June 26, 2019 at 7:53 am #300837
I want to understand better, to understand more, so I ask you more questions, I hope it is okay with you. Once I understand better, I will tell you what it is that I figure, or ask you if I understand correctly.
Can you elaborate on/ give examples to: “I give everything to people who I consider friends. In return I get nothing”?
anitaJune 26, 2019 at 11:54 pm #300995
Of course ask anything don’t even mention it! I’m truly grateful for taking the time and energy to help me with my issues. And with your help I’m having the calmest days of my life for almost two weeks straight. So big thank you <3
Now on to what you asked. Whoever treats me with politeness I tend to open up completely very early on,because I consider them friend material. I don’t know why I do this, it’s impulsive. Maybe I’m subconsciously thirsty for friendships. And as time progresses I get promises that don’t follow through like let’s have coffee together, let’s go shopping etc whilst they get what the ask of me, be it a favor, money loans, gifts, attentiveness to their problems. The last one’s a biggie. See, they always want me around when they’re down, abandoned, sad. When luck strikes for them, they completely ignore me, go out with other friends, not even asking to join.
For example, I had a “friend” whom I supported psychologically through a rough time. But when I broke up, she disappeared whilst posting pictures of outings with other people having so much fun. She had the nerve to ask me out to which I enthusiastically agreed. Outcome? All the days leading to our meeting she disappeared. Then the day and time of our meeting she texted me she couldn’t meet because she had to study and later that exactly evening she posted photos of her being out with other friends. Next day she contacted me asking how I’m doing. I didn’t respond. Since then I seized all communications with her and other friends like her.
That’s exactly what’s happening to my parents as well. I call it the friend curse of the family.June 27, 2019 at 6:26 am #301031
You are very welcome, and I am glad you are okay with my questions. I will next propose an answer, not a question, as it just occurred to me to make this connection:
You wrote about your parents: “they were there emotionally for the good parts. When bad things happened they wanted to repress them.. They always say, ‘other parents don’t have those situations, they don’t have to deal with them because their children are normal, happy, successful etc.”
– so when bad things or situations happen where you are clearly and undeniably mistreated and taken advantage of (by that man and by friends), you repress these situations as they are happening by zoning off to one degree or another.
You wrote: “Sometimes I’m zoning off, completely cut off my surroundings. I can hear nor see anything but just 2 people arguing in my head.. While this is happening I’m in complete memory gap. I don’t know what and if I do or say anything during this time. Nor do I recall afterwards. Strange…”- this is the repression, right here, in an extreme form.
This explains to me how it is that a very intelligent and otherwise aware, an organized thinker as yourself, allows situations that fit people who do not possess the intelligence and organized thinking that you possess. You zone off, maybe in different degrees/ different extents when bad things happen, such as a boyfriend yelling at you, or a supposed friend not following up on her word, and you neither respond well to the situation nor do you learn from the situation.
Let me know what you think…?
anitaJune 28, 2019 at 5:03 am #301183
I think it is exactly so. I’ve been reading a lot to find out what causes this zoning off. Turns out it is repression after all. All of the sources pointed out that is a form of self soothing, kind of like a coping mechanism. Basically I escape so that I don’t have to live the rejection of my feelings.
It’s sad to think that I did this to my poor self. Sad because I think I have value and my feelings are valid. In my pursuit of peace and utopia I ignored and silenced myself, just as everybody else wanted.
But I’m happy that at least I know what’s going on finally. My therapist, which I stopped seeing, thought I was doing all this out of a family imposed victimhood on me. That all this happened because I am easy prey for ths hunters out there. Where I find that I dodged many bullets on my own and even younger, with my strength and will. I’m not a victim, I’m just on mute. I need to free myself.
And it’s true Anita, that when I’m expressing my anger I feel shaken but… It feels wonderful afterwards!!!! I’m so proud of me when I speak my voice. Do you think hobbies that help you express anger could be helpful for people like me? For example boxing, martial arts etc?
