“I always felt like I had to protect mum’s image. I have never shared with anyone the frequency/ intensity of the arguments we had growing up at home, until now”-

it would be  okay for you to protect her image if it was possible to  do  so without you tarnishing your own image. The price of promoting her image as Saint/good, is to promote your image of yourself as Selfish/ bad.

It actually feels good to admit this. It’s hard to keep denying it when in reality I have never really confided in anyone about it. That suggests to me that I clearly have gone out of my way to protect her image. Why else would I not tell anyone about it? It was traumatic.

I think that the feelings you had then, during those arguments, the anticipation of the next argument, her bringing up the old argument, and a new one… that distress was intense for you, and that distress is activated in your experience with women with whom an intimate relationship seems likely.

Your words are spot on. It really did get to me.  It was like a broken record, over and over again. Funny thing, I just noticed the title of this thread “Stuck on repeat”, oh the irony….!  I never felt we moved forward after arguments. We would make up, but barely discussed it afterwards. It was only a matter of time before the next blow up.

I think that as a human you need intimacy, always did, always will, that is the natural pull. The push is what came with that intimacy that you experienced with your mother, that most terrible or horrible feeling in the world,

When you mentioned intimacy, I thought to myself, what is this? I obviously strive hard to create this, and for some reason women always seem to get there very quickly with me. I’ve been told over and over again that “I’m not like other guys” and people can “sense I am a good person”…. But I think this is a load of BS, because I’ve been selfish for my entire adult life. Have hurt so many people in the past. I don’t think I’ve felt true intimacy before. I am affectionate, but I think I am “forcing it”, and could possibly be tied in with the sexual element too. I mean, how could one obtain intimacy with someone after a few meet ups and jumping into bed ?

In the Youtube video I posted, it spoke to me in that it suggested my relentless perusal of women is nothing more than a distraction. The unresolved pain I carry is linked with my childhood and by the fact I have not dealt with Mum’s death. Despite the constant arguments, I felt close to Mum, and I miss her.

Regarding healing, if you do choose a counselor, in the first session when you interview him or her, ask him how he (or she) views his mother and father. It will be a bad idea to be counseled by a person who  has not resolved his own issues

Interesting! I had not thought of that. What sort of answers should I be expecting? In other words, what indications would suggest they have not dealt with issues. I guess proclaiming they were saints is a red flag. I actually called a number of different people, and found that the majority just wanted to book me in, before actually asking what the problem was. Kind of left me feeling like they just wanted the business… I guess I’ll just have to test the waters, try out several people and see which fits best. But would like to hear more about choosing the right person based on their parental outlook. Could you elaborate a little ?

 

issues.

Anita,

I am yet to find any posts of yours in other threads that I haven’t agreed with. The advice you’ve given to others has resonated with me. With other threads, it is clear for me to have an opinion, I guess because of my lack of involvement, I can think critically. But in my thread here, I find myself challenging your input, likely because I am heavily involved and cannot think critically. Logic would therefore dictate that it is my own inherent bias that is preventing me from moving forward, for the incite you give is surely consistent amongst all threads. That I can see, and is evident from your many posts on this forum. I apologise if you ever feel I am playing devil’s advocate. It is my own way of rationalising, and I find it helpful to counter the points you’ve made as it allows me to fully dissect the crux of the matter. Each time you’ve responded with helpful feedback and I can confidently speak for a number of lost souls on this site, we are lucky to have you here. Thank you.

My sister became closer with my father soon after mum passed away, she would have been 16, me 19. As soon as I finished university, I left for a year to go travelling the world. It turns out my sister felt very alone, and in this period she became much closer to our father, which is understandable to me. I do wonder if reconciling my relationship with Dad would help me heal. We were never close, partly because I always felt like he didn’t enjoy our company on the fortnights we shared growing up. I have never told him how I feel. Perhaps I will, I would like to know how things were between him and and Mum, especially as both myself and sister’s memory isn’t the greatest.

