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Cali ChicaParticipant
Dear Anita,
I will be heading out of work soon – the last long day complete. My final day working here is on Monday! January 2020 will begin with freedom and space.
I want to let you know that you have been a pivotal part of my 2019 – I feel I have accelerated in the last few months, and finally seeing so much that you have been saying all along. There is so much to go- and as you wrote in your first post – about rushing vs expediting – that is the work I have cut out for me in 2020.
Sink and savor
Quiet the frenzy
Hush the rush
I will be away from the computer through the weekend as my husband and I make some more final conversations about the big question at hand. Enjoy the end of 2019 with your wonderful husband – and be safe! No more injuries for either of us!!!
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I like your response, and it makes sense! I used to think of New Year’s resolutions as a time to think of all of the stuff I hated about myself! I won’t do this and this and this! It wasn’t constructive, it was full of negativity – and pessimism. It lead to no progress that way of thinking.
This year my resolution is, well let’s see…..to focus on inner circle. That’s it! It means everything!
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I like your response, and it makes sense! I used to think of New Year’s resolutions as a time to think of all of the stuff I hated about myself! I won’t do this and this and this! It wasn’t constructive, it was full of negativity – and pessimism. It lead to no progress that way of thinking.
This year my resolution is, well let’s see…..to focus on inner circle. That’s it! It means everything!
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Phew! It is never my intention to offend you – and I know often when we speak so freely things can be taken out of context. Not by you, by anyone! I am glad it isn’t that way.
I respect immensely the effort you put in to support her, and the emotional attachment makes sense – a kind exuberant personality of hers, loving and grateful. But of course then you were bit. And as you said so maturely – you don’t need to be bit anymore, so you won’t. Now that is a strong woman! Bravo to you!
Great point about the histrionic personality – that term coming back to my mind. When I mentioned in psychiatry extreme quick attachments and back and forth wavering – they can be present in borderline personality disorder. It is not my intention to diagnose her or anyone. I, myself, have plenty that could be diagnosed as well! Lol!
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So Anita, I assume you do not make official New Year’s resolutions. Or perhaps I am wrong – and you do!
But, what, if I may ask – is ONE thing you want to work on this coming year? I will think about this and answer as well.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Thank you for “keeping her busy” by communicating with her while I was in CA. I never formally gave you that appreciation, sorry for that.
I wanted to say something about that – no matter how much you supported her and spoke to her and talked to her during this time – she still managed to take my time and energy. Isn’t that something? It reminds me of my childhood. My father or I would spend countless time calming my mother down or this or that, and then bam when a new person arrived in the home, say my sister, an aunt, anyone – it would start all over – all of our efforts in vain.
Dear Anita – I hope nothing I said about her talking so much to you was offensive to you. I by no means feel the way you approached it was wrong. I was just point out her extreme behaviors, and patterns of it. That she is all or nothing. I recall her talking to a new boy once, for hours and hours – not uncommon for 20s – and then telling him the deepest darkest things about our family — and then getting annoyed when he didn’t get things.
Her expectations of people have always been for them to “just get her.”
Some people like yourself truly try very hard to get her, and help her – but it can be a difficult task.
I apologize once again if anything I said was offensive. I truly appreciate what you did to help her – and I know that when she had just gone NC she was so grateful to have you as support and a backbone. You are an especially kind person for giving that to her.
Cali ChicaParticipantTo add: I am not saying that I am better than my sister. It is just that I have seen the extreme attachment and all or nothing behavior in her, my mother, and perhaps a few times in my self in my 20s. I know where it stems from, I know it comes from a lack of self trust, and self love. I have tenderness for it.
But now – for the first time – I also see the harm it has — on me.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Thank you for your stream of consciousness. I love that term and I am glad that you engage in this with me as well – as I recall encouraging you a short while ago. To write without worry, just let it out.
I will highlight some things you stated:
There were some troubling expressions but I figured life has been tough for her, is tough, challenges and all, so I kept at it
I too felt the same way, and of course kept at it. Obviously a different relationship I have with her. But this same line resonates with me, feeling that she did have a tough life, so doing your all to support and be there.
two sides at opposite ends of the spectrum,
This is key. I don’t know if I have mentioned this before, but I am very wary of people who have 2 extremes. Often I believe they aren’t to be trusted. I never thought of my own sister this way – but I see it now. My husband has mentioned that my sister can be selfish, and so always does what she wants. I of course defended her. But it all is much clearer.
