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Alessa
ParticipantHi Everyone
Thank you both for the kind and supportive messages! I truly appreciate you both! ❤️ ❤️
I think I’ve felt tired for my whole life. Some people feel young internally, but I’ve always felt old inside.
Unfortunately, he’s not old enough yet to be able to access assistance with childcare. And we don’t have people helping out. Nursery even for a short time is very expensive.
I’m trying to take better care of myself at the moment thankfully. I’m still getting used to it. I managed to do some meditation and yoga.
I think it’s difficult when I have always struggled with not feeling good enough. My standards are quite high and I have some unrealistic expectations. I know very acutely what happens when parents fail. I wouldn’t ever want to fail him.
I would like to protect my son from suffering in his life. I know logically that is impossible. As he grows he will experience hardships of his own. All I can really do is to do my best to teach him how to take care of himself and support him.
He had his first playdate and he had a lot of fun. He was shy at first but loved playing with all of the different toys with a new friend.
It is really nice seeing that he’s getting more comfortable being around my friends as well. He had lots of fun exploring and playing in the garden.
Today is another busy day. Not much time to myself. I gave up watching tv and using my phone for my son. He is likely neurodivergent and screen use makes these things worse.
Time to crack on! ❤️ ❤️
Alessa
ParticipantHi Anita
I’m sorry to hear about the difficulties with feeling self-conscious about your tics. That must be very stressful growing up having them noticed by others. Kids can be cruel. Did you experience bullying about it? ❤️
Apologies, I don’t remember, was your mother diagnosed with NPD?
It must have been hard with your mother being a working single parent of two? On the one hand, you might not see that much of her? On the other, when you do she might be really stressed out and in a bad mood? A mood which you and your sister would have been on the receiving end of. Then, the rare times when she was in a better mood? That she always took care of your physical basic needs makes things even more confusing. Not knowing which side of her you’re going to get must have been distressing, not being able to relax and let down your guard.
I think the nature of kids is that they don’t understand how much their parents try. It’s not their fault. To be clear, I’m not suggesting that this is in any way relevant to your mother. Just that it isn’t the child’s fault. Very few people seem to understand their parents experience until they have children of their own, or see their loved ones struggle with parenthood as an adult. The understanding that an adult perspective brings can shine a new light onto things.
I think that, the pleasure taken in causing pain and the sexual nature of the abuse… The lack of autonomy you experienced. Understanding why she did what she did. It doesn’t change the severity of the trauma you experienced. She may have “tried” at times, but it certainly wasn’t enough by any stretch of the imagination.
The severe trauma you experienced is expressed by your body. What your mother did was wrong on so many levels and I’m so sorry it happened. ❤️
Alessa
ParticipantHi Panda
I’m sorry to hear that you were previously in an abusive relationship and that the fluctuations in your feelings with your current healthy relationship are worrying you. It is okay to worry about someone you care about. If you didn’t care, you wouldn’t worry. ❤️
I think it’s natural for feelings to change in a relationship. Perhaps the exciting honeymoon period might be over and quiet, more subtle feelings might be taking hold? It’s also okay to be irritable sometimes. I often find that I’m more irritable at certain times of the month, if I’m tired, in pain or hungry. It doesn’t necessarily have to mean anything bad? Does it?
Give yourself a bit of grace as you learn to navigate these changes. Be gentle with yourself. You deserve a healthy relationship, you deserve to be happy, safe and loved. ❤️
Alessa
ParticipantHi Anita
I’m sorry to hear that your tics are still cause you distress. I wonder what your experience is like with them? Interestingly, mine went away with pregnancy and came back afterwards. Makes me wonder about the impact of blood flow (there is more blood in your body whilst pregnant). I tend to think of mine as tense muscles trying to relax and struggling to do so. I didn’t have them when I was younger. I developed them in my 20s with my health issues. I do also get it when I’m very stressed too. I try to drink lots of water and eat bananas. Pushing my body too much makes it worse too and so does worrying about them.
I’d be quite happy to meet online or talk on the phone. ❤️ There are some applications that can be used to do so. Zoom or Microsoft Teams are used for online meetings. WhatsApp is good for talking to people in other countries on the phone. I don’t know if you have used any of these or if you could ask someone to help set any of them up? It’s easy enough for me to post a meeting link here for Zoom or Microsoft Teams. I would use email to exchange telephone numbers though.
I have blue eyes, pale skin and brown hair. In summer, I get freckles on my nose. I’m pretty short and not skinny at the moment.
