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- This topic has 189 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 3 months ago by XenopusTex.
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July 8, 2016 at 4:30 pm #109177XenopusTexParticipant
Bah, thought I had posted but apparently didn’t. Learned more about that woman, she apparently had been using the guy too. She knew the relationship wasn’t going anywhere but she kept him strung along to get stuff done with her house.
Kind of think that is why the on/off approach to me. Noticed a trend of her being friendly, dressing and acting somewhat provocatively toward me being followed by wanting something. My gut is telling me that she knows I still have feelings for her, and she is trying to manipulate that.
So, how do you fully pull the plug on somebody who you truly care deeply about? This is where empathy really sucks.
Had not pursued more self-work this week on emotional intelligence. Got wrapped up in the press of work. It is so easy to fall back into old patterns.
I thank you all for your support and ideas on this forum 🙂
July 8, 2016 at 5:29 pm #109180AnonymousGuestDear XenopusTex:
You are welcome. Well, if following evaluated her you believe she is a manipulative woman, well, this is the time to apply the Hammer part of you, isn’t it? I wish you didn’t engage yourself with dishonest, manipulative people outside of work, that is. In your personal life, keep your personal life clear of dishonesty is my position.
You are pretty good at gathering information about people; part of the job, I suppose.
anita
July 9, 2016 at 9:57 pm #109268XenopusTexParticipantYou are right. I should apply the blunt force side of me to just sever the matter. Still hurts though. For the first time in a decade, I thought I had found a match. Was prepared to give fully of myself, time, and resources. Feel like I am an idiot for letting my self get blinded by the deep feelings I had for her. Kind of scares the hell out of me. At least the relationship did not reach the physical stage.
As I am trying to improve emotional awareness and insight, have been trying to figure out the why behind such behavior. Is it a sense of power to jerk people around emotionally to get something from them? Ultimately, it seems like a losing strategy. People get tired of it. Even people naive to such things get tired of it.
Right now, she’s in her early 30’s and cute and svelte. She would turn a few heads walking into a room. Would probably have no trouble finding somebody who would shack up with her in exchange for working on projects, etc. however, she’s not always going to be young, cute, and svelte.
Why would somebody choose manipulation and games over a relationship? Of course, maybe I am just too much to put up with… But, seriously, apparently not just me. Is it fear of commitment? Is it some species of sadism where people get their kicks out of playing emotional games with people who care?
Seems like such a self-defeating behavior. Yes, you may get something out of the other person, but at what cost? Some people, like me, just walk away hurt and asking why choose so little as opposed to so much. Other people have far nastier responses, the least of which is beating the snot out of someone.
July 10, 2016 at 7:07 am #109287AnonymousGuestDear XenopusTex:
As to your first paragraph, you wrote: “Feel like I am an idiot for letting my self get blinded by the deep feelings I had for her. Kind of scares the hell out of me.” My comment: you are not an idiot for feeling anything at all, you are not an idiot for feeling loving feelings for this woman. Feeling what you felt/ feel for her simply means you are human. It is scary, I agree, to be a slave to your emotions, to do what you feel no matter what the reality is. That is scary. But if you can feel, let the emotion be, then evaluate the situation, see reality for what it is, then you can choose what to do taking in consideration your emotions and intellect, and do what makes sense. Emotions are not dangerous if you endure them, learn the valid messages behind them and be in cognitive control of your life.
Emotional Intelligence is this: valid messages behind emotions. As I see it the valid message behind your loving feeling for her is that you need to love and to be loved (no surprise). The wrong message would be for you to let her do with you as she wishes just so that she will have you in her life in any capacity she wishes. See the difference?
Regarding her motivation, the common behavior of some physically attractive women to use their looks so to make men give them money, material goods, do for them etc.. regarding this particular woman, I think you are wondering why isn’t she motivated to have the real thing, the whole relationship with you instead of aiming at a project done for her, something like that, am I correct? Is that what you are wondering about?