Everyone who knows me says three things about me: intelligent , sweet and stubborn. My family also thinks I’m the smartest person amongst them but I disagree. I know I’m smart on somw level but, not socially smart. I’m really sociable, don’t get me wrong. Everybody enjoys a conversation with me and I know how to carry myself openly and gracefully. I’m the the type of woman that always smiles and laughs at the bar, I give the idea of the carefree girl. Or at least they told me so. That I have a friendly attitude that’s attractive. So how come I screw up at follow ups with people? That’s the mystery! What do you think?June 28, 2019 at 6:01 am #301193
Better for your well being to no longer see that therapist and a shame she practices at all, likely to make many of her clients’ lives even more difficult than when they first see her. If there is anything you can do, write a written complaint perhaps to whomever is the authority over therapists in Greece, that may be a good idea.
Regarding boxing, martial arts, and other forms of physical exercise- I am sure it will help, exercise in itself is helpful. You can try boxing or martial arts and see how you. But unless you operate assertively in your daily life, unless you reject mistreatment and abuse, boxing and such will not help beyond temporarily feeling better.
“I’m really sociable.. I know how to carry myself openly and gracefully.. I give the idea of the carefree girl.. I have a friendly attitude that’s attractive. So how come I screw up at follow ups with people? That’s the mystery! What do you think?”-
– well, in my most recent post I answered that and you agreed, that you zone off, space out, and so, you don’t use your smarts, your intelligence.
But there is more to it. So I will ask you more questions:
1. You mentioned two times that you were sick while being at that guy’s home, once having a high fever- how did that come about, were you sick and then took buses to see him/ sick and he came to pick you up or were you okay and then developed high fever while in his place?
2. Once you had the fever and he refused to give you a ride home, so you took buses or the train, while having fever… were you are okay with that/ zoned off..? And the day after talked with him as if nothing happened, no anger, no confrontation (you may have shared something about this that I forgot, I hope you don’t mind repeating in that case)?
3. Did you at times find any kind of pleasure in his mistreatment of you, in being obedient to an abusive superior of sorts?
June 29, 2019 at 2:38 pm #301375
- This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by anita.
Good evening! I’m late for my response. And here’s why: I didn’t no the answers to your questions. Superficial yes, but deeply, I had no clue. Maybe still don’t, but at least I gave it substance in my brain. I tend to brush things off my mind so much (fitting in that suppression nature) that deep thinking is now a form of mental exercise I gladly challenge myself with (not to be mistaken for overthinking tho).
To your first question : I was sick all along. Then Saturday came and I dreaded that since I’m sick he would make bypass me and make plans with friends, which he often did leaving me with only seeing him once a week or maneuvering my whole schedule to see him on an inconvenient day + time for me. And so I “cried” to him, sorta begging him to meet, because I was missing him so very much. Saturdays were really a tough day for me to fix a date with him. He agreed most the time but after a week of negotiations, suggestions and even “arguments” (him getter angry and me getting depressed is what it was). I was so sad he gave no fig if he wouldn’t meet me. He always was saying it’s fine. What kind of man in love does that? I call bs on that. I digress – so my dad drove me near his place (because I insisted, my dad wanted me to drop me right at his doorstep for my comfort) and he came with his motorcycle and picked me up and we drove at his place, basically a 2 minute drive. He NEVER offered to come pick me up from my place. He just suggested we shouldn’t meet because he didn’t want me to suffer or him caching the same illness.
To your second question : Yes I took three busses whilst feverous and the next half hour I texted him that I loved him so much and I was so lucky to have him. No confrontation, no disappointment, in fact, I DID believe I was lucky and never had it ever crossed my mind that he was a douchebag or that he was playing me. I thought his behavior was normal and loving even. With no prior experience, anyone can sell you a rock for a diamond. It’s like kids adds, they are successful because kids buy into anything. Plastic seems gold when you haven’t seen gold or haven’t been taught the difference.
