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    @manvsself said:
    Now let’s say that it doesn’t happen for six months, or a year, or five years. Do you really want to put all your happiness on hold until something bad happens to them? Do you really want to wait years and one day say to yourself, “Ah, she finally realized that she made a mistake in cheating on me and breaking up with me and that I was the best thing that ever happened to her.

    Yes I do. I will wait whatever it takes to see her suffer. Before that there is no justice only injustice. Before this happens I cannot feel full again.

    But who cares after all? This forum has taught me that people get over anything. I mean anything. So nothing’s really valuable.

    By getting over her is just saying that she was one out of hundreds of potential partners that could have been “as good”. There was no real magic there, it just needed to end like this because by some supernatural reason things have a direction. Therefore I should be grateful for the pain I have experienced. It’s written in the stars that I will be successful.

    I’m sorry to tell but universe is indifferent. You only see reason and purpose in places that serve your own emotional needs.

    The purpose of leukemia ridden child in agony?

    To educate the still-healthy parents?

    Doesn’t anybody else catch the “logic” here? There is just utter paradox included when you are saying that everybody is valuable and special, but in the meantime you will get over or just anybody.

    I find it more romantic to think that there is one person that is the “love of your” life instead of just thinking that whatever happens I’m so *ucking special that if I just don’t think anything and be grateful for *nothing* all magical people flow into my life.


    I have decided to go down with this ship.

    I just realised of what importance she is for me, not only as a person but as my first love that will never happen again. That also means I will never get 100% over her. She will always be there as a standard for everything. And there is no way I’m gonna degrade when it comes to my love life, but with all moving factors desrcibed earlier it’s not that plausible to meet somebody like her again. The whole idea of meeting somebody who would be better or as good as she was is just ridiculous.

    And I’m not going to swallow that BS of “she wasn’t good enough for you” or “you deserve better”. Yeah right. It was perferct as long as it lasted.

    I can’t live with the idea that she just replaced me and is now happy and moving on with her life.

    After living 14 months without her in my life I reluctantly but surely choose bitterness, cynicism and raise my middle finger for the rest of the world.

    All those advices of focusing on myself doesn’t work on me. There’s nothing I can do more now than I could do with her. She never limited my hobbies or interests. There is no treat for this “greater” freedom I now supposedly am “enjoying”. I can’t even come up with anything I would like to change in my life.

    I just need to accept the absolute fact that my life is less enjoyable as it was before when it was as good as it really gets.

    Hopefully this universe will grant me death at young age.

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by Oskari.

    Could somebody also give some tips how to deal with this anger?

    Doing sports doesn’t unload it. Drinking doesn’t take it way (I’m not using alcohol for my problems). Working 12 hours a day doesn’t help it. You just find yourself in your bed alone at night not being able to sleep normally. Biting your jaws together because you are just so incredibly angry.

    There is also one thing I have not talked about in this thread. It also makes my situation different from others.

    One factor that makes my break up harder and gives me the impression of irreplacable loss is that I’m bisexual.

    And people generally don’t like bisexuals. Actually it’s still a shameful thing.

    After being blessed with a accepting partner for almost five years I just don’t see the maths being correct here. If I someday want to start more serious relationship with some woman here is this factor I need to consider. By telling her, maybe after 6 months or so, she has two options: 1) to freak out and leave me (which I would understand knowing how ignorant people on average are) 2) accept it and embrace it as a gift or something.

    It’s more plausable that three out of four women would end up with option number one.

    So I got really *ucking lucky once.

    Maybe it’s just time to accept that love is a zero-sum game.


    Thank you Iris for your reply. It’s really nice to hear opinions from outside of your own circles (friends are always bit biased).

    This is something I really need right now. To re-think her as a personality. Is she really ruthless and egoistic? What is the emotion that is moving her? Is she insecure, maybe a little bit lost or something?

    The biggest problem I have is that I can’t help myself thinking that there is still a chance to reconciliation.

