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why was I born, and why now and here

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  • #438560
    shinnen
    Participant

    Lately I’ve been asking myself ……

    “Why was I born here and now?”

    “Is there anything distinctive about me;

    or am I simply the result of circumstances and genetics

    in the same way that there are no completely identical stones,

    nothing special, just different?”

    … john

     

    #438575
    Roberta
    Participant

    Dear John

    I find the teachings on” what makes a precious human birth” counteract any extensional thoughts.

    Each of us are uniquely the same – we all want happiness & freedom from suffering.

    When we joyfully set aside the self centered grasping mind and purposefully take care of others and the planet.

    Love contentment connection & joy abound.

    regards Roberta

     

    #438583
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi John

    I believe what is distinct is a soul. I don’t know what you believe? We are made up of our experiences. We are ultimately egotistic animals. We are here as a species to breed and to help each other. What is unique are the different ways we can help each other and the lives we touch. Every job in the world is a form of helping.

    What do you think?

    Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏

    #438614
    shinnen
    Participant

    Hi Helcat,

    I discovered Buddhism 33 years ago. It was a life altering experience. I don’t believe or disbelieve in a soul. The same goes for God. They, along with most concept, belong to the myriad of things I have no reason to believe, or not believe. Having said that, I am ‘very’ suspicious of my ego, which I suspect has a vested interest in telling me how unique, different, special, etc. I am. As humans, the primary way we evaluate the world, what we find threatening, good, bad, right, wrong, evil, true, fearful, the list is endless, is by comparison. It’s a survival mechanism, and as such is always skewed toward our self interest …. ego, as you say. I see no reason to believe that I’m special or unique;  different …. sure, but, so is everything else.

    …… john

    #438624
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi John

    Thank you for sharing your insights. I’m happy for you that you discovered Buddhism. Would you like to share how it was a life altering experience for you?

    As an ex-language teacher I think that is the problem. As social intelligence creatures, we need to communicate and language is imperfect. Society and time of course change things. Which behaviours are and aren’t considered socially acceptable. This influences the way that we feel about things. But it is always the same behaviour. The same behaviour in different contexts can have a different meaning too. Fascinating stuff!

    I get what you mean when you say different. That is what I meant when I said unique. See what I mean about how people interpret language. 😂

    Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏

    #438639
    shinnen
    Participant

    Hi Helcat,

    Oh yes, I’m very aware of the pitfalls of language. It’s especially imperfect at defining emotions,

    which people all too often attempt. I see language as, for the most part, an intellectual tool and is very poor at accurately

    conveying feelings. Every statement/question has a premise, whether or not the speaker is aware of what it is.

    I love to watch the manipulators: politicians, advertisers, etc., to see how they craft their message; although, unfortunately

    these days the message is mostly contained in visuals, intended to appeal to one’s self image.

    But I’m sure that you’re aware of all this, have been an English teacher.

    …… john

    #438999
    shinnen
    Participant

    Hi Helcat

    I have to apologize for not answering your request about sharing my experiences in discovering buddhism. I have only ever shared this with one other person, who is very close to me; and to explore my deep person feeling on an open forum, would be very uncomfortable. Please forgive me; it has nothing to do with you or anyone else here.
    …… john

    #439006
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi John

    Please don’t worry about it! 😊 I’m so sorry I forgot to reply because there has been a lot going on for me.

    I can understand not wanting to share something so personal and private.

    I couldn’t agree with you more about your thoughts on language and politics. You are very insightful!

    I’ve really enjoyed your posts and our conversations as well. ❤️

    Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏

    #439081
    Chris Tao
    Participant

    Hi John,

    I’ve also asked this question for the last 30 yrs or so. I have concluded a few things. One is that for me it is special to have the experience of being me and observing this life. There is however nothing special about me other than the skills and personality we develope, this makes us feel seperate from other things but for me is just a fun illusion that allows the experience.

