Hi Anita,

Your first point seems very interesting and I am really curious to read more about it. Because after all i wrote, i thought it was pretty obvious that i wasn’t seeing only the good sides of him nor mine neither. Like, ever since the beginning, i was aware of all our differences. I don’t know, for me it was about complementzrity.

Concerning your second point: I don’t think I am trying to explain/justify the withdrawl of those two guys because of their low self-esteem or their mental illness. In the first relation, my ex was actually very honest about his depression. We talked a lot about how it made him feel, how it made him withdraw from everything and everyone. When we broke up he even said that he didn’t feel ready for anything serious because of this. And having a lower self-esteem is also part of the depression-package.. he also talked a lot about him not feeling good because of his academic failures.

When it comes to the second guy: he got diagnosed almost a decade ago with autism, I remembered a conversation we had about our therapies, his lasted five years. His lack of self-esteem was extremely obvious through the sentences he had many times « perhaps I will be for once able to teach you something », « why did you choose yo be with me », « if you don’t make the effort to  know me, then i’m not the kind of guy you want to date », « being around those people remind me of what I don’t have and what I can’t afford » etc).

Maybe I can also put this on his lack of experience when it comes to relationships; i was the first girl over the past 6 years he dated. But i’m also aware that when being on an autistic prism, emotions and feelings aren’t displayed in a similar way as with neurotypicals (hence why i think i’m that much attracted to neurodivergents, being ND myself, it’s way too challenging to be with a NT). I have a very good friend who is autistic as well, we talked a lot about emotions and feelings and she told me many times that love was a way too abstract concept much before I met the second guy.

I think it’s kind of normal for me to try to understand how their brains work. It’s not about making me feel better about myself, because I could have all the answers of the world about the kind of patterns their brains took before breakint up, the results will always be the same: us being separated and me being heartbroken. I genuinely think that since I am fully aware that a relationship with a ND is « better » for me, it’s also better for me to understand how a neurodivergency different from mine works. As we know that as ND we have our own way to communicate and create emotional bond depending on how our neurodivergency works.

I mean, after digging down a lot with my ex who was depressive, I learned a lot about myself and why i decided to stay with him: it was not about love but rather about a sens of duty to not let him down while he was doing so badly in his life.

With the second guy, i don’t know yet what is the lesson. Hence why I keep writing here. What am i looking for despite knowing what went wrong already?

Actually when i think about it, i’m starting to see a reccuring pattern in those two last relationships. I’m not sure if i can word it yet tho.

At the end of the day, I mostly feel that it’s more about trying to heal myself through my attempts to understand them and to forgive myself about some stuffs from my past or my own personality.

To circle back a little bit about my depressive ex, interestingly enough, I was so sure he didn’t have feelings for me because he couldn’t develop some. But now i think it’s been roughly two months he is trying to come back, he has made it clear that he wanted to rebound with me. He told that he felt much better and that he was on his good way to finish his studies and to finally have his own appartment.

For my first ex, i know the breakup and all the complications occured because of his depression which was very recently diagnosed when we  started to be together if I remember correctly. I wasn’t that familiar with depression.

For the second, i think it’s pretty obvious that he wasn’t ready to settle down: him going to walk to Spain (and saying out loud that he wanted to be alone at that time), him not knowing about his life, him freshly university dropped out, him financially struggling (because from the moment he dropped out he also stopped receiving grants and these grants in our country are really huge, in USD i would say that it represents somehow 500$/month). Again his low self-esteem was also pretty obvious. Concerning his ND, the more i think about it, the more it makes quite a lot of sens. Although i’m still not completely familiar with autism yet. But him being so oblivion; for instance he asked me a lot of things which at first were common knowledges (ex: him telling me that i was really hard to emotionally interpret and it was hard for him to tell if i was really into him, despite me being physically all over him, complimenting him and spending a lot of time with him, sending pictures of me etc). To which extent his ND affected his ways to display emotions and feelings and how it makes him understand people’s emotions and feelings.

I genuinely think he is a good person, however his life being such a mess currently, he just got confused. As I am too about many other things.

Tbh Anita, i may be digging down where i should  have stopped earlier but i promise, it helps me a lot.

Hi Anita,

Thank you for your answer.

