet so much is still the same” –

    – Still the same unloved Cali Chica… not having it within her to love herself.

    Remember the acronym SCC, standing for Super Cali Chica- it’s about how you developed your strong and persistent role of being Super, the Best, on Top, so to be enough for your mother to consider herself being lucky for having you as her daughter. That Super Role, SCC, has hardened you, preventing you from allowing yourself to hold in awareness how weak you feel inside, for having been unloved by your mother for so long. Your husband, he is simply not important enough for you to his love as something valuable enough.

    You still need to be loved from this one little person (4 feet or so?)- your mother: contact or no-contact, on Mars or on Earth.. is it so?

    A daughter of a medical doctor father, married to a surgeon, being a medical doctor yourself… your sister being a PhD pharmacist, quite impressive.. yet, what is Life without Love…?

    anita

     

     

    #388489
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    We’ve been communicating some on email and currently you are busy in your private life, but.. I am not as busy and so, I want to continue to develop the theme of Love which I mentioned last in my post above, and which is relevant to a thread that’s titled: “loving but toxic parents” .

    Let’s look for Love in your original post of this thread posted on Nov 9, 2016: five years and three days ago, when you were 31. It starts with:  “I have a difficult time speaking bad about my parents“, and you proceeded to talk about your mother very empathetically:  “My mom has had a tough life..  she REALLY did try.. As a housewife she faced a lot of loneliness her whole life.. I always recall feeling, wow how sad my mom’s life was.. why did people do this to her?.. always feeling worried that she was lonely, or is she happy?“.

    Because Empathy=Love, in the above you expressed lots of Love for your mother, love you felt for her since you were a child (“always recall feeling..”)

    Continued: “it was engrained in my whole childhood to ‘feel bad’… we are fortunate enough for tons of travel, and for my mom to have the liberty to plan very wonderful vacations.. so many comments throughout about “oh no one else’s parents takes them on trips like this, you guys have no appreciation, etc.” but then the next morning say oh you know moms say that when they get angry, you can’t take it all personal.. ‘all mother’s act like this’“-

    – Based on the above quote alone, I will state the obvious (as children of any age.. we ignore the obvious when it comes to our mothers): (1) When FEELING BAD is engrained in a child, the person doing the ingraining (to ingrain: to firmly fix or establish a habit, belief, or attitude in a person) is not being loving. To love is to lead the loved-one to feel good, not bad (except cautiously and limitedly when a child’s behavior needs to be corrected). By ingraining you with FEELING BAD, your mother was/ is toxic (“loving but toxic parents”, toxic: poisonous, very harmful), (2) That she repeatedly and at length expressed to her  children that she was lonely and sad and how much people have hurt her, etc.-  this is not loving, but toxic,  because a child is not equipped to handle that much sadness and sorrow. A child figuratively drowns in excess empathy for the suffering mother, and is riddled with overwhelming anxiety and deep sorrow, (3) By accusing her daughters (the two people who as children appreciated her the most in the whole wide world!) of being unappreciative of her , she created in you an I-am-a-bad-person core belief, aka guilt, a recipe for a miserable life.. toxic, not Loving, (4) That she normalized her toxic ways  by saying that all mothers say (toxic) things to their children when angry, and never correcting her toxic ways.. that too was toxic, not loving, (5) When she instructed you, her child,  the impossible: to not take your mother’s words and sentiments personally, she just… messed with you, not loving.

    Back to the title of your thread: “loving but toxic parents”- it can’t be both: when you ingest a toxin/ a poison.. the poison is  not loving you and killing you… it does one thing: killing you!

    Continued, Nov 9-10, 2016: “I lived with severe dread and guilt about making the wrong decisions for YEARS to the point that it took over my life…I work so hard in career and personal life, stay fit, do yoga, have great friends – but funny thing is- my fiancé mentioned it too – it always feels like there is something wrong..  I struggle from the part that its not black and white – my mom in many ways is loving, supportive, and the ‘coolest mom’ growing up”– (1) Severe dread and guilt and the feeling of there-is-always-something-wrong: these are not what love leaves behind in the loved-one, these are not the products of love, (2) There are such things that are black and white, for example, a toxic mushroom and a poisonous snake are always things to 100% avoid when you hike, (3) If some of your mother’s behaviors were truly loving at any one time, I would have read about it in our over 183 pages of communication, plus emails.. plus my massive communication with your sister here and on email.