    The main learning was that trying to gain any meaningful understanding of life through our mind is not possible.  So your questioning will forever be unanswered. Understanding the truth of life, to take a phrase from Alan Watts among others, is like a knife trying to cut itself, it can’t be done. However, I do feel that if u are said knife, if u let go of trying to cut yourself up to see what you are made of and learn what u are, you will then be left with the experience of being the knife. On a shallow level, u can just enjoy being a knife and cutting your way through your experience until your life as a knife ends and u are crushed. Or u can fully embrace just being a knife and no more and maybe touch and feel the essence of what u are beyond the knife, when the knife is crushed, what are u then. Perhaps like a wave that crashes and then discovers it’s part of the ocean. It’s lost the experience of being a wave, and could never have had that experience if it knew it was the ocean also all along. So I suggest letting go of the questioning of life and looking for meaning but use any peaceful moments to just sit with the experience of being you and see where it takes you.

    Apologies for making it sound a bit poetic,  all the talk of love, compassion, etc is all very well, but for me, this is just junk food for spiritual tourists.  Sightseeing. The world is not full of love and care, it exists, but equally it’s balanced with death and destruction, there is no need to choose one over another or even care. Just duality, doing its thing and being tied to being ‘loving, nice, compassionate,  is just a choice nothing else. It feels nice as the ego thinks it’s competing well but you are simply a knife selecting what u will and won’t cut. I don’t think either enhance your ability to feel your true essence and too much attention to it will take u away from this further. So I consider myself mostly a lovely person because I’ve not got any child trauma or things that made me nasty, but i don’t feel anger or disappointment if I’m not always full of love and patience, I’m just being me. Too much buddhist text emphasises duality choices when ultimately it’s feeding the ego and reducing your true connection with yourself

    #439108
    shinnen
    Participant

    Hi Chris. Thanks for your thoughts …… john

    #439110
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Shinnen:

    ‘Why was I born here and now?’“- some people believe in destiny (believing that one is born with a predetermined future); others believe that the place and time of our births is a matter of random  chance. I believe in the latter.

    Is there anything distinctive about me“?- yes, absolutely! Your curiosity and intelligence stand out to me. Not everyone dives deep into existential questions like you do.

    or am I simply the result of circumstances and genetics“- while circumstances and genetics play a significant role in shaping who we are, there is an entire realm of experiences, choices and consciousness that add layers to one’s identity. You interact with the world and create meaning in it beyond your circumstances and genetics.

    in the same way that there are no completely identical stones, nothing special, just different?”- different but not insignificant. Each one of us has our own unique form and beauty- physical and otherwise-  that might not be immediately visible. Your experiences, your thoughts, your feelings- they create a mosaic that’s singularly yours.

    It’s all about what you see, and what you do- in the world- with your uniqueness: are you isolated from or interactive with others; do you choose to harm or to help people.

    I don’t believe or disbelieve in a soul. The same goes for God. They, along with most concept, belong to the myriad of things I have no reason to believe, or not believe“- reads like you prioritize evidence, logic and reason over beliefs based on faith and intuition, a rationalist and a skeptic, needing strong evidence before you believe in something.  There is not enough evidence for you to believe in a soul and a god, nor is there enough evidence for you to believe that there is no such thing as a soul or a god.

    I am ‘very’ suspicious of my ego, which I suspect has a vested interest in telling me how unique, different, special, etc. I am. As humans, the primary way we evaluate the world, what we find threatening, good, bad, right, wrong, evil, true, fearful, the list is endless, is by comparison… always skewed toward our self interest.. ego, as you say. I see no reason to believe that I’m special or unique;  different.. sure, but, so is everything else.“- you are a skeptic in regard to the existence or non-existence of soul and god, and a skeptic in regard to you being unique and special. Not enough evidence to convince you one way or the other.

    There is a desire in you to be unique and special, you may call it the ego’s desire. We all have an innate need for recognition. We crave (or craved, before giving up) acknowledgment and appreciation as someone unique and special. We all want (or wanted.. before giving up) to stand out. Nobody likes to be ordinary or forgotten.