I am guessing that the universal motivation of sex applies here, as well the universal need to feel better generally

Yeah that makes sens, I mean, I did that in the past in order to feel better about another relation which ended up poorly. I don’t know, in my case it didn’t feel that it was the best way, to rebound so quickly with someone right after a breakup, unless all I wanted was a casual fling. I don’t know, maybe it’s me but I don’t get how we could create a genuine emotional bond with someone else that fast.

IF she looks up to him and thinks well of him, and does not challenge him.. if she doesn’t ask him questions that he feels uncomfortable with, I see the attraction he may have for her. I don’t think that the dry facts (her lack of friends and wealth) attract him, I think that it’s more likely her attitude that attracts him

Yet he also broke up with her. But I don’t get in which ways I would have challenged him to be honest. The only time I asked him if we could talk, was when I felt something was off between me and him. Otherwise, I don’t know, I was just like yeah, let it be. I never told him before about those doubts and all of those questions I had about me and him, I talked about this with some friends. I just wanted to clear out things with him, for real. Never ever I asked him to justify himself about whatever he did with his life; i even told him many times that he didn’t owe me anything, everything I did when we were together I did because I wanted to.

Despite our differences, if I only thought bad things about him, I wouldn’t have fell in love with him either, if I was that arrogant, I would be paying much more attention to details such as social backgrounds and whatever. Ever since the breakup, I’ve spent a fairly huge amount of time telling him that his personality, his kindness, his intelligence, his reliability were some of the qualities I admired the most with him. And that despite his fears, I admired him for being able to always be present for the people he cared.

did you express to him, when in the relationship with him, directly or indirectly, that he had to make specific efforts to please you, and if so, what were those specific efforts?

NO-THING. And that’s the point, I told him ever since the beginning that him, being himself, was what attracted me so much and that I just wanted to be around him because his natural presence made me feel comfortable. Me and him staying in bed all day long or going to whatever events, for as long as it was with him, everything would be awesome for me. I even told him he could decide for whatever he wanted to do and I would follow his lead. I know he needs a lot of alone time, I know he likes to spend time with his friends and the day after he usually needs a cooldown. I told him, I’m the same so really, don’t feel as you had a pressure to communicate all the time with me because I would feel super stressed too.

You know what? He realized that we were both from different social environments ONE week after we started dating and 6 months after we met for the first time. He told me yeah no, I didn’t know you were this kind of person because you come to this student pub and you know, it’s not really known to target the fanciest people in town, also you didn’t look like one of them. He realized it because I started talking a little bit more about my past, not because of my attitude. I promise you Anita, I know I have rich kid attitude in many ways, but never ever I would date someone or be friend with someone and then looking down at them just because why not.

When we had to buy some grocery stuffs, I didn’t mind being the one paying for because I knew it would be complicated for him to afford some things, obviously I didn’t say it loud, but for me it just came naturally.

what if.. what if what is missing is not entirely his self esteem, but your self esteem: what if your self esteem is tied to your higher social class, to your family wealth, to your professional prestige and social connectedness; what if this is your attitude and it shows.. (while all along what you truly crave is “a strong emotional and physical connection”)?

I don’t get this part? Which attitude? I mean, nobody know about me and my social background, I choose to stay extremely private about myself and I carefully choose the information I display. And he was the only one among those people who actually knew about my social background as it seemed more fair for me to be honest about my life with the one I wanted to be with, I don’t feel ashamed about it, it may be hard to imagine it through those messages, but I really don’t over-do in real life lol. He doesn’t even know that I actually have two identities because of some protocols, nobody actually knows about this part of my life. Our first date happened in a park, on a random bench with random foods we bought in a random supermarket.. I talk more openly about these part of my life here on this forum because at the end of the day I know my real identity will stay hidden

After, obviously my self-esteem is extremely tied to my social class, this is how I was raised, like the rest of the people from this side of the society, it’s unfortunate for sure, but I can’t deny where I come from. I can hide it, but this is also my core education, as much as I hate this class, this is also a huge part of me which would be very stupid of me to deny. I am not ashamed, I may not like it that much but I don’t feel that I am in conflict. Modesty isn’t my best quality for sure, but I also genuinely think that I shouldn’t be hiding this side of me with someone I plan to stay on a longterm basis. If I accept someone’s differences and flaws, why then it couldn’t be reciprocate? But again, I don’t care about from which social classes people come from, I don’t care about degrees, grades and whatever. If it was really the case, I would have been extremely alone in my world. I want to see people for what they truly are and I want them to see me for what I truly am.