    I figure that like all children, you NEEDED to believe that your mother loved you, and so, you interpreted a smile of her, let’s say, to mean that she loved you..  interpreting her serving you with a favorite food to mean that she loved you, interpreting that her cleaning and decorating your room meant that she loved you (“my mom spent a lot of time making my room really nice for me“, June 13, 2019) etc., while her smile meant a superficial and short-lived affection, an affection not different from her affection for a stranger’s puppy she just met, and her cooking, cleaning and decorating your room.. were not things she did with your well-being in mind,  but to impress strangers and whatnot. You just happened to be there.

    A child always loves her mother.. she may be cold-blooded later on in life.. but as a child, she loves her mother deeply. She needs her mother to love her back so much that she will interpret everything to mean that her mother loves her. It’s inconceivable that it is not so.  I think that part of you (that child within) still believes that she loves you, a false belief that keeps that always-something-wrong feeling ongoing, and blocks you from moving farther on, emotionally.

    January 15, 2017: “She has no insight into her flaws or issues, like many ‘mothers with narcissistic personality disorder“- features of narcissistic personality disorder (DSM-5, official diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, narcopath. info): “Unwilling to empathize with the feelings, wishes, and needs of other people” – > NO EMPATHY=NO LOVE (a black and white, simple issue). Another feature: “Exploitative of others to achieve personal gain”-> EXPLOIT= NOT LOVE.

    “Narcissistic personality disorder usually develops in adolescence or during early adulthood”->it happened before she became your mother, so I don’t think that she was ever truly loving to you or to your sister.. or to anyone. She only appeared loving to a child who is very, very needy to be loved.

    “They tend to devalue, derogate, insult and blame others.. they may react with outbursts of rage, defiance, or by seeking revenge“-> Not Loving behaviors, making loving relationships impossible.

    “Since the fragile ego of individuals with NPD is hypersensitive to perceived criticism or defeat, they are prone to feelings of shame, humiliation and worthlessness over minor or even imagined incidents”-> this means that a lot  of what she expressed to you, which led you to think “wow how sad my mom’s life was.. why did people do this to her?”– was over minor and imagined incidents.

    In June 6-7, 2019, you wrote: “I get to redefine :.. What is love To ME?.. (I was)  too focused on the hate, that mother taught“, June 11, 2019: “I thought about young Cali Chica, She brought her mother a flower. mother said: oh I used to have these in India all the time – these flowers.  oh, they aren’t common in America are they. She grew up: She brought her mother her new shiny engagement ring, thinking oh yay, my mother will be so happy and proud! finally I got to the goal she wanted me to, a nice boy, and a nice engagement… mother replies: oh I too am going to get a new diamond ring…she doesn’t even look at Cali Chicas… Cali Chica then tries to say, oh you know my fiance designed this and did this – shows the small details…her mother: not a glance, not a care…Cali Chica has been showing her mother things to make her happy from a young age.  Look mother, look what I did for you, I got you a flower.  Look mother, I brought you this friend.  Look mother, I brought you this amazing family that you can be involved in (as you’ve always wanted a family of your own).  Look mother.  She didn’t look.  She spit at it, she berated it – she stomped all over it. It was all in vain“-

    -clearly, you desperately loved her and.. she did not love you in return. She was your Everything, you were her Nothing.. a non-person. She was  her Center, you were… nowhere to be seen, not by her.