If so, good question. If I was her, and there is a man (you) who can greatly benefit me, a man who will be an honest, trustworthy, loving, generous man to me, why I would definitely consider aiming at a life together. Now, why doesn’t she? Here is a possible answer: because Emotional Intelligence is not common. Her brain can very well be foggy and she doesn’t see the whole picture. She sees a corner here (this man can do this for me) and a corner there, but she doesn’t see the picture: THIS man can be a good life partner for me.
anita
July 13, 2016 at 12:01 am #109536XenopusTexParticipantLearned some more things today. The gal didn’t want to deal with particularly nasty staff meeting today, so she told her boss and coworkers she had something at lunch when the meeting was to be. She didn’t have anything.
Makes me nervous. I sort of knew her for a year. I just thought that she was a smart and attractive woman who had quirks like we all do. Perhaps I should have taken more notice of the time I saw her with a couple of “interesting” looking guys, ones who looked like I should be prosecuting them.
Trying to figure it how I wound up so oblivious. Normally, I tend to expect people to lie. My first reaction is to call BS. How did I not see it? How did I miss that she isn’t truthful? Is it sort of like a situation where you become angry enough that you just don’t think well?
Also trying to figure out why I still care about her and why I feel sadness for her about the path she has chosen. It makes no logical sense. I can look at a female defendant crying her eyes out in court and feel nothing, because that is a fairly common manipulation attempt. logically, should she not fall into the same category?
July 13, 2016 at 8:41 am #109552AnonymousGuestDear XenopuxTex:
Back to Emotional Intelligence, your quest (and mine): when you have strong emotions but you are not clear about the information behind the emotions, you are likely to simply get foggy, like a storm is going on, a fog and you can’t see in front of you.
There are no emotions in your brain in the courthouse when you see defendant women crying, no fog. From your experience women crying= effort to manipulate. Clarity.
With this woman, emotions got triggered, the desire to-love-and-be-loved, you were drawn to her. These emotions lead to fog, a storm of sorts, lack of clarity.
If you understood the information behind your attraction, draw to this woman, there wouldn’t be fog. Let’s say you understood the following information behind your emotions:
1. I like the way she looks, the way she dresses, the way she physically presents herself.
2. I am thinking she physically presents this way to me because she is interested in me. I very much like the idea of a woman interested in me, especially since I think I look like a geek. When a “hot woman” shows physical interest in me, that definitely gets my attention.
3. I like intelligent/ professional woman. I find it attractive.If you thought these things, then you’d be aware of what about a woman’s physical appearance attracts you (#1, the ..easy one). You would then investigate whether she presents herself physically this way to other men and to other women so to see if the presentation is a message to you, personally (#2) and then you will continue to learn that intelligence and a professional position is far from indicating wisdom/ emotional intelligence (#3)
anita
July 13, 2016 at 10:36 am #109574XenopusTexParticipantYou are right. Just really bothers me that I couldn’t figure it out. Even seems like she had fooled her co-workers who thought that we would be a good match. If I can figure it out after a year, I am really nervous about my ability to figure it out.
Also nervous about actually finding someone who isn’t into that stuff. Wonder if part of the driving force for the behavior is that because men so out number women out here, options are limited. Sort of like the concept of a business monopoly; scarce product demands whatever price. What I can’t figure out is why, in this environment, you see the pairings that you do. Guess that I just need to get out more and meet yet more people.
July 13, 2016 at 11:12 am #109578AnonymousGuestDear XenopusTex:
I think that your focus on the statistic that men outnumber women were you live, that this focus is misguided. Is it so that Quality men outnumber quality women (quality here is to suggest the men or women are able to tell quality in a potential partner)? If you are a quality man, one possessing desirable qualities such as loyalty, honesty, etc. and you can tell these qualities in a woman, the men in your group must be a very small group with a large group of women (quality or not) available!
I agree with your last line, getting out more and meeting more people. I would add to it: be Quality and look for Quality.
anita
July 13, 2016 at 1:20 pm #109594XenopusTexParticipantHave been working on improving presentation. I wish this town had more places to meet folks who don’t frequent bars, etc.
July 13, 2016 at 4:58 pm #109603AnonymousGuestDear XenopuxTex:
Too bad it is a small town and as I understand it, it is an isolated small town? If you did meet someone at a bar, I would suggest to her to continue your conversation outside the bar. Maybe a few women go to the bars because there is nowhere else to socialize and will be happy to move on out of the bar once meeting you.