To your third question : I don’t know if subconsciously I did. Because consciously I didn’t perceive any mistreatment happening. I couldn’t make that connection, my brain was no sensing it at all. I don’t know if it’s tooooo TMI and if I’m even allowed to talk about this here but, in the most private aspect of life (*cough*) I enjoy and adore been submissive and/or mistreated. To which HE couldn’t even grasp why. But I can’t know for sure 100%,because again my only experience was with him in that concept. Who knows?
Do you think there might be a correlation between submissiveness and my anger repression struggle?June 30, 2019 at 6:56 am #301459
I was thinking that there may be something there, a certain pleasure at being obedient to him, even mistreated, simply because as you tell about your experiences being mistreated by him, you don’t “sound” offended or depressed over it.
“I enjoy and adore (being) submissive and/ or mistreated”, sexually, that is. This is a major piece of information in the quest of understanding you. What you shared so far is not TMI and I don’t want sexual details, but in general, very general terms (I can probably imagine some of the details based on such general terms), elaborate about this sentence I just quoted, will you?
– and in non- sexual contexts, any evidence of you enjoying being submissive and/ or mistreated?
anitaJune 30, 2019 at 7:26 am #301471
No, you’re right. To this day I don’t get offended by his treatment although I have started feeling angry and somewhat irritated by that. A “normal” person would have been furious! And ALL, like literally, aaaalll the people that hear my story do get enraged!!!! So how came I don’t? It’s because I’m timid to the worst possible way for my mental health and life stability.
About my sexual submissiveness I think it boils down to liking the man to get off his sexual tension on me with rage. Sorry if I’m getting too explicit, but there is a word in Greek I’m trying to translate jn English but there’s no exact word to describe. Explode, burst, getting off, mayyybe that’s it? I like when a man is angry at sex (again basing this off my only experience with my ex and my sexual fantasies). Being anrgy, violent (not to the point of harming me tho) is what I find sexy. My role is to accept all of it and to obey to his needs. Kind of like a rugdoll. It sounds really bad I know, but it’s so appealing for me. I of course like to be active but only for the part of his pleasure. I’m surprisingly open minded sexually (sex for me being a 2 persons,monogamous , heterosexual affair, because I’m a female cisgender heterosexual) and have asked my ex for variety but he refused several times. I really enjoy being restrained, God I don’t know if I’m making you feel uncomfortable, I’m so sorry.
Outside the bedroom, in real life no, being mistreated is a no no for me. For one, my biggest hate is lack of justice and my biggest fear on earth is being unjust and unfair. If there’s something in my subconscious tho, that feeds off of that and gets pleasure out of it, I don’t really know…. I always stand up for the oppressed and those being mistreated with fierce passion. But on me (and regarding my ex relationship) it’s a mistery to me even!
I really do hope I didn’t cross the line with my narration about sex and didn’t give too explicit of details.June 30, 2019 at 8:00 am #301479
No, you didn’t cross the line and you didn’t make me feel uncomfortable. I have enough understanding and fortunately I don’t need any more graphic details. Well, let’s try to understand this together:
– You grew up with your sister and parents. She was the explosive one, you were the obedient one. Your parents encouraged your obedience, the fact that you didn’t give them any trouble. But your sister got their attention and you wanted their attention.
Fast forward to your first boyfriend, you are trying to recreate your childhood experience within a sexual context: have him behave like your sister, “Explode, burst, getting off… Being angry, violent”, and your role in this sexual context is similar to your childhood role, “to accept all of it and to obey to his needs. Kind of like a rug doll”.
Only in the sexual context, unlike your childhood experience, you are getting all the attention that you want because the attention is directed at you. As a child you were in the background, witnessing your sister exploding in rage and your parents attending to her. Sexually, you are in center stage, the direct recipient of the rage and the attention.
What do you think?
anitaJune 30, 2019 at 12:03 pm #301499
This makes sense. Especially the last paragraph – I can see the connection of my upbringing and who the role I took upon myself is self destrucrive, leading to that problematic relationship I had.