I think people like our parents and some others too, distance themselves emotionally from the pain they cause. By blaming others, it creates a sense of distance. By pretending it’s not their fault, they hide from the pain. Deep down they know the truth. Most of the time they choose to actively live in denial, choosing a fantasy over reality. The pain of the hurt they cause tends to break through at certain times though. They become very depressed and self-hating during these periods. My mother would try to commit suicide, or ask doctors for help during these times.
The largest outcome for parents with severe trauma is suicide. Another outcome is child abuse. Many have their children taken away nowadays. Very few manage to succeed in raising children. There were not the resources available to help your mother in the way that I have gotten help. Nor the resources for my mother, who was fobbed off by doctors when she asked for help. It took her a long time to actually get it and by the time she did I was gone.
I don’t think I would have been as lucky if I had no help. The world is slowly but surely changing. Your mother was a product of her time and culture. If things were different, perhaps things would have been different. Perhaps she wouldn’t have just given up fighting her chronic mental illness? It is a shame that you didn’t have that chance to find out. In a different life, she could have been different and you could have been different. You might not be here helping people.
Alessa
ParticipantHi Eva
It’s not easy to accept these things. It takes time because it is painful. It’s a journey of grief and eventually healing.
He has been treating you in this way all along, but he finally crossed a line that you wouldn’t tolerate. It seems like you’ve been holding onto hope for a long time while he ignores your boundaries. One day he would change his mind and show up for you properly instead of treating you like a secret.
It’s okay to feel that pain, the only way is through it and showing up for yourself in the way that you deserve.
I’m glad that you can see that you did nothing wrong. You truly didn’t. You deserved so much more. More than he was capable of. I’m so sorry he’s treat you like this. ❤️
Alessa
ParticipantHi Eva
I’m really sorry to hear about the relationship difficulties that you have experienced. You truly deserve better.
Hmm I would say that the way forward is somewhat painful, so feel free to skip this paragraph. Acknowledge that he didn’t love you. Love is a two way street. While things were on his terms he was happy with the way things were. He didn’t care about how you felt. He never had any intention of having a future with you, he was just looking for someone to patiently tolerate his awful behaviour. You want more than he wanted to offer, you deserve more than he wanted to offer.
I for one am glad that you pushed for what you deserve. Just because he couldn’t love you doesn’t mean that no one will. You are no longer having your time and energy wasted. You are free to pursue a meaningful relationship where you can experience the care and respect that you deserve. One that has a future.
I have experienced dealing with these kinds of men, it is all too common these days. If someone is unwilling to date you publicly I’d steer well clear of them in the future. Dating is a bit of a cesspool these days. Once you’ve taken your time to heal, wade through the frogs. Tell them to take a hike, look for a prince who treats you right. You deserve it! ❤️
He might eventually decide to date someone publicly, get engaged and married. But it will be when it serves his needs. And I pity those people, because he won’t magically become a different person. Every relationship has issues and he is unwilling to compromise.
Alessa
ParticipantHi Ada
No worries! You are already getting a lot of good advice from Anita and Tee. Just trying to add a different perspective. Not that you necessarily need it, you’re a very self-aware, respectful and thoughtful person. Sometimes it is just helpful to talk things through. 😊
I feel like these kinds of discussions with partners are complicated because of the different needs each of you have.
It sounds like to me, he has a strong need for autonomy. Possibly related to his trauma? Not that you are necessarily intending to be critical by sharing your very valid and different perspectives to his. His trauma might make him a bit sensitive. Men are generally not as skilled at communicating difficulties and a bit intimidated when these discussions are a bit emotional, especially when they perceive that they are being blamed or feel like they might be at fault in some way even if they don’t see it as a big deal.
You are being respectful and understanding of his needs. It feels like you want him to reach the right conclusion on his own instead of you telling him what he needs to do to help you? Would you agree or disagree with that? I have a tendency towards this myself because things don’t feel as genuine if people don’t come to the conclusion themselves sometimes. Bless his soul, I mean no disrespect, he seems a little clueless though. He might genuinely need your help explaining what you would like to happen.
I’m going to give him the benefit of doubt. Since he is new to relationships, he does have trauma, he has tried to compromise a bit by lessening the contact, he hasn’t discussed your relationship, things are generally good in other areas and he is generally understanding of your emotions. I do think he does value you and your traits as a person.
Despite saying that he likes her traits (as a friend) he rejected her for dating, for obvious reasons. He values and seems to share some of your traits being a generally moral person and less emotional himself. There is a reason he is dating you and not her. Despite his insensitive comment, a bit of foot in mouth syndrome he’s got there. He likes you!