    I feel that she is somehow the victim here?

    I can’t accept that she really is like that in reality? What kind of a liar she was for almost 5 years then?

    All those memories, the best time of my life. She basically *[colloquial expression for defecating on top of something valuable]* on them.

    She really must be the richest girl I know because she can play games with two good men. I wish I was that lucky myself.

    I have also found new emotions of disappointed inside me. I’ve always been rather cynical person (really sensitive as well) about the future of humanity. Through the years I’ve buried myself under questions about the climate change, sustainability and other extremely important but depressing questions. Therefore I thought for a long time that I’m gonna be ethical and not to become a father on selfish reasons.

    Now I realise that I in reality for many years I wanted to marry that girl and have a child with her. Not for the sake of just making babies because you “need” to make babies – but just for the pure love I felt for her. If I would ever hear news that she is pregnant for this new man I don’t know what I would do. Probably just collapse totally.

    I have also taken a hold of this emotion of wanting to withdraw from the “love-market” for good. I never want to go through all of this again. Never.

    I experienced so much during those love-filled years that I think I’ve already had my part on this cosmic love-lotto. I was lucky and some people never get that lucky.

    The well has been sucked empty.

    It also means that probably with all plausible future relationships I wont feel that much as I felt with my ex. She was just perfect in every way. I know everybody says this cliché and I know nobody believes me. But really. She really was so much and it wasn’t about me leaning on her because I couldn’t stand on my own. It was no band-aid relationship.

    There was a metaphor about relationships being like butterflies that land on your palm if you are just patient enough waiting for them.

    Just remember folks that not all butterflies are beautiful. Great number of them live during night, have a lot of hair and are just disgustingly ugly.

    All butterflies are also born as slilmy worms who end up in a pod. Then they miraculously go through metamorphosis just to live few days as a butterfly.

    So if you see a buttefly on your palm remember that it’s about to die in few days and that before that it was just something ugly that ate herbs from your garden.


    Hello everyone. I thought to update my current situation and what kind of a mess my life has been since my last post. Don’t really know if anyone’s following but who cares, isn’t writing here already processing your thoughts?

    I guess many people have already said a lot of different things how to deal with this issue so I’m not expecting to hear any sudden miraculous words. I just would like to have outside opinion on what is and what has been going on in my life. Please feel free to share your thoughts.

    So…after the last post here strange things started to happen. It was my ex who contacted me after I had requested her mother to talk with her, to turn her head around and make her undertand that I had the right to face her and hear from her mouth why she dumbed me for this other guy.

    She contacted me and said tht we could meet. We met in a local park and started discussing about what had happened and why our personal lives separated. I made the questions slowly, really placing my words in the way that I could receive most of information I wanted without any unwanted verbal hussle. In a way I felt confident because in my heart I had somewhat accepted the fact that it was over.

    After maybe 50 minutes I had asked everything but she couldn’t (again) really provide me any decent answer for her behavior. First of all it wasn’t about me or something that she was missing while living with me (she seemed to be really sincere about everything). I tried to ask better questions because I just couldn’t help myself feeling totally confused. Why would she dump me if there was no_reason_behind? She told me that she felt bad about not being able to give any spesific reason. It was the distance between us she claimed. Had we seen once more during that 10 months she surmised, she had not had similar urge to go for this new guy. Believe it or leave it…I was perplexed.

    However she admitted that she had treated me really bad especially because she had not told me that it was over – that she forced me to say those words and make that conclusion from what I had seen in bloody Facebook. I was happy to learn that she had realised that now.

    Then came the strange thing..

    After 50 minutes we kind of ran out of topics. We started discussing about funny stuff that had happend to us while being abroad. We laughed together. It was just so disarming. But I was pretty much keeping my head cool even though we made new excuses to stay at the park together. Finally she needed to go to see her visiting mother. We went our own ways and I was just…baffled..but in a good way…

    I continued living my life but she contacted me again after few days admitting that she wanted to see me again. I agreed.