It may very well be that your sister hasn’t seen your mother as a Saint, not for a long, long time and so, she saw Reality better than you did, accepting it with some calm, and that does lead to better mental health.

She knew enough that she needed to move out from home. When she explained it to me in person during our heart-to-heart, she said that her wellbeing was at stake. So I think you’re right, she must have known and accepted that Mum was not a saint. I don’t think I could have ever moved out from home if it wasn’t for a natural excuse like university. I guess this is denial. I always felt like I had to protect mum’s image. I have never shared with anyone the frequency/intensity of the arguments we had growing up at home, until now.

-it makes sense to me: if a woman is cold, distant, may be seeing someone else and is not into-you, then you are safe from being stuck, or trapped with her. You do remember the arguments with your mother, you described here on your thread very distressing times with your mother. You don’t want that trapped experience again.

Bingo! I don’t know why I didn’t see this before. This explains why I get cold feet as soon as I sense they are into me, I don’t want to be trapped again.

I would like to explore my compulsion to “get them into me”. I really put a lot of effort in, and only to throw it all away as soon as I get it! I wonder if this drive, (obsession with wooing them to show me they like me) is somehow connected to Mum’s death also. It has been suggested to me in the past that I am attempting to replicate another relationship with my Mum. Which  of course is weird. I don’t even know what this actually means either. But it is odd how I work so hard to get shown they like me, to then just run away soon after. Always rushing in, have never gotten to know anyone. I call it “push/pull’ because it’s one extreme to another, and have barely got to know the person the meantime.

I am looking for a local counsellor to discuss things with. I aim to attend 1-2 times per week. You have shown me that my memories of childhood are hazy at best. I think it’s therefore a good place to start , but worry about how I am going to implement change in my life.  I am not going to ask a trivial question of how long this will take. But I would like to know what actions I can take that will maximise my chance of healing.  I want to resolve this, to enter into a relationship for the right reason and feel connected with my inner self.

Separately, I came across this video on Youtube. It is interesting and describes some of the symptoms I suffer. It led me to believe that my experience with women are nothing more than a “distraction” to help me avoid the fear/pain I am suffering.

Thank you for your continued input Anita.

I think you are confusing my thread with another. I have never dated anyone described as “bad girls with piercings/tattoos”. Quite the contrary, they’ve always been the “ideal type”. However, it is interesting you say that because the cold/distant women I described earlier are usually the ones I end up with the longest.

Perhaps I didn’t know my Mum as well as I thought. She certainly was secretive. We didn’t even know Mum’s age until she passed away. We only found out she was married before our father when finding an old picture in the loft. It is hard because I remember mixed emotions with her all the time. Her mood was very changeable.

I decided to attend “relationship counselling”. I will start soon, possibly next week. I obviously have an unhealthy attitude towards relationships and feel I am going into them for the wrong reason. I hope that I can do better in a face-to-face environment, because the more we speak, the harder it is for me to contribute. I am trying to keep an open mind, but am struggling with my memory. I am not trying to be stubborn, I really want what’s best for my mental health, and if that means forcing myself to admit there were difficult parts of my childhood then that’s fine. I agree that the intensity and frequent nature of the arguments were tough, even damaging. But it is hard for me to draw conclusions as my sister seems perfectly “normal” in comparison. Why me? Why have I been the one to develop such tendencies. From your previous posts, I remember others asking for memory techniques to refresh oneself of their troubled past. I remember your responses have been that the memories are alive in your current actions/words. As I am struggling with my childhood memories, I wonder what I can share currently that might give a hint as to what direction I should look at.

Anita, are you there?

Sorry Mark/Anita for the delay. ( I work very long hours).

 

I need to spend more time self reflecting, to listen to my inner needs, to become more self aware, but struggle how to actually go about doing this.

With regards to practical methods, I have tried talking with someone in the past. I guess I had about 20 sessions over a 1 month basis. The consensus was denial.

So my take is that you follow through with this.  Why aren’t you doing that?

