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March 23, 2023 at 3:07 pm #416632TheItFactorParticipant
Hi everyone,
I’ve been an active Tiny Buddha reader, including the Forums’ and I think the input, empathy and compassion here is amazing, so I decided to share. I have been dating someone for what would be a year in couple of weeks (status is currently TBD, I will get to that), this may be a long one, so bear with me and thank you for reading.
I am a woman in my early 40s, never married, lived in different countries, I feel that I have a fulfilling life (job I love, amazing friends, things I like doing on my own, passions). He is 39, has two young kids, separated 2 years ago. In the last 10 years I dated, had relationships, was single, you name it. He was married for same amount of time. Our 1st date was long and very fun, I was upfront and asked him about divorce and couple other things that I felt needed to be addressed. He was upfront, which I liked. His profile said he was having fun but open to relationship. We proceeded to date, he expressed that he’d prefer to date casually at the time, I said ok this is very new so I get it. 2 months in he shared that he likes me and is scared, I said I didn’t want to put pressure on and even though dating casually is not my jam usually, I can understand where he is at (juggling many things including home sale, moving, child care etc.) After 3 or so months we both stopped going on other dates – I only found this out later – went on summer trips etc. I should probably mention that the behaviors were not what I would describe as casual, we hold hands and are affectionate in public, he met my friends and I met couple of his. Majority of free time is spent together and it is a great vibe, we enjoy sharing things and experiencing food, travel, music etc.
It has been very easy and effortless. From where I stand, we have amazing chemistry, passion (for life, not drama, which can be sometimes misinterpreted as passion) and are compatible, which to me is super important. Feelings naturally developed on both sides. I was aware of how hard separating was as he was open about it (due to basically being incompatible in lifestyle and decision making, very civil and friendly after, he always spoke nicely of her even tho sometimes he is frustrated) and he shared his fears of being trapped and feeling obligated. I told him that I want him to only do things he truly wants to do, not things he feels he should be doing and spoke to him about how I want to continue just what we do and don’t need to move onto more serious things, which is truly how I feel, I value time spent together and respect that we both have responsibilities.
6 months in he expressed that his feelings of fear are present again – fear of being trapped, fearing that even tho he does not feel obligated with me he thinks it would come, fearing there is better match out there. As transpired from the conversation, there was a little bit of peer pressure (hey, you just separated and you’re getting into a relationship again, you should be dating etc.) but mostly I felt fear of commitment and perhaps mistrust in his own feelings. He said he thinks he wants to go on dates with other people – we have never officially became exclusive but we have both behaved exclusive for a while at that point. He acknowledged that what we have is great, in fact he felt like he went from not good to great but said he doesn’t even know what the variety is out there. While it is harder for me to grasp some of the info, the fact that he lack experience I can understand. I said if you feel like you want to go on dates I will not stop you, but if things between you and I change we have to address it and/or if I am no longer feeling good I have to remove myself, I also said that if I desired to get to know someone, I’d go on a date as well, made sure he knew it would not be out of spite. I chatted to some people as neither of us ever delated dating apps but that was it. Later I learned that he never went on any dates as feeling he could gave him enough “freedom”
This came up few times for the following 3 months and gradually kinda died down, he expressed he was not using apps anymore couple of months later. We decided to go on vacation together and I met his kids before NY, partially accidental but it went well and we had a good time. Fast forward after vacay, my gut was being iffy so I asked him how he felt about us. He said he thought things between us are really good but he doesn’t want to be committed. This caught me off guard at this point, almost a year in. I asked why, he reiterated his previous feelings and said that if there is a perfect match out there he feels like he owes it to himself to look for it (imo there is no such thing, but I understand how that is a reasoning allowing one not to commit), said he knows it’s maybe something he’d regret and that most people would be ok with where he is and some friends would tell him he’s an idiot. At the time I said I wanted things to be what they are and stated that I am not sure how long I’d feel that way. I needed some time to process, subconsciously, and I can fully admit that I did not want to end things because of how well we fit together.