    We met at a nice park again together and she brought some sandwiches actually. I didn’t know what was the purpose for seeing each other but she wanted. After laughing and talking for one hour she started to cry. She just broke down emotionally crying about how horrible she felt about everything and not knowing what it meant. I caressed her there and told her (I didn’t know what the *uck was really going on) it’s gonna be okay and other blatant stuff we usually say in a given moment like that. I asked her to come to my place to continue talking (we were living nearby the park). She came and we talked more…she said that couldn’t believe anybody could ever love me more than she had. Finally she went back home to her new BF.

    Anyway..things got trickier later.

    We continued chatting about everyday stuff and after few weeks, in the beginning of August she wanted to come to my place for a dinner on a Friday night. I didn’t know where her new boyfriend was but did not really care. I was just blissed for the fact that I could have HER HERE AGAIN.

    She came and we had nice dinner and great fun. I mean GREAT and it was mutual. Things evolved and before midnight I found her at my bed. We had sex twice and it just felt magical – I’m sure she felt the same too. When I asked her she told that her boyfriend was on another city staying at her parent’s place over the weekend (for whatever reason). Funny thing was that I asked her to sleep with me until the morning but she refused saying it was too intimate. Right.

    Next week we met again and ended up kissing passionately.

    I had hope. I was happy again…and so mesmerized by this wonderful girl I had loved many years.

    Then things started slipping away again. She started creating distance and being really unclear when we could meet again and so on. It was kind of cat & mouse game. I tried my best to understand but really had hope that she would end up choosing me instead of this new guy. Back then it was unclear if this man could stay at our country for visa reasons. So I really had a chance, it really seemed like that and was logical to think that way.

    She kept me in a loose noose for like two months or so, until maybe 5 weeks ago when she told me that her new man is staying in this country and that she had made her mind about it.

    Okay, pretty legit, then to have sex with someone else.

    I had started to date a new girl but I ended that relationship because I was only thinking about my ex and it was so wrong against this new girl. I was and still am just an emotional corpse so please avoid me while you can. This new girl was rather angry about my desicion but I had told her in the beginning that I was a fresh one with this break up so she knew what to expect. She was still angry and told me that it is so sad to see me being emotionally enslaved by my ex – which is true!

    But what can you do?

    When my ex told about her desicion I made quite drastic move. I packed everything I found from my home into a large paper bag that was reminding me of her or was still belonging to her. I slammed my door on my way outside and marched to her home door dumping that bag there and sending her sms to let her know what was waiting her in front of her door.

    On that SMS I told her that I never ever want to see her again in this lifetime and that I will never forget her. And that she should clear her head before outsourcing her own emotional troubles to others (like me) – and that was not good behavior again from her to be so unclear about what she was up to. Rhetorically I also pointed out that I don’t even want to know how she was justifying herself with this new man because she had cheated him already.

    She replied me telling that she felt sad about what I said and wished me good things.

    I didn’t hear about her until today.

    She contacted me by email asking me to pay my debts to her. She just wants to be evil and petty. But I don’t care, I pay her.

    Interesting thing was that now she pointed out that after I have donated part of my savings to her.


    Which was pretty odd because I have not contacted her for like…6 weeks or so? And had no intention to do so.

    Could somebody just explain me what is really going on here?

    Did I really get her so infuriated by my own actions? I thought that what I did was actually a relief for her too?

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by Oskari.

    Thanks Matt for your piece of advice..

    As described being analytical by you I find it extremely hard to get a hold on the concept of being “in responsible” for your own toughts. I am eager to know and learn more about it, and I actually have some friends who have started meditating, but for me it seems that it’s kind of a religion on a new wrapping. My friends are doing yoga but maybe this mindfulness could be different thing?

    I don’t know where I get this idea but the concept of having total responsiblity over your own thoughts shares something in common with the ethos of right-wing politicians?

    You know…

    That you force the world to be your tool for success and if you don’t manage to do so – then the problem is your own personality and your lack of willpower and persistence.

