A note on hungry ghosts:

Dharma Post #4: Hungry Ghost

Hello Anita-

I hope you are better now, I worried for you as you seemed upset in your message dated the 28 Oct. Please I am here for you if ever you need.

This conversation is proving to be deeply beneficial, when I met with my therapist on Monday evening I was somewhat astounded by the progress made in the 2 weeks since I last saw her. Indeed today marks 2 weeks exactly since I discovered this man of whom I speak was seeing someone else, we argued and I blocked him. Time has lost its sense of meaning – I have been on such a journey in such a short time.

I’ve moved past the gritty pain and can see a bigger picture now. My anger with him has subsided and I feel an urge to reconnect with him but I am holding off for now- it may not be wise to act on this feeling and I am cautious of my motivations. (I do miss him.)

Regarding a mothers love:

Yes, I can tell you how my mother showed me love but I did not notice. In advice she gave, and times she remained silent and allowed me to learn from my own mistakes. In my older years, my mother has been more outspoken and supportive. She always made sure I was safe, warm and had food. These are things I took for granted when I was a child – it just *was*.

That isn’t to say I do not have my issues with my mother, much as I love her too. She does not listen, does not talk of her feelings and is bloody stubborn at times. But hey, she is human like we. We forgive our shortcomings because we love one another.

Anyway- this is about me and I cannot speak of your relationship with your mother, as I know very little. However, we can get onto this matter of your mother if you wish, perhaps the following framework of a hungry ghost works for you too? (Or maybe not.)

Regarding the Hungry Ghosts:

The link I sent to you: when I read it a second time I felt it was somewhat misleading. I do not feel the author has the same understanding as I. A much better description is in this book – Thoughts without a Thinker: http://markepsteinmd.com/?p=1 (which I highly recommend!)

As a psychoanalyst and Buddhist, he has a good professional standing to explain the psychological and spiritual phenomena of the hungry ghosts.

First I type an excerpt from his book “Thoughts without a Thinker.”

Second I relate that to my own situation.

“…hungry ghosts represent a a fusion of rage and desire. Tormented by unfulfilled cravings and insatiably demanding of impossible satisfactions, the Hungry Ghosts are searching for gratification of old unfulfilled needs whose time has passed. They are beings who have uncovered a terrible emptiness within themselves, who cannot see the impossibility of correcting something that has already happened. Their ghostlike state represents their attachment to the past.

In addition, these beings, while impossibly hungry and thirsty, cannot drink or eat without causing themselves terrible pain or indigestion. The very attempts to satisfy themselves cause more pain…. these are beings who cannot take in a present-day, albeit transient, satisfaction. They remain obsessed with the fantasy of achieving complete release from the pain of their past and are stubbornly unaware that their desire is a fantasy. It is this knowledge that such people are estranged from, for their fantasy must be owned as a fantasy. The hungry ghosts must come into contact with the ghostlike nature of their own longings.

…. [the author gives an example from his professional practice, a woman called Tara, who was “searching insatiably for the kind of nourishment that she had once needed but that was now inappropriate to who she was as an adult woman… she feared what she most desired and was unable to experience the transitory satisfactions available to her.”]…

In the traditional depiction of the Wheel of Life, the Bodhisattva of Compassion appears in the Realm of the Hungry Ghosts carrying a bowl filled with objects symbolic of spiritual nourishment. The message is clear: food and drink will not satisfy the unfulfilled needs of this realm. Only the non-judgemental awareness perfected by the Buddha offers relief.

…This desperate longing for inexhaustible abundance is  very common in the Western psyche, where is masquerades under the heading of “low self esteem”…. the Western student afflicted with such feelings must make the emptiness itself the object of his or her meditation. Only then can self-loathing be transformed into wisdom, a task in which psychotherapy and meditation may well collaborate. “

1- …hungry ghosts represent a a fusion of rage and desire.

Indeed, my anger has been a focus of this thread and was the focus of my therapy session yesterday. And desire? Yep.

Rage, anxiety and desire.