She has a lot of anger, and as you so aptly mentioned, it spends most of its time bottled up, ready to explode. She also has this very loving side. It is authentic, it is not fake. A loving, kind, sweet person. The issue is – she is not aware of those both sides of her. And, the nice side of her can go to such an extreme – that it in a way self invalidates the “bad side.” As in, her niceness is so nice, that it makes her badness less bad. Or so she may think, or others may think at first.
But the reality is that in life, as an adult – I see a lot of how people cope. I see it daily with my patients. I see healthy signs, I see unhealthy signs. I see myself learning unhealthy behavior of passive aggression – but working on it actively daily – esp with my husband. I see my sister also working, with her therapist, and her own journey – but still it doesnt matter. There is no need to excuse bites constantly.
even more than you were
This is an interesting line of yours. My sister can be super affectionate and extremely grateful for love and attention and support. It is sometimes like a puppy who hasn’t had much love. In this way she can be the most grateful person. And it is genuine I believe. But with that, when the anger and lack of “coping” I will say comes up – that gratefulness can quickly jump to something else. I like how you mentioned “even more than me.”
This is true. But I have had a LOT more healthy relationships in my time, and know how to regulate my behavior with people, especially new people – and have a good balance between honesty, affection, and tact — I like to think. These are things she has always had trouble with. It becomes more important to her at her age now, as you can’t excuse it as teenage years and the like. So yes, as I have gotten older, I try not to come off as OVERLY this or that – as it is usually not a sign of a stable person. Not to say that I am acting, it is just that I feel much more regulated in the way I feel and communicate as an adult now vs when I was much younger.
Given that, I excused this behavior a lot for her, thinking I too may have been this way in my 20s. One day all excited and best friends with someone, the next day pouting. And then I thought back – and I realized, no. Sure my behavior and relationships were more erratic in my 20s – but I HATEDDDD this part of myself. And I did everything possible to change this. As I did not like how it made me come off to people, nor did I like the way it made me feel.
2 extremes is never good. She has a long standing history of getting really close with someone really fast, almost obsessed. Talking to them all the time and telling them the deepest things – just to get put off by them for some reason shortly after. This is just like my mother. It is an extremely juvenile way of approaching others, and in the world of psychiatry it is a sign as well.
My husband and I have mentioned to her in the past, gently – that it isn’t always a good idea to tell people you don’t know everything all at once. An example would be a guy she’s been on 2 dates with knows her family history and drama already. Or a friend she just met she already is talking about taking a trip with. Things of that nature. I attributed it to her need for love and friendship which is innocent enough.
I even thought it was too much when she started talking to you again, to talk so much. Not because I judged her or you – but the concept of all or nothing. Going from not talking at all – to talking day in and day out – that flame fizzles fast. I wasn’t surprised when she texted me all frenzied about your communication ending. Not surprised at all. I thought to myself, it’s always extreme with her – the flame fizzles
And it did.
I see her patterns now t as aberrant and erratic, extreme and unstable. I don’t judge it, but I see the ways it harms me when I continue to support, but she doesn’t have awareness of her own characteristics. So now I have a very good view of her, from up close and above.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Thank you for your post, full of so many important points.
1- It is childhood and it is her. Just like it is childhood and it is me. It is childhood and the person. BUT it is up to the adult, to be aware of their actions and continue either the same way, or not. That is the true meaning of healing and seeking a better life. And very few can do it. It makes even more sense to me now why so few can stick to the path. It is not just the path, but old “sickness” trying to drag you down off of it, even if it is truly not on “purpose.”
To remain on the path is to – remain on it. Not feel guilt for not continuing on the dirt road below. Not feeling undeserving of the cobblestone path that is more solitary. Nope. This path is the right one, and it is mine.
2 – Yes, I will take time with this, and of course it is a work in progress. Thank you for reminding me this.
3- I read your addition. Interesting. I think she figured that you didn’t like her, or something of that sort. We didn’t speak about that much. Then you on your own felt that you had perhaps been to harsh or judgmental of her, and wanted to give it another try. At this time you felt that her manner of communicating wasn’t a win-win.