I would suggest that the double standards regarding the promiscuity come from two different places. A lot of men don’t want to settle down when they are young and actively use women. Whereas women often themselves in the situation of being used, trying to find a partner because it is pretty grim out there. Men are shockingly bad with refusing condoms. Her difficulties with trauma and general irresponsibility will make it difficult to sustain a relationship on top of the regular issues that women face. He might just be a bit more sympathetic to the plight of women.
As for the merits of emotional freedom versus being more reserved. There are benefits and drawbacks to both. People who have experienced abuse are more likely to see the positive side of sharing emotions freely. They lived in conditions where self-control, boundaries and empathy were not actively taught. Of course, not being taught them means that they have to learn these things themselves and there are often weaknesses in these areas.
Being more reserved, as long as it isn’t overly reserved. I don’t sense that you have that problem being overly reserved. You seem to have a healthy level. It’s actually really beneficial for raising children and sustaining relationships in that environment. The stability and calm is really important.
Do you find that when problems are discussed in the relationship that you are usually the person who brings topics up?
You clearly care a lot, are patient and understanding, you want to handle things in the right way, you respect his needs and boundaries, and want to work through these difficulties.
I can see you are a bit forward thinking, wanting to build a future with him. I hope that he sees past his own difficulties and compromises. You deserve a partner who respects and cares about your needs and feelings.
I would suggest being reassuring whilst you discuss these difficulties with him. It might help with his insecurities and sensitivity. He wants to be seen as a good and supportive person, not just for his friend but for you as well. Perhaps he might feel a bit more open to your perspective if you approach things in this way?
I wish you luck in figuring all of this out! ❤️
Alessa
Participant@Tommy Oh yes, his voice is always welcome and valued. I just wanted to respect his wishes. ❤️
Alessa
ParticipantOh I forgot to add. This conversation reminded me of @Tommy. He showed an interest in this topic. No need to reply necessarily since he wanted to bow out. If there’s an interest, it might be worth a read.
Alessa
ParticipantHi Everyone
Thank you both for the fascinating conversation! It’s helped me a lot too. ❤️
I’ve been trying to understand and explore the topic as a parent, both for myself and for my son.
Thank you Peter for your reading recommendation. I think you did an excellent job of tying everything together. And as usual, spot on with the quotes. ❤️
Anita, as usual you’ve given me a lot to think about! 😄 ❤️
Alessa
ParticipantHi Everyone
That sounds like an interesting book Anita! I’ll give it a read. Thanks so much for your kindness, as well as the reading recommendation. ❤️
I learned recently that children don’t understand language in a way that adults do. My son for example sometimes says “No, no, no!” When he wants something, because he’s learned and paired the word no with something that he wants.
They don’t necessarily understand why they are asked to not do things. There is a very large understanding gap. That means there is a huge level of trust in their caregiver.
I didn’t understand that I was being abused for a long time. I knew I was unhappy, but I just saw it as normal. It wasn’t until I started wondering why other children were happy, that I started to notice that something was different. That things at home were not the way things are meant to be.
Identity and core beliefs are formed in childhood when we don’t fully understand the world around us. I believed my Mother and tried my hardest to be a good girl. I reviewed my mistakes each evening and tried to do better. I believed that if I did things perfectly, I wouldn’t be hurt. (Simply not true) But there was were always new things I was doing wrong. That intense trust in the caregiver and the lack of understanding.
Other adults always complimented me as a child on how remarkably well behaved I was. That was the truth.
It seems to me that the nature of people that we are all different and have different needs means that it is nigh impossible to meet everyone’s needs without carefully listening and making an effort to understand them first. We will always make mistakes especially when we are in a hurry and people have different values to us. Especially when they are feeling irritable already.
Alessa
ParticipantHi Everyone
I’ve been thinking. It is really hard to say what is what. Chicken or the egg?
How much is society? How much is human nature? There are so many rules that people follow nowadays. It’s not until raising a child that I really notice it.
It seems to me like the nature of reality causes shame. Even if we were cavemen to some extent we would have to still learn rules. Go here. Don’t touch that. Fewer rules perhaps, with more deadly consequences?
The first task we are given is to resist our own nature. It creates this dichotomy because at that age we are built to explore. Torn between trying to follow the rules and our own desires. An impossible challenge we are destined to fail at because executive function doesn’t develop to a sufficient level for well over a decade.
Interestingly, Buddhism welcomes moral shame and dread. The key is not to punish oneself with it. It was almost freeing learning that. Like it’s okay, just don’t hold onto it as tightly.
In a way, these things are a display of empathy. My son accidentally kicked me in the face. I said “Ow, my nose is sore!” He came over and gave it a kiss.