<p style=”text-align: left;”>So, all I need is attention. To be the focal point of someone’s life due to not being that in my family. That ex didn’t give it to a form of love, respect and care, so I basically took whatever he had to give me (anger, mistreatment and sexual violence e) because something is better than nothing. Again it makes sense. It clicks. Thank you.</p>
But the hard part is to tune out of this role, to detach from this identity. I try really hard and work out mentally to improve. It has brought so many happy and relaxing days my way, but it is not enough in the long run. I need A change, a transformation. Not into something I’m not, just becoming more self loving, self respecting, independent, having boundaries and being a go getter for my life.
For the longest time I thought it was that people saw me as a looser, an easy prey, an open book. True, I may as well be. Is it something fixable? And do you think, I should keep my heart closed to the possibility of love during this process? I feel I cannot trust my judgment so easily after being hurt.
July 1, 2019 at 8:45 am #301579
- This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by Sofioula.
I re-read all your posts since January this year (previous threads and current), it increases my understanding when I read older posts with the understanding of newer posts:
1. Regarding friends: “They (parents) always say, ‘other parents don’t have those situations, they don’t have to deal with them because their children are normal, happy, successful, etc..’… I always aspired to.. alleviate the burdens of my folks worrying about me... I don’t have friends. As in real friends… I don’t know how other people do it, how do they make lasting friendships?… they always want me around when they’re down, abandoned, sad. When luck strikes for them, they completely ignore me… Everybody enjoys a conversation with me and I know how to carry myself openly and gracefully. I’m the type to woman that always smiles and laughs at the bar, I give the idea of the carefree girl. Or at least they told me so. That I have a friendly attitude that’s attractive. So how come I screw up at follow ups with people? That’s the mystery! What do you think?”
– I think that for the purpose of alleviating the burdens of your parents, to prevent them from worrying about you, you didn’t bring to them “those situations”, that is, your sadness, anger, struggles, difficulties, and you did your best to appear “normal, happy, successful, etc.”. Fast forward, you meet potential friends, they bring to you their own “those situations”, their sadness, anger, struggles and you support them while appearing normal, happy, successful, etc. Notice this: you were drawn to them thinking they need your help because of those situations.. but because you don’t have … those situations, they are not drawn to you.
People are drawn to other people who have problems. A problem free, carefree person is fun at the bar, like you mentioned, and helpful when one is needy, but otherwise, no draw. If you share your problems, your own “those situations”, there will be a draw, at least with a good number of potential friends, and a deep, lasting and mutual friendship will be possible for you.
2. Regarding your lifetime emptiness/nothing, before and after the relationship: “I’m back to point zero, single, alone, empty, just as I were before meeting him… In retrospect I think that I fell so deep into him because my life had nothing in it. No friends, no job, no nothing”-
– this was your experience as a child, one you kept experiencing as an adult.
3. Regarding anger and your familial/ social and sexual role: “my sister was and is their (parents’) main preoccupation. She is explosive, a bit narcissistic and will get her way, and my parents had a hard time, so little me thought oh let’s be the exact opposite, the obedient one, the selfless in order to be a priority… My family’s situation has always been this: my sister first, my sister most. She was the center of my parents attention, she still is to this day because she is a difficult person, FULL of anger and explosive behaviors, narcissism, lack of empathy.. they call me the sweetness in their life… I got trained to think anger- bad, obedience- good, in order to emotionally survive”-
– to compete with your sister for your parents’ attention you took the opposite role to hers. She was explosively angry, so you … voided yourself of anger best you could and became the obedient one. But all along you wanted to be like your sister, you wanted to express that which she expressed and you repressed: explosive anger, tangible anger, getting your way.
Growing up and as an adult, you lived life voided of anger for the most part (“My anger issues. I don’t have any”), not asserting yourself with anyone (“even when a stranger pushed me on the street for example, I wouldn’t say anything, not wanting to be rude”), and you lived with minimal to no awareness, or perception of being mistreated, being spaced out when mistreated. Anger did not connect to.. an absent perception of being mistreated (“consciously I didn’t perceive any mistreatment happening. I couldn’t make that connection, my brain was not sensing it at all.. To this day I don’t get offended by his treatment… A ‘normal’ person would have been furious!).