It makes sense. And I am not hear to go through scenario, but as an older sister I look back at all the countless relationships she has had that have had many similar trajectories.
Lastly, I would like to read what more you have to say – as you mentioned. Of course, when you have time.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
she will be otherwise motivated to point to you as the aggressor and build a case against you as the aggressor, but with a combined number, if she builds a case against you, she is building a case for a no-contact with you.
This does make sense to me. I thought about if before Xmas I explained to her that her approach was causing me stress – what would have ensued. A roar.
“oh you always blame me for your problems, I didn’t do anything wrong. I am not always the wrong one.”
Years of her being blamed or being a scapegoat by my mother – and not as “favored” have led to this sort of complex for her.
Yet, if I give in to it – it continues the role of the sick home.
So what I pasted above makes sense. In fact, before we went to Aruba I placed some ground rules, as did she. And of course we both had some transgressions. Natural to follow patterns, but I think we both caught ourselves and were able to continue. What I observed in Aruba is the following: I take on the guilt and allow her to be “right” because I feel guilty of many years of putting her down. But, it is a lose lose situation. Because I don’t need to validate her by a subconscious feeling of “oh you are right, I know I always blamed you.”
I saw in Aruba that not ONLY do I slip and have a transgression – she does too! yet all she ever does is point out the flaws in others. Especially me. I noticed her strange energy when we talked about dating which was not a topic to avoid on our list – but I quickly mentally noted to avoid it. I stopped the conversation and noticed she continued on her own, but with a tone of annoyance. I noted to myself that she is dealing with this sort of aggression and it isn’t my job to frankly deal with it.
What’s more. There have been numerous times in my sister’s life that people have stopped speaking to her. Even “ghosted” her as in stop talking without any explanation. Her 2 friends in high school, and maybe another person, and you now twice. Twice!
Not to say you ghosted her, those high school friends did, but point is you did not wish to continue communication with her any longer as something about it was HARMFUL to you.
I thought about this a lot on the way to Xmas. It isn’t a coincidence this has happened to her multiple times. And we can’t just blame a bad childhood. It is her. It IS HER.
And so that is telling, she has rubbed many people the wrong way in the past – people, like yourself, who were kind and helpful and gracious. Sure maybe some of the others were not that way. But at the end of the day it is NO coincidence.
She does feel entitled to bite.
And what is most important is the freedom and guilt-free feeling I had when she didn’t join us this year. It wasn’t about her coming or not. But if she had come with that weird aggression – it would have limited my freedom and space.
Which to my last point is key- I love and appreciate my husband when I have space and freedom.
When I am divorced from my sick family, I am able to love my new family. That’s simply it.
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I haven’t mentioned any of the possibility of not moving to CA to my sister. It is inner circle business only. I don’t feel I will be able to have the conversation with her that you stated over the next week as I am finishing up work and have a few too many things going on.
But January – is free. And it should remain FREE. No one should take the love for NYC away, especially not my sister.
We will be doing our gift exchange in the near future, maybe after the new year. And I am not jumping to make any more plans with her immediately.
For January, and beyond – I will have the conversation and contract prepared. As it is imperative. I also like this idea because it allows transgressions and makes it a team effort. There is no hierarchy, and there is no oppression. It is 2 adults speaking and co-existing with boundaries. I no longer feel the need to make her understand my side. I know with this sort of conversation and contract, I won’t have to explain myself – I will simply have both of us refer to the rules.
edit: I just saw your second post. Thank you. I know I handled the Xmas scenario well as I felt calm and collected after it. IT felt like self preservation, and it felt like focus on inner circle. Lastly it was self trust. Going back to what CC really needs!
- This reply was modified 4 years, 12 months ago by Cali Chica.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Good Morning. And Merry Xmas.
I apologize I did not reply to your last post sooner. Here’s what happened:
I felt internally frenzied from my sisters passive aggressive indirect comment, the last we spoke that I mentioned and you commented on above. I came home and directly communicated it to my husband. As I know I have a history of indirectly taking out anger and annoyance on him – which makes me guilty of passive aggression as well! Doesn’t it.