I think it’s easy for people to see your qualities, to think they like you for your good sides. But for me, seeing and acknowledging someone’s flaws and weaknesses, yet choosing to stay with this person, this is the real proof of love. I got interested when I saw his qualities which are numerous but I fell in love when I saw him accepting to drop his walls around me

 I didn’t interpret from what he said that he would rather live with his regrets for the rest of his life. Maybe, just maybe… you misinterpret some of what he says..?

I don’t think so, we talked a lot about regrets and how we managed them. For him regrets were part of his life lessons, he has a lot from his past, he told me that all those regrets actually were part of the reasons why he had sleep troubles. Like I know he never fell asleep before somehow 2/3:00 am despite having long and hard day working. He has a lot of unsolved issues due to the fact that he never faced them, he knows that in many situations he could have acted differently, our relation isn’t an exception to this I am sure. He told me: fears are based onto past and experiences and it makes people take decision they will regret, when obviously talking about me and him.

It’s not like he would prefer to live with his regrets for the rest of his life, I would say it’s more about being very defeatist and not having enough will to fight for what he truly wants maybe?

 I wonder if this sentence (in your original post) reveals something about what happened: “Physically speaking, it worked amazingly well, we were both very demanding”? (I don’t understand what you mean by “demanding”).

Oh by demanding I meant that we had a very strong libido haha. So this is also why I didn’t get why he broke up. We built up a strong emotional connection much prior starting to date and once we were dating, physically speaking, as I said, it was really amazing, so the physical and sexual attraction were well present. To be fair, we both knew we could rely on each other, we proved it many times, we also proved that we genuinely trusted the other by confessing so much about each other’s life. He told me a lot about his past, how heavy life has been for him, his expectations for the future. The ultimate proof of how strong was our bound, was when he confessed to me his will to go to Spain from July to November/December. I was the very first person he said it. Again,  even before dating, we were also very closes physically, touching the other every time we had the opportunity for, holding hands to warm up etc. At this point it was obvious that we were also emotionally attracted to each other. How could something between us not working in this set up?

According to this website (https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/relations/what-is-romantic-attraction-how-to-recognize-and-better-understand-it/), here are some parts of the definition of romantic attraction:

“If you’re together with someone, how can you tell if the person is romantically attracted to you? There is no straight answer, as everyone has different signs of romantic attraction towards persons that fit their preferences. Here are a few general signs of it, though:

• You’ll feel an emotional connection. In other words, you’re attracted to them as a person and not because of their body. You like their imperfections, opinions, mannerisms, and so on. While physical attraction is still important in a relationship, your emotional connection is more important.
• You like them for their personality. While friendships and even sexual relationships can be based on personality too, a romantic relationship brings personality above anything else.
• You like hearing their opinions. Even if you disagree, hearing this person out makes you happy.
• You just want to be physically close to them all the time, even if the feeling isn’t exactly sexual. Sometimes you just want to cuddle up to someone.What Causes Romantic Attraction?

  Unlike sexual attraction, which can occur simply by someone seeing someone that fits their preferences, and sexual chemistry, which can form as early as meeting someone for the first time, romantic attraction is more involved and can take some time to develop.

  Romantic attraction occurs when someone finds an emotional connection with another person, and this can include appreciating their personality, valuing their opinions, and looking to them for support.“

Hence my question: was the romantic attraction really missing in our story?

I wonder what changed shortly after you started dating:

He is the kind of person who needs to feel that he is fits into someone’s expectations and world. As I said, we both came from two different universes. I didn’t care but I knew we were very opposites here. He wasn’t aware that I was from a wealthier environment (and why would he be aware anyway, why one should care from which social class the one they love comes from). I am a straight A student, he is a drop out university. Despite him and me being perfectly aware of his situation which was temporary, I know he felt that he couldn’t fit in my world (“being around those people, here, remind me of what I don’t have and can’t afford to have” he once told me during a date).

I think what changed was him realizing in which kind of world I was living in. Really. Many times he made me understood that he felt useless (“maybe for once, I could teach you something”). The difference between having me as a friend and having me as his lover is that in the first case, despite our social differences, he wouldn’t feel that he had to over-compensate (by being extra-communicative, more present physically, always be on top of his form) in order for me to keep appreciating him. Because in the second case, I think that he felt if he didn’t over-compensate these ways, then what could he offer to someone who has everything already and him nothing?