Your anger although voided best possible, is not gone. It shows up in these contexts:
a. “my biggest hate is lack of justice… I always stand up for the oppressed and those mistreated with fierce passion”- maybe that is the reason you wanted to study law.
b. “I enjoy and adore being submissive and/ or mistreated.. it boils down to liking the man to get off his sexual tension on me with rage… I like when a man is angry at sex.. Being angry, violent (not to the point of harming me though) is what I find sexy. My role is to accept all of it and to obey to his needs.. I really enjoy being restrained”-
– you desire your sister’s experience of explosive anger, her getting her own way, so intensely that you experience it sexually by proxy. Meaning, with your ex boyfriend, you didn’t get angry yourself, but you enjoyed his anger, him getting his own way with you, angrily, passionately.
Wanting but unable to let anger take its rightful place in your life experience, you have done the next best thing, which is to enjoy his anger, to enjoy it by proxy.
You wrote earlier how good it felt to express your anger recently, an exception to your behavior, with a taxy driver I think it was, how good it felt to tell him to f*** off, I think it was. That is you enjoying your anger directly, by personal experience. With your ex boyfriend, sexually you enjoyed anger by proxy, by being the recipient of it.
July 3, 2019 at 12:36 pm #301939
- This reply was modified 11 months ago by anita.
I really suck at answering on time don’t I?
Good evening, thank you so much for answering and a deep apology for my lame and late delay. Life is been so full that I barely get to open my emails anymore. But still, it’s full in a good and productive way, so, Praise God. 🙂
Some light. Finally after so many years I can understand now. Why and how. The unexpressed anger, the sister competition, the parental dismissal, the strange sexual attitude, the broken relationships and the detachment from self. Thank you once more, I hope it’s not getting repetitive but… I am grateful for your insights. You can’t imagine how…
As far as my anger, lately I let it escape more. I don’t judge myself for it. I let nature take it’s coarse, because I know that I act with caution and mindfulness when angry, never putting my mental or physical integrity at risk, nor anybody else’s.
My sister issue: I have been opening up to her about my anger and our parents issue. Guess what? We connect over those things and at these moments, I truly SEE her and she does me. It’s like a bingo moment. It has improved our communication and I hope we can heal most of our wounds. Optimistic 😀
My ex is been on my mind less than the fly on my wall right now. Because for the past weeks I’ve been practicing this: “every time my brain pops him out, I either pray and focus my mind on that, and the Blessed Image of Jesus Christ or I get angry and” sassy” about it and say he’s a nobody. I know the later is not reeeeally positive and mindful but, for now it helps. And I care more about that than being internally politically correct, sorta say.
About sex, I see what you mean. Completely. I have unraveled in my mind all my experiences about it and even process and look deeply into what makes me, well, “enthusiastic” when it happens. So I hypothetically change the eeeh, “scenario” in my head with something less violent, something more traditional and loving. The experience is a WHOLE lot of different. And gratifying in a peculiar, for me, way. Never would have thought.
I also have been refuting and debunking most of ideas my environment had embedded on me. Piece by piece I’ve been debonning my whole philosophy and perception of things. I decriminilized a huge amount in my head. For example, standing up for myself when wronged or appreciating my emotions as valid and human. Well mostly anger let’s be honest. And that I can’t please the universe and its inhabitants. It’s not my purpose, destiny of responsibility so FACK the universe. We will coexist in disagreement, humanely. Not happily. And that’s the biggest swift in my perception of reality. We don’t have to live happily or else or lives are negative or flawed. Negativity matters too. It’s a complex and most needed duality. The more happy one strives to be, the more blandly and aggressively does he/she get shaken by reality. People use mindfulness to achieve total bliss. But truthfully, mindfulness equals grounding and 100% experiencing the now and here. Whenever, however and wherever that might be. What’s your point on that?