Therefore, while I told him what my sister said I found myself getting more agitated. I was packing up to go for our Xmas Party and moving things around and BAM!! I drop a big glass bottle on my big toe. owww! At first it didn’t hurt terribly, but after I sat down and felt the true after effect and throbbing – I realized what I had done. My husband came to find me and after making sure I was okay said – this is why you shouldn’t rush!!
He was absolutely right. The universe showed me didn’t it. CC slow down, don’t rush – your frenzied energy will harm you – and it did. How humbling.
Luckily it is my husband’s specialty, he examined the toe and said it’s unlikely to be broken, just a bad sprain. And so I was grateful for that. But wow talk about the need to slow down. phew!
Anyway my toe is better. Yes, I am at work today. Last day of craziness, 24 cases today. BUT I have asked for help with movement of all stretchers. I refuse to harm myself any further – I will truly slow down.
It feels good to slow down – it feels normal. I feel human today. This is what it is like isn’t it?
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Back to my sister. So she didn’t end up coming to Xmas. And that was just fine. It was great actually.
Would it have been bad if she came, no. But I think what I needed – what my husband and I needed – for Xmas of 2019 of this year. We needed inner circle. And that is what we got. And it felt so good!
So good! Just what we needed.
I didn’t give in to my sister’s way of communication. I stepped back, and as I stated above, I observed that this form of communicating although is the norm pattern for her – does not make it okay. It does not need to be validated by the fact that she went through a lot, and it is from her trauma. No.
I offered her 2 options. She stated: “well I probably won’t come then”
as in to my husband’s family Xmas. I felt anger well up. My in laws were looking forward to her coming, even got her a gift. She was invited of course like family. I felt anger more so at the defiant comment, and lack of seeing how it was so. It wasn’t about her coming or not, it is more the manner of dealing with it.
So what did I respond to this comment?
“okay”
That is all I said. The old me would have went on and on. I would have said: “oh no, what will you do. no come, how can we figure this out.” and then felt guilty the whole day. Instead this year I realized she is an adult, she has her own social circle. She will be just fine. She wants to spend Xmas with her dog – she will – and she isn’t some lonesome orphan. She is just fine.
And she was. And I was.
When my mother in law asked where she was, and felt bad she wasn’t there – in the sense of a sweet elder person wanting her to have a good time. I replied, oh she has plans with some friends, she is having a great time. My mother in law looked relieved, and said – thats good.
And it is good, and my sister did end up having plans. And even if she didn’t my decision was made.
I decided that back and forth and way of acting wasn’t going to be apart of my life. I can’t and don’t blame her – but frenzied behavior led me to injury! So decreasing frenzy and angst are the only way for me. Only way.
Xmas was wonderful and guilt free. I thought wow – this is what it is supposed to feel like. No mother, no sister dragging me down. I am able to be in the moment and enjoy this with my family, MY inner circle. I have a right to. I deserve to. This is what life is all about.
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I am glad you stayed back from a cold camping weekend, and likely instead found some cozy warmth. I hope you enjoyed quality time with your husband, and some good red wine.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Good morning. Happy Holidays. How do you celebrate this week? I wonder.
We are going to a cousin’s home tomorrow. My sister is coming as well (as you know my husband’s family invites her as family as well). I have already (yes already) ran into one passive aggressive comment from her this morning. I won’t get into all the details as I don’t want to sully today. It is Xmas Eve, I am at work – luckily a half day – and almost done with this job. My husband and I are in a good place as a team, even if the past few weeks have been stressful. I have learned a lot.
So back to my sister. I read her comment and first annoyed, irritated, feeling anger well up. Then angry at myself for getting angry! Then went back to our talks about her. Keep it at the surface, any deep is too deep. okay – but that doesn’t apply. What else did Anita say?
Oh that!! That my sister has a lot of hidden anger and her MO is to operate with indirect communication. Yes! That’s it!
So I reread the comment and thought to myself: this is an inappropriate comment, AND inappropriate way of acting, not just as an adult, but to a sister that does nothing but include you. Nope.
So for the first time ever I wrote the following:
That is not an appropriate answer, here are the two options for tomorrow, let me know within an hour.