I wonder what “improving presentation” means- hope it means you being authentic and as relaxed as you can, as calm as you can be, leaving the hammer at work. Not too close; not too distant; friendly but cautious…?
anita
July 13, 2016 at 8:17 pm #109616XenopusTexParticipantYep, working on leaving the hammer behind. Have also been working on improving my expressions, etc. After much thought, have realized that there is a part of me that wants a long-term relationship where both people respect and trust one another. Need to overcome my social awkwardness.
Just wish there was some certainty with this.
July 14, 2016 at 7:41 am #109652AnonymousGuestDer XenopusTex:
You hit the nail on the head (fitting expression here, for me) when you wrote: “Just wish there was some certainty with this.”-
It is difficult to operate in the dark, not knowing what’s going on, what’s going to happen- which is how a lot of interactions and relationships do operate; the two people bump into each other in the dark, figuratively speaking.
The whole concept of Emotional Intelligence is gaining sight into the darkness, seeing what is happening, so you are not bumping into people in the dark. For example, when that woman physically presented herself to you in an attractive way, when you are in the dark, so to speak, you jump to the conclusion: she is interested in my as a boyfriend. When you are in the light, that is emotionally-intelligent, you say to yourself: it is possible she is interested in me as a boyfriend, but maybe not. I need to gather evidence. Let me observe how she presents herself to other people (evidence). Later, maybe, you can gather more evidence at lunch with her and ask her questions (not as a prosecutor, but gentle questions, asked differently so to maximize your chances of getting honest answers, and then there is the listening, evaluating the answers or lack of answers).
So Emotional Intelligence is about gaining more certainty in personal relationships by gathering evidence, observing, asking… just like a prosecutor only not with a hammer, not in a harsh, hard nosed way, but in a way that will get results in the context of personal relationships.
anita
July 14, 2016 at 4:09 pm #109678XenopusTexParticipantI have also discovered that I tend to be pushy and overbearing at times. Guess that is the stereotypical attorney thing.
As an interesting aside, the gal I had been talking about seems to be getting caught in her false statements. Employer found out that not only did she miss the mandatory meeting, she lied to do so. She could have had a stable job, a devoted partner, financial resources, the whole nine yards. Instead, she chose to have nothing. That makes no sense, and not just taking about her shooting me down either. Wonder if once her job situation becomes clearer, I will suddenly become more interesting.
For a while, I was kind of enjoying that situation. Was nice to see somebody who hurt you get a comeuppance. Then started thinking that the response was wrong. That while she hurt me more deeply than any other person I have met, maybe I should think about her experiences. It is a feeling I have never had before. Before when people would screw me over, my response would pretty much be karma’s a b****. Am I still being confused by my prior emotions? Part of me wants to hug her, part of me wants to her to go to and stay put.
July 14, 2016 at 8:59 pm #109689AnonymousGuestDear XenopusTex:
She really awakened the soft part of you, this woman, the loving part of you. I wish there was a way … I mean, well, I wish there was a way for you to have a relationship with her. Simply because she awakened that part of you.
Will be back to the computer in 9 hours or so, tired now. I will re-read your last post above (and maybe another, if there is one) and write more then.
anita
July 15, 2016 at 9:11 am #109738AnonymousGuestDear XenopusTex:
If you want to get to know this woman better, and she is willing, you can get together with her for this purpose: to learn who she is, what she is about; if she is distressed, is her life falling apart… has been not-together for a long time. Best if you could hear her story in person, better than hearing news from others and trying to fill in the gaps with assumptions. Like you wrote, her choices don’t seem to make sense, so when you feel in the gaps with your sense, your logic, you fill in those gaps with …the wrong logic.
Find out her logic, what she is thinking, feeling; what is motivating her to make the choices she is making. This is, if you are willing and if she is willing. And then, if you sat with her, you’d ask questions gently, not in a pushy, overbearing, prosecutor attorney kind of ways. Sitting with her would be a different context than in a courthouse, and so different kind of asking and listening is required.
For her to talk with you honestly, she would need to be so inclined (to be honest), and she would need to feel safe with you, not negatively criticized. So establishing an atmosphere of safety and empathy would be a must.
Could you meet with her, just-for-information, that is, to try to learn about her, from the source?
anita
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