2- Uncovering a terrible emptiness within themselves

Through this event, I have finally had the strength and courage to face a deep well of loneliness and pain that I have oft avoided.

I am grateful for having met this man, who reminded me so much of myself. He encouraged a side of myself that was tenacious and empowered (not through words as such, he just brought that side out of me) and therefore, given me the strength to tackle this ominous beast.

“The real meaning of enlightenment is to gaze with undimmed eyes on all darkness.” – Nikos Kazantzakis

I sit in this well of grief, a watchful deer. I sit through this pain and discomfort, and it is passing over me.

3- In addition, these beings, while impossibly hungry and thirsty, cannot drink or eat without causing themselves terrible pain or indigestion. The very attempts to satisfy themselves cause more pain….

I read this as being my anxiety issues. I am sufficiently anxious that I cannot ‘eat or drink’ or ‘enjoy the transitory pleasures’- I am too worried that I will be rejected. I am too worried that I will be rejected to voice my true feelings, so I with-hold. I get involved with people believing I will not fall in love with them, and then fall in love with them anyway. (By then its too late: I am in the realm of hungry ghosts.)

Ironically I get rejected because of this: either because people think I do not care /or/ because the feelings come out in intense bursts -usually in an argument or something- when the attempts to suppress my feelings have just made me anxious and behave in a strained way.

*Another* point that came up yesterday is that I am the continual pursuer, I voluntarily take all the responsibility of maintaining the relationship upon myself. I get too anxious to ‘wait and see’ how long it might take for a guy to message me first, or invite me out. I can’t handle that out of control feeling and presume that he will never take the initiative. So I do it, again and again and again. I get more anxious and an insecurity that I am not really wanted or needed starts to grow within me. This just fuels the cycle and I probably end up coming off as demanding and needy.

This is the kind of issue that ought to be addressed with CBT or psychotherapy, I am not sure meditation in this case will quell the intense anxiety that I feel in that moment.

4- They remain obsessed with the fantasy of achieving complete release from the pain of their past and are stubbornly unaware that their desire is a fantasy.

What fantasy and unrealistic expectation underpins all of my pain and anxiety?

Do I just accept that I will always feel this degree of anxiety and suffering in my romantic relationships – is this just part of who I am? Built deep into my psyche? Am I really just picking bad partners?

Yesterday I was surprised to discover that a close friend (whom I would marry in a heartbeat if I could) speaks with his other close friends about lots of matters close to his heart. Matters and conversations that have always eluded me with him. The potential for us to have them is there: he has them with others. I have those conversations with others. We do not have them with one another, but we do with others.

5- In the traditional depiction of the Wheel of Life, the Bodhisattva of Compassion appears in the Realm of the Hungry Ghosts carrying a bowl filled with objects symbolic of spiritual nourishment. The message is clear: food and drink will not satisfy the unfulfilled needs of this realm. Only the non-judgemental awareness perfected by the Buddha offers relief.

Your comment regarding this self-help crap, you said:

“How can a lifetime of reading books fill this deep well of pain”? (roughly)

This really stuck with me. It put responsibility back onto me. For too long I looked at these posers for an answer, a salvation. For too long, it was my ‘food and drink’ – because a loving romantic relationship has proved inaccessible to me. Now I know I am really on the way to working this through.

6- This desperate longing for inexhaustible abundance is  very common in the Western psyche, where is masquerades under the heading of “low self esteem”

Indeed, the self help literature bullshit I’ve read would describe me as ‘having low self-esteem, and therefore picking relationships that I subconsciously know are destined to fail.’

As we discussed this is so general as to miss the point almost altogether. Not only that but they’ll slap a demeaning label on me and my partners of choice. In fact this thinking has caused me to catastrophise: “I like him, therefore there must be something wrong with him, he must be emotionally unavailable too…. this is all hopeless, destined to fail before we start!”

These self-help guru wankers give with one hand and take with the other.

7- the Western student afflicted with such feelings must make the emptiness itself the object of his or her meditation. Only then can self-loathing be transformed into wisdom

Which is what we are doing here. (Thank you once more.) And what I am doing outside of this conversational exchange.