    There are two sources for feeling unique and special: (1) an external/ acquired source that is dependent on others. We focus outward and compare ourselves to others. If we have significantly more physical beauty, more I.Q, more education, more money, etc., then we (may) feel unique and special (for some time), (2) an internal/ intrinsic  source that is independent on others. We focus inward, focusing today on becoming more and better than we were yesterday, comparing ourselves not to others, but to who we were before.

    The first require others to see and assess you (ex., observers can see what vehicle you drive and they can easily find out how much it costs); the second requires you to see and assess yourself according to what you choose to value. The first is reactive, the second is creative.

    anita

    #439111
    anita
    Participant

    correction: independent of others…. the first requires others

    #439239
    shinnen
    Participant

    Hi Anita,
    Thanks for taking the time to reply to my concerns. It’s always interesting to see how someone interprets one’s message.
    It’s very difficult to convey the complexity of one beliefs and understanding, in particular how they were arrived at,
    without a face to face back and forth; and even then we tend to interpret what others say, based on our own assumptions.
    However, I will try.
    I base most of my understanding on two sources, reason (as you observed) and insight/inspiration, of which I
    have had many. These things come right out of the blue at times, completely unconnected to what I’m thinking about. The most
    all consuming one though, was my discovery that I am, and have always been, a Buddhist. (I was a Catholic at the time.)
    I know it sounds ridiculous; but that’s what overcame me, 33 years ago, as I was walking down the street.
    I have had many many of these moments over the years, about all sorts of subjects. None, however, was as all consuming as that one.
    Some seem childishly simple, like the realization that …… The only truth is ‘What is.’ I came to this conclusion after many years
    struggling with the question ‘What is truth?’ Others have had more to do with Buddhism:
    What is the Buddha saying with the mudra signifying Wisdom and Compassion, or what is the koan of finger pointing at moon telling us.
    The list is long. Yes, I like to be able to justify to myself what I believe, with reason;
    but every so often understanding comes from …. who knows where. Let’s face it, if we didn’t believe many many thing, we wouldn’t be
    able to function at all, we’d be nervous wrecks. Would I drive my car if I didn’t believe I would arrive at my destination …… probably not.
    You raise many points of view, which I don’t presently embrace; but maybe, some day I’ll see the light and say, “You know what Anita, you
    were right about that.”
    … john

    #439249
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Shinnen/John:

    You are welcome, and thank you for your reply. I need to have more time and focus to thoroughly read and reply, and so, I will be back to you tomorrow.

    anita

    #439275
    anita
    Participant

    Dear John:

    It’s very difficult to convey the complexity of one beliefs and understanding, in particular how they were arrived at, without a face to face back and forth; and even then we tend to interpret what others say, based on our own assumptions“- I agree.

    However, I will try“- and so will I.

    The only truth is ‘What is.’ I came to this conclusion after many years struggling with the question ‘What is truth?’…  but every so often understanding comes from.. who knows where“-

    – I will take a moment to listen to an answer to What is truth?, an answer from who knows where (I will type out whatever I hear).. it is not easy to do this, as I hear a voice saying: who do you think you are? some self-doubting, self-critical voice.. nonetheless:

    The truth is I love you.

    I am pausing here: the above sounds like some religious sentiment, as in I am your god, and I love you (something I doubt)

    Back to the question: what is truth?

    Answer: what you want it to be (self-serving).

    Ask again: what is truth?

    Answer: Life is not worthwhile without Love.

    This is it, got it. This is Truth. I have no doubt.

    There are no following thoughts doubting, like what followed previous answers.

    I wish I was a giant Being collecting all the lost loveless people into my arms. Oh.. I wish I was god, or said otherwise: a loving god is an image made up by humans yearning to be loved.

    The Tragedy of human society is alienation, isolation, loneliness, pervasive suspiciousness, greed, unchecked desire for power-over, for dominance.

    Am I getting carried away, John?

    anita

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