Few weeks later we spent an amazing weekend together, it was very attentive and affectionate, filled with food, some chores and fun things, lots of intimacy. At the end of it I felt overwhelmed and had an emotional conversation with him, saying I felt confused because things are great, yet he wants to date other women. I said I was sure I wanted to be with him and that I would like for him to be sure as well and to feel safe and secure with me, and I suggested we take a break so we can reevaluate. He said he was honest with me and there was nothing to reevaluate – this was absolutely not something expected at the end of 3 amazing days, he was confused (we talked about this a month ago and I seemed kind on board I guess) and hurt. Within a week he reached out few times and we had a conversation about this. I clarified that I do want to be with him but also don’t want to be settled for and cannot compromise my integrity as I know I would be getting hurt more. He said he misses me and he’s been thinking about it every day and that he’s been asking friends too. At that time I think he was trying to find a solution to his imminent wants and needs, looking into how to not feel trapped eventually in a relationship, sayin that what comes out for him is an open relationships – I feel perhaps seeing if I would be inclined to go back to where we were. I can understand this as in his perspective I was always ok with it so far. In my perspective we had been acting exclusive for the majority of the time (this is something he is aware of as well). I said I did not want to engage in one as it requires a level of maturity I don’t think either of us have (as OR or Poly basically means you are involved and fostering more than one relationship etc). The conversation was emotional on both ends but I felt better for expressing what is a no go for me and for him having clarity on that. He said he knew he had a lot to work through and that he knew it was a decision he has to make. I said we should not communicate as that way it is truly a break and we had a nice good bye.
We have not spoken since (almost 3 weeks) and I guess what I am looking for is some input/experience from anyone willing to give it. I have never done a break before, nor have I ever gotten back with anyone. I did think about breaking it off and if I am being honest, the only thing that stopped me is that there are no deal breakers/red flags or behaviors I dislike (ahem, other than the fear to commit, of course) and the compatibility in my opinion is tremendous. It is not that him or I are extraordinary, yes, I think he is great and he says I’m amazing but it is really about how it comes together in harmony and similar needs, values and sharing. I know that what I said can be viewed as an ultimatum as it came kind of suddenly and it would have been better to have more of a conversation than an emotional outburst (which I feel we did have some days later), even tho to me it feels like I had to communicate my boundaries and let him know how I felt and give him space to consider things. In the last conversation I asked him to think about how he felt about himself when he was with me, about us and the relationship. He is quite analytical and in my observation he doesn’t trust and is avoiding his feelings maybe as they let him down the wrong path before.
I am well aware there is a great likelihood of things not working out and at this point I have said what I had to say and I have no control over the outcome. And as much as I would like to be in a relationship with him I know I will be ok if that doesn’t happen. I miss spending time with him, of course, and sometimes wonder what he’s thinking. Has anyone been in a similar boat, and even if not, what’s your take on this pickle? As someone who tends to pay attention to actions of others more closely than their words, for the first time ever I feel like that betrayed me, as what he’s been doing is contradicting what he says.
March 23, 2023 at 3:12 pm #416635TheItFactorParticipantI feel like I should add that this post describes the difficulties but in the whole of this experience it has mostly been filled with fun, sharing, opening up, excitement, intimacy and emotional connection. I thought that was important to add, as the post describes the tough bits that were also a part of it, maybe small time wise but significant nonetheless.
March 23, 2023 at 3:47 pm #416637RobertaParticipantHi TheltFactor
I think you decision to call it a day was a wise one your ethical/moral boundries were being compromised by his need to feel free to date others which may have been ok in the early stage but as time went by exclusivity would normally be the next step if both people are single. He may start to date other people and then come to a more settled decision about whether open relationships is what he really wants.
March 23, 2023 at 3:53 pm #416638TheItFactorParticipantHi Roberta,
thank you for your reply. I do feel that it was what I had to do. Perhaps I should clarify that we have not officially ended things and currently the break is taking place. I imagine there will be a conversation at some point, initiated by him.
As for open relationships, I fully understand that that is something that looks appealing to him, imo he is traditional to the T and would not be excited about such arrangement but that is for him to find out, not me.
Currently, I am curious what he will say when the time comes but I am also just living my life as always.March 24, 2023 at 2:25 am #416645TeeParticipantDear TheltFactor,
I too think it was a good decision that you set a boundary and said No to an open relationship.