…that was a long one eh?

With love and compassion,

Feathering my Nest

Dear Anita,

You wrote first…..

“I read the first part of your post, typed away and then lost my post to you, an emotional one, where I did the exercise of talking like a five year old myself. ……

The five year old exercise you did above, you did well: your five year old reached mine.”

And then….

“I am not at the emotional state I was in yesterday.”

I wondered if what I had written had triggered a strong reaction within yourself.

And wanted you to know: that the support you have offered me in this difficult time, I am willing to reciprocate to the best of my ability. If that is what you would like too.

Hope that makes sense. 🙂

-Feathering

Heya Anita,

Ok. You give so much to others and I wanted to check.

I think I have passed through the eye of the storm.
There are still behaviors and issues that I need to unpick so I can put the breaks on them.

At the moment I feel quite stuck- I don’t see how I can get past my problems without being in a relationship and having to confront those problems. But equally, I can’t seem to get into one because of my problems.
I don’t trust that whomever I choose to date does not have the same or similar issues. Its that line of logic often found in that stupid self help stuff: “you pick unavailable people because you are unavailable.” It undermines me from the very beginning and makes me think that all my attempts are futile, its very demoralizing.

I did text the gentleman in question and basically told him:

I think the situation is rubbish, I keep finding or learning interesting things that I think he would enjoy. That I was sorry for being angry and could believe his comment that my “Friendship wasn’t very friendly.” That I had come to accept I had issues. And that I still have this gift of lavender balm for him, which I bought as a thank-you for having my back when I was assaulted.

That was two days ago and I was feeling very anxious that I would be rejected after sending that text. So I sat with the anxious feeling instead of looking to see if he had replied. The anxious feeling has subsided now. (Still haven’t looked though.)

With thanks,

Feathering my Nest.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Feathering my nest.

Hey Anita,

I hope you had a good weekend.

Thank you for your reply, I agree with most of what you have to say aside from one thing, its a subtle point but important.

You suggest I was unloved as a child: it is true there were times when I was rejected and I was not treated with love. You say – when a child feels this pain once they feel it forever. The child’s sense of time it not like our sense of time and it feels like forever. My parents didn’t love me once – and as a five year old this ‘once’ becomes forever.

However its also true that there were times when I was loved by my parents. As humans, they are not perfect. I think this is probably closer to the truth than “My parents never loved me.” The ‘stubborn fantasy’ is that my parents were perfect. The expectation of continual unconditional love is the fantasy. The pain of multiple rejections (which, to the child mind, were forever) is still very real and very valid and needs to be honored.

It is important to recognize this: I have a good relationship with my parents now. Sometimes they piss me off, push my buttons. However there is no doubt that they love me and support me now. That is in the only way they know how – and sometimes, that is not what I need at that moment- I can see why I developed the neurosis and sore points that I did. I can see that they are both wounded also, and they are making the best of a life that challenges them as well.

This is the middle path and one that appropriately serves my needs as an adult.

Since writing this thread, I’ve made an effort to talk about my anxieties and feelings with my friends more, in the past I very very rarely discussed my emotional life and romantic relationships. My friends have given me love, support and understanding. Validated me. This experience has been healing.

I texted this guy and asked to meet so we would talk in person (this argument all happened over text message, which is embarrassing.) He has written back but I am sitting with this anxious feeling and training myself to tolerate it. When I read his message, I will not react but I will respond. This means waiting for the anxiety to subside before I write back- waiting a day or so.

If we meet, while I do not expect us to ‘fix’ the problem and get back together, I do hope that I can be honest and vulnerable with him. (To a degree: there is a point where I think I will just trigger myself into more relational anxiety or avoidance.)
My hope is that we can meet and understand one another better. Last time we meet to discuss a relational issue the outcome was positive, we both left feeling energized and refreshed. He said he was proud of us both. I will remind him of this if he is hesitant to meet and explain the goal is of understanding one another. I will stand my ground because this is important to me.

With metta,

Feathering

• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by Feathering my nest.