He told me that for him the perfect set-up was back in February when we were just “friends”, but not, we weren’t friends in February, we were in this very hard-flirting phase, always together, always touching and looking after each other. I think it was perfect for him, because he knew we had something special, yet, he didn’t feel like he had to drop out his emotional walls completely.

I genuinely think that I wasn’t the one he rejected but himself. He felt vulnerable around me. He once wrote to me “when I was a child, I was praised for my intelligence and skills, yet emotionally neglected”. It took me many years of therapy to understand that opening up about my past, talking about my scars, would not push away the people who genuinely care for me. But what about him, is he aware that me seeing his flaws, his past didn’t push me away but on the contrary made me feel even closer to him?

argh, my post is awaiting for moderation, I guess it was because I c/c a link lol. It will be moderated soon i hope!

Oh my god, I am sorry for all those little posts, for some reasons I can’t update my messages. Anyway, I just remembered something else he said during the break-up: “I am happy with you, you are happy with me, we both make each other happy. So this how I realized I couldn’t develop romantic feelings.” and after he said that he felt.. “intoxicated” by this happiness, that he felt that he couldn’t bring in the relation as much energy as I did.. ?????? But i mean, we both agreed that we were at two different extremes: him having a slower brain than average, me having a faster one. Me with my hyperactivity, I obviously have more energy than average, he told me that he felt he was draining my energy without being able to give back.. As I told him, I didn’t mind, him being happy because of me, made me happy and him making me happy was the main source of my energy..

– did you notice that you are expecting consistent, logical and well-planned behavior from a person who (if the story is true) was so depressed that he was prescribed with electroshock therapy aka Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT)?

This therapy is prescribed for people who are severely depressed or severely psychotic and who do not respond well to other treatments. One side effect of ECT is memory loss… that by itself can explain inconsistency.

To be honest, I am definitely not familiar with this kind of treatment. Apparently it happened almost a decade ago. I have no idea what was the starting point of it. I am very confused with this. I wasn’t expecting this to come up. Now I understand a bit more why I felt that he reminded me my ex. There was something similar in them, but I couldn’t put words on it.

I think that he wasn’t serious about you nor was he serious about her. I think that you imagine that the relationship was closer than it really was.

Yes, to be fair, some of my friends also told me that it wasn’t possible for him to be serious with someone so close to his departure. With his student room, he has a two months notice, he said to his best friend about him not knowing about going until summer with her, etc roughly around end of April/beginning of May. He will leave for his family summer house beginning/mid-July for 2/3 weeks and then he will leave our country on the 31th of July (I know, he told me that). Which also means, him moving out from his student housing end of June/beginning of July for sure. So basically, even before getting engaged with her, he knew exactly when he was going to leave. It wasn’t about him not being sure because of his feelings, but just him knowing perfectly that he couldn’t do so. Is he just trying to make him look better as individual than he is? I mean, as I said to his best friend, I know deep down he is a good person. However his current life is so messed that it makes him take the poorest decisions which make him look like the worst guy ever.

People say things impulsively, or so to people-please, so to avoid conflicts, etc.,  and then.. people forget what they say. It is you whose been remembering his every word; he doesn’t.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think this is it. Because last week, he assured me that he thought every words he told me, repeating some stuffs I even forgot and felt genuinely everything.

Verbal communication from one person to another often get distorted when it goes through one or more people in between.

Hm this is true but I would say that 80% of what I “heard” about him was said through messages tho and I got screenshots about him saying those things.

And I’m so mad at myself because I can sens from miles away that the same situation than with my other ex will happen. My other ex is trying to come back in my life now. Remember, he was very depressed and such. I really thought he didn’t have feelings for me either. Well, now he made it clear that he wants to rebound with me.

Why do I feel that it will be the exact same with him? I’m not hoping something at all. As I said, now his conversation is in my spams and I am actually seeing another guy, someone who matches more my energy and level of ambition (he is the youth representative of our country for the UN).

I dated in total 5 guys on a serious business. There is only ONE exception who didn’t try to come back (and for a good reason: him being my sexual abuser). Otherwise even the first guy qi dated TEN (!!) years ago came back one month before and told me straight to the point that he wanted a rebound as well.

What is wrong with them? And this guy, I am sure he won’t be an exception. The story and the patterns are way too similars for me to ignore  and dismiss it. I know everyone is different, him as well, but there are too much similarities and apparently he talked about me a lot this weekend to his friends.

I am just tired of those feelings and to cry over him for NOTHING.