It seems you at first weren’t too bothered by his unwillingness to commit and his talk about wanting to “explore” what’s out there. But as the time went by and the relationship got deeper, you naturally developed strong feelings and wanted to become exclusive and serious. He however hasn’t changed his stance (he said he feels no need to “reevaluate”), in spite of deep intimacy and great compatibility between you. Which tells me that he indeed has some fears and blocks, which won’t go away on their own, even if you two have amazing compatibility.
Actually I believe that his alleged desire to explore other women and engage in an open relationship might be a cop out. You said he never went on dates while he was with you (although he was regularly mentioning his fear that there is a better match out there). You also said he is very conservative. So I guess he doesn’t really want an open relationship, but rather, he wants to have his cake and eat it too: he wants the non-committed status with you, while still enjoying the intimacy and great time with you.
I clarified that I do want to be with him but also don’t want to be settled for and cannot compromise my integrity as I know I would be getting hurt more.
I believe you’ve realized that you don’t want to be in a casual relationship any more, even though you agreed to it in the beginning. It’s completely natural that after a year of dating and developing a strong bond, you want to be his only one. You don’t want to listen to his stories about a better match out there – as if you’re not good enough. As if you’re a backup until something better comes along.
I mean, even if he doesn’t really want anyone else, his mind is telling him that he should be wanting it. And I think it’s a defense mechanism on his part, because he for some reason doesn’t want to commit. Perhaps because his marriage failed, or perhaps because he still has unresolved issues with his wife. There is a reason why he separated but hasn’t got divorced – maybe it’s not just logistical, but something else?
In any case, he seems unavailable at the moment – unavailable to fully commit to you. When you tried to pressure him and make him reevaluate, he came up with an even less committal solution, a solution that creates even more distance, which is an open relationship. Which means that his “solution” is to run further away from you, rather than get closer. Which shows how strong his fear of commitment is.
Currently, I am curious what he will say when the time comes but I am also just living my life as always.
It’s good that you’re not desperate to have him in your life. You said you have a fulfilling life, and you also respect yourself enough not to settle for something that would demean you.
You’ve also realized that a non-committed but exclusive relationship is not an option for you either, because it would only hurt you more. I wish you to stay strong and not settle for less than a fully committed, loving relationship!
March 25, 2023 at 2:34 pm #416658AlinaParticipantHi TheltFactor,
as I am at the same point as you, recovering from an intense relationship that turned out to be toxic – let me express my feelings evoked by your post.
A description of his behaviour seems obvious to me – permanent manipulation. Putting you on an emotional swing – wants and doesn’t want commitment, going mute , “punishing” you? Seems to care of his wellbeing only.
Where is your place in this kind of relationship?
Wishing you self compassion and self love – all the best.
March 27, 2023 at 11:55 am #416806TheItFactorParticipantHi Tee,
thank you for taking the time to read and reply.
It seems you at first weren’t too bothered by his unwillingness to commit and his talk about wanting to “explore” what’s out there. But as the time went by and the relationship got deeper, you naturally developed strong feelings and wanted to become exclusive and serious.
Yes, until a certain point it did not bother me, I don’t expect anyone to commit very early on, as I want to make sure the potential partner is a good match and we share values and other important aspects. It also did not bother me for a while as we both were not desiring to go on dates for about 6 months, basically exclusive without the label (exclusive in all actions). When this changed I expressed my discomfort and said what would work for me at this point and what would not.
He however hasn’t changed his stance (he said he feels no need to “reevaluate”), in spite of deep intimacy and great compatibility between you. Which tells me that he indeed has some fears and blocks, which won’t go away on their own, even if you two have amazing compatibility.
Yes, he said that the eve I expressed how I felt, he reached out after some time and shared how he processed everything I said and the desire to work through things for himself. Aka, actually reevaluate. I said great and left it at that (convo was face to face).
Actually I believe that his alleged desire to explore other women and engage in an open relationship might be a cop out.
I agree with you here, mostly because it is apparent that he – whether it’s conscious or not – is avoiding his feelings as those did get him in a pickle before, this was also confirmed by a therapist.