    June 13 & 27, 2019, as part of our inner-child exercise, you wrote:  “my mom and dad always tell me I am so forgetful and absent minded.  they always say where is your mind? because I forget things a lot… my mom always has stress about cleaning and no one helps her do anything so she gets mad at us..  she doesn’t let me help her bc she says I am messy and absent minded. and then I think – ya I am – I don’t know why I am.. sometimes I’m not even that messy like just some toys – but more they get mad that I am ‘absent minded’ they always say ‘oh where is her brain!!!’“- I imagine that you tried to forget a lot of the no-love-for-Cali-Chica reality, and being berated and stomped all over. Anxious, unloved and berated, stomped all over (abused)- no wonder your mind was absent, no wonder you were not attentive and present. She blamed you for .. not being more attentive to her un-love and abuse.

    On June 19, 2019, I wrote to you what you later referred to as a “masterpiece, a thesis paper”, let’s look at parts of what I wrote to you back then:  “Your mother has been extremely pathological (the word you used) way before she became a mother.. In addition to not feeling empathy for you, to attacking you for having any emotion or problem, she also gave you a lot of senseless nonsense, illogically inconsistent and contradictory information about herself, other people, the concept of luck and friendship and so much more… In your quest to please her you were doomed to relentless cognitive dissonance, a barrage of senseless nonsense, a mental torture for any human who naturally needs logical consistency.  One reason why you didn’t listen to her much as a child.. is because of that ongoing outpouring of nonsense…. Your mother was about appearances, she valued the appearances of success, from the prestige of being married to a doctor, to her home, her clothes, her jewelry, going on expensive vacations and touring the world, and maybe her favorite: having friends. Showing off her young daughters as dancers  who wear expensive clothes and who have friends/ a busy social life was part of her quest for the appearances of success. Her extreme emphasis on you and your sister having  friends was not motivated by her valuing friendship or valuing people. In all of the posts I read, I did not detect her valuing her husband, her daughters, anyone in her extended family, anyone in India or in the USA… she valued you and your sister temporarily when you made her look good, such as when you danced well at weddings or when you befriended a girl and she got to meet the girl’s parents. If a person served her purpose.. she valued that person temporarily as a means to an end… Before you cut contact with your mother, you imagined it will be a great loss to her, “the idea of losing her daughter is crippling to her.. she would likely get our whole extended family involved, maybe even end up hospitalized due to deep despair, hysteria, and psychosis related to the idea of ‘losing me’” (1/17/2018)- – none of that happened after you cut contact with her…. You wrote about your sister: “she saw much earlier on that my mom is a bad person…  I was a blinded saint/devotee to my mother.. because my mother ‘favored’ me.. I was in the dark… That to this day I remain loyal in many ways, ways I do not even see”-

    -fast forward 2 years and 5 months, Nov 2021, you wrote to me on email: ” “I say ‘yes mother see, I told you I wouldn’t leave you – that I wouldn’t be like those others and leave my mom and be HAPPY!! See I am still loyal.. I’m still loyal.. I’m loyal to the misery – I will never leave ‘you’“-

    My closing thoughts: leave her, Cali Chica, so that you can be a girl again (a Chica), loving and lively. Leave her because she never loved you. No matter how comforting the idea that she loved you.. if only just a little bit, this stubborn belief is keeping you away from Love and Life.

    There really are such people who do not love their children, they really do exist.. accept that your mother is one of these people. So is my mother, and my life will be better if I thoroughly understand it because it is true. My mother, like yours, wasn’t capable of loving me.. seeing me as an object that makes her look good or bad, to others.. not a person. Better understand it fully and thoroughly, no make-believe, no convenient, wishful thinking.. just the Truth.

    And the Truth shall set you free, to Live, to Love.

    anita

     

     

    #417095
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I read this thread today it was started in November 2016, the last post by you was November 2021. 12 days after your last post on this forum to me my father passed away. Oh had the last few years sometimes feel like a blur of one year, but sometimes feel so heavy as though I have aged ages and years in just a few. So much has happened so much is different, but of course, so much is still the same. I look forward to talking with you more, whether it be on this forum, the other one, or email. Maybe even start a new thread, although I feel quite nostalgic, and attached to all of the hard work we’ve done in the Self Trust thread! It is chapters in a biography of sorts, a coming of age and awakening novel

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