    Point is that I really can’t control my own feelings as they come and go.

    I sense that there is something in my personality that wants me to be sad and not happy? It’s in the very deep core of my mind, maybe something to do with childhood when I was using self-pity to get attention because I never could earn it by being succesful in things I wanted to be good at, mainly sports and outdoors activities. Bringing A:s to home from school never really boosted that manly machismo in the same way as competing against other boys and winning them.

    Funny that even as an adult you feel that you never got that medal you always wanted…


    After I have chewed my own emotions these things have been the hardest to face and accept:

    – Feelings of injustice –> How can she be doing so well when I am almost destroyed as a person? How can she even have RIGHT to do so?

    – Feelings of being expendable –> She really saw no worth for me. Ditched me like nothing. Thank you very much for those shared years..

    – Feelings of inequality –> How come she did everything right (for her) and experienced and achieved so much more than I did (my perception). Silly thought but I can’t help myself..

    – Feelings of irreplaceable loss –> She has (for me) unmatched combination of looks, intelligence, personality and sexual compatibility…things that most of women I’ve met in my life so far have not been able to deliver

    – Feelings of losing part of my emotional capacity –> Though love at first sight may sound trite, it’s still there, but it is related to naivety. When people grow and get hurt they lose part of this emotional capacity. You may love again but you will never ever again feel it the same way, with the same intensity, with the same playful silliness of your youth. The more you change the less you feel. Older once hurt souls can entwine together by love but can they really do it with similar passion and folly as we all once did? I find it somehow utterly dissatisfactory to think that I can’t continue my life with somebody with who I met on a slighty wet meadow on a summer evening when I was 22yo. Back then world was really more beautiful and more interesting. Instead, I guess, I have to start searching new love on a different basis – maybe it means dating and having some moccachinos on a noisy midtown café while you are losing yourself on all work-related stress and mind-numbing unnecessities. Just don’t see it compare to what you felt when you were 23yo.

    Or maybe I really am depressed…


    Thanks for everybody for contributing and helping me out with this mess. I really appreciate.

    This post maybe some kind of an update. I have not been on TB for a almost 1½ weeks I guess. I have tried to keep myself somewhat active by seeing friends, finishing my removal and buying some new nice stuff to my new house. Actually I had a foreign friend visiting me too (a woman) during this time.

    In a way I have good news I guess. Because I was not able to “lure” my ex to have conversation with me about what has happened I neened to utilize other channels to get my message to her ears. Thing that I did was to call her mother. We talked more than hour on the phone about our break up and about what happened. It was quite strange to hear that even her mother was a bit unsure about what’s going on. Seems like her own parents don’t actually know that much about what is running in her head right now. By the moment when we hung up the phone call I draw a conclusion that her decision to bring her new man to our own country has been rather a quick one. As if there has not been any serious and sound consideration on this matter. They just told that they are coming. So their love seems really intense? That new guy must really be the best man on earth for her to make her do such a drastic changes in her life..

    Eventually, in the end of last week, I received sms from her and she told that we can talk when she comes back to city in few weeks. So her mother did the job for me. I guess mothers usually have that kind of effect on people.

    And as some of you pointed out already: I really deserve that chance to talk and get some kind of closure…

    So maybe I should start thinking what I want to ask from her? It’s easier said than done…I only have finite amount of time with her and I cannot unleash my feelings uncontrollably so I need to think this stuff over…

    Maybe asking what made her feel like she felt?

    Why I was not enough for her anymore?

    Was she hiding some feelings from me during the last 6 months before we got abroad?

    I mentioned things I’ve tried to do to make myself feel better. I am just not sure if it helps. I am feeling that I am still not moving to any direction. It is incredible how much I cry and how sad I feel. As if there was void inside me. Well of course there is…

    My GP (doctor) wanted to prescibe me some SSRI-medicines (antidepressants) but after I thought it over for one week I decided not to start taking this medication. There is nothing wrong in me – feeling as shit as I feel is normal in given situation – and I have a lot to learn about my own emotions, how to balance then instead of dwelling in misery and self-pity. But that is how I am. Always really analytic, sensitive and melancholic. Not to forget my life-long issues with my self-esteem which is quite bad.