Mark

Attitudes towards mental health in the UK are quite different to in the US. I found it easy to find/talk with someone while in the US, but back in the UK things are harder. I agree and will look into finding someone again.

To understand the connection between your experience in your home  of origin, living with your mother, you need to look at what happened then not  through the retroactive understanding of an adult who  is familiar with psychological terms,  and who is focused on her reasons/motivations.  You have to go back to the boy that you were then and how it was for you at the time, and see life from your view at the time.

That makes sense. How I felt growing up is difficult for me to explain. I was frustrated at our inability to work through problems. I was aware that our family dynamic appeared “broken”. I did not like the intensity of the frequent arguments. My mum had the ability to really get to me. I can recall punching/slamming doors very hard out of sheer frustration. The fact I cannot remember much I am assuming is a bad sign. I had so much practise at arguing growing up. I feel this could contribute to me being argumentative today. My mum could not let things go. The more I think back to particularly troubling times, the more I am reminded by how selfish I was. A lot of the “big incidents” could have been avoided if I didn’t do stupid teenage things. I can list a whole bunch of ridiculous things I did as a teenager that would have given any parent a real challenge.

In your original post  you wrote: “as soon as I sense  they are ‘into me’, I feel an overwhelming sensation to stop all contact”- this overwhelming sensation  to  stop all contact is the same  sensation you had as a boy, to stop all contact with your mother.

I am trying to be real with myself regarding above, but struggle to formulate an opinion on this. I don’t remember wanting to run away. However as mentioned in earlier post, my sister did actually leave home at 16, so perhaps there is something in this. The fact I once said to my Mum “we are going to grow up messed up ” probably underlines the fact I wanted a more stable family environment.

While I recognise the relationship with my Mum needs to be explored, a part of me wonders if the “sensation to stop all contact” is purely down to me not actually liking that person in the first place?

Continued quote: “The more I try to  deny/ ignore this feeling and just ‘run with it’, the more depressed I feel”- this depression is the same depression you felt  as a boy,  living with your mother.

Possibly. However it does strike me as odd that this feeling appears as soon as I sense women are “into me”. In the context of my previous encounters, I have managed to stay longer with cold/distant women. Up to 6 months before. I actually thought I was in love with one, and even tried for a baby with plans of marriage. Pretty much overnight, as soon as we had actively tried to conceive, I sensed something wasn’t right. Within a few days I started to get that depressed feeling. In hindsight, this woman was certainly not the right person for me! I was always the one to chase her. I sensed she was probably keeping her options open, and possibly seeing someone else as well. I became almost obsessed with her. I felt sometihing wasn’t right, but instead of just ending it and moving on, I put my energy into figuring out what it was. A very long story, but I eventually found out she was a high class call girl…. Yes… I was totally shocked. It then made sense why she seemed so distant/cold. She claimed that her relationship was me was her way of “feeling normal” while having to do such a difficult job. Again, any “normal” person would have run away at this point. I ended up parting with $15,000 to pay off her debts meaning she could quit this job. Even after she did, things didn’t improve. She still felt distant/cold. This kept me wanting her. It was only after actively trying for a baby that things changed. What does that tell you about me as a person ? My motivations seem questionable. Trying to have a baby with someone to prove to yourself that she is serious about you? Realising instantly (post ejaculation) that she was eventually serious, and that you no longer actually want it….  What I will add was that I was highly attracted to her. I kept wanting/wishing her to be “mine”. She was gorgeous, and had a stunning body. I guess all I cared was for people to see me with her. This makes me think my issues with women are more complex. It would seem I have self esteem issues.

And it doesn’t mean that every aspect in your relationships/ interactions with women is  about your mother. There is the sexual element, the human desire to connect, the social and sexual roles of men and women that society teaches us. These are  not about who your mother was  as an individual.

If everything about my Mum isn’t connected with my current encounters with women, then what is ?

In your recent post you wrote: “Shame and emotional blackmail were common themes amongst the  daily arguments”- she shamed you, blackmailed you,  this is very much aggression, emotional violence exercised by her against you.