I mean, even if he doesn’t really want anyone else, his mind is telling him that he should be wanting it. And I think it’s a defense mechanism on his part, because he for some reason doesn’t want to commit. Perhaps because his marriage failed, or perhaps because he still has unresolved issues with his wife. There is a reason why he separated but hasn’t got divorced – maybe it’s not just logistical, but something else?
You are excellent with hitting the nail on the head here. I believe, from what has been shared openly, fear of entrapment and getting hurt is a major issue. The divorce is close, it has not been fully resolved because of finances, property sale, taxes etc. They share custody 50/50 and get along quite well, even tho both parties are very clear no reconciliation would ever happen. He speaks of her with respect and recognizes they simply were not a good match.
When you tried to pressure him and make him reevaluate, he came up with an even less committal solution, a solution that creates even more distance, which is an open relationship.
Yes, initially he was looking for how to make this work within the “safe” realm (what he perceives as safe, aka not losing my freedom, because atm freedom is opposite of being trapped in a relationship – this, of course, is not the truth but it is how his perception is working at this very time, I believe). He is speaking regularly to his therapist and some other sources etc., whether this will help only future can tell. Freedom to me is the ability to make a choice every day, but that’s a whole other post haha.
It’s good that you’re not desperate to have him in your life. You said you have a fulfilling life, and you also respect yourself enough not to settle for something that would demean you.
You’ve also realized that a non-committed but exclusive relationship is not an option for you either, because it would only hurt you more. I wish you to stay strong and not settle for less than a fully committed, loving relationship!
Thank you for your kind words, I feel like you have a lot of understanding and know well where I am coming from with this post, I really appreciate that. And yes, I will not back down from what I told him (and this would be same with anyone else). What does non-committed but exclusive mean? I grew up in Europe and moved to North America as an adult years ago, some of these labels still escape me 🙂 European romantic relationships are bit less complicated when it comes to labels, dating is bit more straight forward, so sometimes I still learn.
I spoke to him briefly yesterday after 3 weeks of no contact that I asked for, he said he’d like to meet and talk. I shall see what he has to say, only thing I know at this point is that he wants to address the connection we have and what he’d like to focus on. I know exactly what I want and would only consider continuing if there was a plan to properly address the fears he is struggling with and a strategy on how this can be worked on the best to both of our benefits.
March 27, 2023 at 11:56 am #416807TheItFactorParticipantI just see the my replies for you, Tee, are a bit jumbled, I did my best to include quotes and answer them, my apologies for the mess! I am still new to this forum.
March 27, 2023 at 12:06 pm #416808TheItFactorParticipantHi Alina,
Thank you for your input. I don’t know what your situation is so there is no way for me to determine if there is any correlation or similarity.
The relationship I described is not toxic (in my opinion, anyways), is simply lacked commitment on one side. I was never manipulated and he expressed from the very beginning he did not want to be exclusive (even tho we both stopped seeing other people after some time). I was ok with it until I was not so I had to tell him and express what my boundaries are. At no point was I uncomfortable, once I knew I wanted to be exclusive, I stated that and said if that is not what he wanted I am ok with it but cannot continue.
I dated a manipulative person years ago and I am confident I can smell manipulation from around the corner :), that relationship ended, among other things, also because he did not like that I would not be manipulated.
I am not sure what you mean by him punishing me by going mute, we spoke about things openly many times and we never ceased contact, once I knew I wanted to be committed I asked him to take some time and no to reach out or talk to me so that we both can have space to think (this was weeks of no contact then, upon my request).
I hope that clarifies some of your concerns. I know exactly what I want and what I would not settle for, ever.
I wish you strength coming out of what was in your relationship past and I hope healing is going well, it is sometimes hard as it is not linear. All the best.
March 27, 2023 at 2:46 pm #416802StellardustParticipantHi TheltFactor,
You seem to be the one who is grounded and you know what you want. Good for you! You seem to be a resilient woman.
The way I see it, is that Compatibility without Commitment means having temporary mutual fun maybe even for a long, long time. It means enjoying those moments spent together. That’s all.
Commitment is the glue that holds two people together for the present and for the future. In good times and not so good times.
At one point, in any new relationship, it takes both parties to want to commit fully together, as a team if you wish. Then to commit and work through the more sensitive issues that arise together.