Alessa
ParticipantHi Anita
Oh it’s okay, your message didn’t cause the PTSD episode. I just know what makes things worse for me when I’m having one.
I feel bad about my messages making you feel emotional. Please feel free to take care of your personal headspace in any way you feel the need to. I don’t want to cause any undue stress. ❤️
I’m sorry to hear that your PTSD episodes are so frequent. It sounds like your nervous system is completely overwhelmed.
There was something in between that I forgot to mention. I did a lot of practice reassuring myself during PTSD episodes.
That I am in the present. That I’m safe and whilst what happened was terrible and should never have happened. I should have been taken care of properly like all children deserve. I am an adult now and able to protect myself. I am safe.
When I feel totally overwhelmed and stressed I like to use my sleep hygiene comforting things. Scented candle, teddy bears, relaxing music. It might sound silly, but it makes me feel safer. I hope that you have a routine that you can do to relax?
Yoga was really good because it taught me to truly relax for the first time. It is still an eternal struggle though to relax.
There is always a choice. A window of choice. Volition in Buddhism.
Sadly your efforts would be wasted on her. Mothering yourself, that is something that could really be helpful. You deserve all of that love and more. ❤️
Sometimes I think to myself. If I were my own child what would I say to myself? When I’m struggling.
Alessa
ParticipantHi Anita
I was having a PTSD episode, so I avoided writing about this before. I’m feeling okay now though.
My mother said these same things to me as well. She also starved us and gave us vitamins so she wouldn’t get into trouble by making me too sick. I was already sick you see, vomiting every day from the stress, migraines, feeling pain in my bones, fainting, wetting myself into my teens. I was like one of those abused dogs at the shelter – terrified. Now, you wouldn’t know it.
Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with the desire to seek help, connection or understanding from another person. It is natural.
Our mothers went in a different direction – think the shelter dogs who become hyper aggressive.
After going through the process of connecting to that pain deeply and processing the memory.
Nowadays, it helps me to think of these things as a memory. Just a memory. Breathe. Hold the feeling and gently let it pass. There is no need to stay with it. Just an old memory. Breathe.
It helps me to take care of my needs and reduce my stress. It helps it to pass. Talking about it, getting a hug. Helps it to pass.
You are not alone. 🫂 ❤️
Our mothers were SCUM harming children. You weren’t a disappointment. She was. How disappointing, the unspeakable grief of unmet needs and being actively harmed by a trusted caregiver an innocent child – YOU – experienced at her hands. She was not capable of raising children and you suffered under her charge. It wasn’t your fault. Hers alone.
Perhaps she felt that she was the lesser of evils? Compared to what else was out there? She had experience orphanages. It is still no excuse for the things she did.
I’m glad that you survived her and despite your immense suffering turned out to an amazing person.
Alessa
ParticipantHi Ada
Thanks for sharing! I just wanted to understand a bit more about where you were coming from. ❤️
It is his first relationship, so there is an element of naivety and inexperience at play for him.
I would be suspicious of her side of things too.
The truth is that whilst he compromised a bit with the not contacting her as much. He does still need to work on compromising further with the sexual details at least. Relationships are about compromise and respecting each others boundaries. It is not just about what he thinks is acceptable. Ignoring your feelings and boundaries about this is disrespectful to you and the nature of your relationship.
Hmm I can understand the concern, but I don’t think it is necessarily true that he would have used her as a crutch to avoid relationships. Otherwise he never would have dated you. There are lots of reasons he might be shy about dating. He doesn’t have the same level of social and emotional intelligence that you do. He doesn’t really understand how relationships work with compromise for example.
I know that there are quite a lot of cultural differences despite sharing the same language. In the UK, it is difficult for men to share things with each other. Men tend to have female friends to talk about more emotional things with. It’s pretty common actually.
Since you were uncomfortable with the level of contact they used to have, it was emotional cheating. It would be the same in any country.
There is a level of compromise and respecting each other’s boundaries expected in a relationship. It is natural for a partner to want to feel prioritised and not feel like they are sharing their partner in a monogamous relationship.
It is difficult when you have dealt with your boundaries being ignored and a lack of respect in this relationship. It is a definite struggle.
He seems to genuinely not understand why he should be doing some of these things. I would chalk it up to being new to relationships and being a bit socially inept.
That is a pretty harsh label for him to suggest that your relationship with him is codependent. Why would he suggest that?
I imagine he is afraid of losing his friend. Would you be okay with him keeping his friend if he respected your boundary of no sexual details?
Do you feel like you could get past the difficulties once they are fully in the past?
Outside of this issue, how is your relationship with him?
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