“She could be  so sweet, then turn on an instant”, she turned against you unexpectedly.

Yes. I agree and acknowledge Mum was very good at wangling her emotional meathook into us. But she was also a highly emotional person. As Mum certainly stirred up a lot of anger in us both, I can see how this would result in prolonged “emotional violence” as you put it.

 

In my experience, this feeling  is a combination of fear of the attacker, intense anger at the attacker, the urge to run away from or fight the attacker, and heavy guilt for being so angry at my own mother, for thinking how much I wanted to be away from her, feeling that I am a bad person for these things, fighting against myself, conflicted and  confused.

When you end a relationship, the “huge catharsis” is about running away from your mother, escaping the turmoil, doing what you wanted  to do for so long, to get away from her. And  when you do, you feel that much needed freedom from pain, and you “are able to function again and not feel like I am fighting  against myself”.

You wrote, “it has been suggested to me in the past, that by breaking off contact with women, I am reliving the death of my mum”- I don’t think so. I think that it is living with her that you keep reliving,  and that by breaking off contact with women, you are breaking contact with your mother, again and again.

 

As it seems I have limited ability to articulate how I felt growing up, it is difficult for me to move forward with this.  I have written a list of each person I have slept with, and have tried to look at what I actually do. My hope is that by analysing by actions, it will shed light on any correlations. What is strange, is that this feeling of denial of wanting to break up, seems to happen at different stages. Sometimes it is soon after having sex, other times it is before even getting to that stage. I can recall at least 4 different women that this has happened with.  I would really like to understand why, in these 4 particular incidences, I have gone from being extremely excited to talk with them, to wanting to end contact in a very short space of time. So much so, we had not even managed to hold hands, let alone kiss/have sex. Really weird ! But it is exactly the same feeling every time. Part of me I guess wants a relationship, and is worried I will be single forever + potentially not able to find anyone as nice/hot. The other part of me wants to push them away and not have to deal with it. What I can see from my list, is that I barely know these people! After initial contact, the conversation usually explodes. It’s almost as if it’s a race for me to secure the deal. It’s like I am compelled. Then lose all interest and deny that thought soon after. It makes me think I am hugely insecure and vain.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Wanderer. Reason: Deleting
• This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Wanderer.

I don’t remember arguing as a youngster, partly because my memory is terrible.  (Is this a bad sign?)I do however distinctly remember arguing a lot because I was a selfish teenager. Again, something I need to speak with my sister about to see if she remembers a transition period or whether the arguments were always there. I will meet her tomorrow to discuss this.

As you can imagine, this is difficult for me to digest. Especially to hear my mum was potentially a bad parent. It saddens me. My mum has always been a saint in my eyes. Can I ask why you termed it “aggression” ? Are you implying that if the arguments were always there, then the aggression would have to be on the part of there adult seeing as the child is considered pure, free from prejudice ?

Your point about the cost/benefit associated with parental loyalty makes total sense. I know too that my Mum loved us more than life itself, and would therefore accept any criticism of her upbringing of us if she thought her babies were suffering mentally as a result.

My choice of the verb “win” made me think of another explanation after reading your response. As in to win the game. As in the encounter was just a game/not serious, but maybe it was just my choice of words. I just don’t know. I often struggle with knowing what I am really feeling. I would love for nothing more than to develop a strong sense of identity with my inner self to help me feel less fragmented and gain more clarity in life. Self awareness is my biggest weakest.

We argued incessantly. There were no winners. I agree these were far from ideal circumstances to grow up in. Is this possibly why I haven’t dealt with my Mum’s death? Is this connected with my erratic behaviour towards women? I just don’t know.The question I really want to ask is how. How I can move on from this and grow into the person I know I can be.

Dear Mark/Anita,

Thank you for your joint responses. I hugely appreciate your input, especially after having lurked on this site and read your responses to others. I feel lucky to have such two kind souls contributing to this.