This did not seem to be your story.
I wish you the very best moving forwards.
March 28, 2023 at 11:12 am #416831TheItFactorParticipantHi Stellardust,
wise words indeed. Thank you for replying. I was definitely sure what I wanted and ready to move on if these wants were not mutual. After some time apart and not talking to be able to think on what is important to each of us individually, he reached out and asked to meet. I let him talk freely, he said that he feels like his fears are preventing him from being happy and that he has been doing (and wants to continue) to work on that and arrived at a decision that he wants to be exclusive. Not because he missed me (which he did but it is something one can eventually get over) but because he realized how deep the connection ran and how we come together as a team. We discussed his fears, hang ups and other things in depth, same with mine as I have them too, of course.
It was a very long conversation that felt both, exhausting and enlightening, we were both vulnerable without asking the other person to be just that. He is sure he wants to be committed and says he knows exactly why. We spoke about strategies to address feelings as they come and how to be honest with each other in the moment. So I will take it from there, we have plans for some trips in spring and summer. I’m glad I stood my ground and I still feel the same, I would have been ok either way.
March 29, 2023 at 11:14 am #416846TeeParticipantDear TheltFactor,
you’re welcome!
I am glad things have progressed in a good direction since, and that he wants to be exclusive because he feels the deep bond as well. That’s great news!
The divorce is close, it has not been fully resolved because of finances, property sale, taxes etc. They share custody 50/50 and get along quite well, even tho both parties are very clear no reconciliation would ever happen. He speaks of her with respect and recognizes they simply were not a good match.
This is also good news that the divorce is coming soon and that they both see it as inevitable. It’s not something he/they are stalling and are uncertain about. I thought there is something unresolved between him and his wife, but it seems it’s really just practical/logistical and not to do with emotions.
What does non-committed but exclusive mean? I grew up in Europe and moved to North America as an adult years ago, some of these labels still escape me
Haha, I didn’t mean it as a label, I was just referring to the behavior. I think Stellardust explained it perfectly:
Compatibility without Commitment means having temporary mutual fun maybe even for a long, long time. It means enjoying those moments spent together. That’s all.
Commitment is the glue that holds two people together for the present and for the future. In good times and not so good times.
Some people can spend years, even decades, having a single partner, but living separately, wanting to have their freedom, wanting to only enjoy the good times together, but not really share too much in the bad times. I know a man who prefers not to be visited by his long-time girlfriend when he is sick or in a hospital. He’d rather not show himself in such a deprived state (he’s quite narcissistic btw). There is no depth in such a relationship, I believe. It stays superficial.
He is sure he wants to be committed and says he knows exactly why. We spoke about strategies to address feelings as they come and how to be honest with each other in the moment. So I will take it from there, we have plans for some trips in spring and summer. I’m glad I stood my ground and I still feel the same, I would have been ok either way.
I am really happy for you, Theltfactor. You really value yourself and are clear about your needs and preferences. And your boundaries. That’s fantastic. And I am happy that he is on board too, at least he expressed his willingness to try.
I do wish you all the best moving forward. Please post whenever you feel the need!
March 29, 2023 at 11:35 am #416848TeeParticipantHi TheltFactor,
I just want to expand on something. When I earlier said that your boyfriend was non-committed but exclusive, I was referring to his behavior of being emotionally not committed to you, since he thought he might find someone better. So in his heart and mind, he wasn’t committed to you, i.e. he didn’t choose you fully. He was exclusive in terms of dating, but emotionally he wasn’t committed.
But now, it seems he got committed emotionally – he said he doesn’t want to let his fear run the show and he doesn’t want to keep pushing you away (emotionally).
So I guess the key factor here is to be emotionally committed – committed in is heart and mind.
March 29, 2023 at 12:52 pm #416849TheItFactorParticipantTee!
Thanks so much for writing some more. I must say that it is refreshing to speak to a community that is compassionate and empathic. Thank you for your time and input.
I am glad things have progressed in a good direction since, and that he wants to be exclusive because he feels the deep bond as well. That’s great news!