    Could somebody tell me when it is not normal anymore to “love” the person that dumbed you? I cry so much on the evenings when I am alone. Even when I am surrounded by new people I feel totally lonely, and after the event I go home and cry again.

    It has been 209 days since the day I saw her the last time and almost a year since we went abroad.

    Yet here I am not moving to any direction.

    How many years more I need to swallow these emotional razors?

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by Oskari.
    • This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by Oskari.
    • This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by Oskari.

    Thank you very much for your support! It feels like every possible type of help is now needed, even anonymous help..

    Aruni suggested that I should move out from this appartment as soon as possible. I also feel that it would help a lot but the fact is that I cannot do that economically. There is no way for me to do so. Numbers in my bank account simply doesn’t agree with that. That is why I must stay here.

    It was pure coincidence that she got her flat 50 at the same neighbourhood. Our homes are now located about 100 meters away from each other. She lives in a house “A” and I live in a houes “B”. Both are apartment houses. That helps a little bit but it does not prevent us from seeing each other sooner of later – and probably she will be with her new man when we just meet on a local grocerie shop or on a bus stop. It is basically a matter of time.

    I asked her parents about her situation and they told that she is renting that flat only for 2 months and then she has a new flat arranged for the next 12 months. And even that flat is at the same district as mine, only maybe 500 meters away.

    I have two options. To cope with all this or give up.

    That is why I really need some help.

    Because she told me that the less we talk the better I needed find another way to make things better. Yesterday I saw my psychologist for the first time and she said that the best thing I could do is to see her during next 2-3 weeks. Just to sit down and talk things over for the first time. Not accusing her about anything but just finding some answers for questions that puzzle my mind so hard. This whole break up has been just madness – I cannot believe that even she is feeling that balanced at all at this very moment. No body can dump his/her loved one of 5 years over night and never thinking him/her again!

    Or maybe she has just hit her head or something turning her into a sociopath? But that would be really odd..

    To see her would be just fair thing to do for me. Then it would not be totally devastating, intolerable and horrible to see her by accident (with her new man). At least I could have some kind of CLOSURE for all this..at this moment, I think she would not even say hello to me. I think we both would be just horrified, and things can’t stay like this..there needs to be a change..a new beginning for both..I guess

    Yesterday I also contacted her mother who was also close to me. She told me that she has also been quite confused about the things her daughter has done. She (of course) was not accusing her daughter (or me) and was not trying to pick up a side on this matter, just being diplomatic and worried about my wellbeing as well. Her mother promised to talk to my ex-girlfriend and see if she could change her mind about talking to me.

    I hope her mother can arrange me an opportunity to talk to her – not about her and her new man – but about our relationship that is now past, to get some grasp why things happened like they happened.

    Whatever I will hear from her mouth will be painful.

    But at least then I am wiser and can move on…somehow?


    • This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by Oskari.
    • This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by Oskari.

    Everything boils down to one conclusion that I can not escape:

    – I was not good for her, she found a better one
    – She really is intelligent beautiful person I still want to share my life with
    – During 5 years I enjoyed a relationship that I think was better than most people ever experience during this lifetime
    – After that experience there cannot be another one that good
    – How to move on if you DON’T want to move one, I really don’t want, I rather die than move on
    – Our life together was so meaningless for her that she gives most of her stuff for me, like it reminded her about some disease she had
    – I had bad year, she had the BEST of her life, so I “lost”
    – I am so full of hatred and bitterness that I can’t do anything
    – I am so full of jealousness for her that I can’t think anything else except how well she is doing right now

    And so on..

    I see no way how most of the advices about being grateful or forgiving yourself would work. I will never forgive myself that I lost her…

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