@Mark – Good point. My extended periods of abstinence seem to have solved little. By focusing on myself, I have embarked on a “get fit” lifestyle. Over the last year I have tried my best to workout 5-6 times a week, prepare my healthy meals in advance and prioritise sleep. To some extent I would agree that this is “focusing on myself”, however I do feel that perhaps I am again doing this for the “wrong reasons”. In other words, I feel it contributes to the shallow outlook I currently have. Being aesthetic, to be able to attract equally aesthetic women with “ideal” figures seems to be my priority currently. So in all honesty, perhaps I am not “focusing on myself” at all. Maybe I’m not sure how to do this. I certainly haven’t used my time well over the last several years. I sense I need to spend more time self reflecting, to listen to my inner needs, to become more self aware, but struggle how to actually go about doing this.

With regards to practical methods, I have tried talking with someone in the past. I guess I had about 20 sessions over a 1 month basis. The consensus was denial. I will elaborate on this later on. Regarding platonic relationships with women, I have never tried this. I feel frustrated because the conclusion I arrived at previously was to give this a try. Yet here I am again doing the same thing. For some reason I always end up jumping into bed with someone. I can’t ever recall just getting to know someone beforehand. I think in all honesty, I must objectify women.

@Anita – To supplement my background, I lost my mother in tragic circumstances. She was perfectly healthy, then I receive a phonecall form the Dr saying to come to the hospital ASAP. On arrival I was informed she had suffered a brain aneurysm, and would never be the same person I knew. Of course this didn’t sink in, until I saw her. Her arms were turning in on themselves as she laid there severely brain damaged and frothing at the mouth. I have always been considered emotional, and used to get particularly upset at the sight of disabled people as a youngster. So was particularly distressing for me to see my mother now a “vegetable”. ( I really hate this term, but feel it was necessary to use this word owing to the condition she was in). For 1 week she laid there, whilst doctors kept reminding us that even if she did manage to recover, she would never be able to speak/function as we knew her. I found it very difficult to grieve for mum. At 19 I had a 16 year old sister to look after, who couldn’t possibly see me get upset. I was also in the middle of my exams at university and knew mum’s priority would have been for me to finish. My mum raised myself and my younger sister, my father was not around growing up.

Yes. I do worry that I am incapable of love due to what happened to my mum. It would make sense why I haven’t been able to form healthy relationships with women. I really do suffer with the “eating into me” part. It has been suggested to me in the past, that by breaking off contact with women, I am reliving the death of my mum. This would explain why I struggle to end contact. The denial I touched upon (in above answer to Mark) stems from the inability to easily break off contact with someone I consider “worthy”. In other words, my history with women falls into 1 of 2 categories. Either I consider them “unworthy”, then purely use them for sex/casual fun, or consider them “worthy/dateable” then struggle enormously to end contact. I try my hardest to fight it, and it sends me into a very deep depression. When I feel this way all I want to do is sleep. The only thing that has stopped this feeling is to finally break off contact. It feels like a huge catharsis. I am able to function again and not feel like I am fighting against myself. That inner turmoil is the worst feeling in the world for me. I have been here so many times, I am all too familiar with it. I should know better by now, to deal with it as soon as it comes, because it doesn’t go away! But instead I try to ignore it, to give the girl ” a chance” and see if I can break the spell, but it inevitably comes back with vengeance and literally “eats into me”. I’ve never been good at making I statements, I am indecisive, but I can confidently say I never want to feel this way again.

I feel I can often “beat around the bush”. I am sure I can ramble on with endless anecdotes, but to try and follow suit with how your responses to my post were so appropriate, I will attempt to give succinct info which may be pertinent. I am insecure and would describe my relationship with women as pivotal to my self esteem. I would very much like to fall in love and possibly have a family one day. I don’t know what I am scared of. Possibly losing someone again, or perhaps I simply haven’t met the right person. I really just don’t know. I definitely focus on the wrong things (superficial aspects). I am mostly scared of what other people think of me. I don’t feel I have dealt with my mum’s death. I do not like the vain person I have become.