After I reflected on the conversation, I think I was positively surprised most by the amount of introspection, he said he spoke to some peeps but mostly had to have inward conversations with himself and be honest about what is holding him back, and that recognizing that he was hurting my feeling was a huge revelation for him, he was feeling horrible about that which made him realize how much he cared. It was important to me that loneliness is not a reason for someone to reconsider as that would have not been acceptable for me.
This is also good news that the divorce is coming soon and that they both see it as inevitable. It’s not something he/they are stalling and are uncertain about. I thought there is something unresolved between him and his wife, but it seems it’s really just practical/logistical and not to do with emotions.
Yes, it is just logistics and some finalizing of financial matters as things change yearly and there has to be updates. They are ok with planning, so there is room for multiple weeks vacation even, and there has been some talk about Europe trip in the fall, initiated by him as he wants to see where I am from (and the food there is so good lol).
I am really happy for you, Theltfactor. You really value yourself and are clear about your needs and preferences. And your boundaries. That’s fantastic. And I am happy that he is on board too, at least he expressed his willingness to try.
Thank you, this is so nice to hear! Admittedly, it was not always this way, I used to be a lot more of an accommodator but behaviors of others (in my past cases unreliability, slight manipulation and flakiness) really motivated me to say no. Last time I dated someone who after 3 months started testing me “how much is she willing to do for me” by texting he’s not feeling good and passing on vague messages about us being together (this lasted for 3 weeks and I said, hey, you wanna break things of you better grow a pair cos I am out if you continue like this) I basically got fed up. None of the relationships where I was “too nice’ lasted more than 3-4 months, as that’s what it took for me to say see ya never. It is hard tho, especially when someone likes other things about a person! These were years ago and I feel like for the past 4 years I have been able to put my integrity first 🙂
Thanks for clarifying the terms as well, quite helpful and makes sense!! Also, the friend who gest sick and does not want his gf around, dude, home made beef broth is the best, your loss! (joking but really, that is sad).
Thank you again!
April 2, 2023 at 4:53 am #416893TeeParticipantDear TheltFactor,
you are most welcome!
After I reflected on the conversation, I think I was positively surprised most by the amount of introspection, he said he spoke to some peeps but mostly had to have inward conversations with himself and be honest about what is holding him back, and that recognizing that he was hurting my feeling was a huge revelation for him, he was feeling horrible about that which made him realize how much he cared.
That’s amazing – it means he is open to self-reflection and he also has empathy, because he could put himself in your shoes and realized that he was hurting you. Which is very promising!
Yes, it is just logistics and some finalizing of financial matters as things change yearly and there has to be updates. They are ok with planning, so there is room for multiple weeks vacation even, and there has been some talk about Europe trip in the fall, initiated by him as he wants to see where I am from (and the food there is so good lol).
This also sounds great! I wish you that many of those plans get materialized!
Thank you, this is so nice to hear! Admittedly, it was not always this way, I used to be a lot more of an accommodator but behaviors of others (in my past cases unreliability, slight manipulation and flakiness) really motivated me to say no. Last time I dated someone who after 3 months started testing me “how much is she willing to do for me” by texting he’s not feeling good and passing on vague messages about us being together (this lasted for 3 weeks and I said, hey, you wanna break things of you better grow a pair cos I am out if you continue like this) I basically got fed up. None of the relationships where I was “too nice’ lasted more than 3-4 months, as that’s what it took for me to say see ya never.
Good for you! So you didn’t put up with flakiness for too long – you knew what you wanted and respected yourself enough to break it off if the guy was only half interested or was playing games.
It is hard tho, especially when someone likes other things about a person! These were years ago and I feel like for the past 4 years I have been able to put my integrity first
Great! You’ve learned your lesson and now you can stand up for yourself and not allow lesser treatment. Even if the guy has many good qualities and you like him a lot…. Well done, TheltFactor, kudos to you! 🙂
Thanks for clarifying the terms as well, quite helpful and makes sense!! Also, the friend who gest sick and does not want his gf around, dude, home made beef broth is the best, your loss! (joking but really, that is sad).
You’re welcome! I actually needed to clarify it to myself too, because I wasn’t sure about it either… And yeah, having a home-made soup when sick is the best thing, so yeah…. not the wisest decision 🙂
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