Yesterday, I received yet again an anonymous call. They didn’t say a word again. That person just wants to hear my voice. It’s borderline creepy. And there’s nothing I can do about it, sadly.
I would really like to see your thoughts on this. Hope it’s not too tiring to read 😀July 3, 2019 at 1:21 pm #301941
Don’t worry about answering on time, there is no “on time” here. Answer whenever suits you. Talking about time, I don’t have the time/ focus to thoroughly read your recent post and would like to do so when I am rested and refreshed tomorrow morning.
If something occurs to you anytime, add a post, add as many posts as you’d like. I’ll read them all when I am back to your thread (I may answer shortly on other threads but will be back to you in about 16 hours from now).
anitaJuly 4, 2019 at 8:41 am #301985
“As far as my anger, lately I let it escape more.. I act with caution and mindfulness when angry, never putting my mental or physical integrity at risk, nor anybody else’s”- excellent, and so well articulated.
“I have been opening up to her about my anger and our parents issues.. We connect over those things.. I truly SEE her and she does me”- good but be cautious- the two of you adjusted to your parents in different ways, not seeing your parents exactly the same way. Don’t be alarmed when you discover significant differences in evaluating your parents and childhood experiences.
“About sex.. The experience is a WHOLE lot of different. And gratifying in a peculiar, for me, way. Never would have thought”- you mean your fantasy sexual experience at this point, imagining it or are you referring to an actual sexual experience of late?
“standing up for myself when wronged.. appreciating my emotions as valid and human”- excellent.
“We don’t have to live happily or else or lives are negative or flawed. Negativity matters too. It’s a complex and most needed duality”- excellent understanding, if I understand you correctly, that is, total bliss is not possible. After all, heaven was invented for that purpose, the idea that sometime in the future, there will be such a thing as total bliss. Clearly, that can not happen in life.
Better not get surprised or alarmed every time we feel good and then lose that feeling, that makes us feel unnecessary distress when we lose a good feeling. Often it seems like people, when feeling happy, have this delusion that it is possible to not feel badly again, and to always feel good.
anitaJuly 7, 2019 at 9:35 am #302251
I’ve been traveling the past 3 days. I gave myself a well needed off the radar experience, enjoying some summer days under the sun, with my family. It’s been wonderful and even so much more wonderful NOW that I have this perspective and understanding of the world.
The mind-swift is like the breath you never knew could feel so amazing. That deep breath you take when you fall in love, or when you daydream, or when you succeed. And I feel all of those feelings. I accepted myself and my human conditions and limitations, positivity and negativity, black and white and all the colors. All the kinds of breathing, all the struggles and insecurities, the anxiety… I don’t discriminate against my emotions any more. They don’t make me less attractive or lovable or successful. Even Jesus, had his breaking point. Experience everything – that’s living and I’m so deeply grateful for this chance to have been incarnated. That’s why we say learning curve. It’s because that curve might get you to all different angles, ups and downs.
I’m eternally grateful for this forum as well and for your help especially. No joke, everybody asks me, why my face looks different, they seem to get excited and confused to find what I changed in my appearance. And I laugh and smile! At last, organically and intentionally – I made no changes, I just found my skin and wore it for the first time! It’s so amazing how an internal process can reflect on the outside.
To what you asked about my answer on the sexual part, I meant when imagining. I’ve been inactive since my ex, intentionally, even though I had so many requests. I didn’t want to get my heart hurt again. I want things (especially of this intimate kind) to happen naturally and out of a connection. I can’t Do something out of grief or to boost my confidence. I’m gonna stay alone until love comes. Someone who can walk with me.
That very last thing you said. We get to our bliss point and all memory and logic are erased. Bliss is not sustainable. Not in this reality of ours at least. Then expectations fall on our heads and, ouch, it hurts. Because we tossed the sooo up high, they came down with force. It’s amazing to have expectations, and even high ones. But to the things we can control and work for. Not for how a person is gonna play out in our lives. That takes two parts and all you can hope for is balance.