Done. I am working on seeing my sister as the adult she is. The only communication we were ever taught was hysteria, passive aggressive, and inflammatory. And that is not okay. I no longer have to excuse this behavior as “it’s okay I am like that too.”
Because I am not Anita. I am not. And I won’t allow myself to be. And if someone around me is, well sorry it isn’t appropriate.
Phew! Roar!!!
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It’s been an epic year. The word that comes to find is this: difficult. Difficult and grueling. The year started with my sister bombarding me with herself, and look today – not much has changed in her form of communication. You know I feel that sometimes when I am around her I “dumb myself down” to acting just that way – makes sense because it was rooted in that house of sickness as you say.
No more.
What’s more? This has been a year, 2019, of learning how to first become a wife at all, and then a good one. The good aspect just recently, maybe just over the last month ( I know we have talked about this for a long time but as you likely noticed, only recently did I really take it on). Divorcing my sick family is the only way to be married to a good person.
Yes, Divorcing my sick family indeed!!!
I tried to do both, it didn’t work. I “divorced my parents” but still kept their voices and guilt. Then it faded somewhat. I didn’t see my sister as an enemy, or better put, a hindrance to growth. I saw her as a companion.
But then over the last few weeks I realized the detriment that is my sister, and how it is rocks tying me down to the past.
Yes, divorcing that guilt ridden relationship I have had (on my end) with her is key, and it is happening actively (with time) in present day.
What’s more- well this epic decision: to move or not to move.
We don’t have to discuss details today, but some other things came up about SD (likely positive) that may get us back to that 50-50 on the fence mark. We are going to let ourselves relax during the holidays and not get too worked up about that. And allow ourselves time (now that we have it). Thank you for your tremendous support during this time!
I am grateful above all, for such a dear and loving husband. You wouldn’t believe it Anita – I truly see him differently over the last week. Literally visually! Seeing things in him more endearing and lovely than ever! It is like falling in love. Yes belated, but it is here. I am finally able to learn to love my husband properly. It is a beautiful thing, isn’t it…?
Sigh
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I like knowing this, that you enjoyed NYC – it feels special knowing that. Maybe because we speak so closely and intimately – it is fun to discuss your experience here. Oh how I love that!
Here’s the thing, I don’t think I have truly appreciated living here since we moved here a year ago. Started off with overwhelmed by my sister, then my moods and ups and downs and not doing so well with controlling my aggression and anger as you know.
So there fore, we weren’t living in NYC were we? We weren’t really living at all. anywhere.
Wow – weren’t stopping and taking it all in were we? No we were stuck in sadness and negativity – mostly because of me.
I, anita, hold the key to the hapiness in my relationship really – and so it is up to me! To appreciate what is in front of us!!!
Cali ChicaParticipantAnita,
Do YOU love NYC?
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I read what you wrote twice, especially the part about the beach. You know what visual came to me?
NYC…
lights during xmas time
central park with fresh snow, central park with lavendar bloom
quiet streets in upper east side
graffiti in lower east side
quiet on the river
insanity on the subway
—-everything and anything for any age – can never tire of it, and when you feel too tired of it, there is respite – upstate, the beach, my in laws beautiful home.
there is magic here – there is magic here! i just have been overlooking it with CA in my eyes of recent.
I know I love nyc, and nyc is me, it is my husband – it is us and our story and our energy – we should not try to push ourselves away from it no longer..
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I think so. Also the concept of viewing nyc as dark and aggressive and California as light and free. An over simplification of course. Of course!
especially when real life and work are involved – not so light and free at all.
maybe realizing this and seeing that my husbands opportunity out there is in fact, the opposite of light and freeing – is what I am grasping now. And seeing to it that CA may ever be an option. Yes all of the individuals at the practice were nice and calm and a breath of fresh air versus CA. But If there is a surgeon leaving (dr. T) because Costs in that practice are too high. Well that sounds unstable and not light and freeing at all.
how do I feel about that?
I feel that the illusion and allure of CA is magical perhaps – but not for physicians. Not for many. Perhaps for those who are retired or independently wealthy. Or perhaps for those who feel it’s the only option for them and are willing to “put up” with the market. Maybe.people may say the same about us in nyc, the crazy rents and parking!
oh who knows. I just know I definitely feel unsettled that’s for sure. Which is warranted
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