Devastating break up and self hatred

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    Thanks Matt for your piece of advice..

    As described being analytical by you I find it extremely hard to get a hold on the concept of being “in responsible” for your own toughts. I am eager to know and learn more about it, and I actually have some friends who have started meditating, but for me it seems that it’s kind of a religion on a new wrapping. My friends are doing yoga but maybe this mindfulness could be different thing?

    I don’t know where I get this idea but the concept of having total responsiblity over your own thoughts shares something in common with the ethos of right-wing politicians?

    You know…

    That you force the world to be your tool for success and if you don’t manage to do so – then the problem is your own personality and your lack of willpower and persistence.

    Point is that I really can’t control my own feelings as they come and go.

    I sense that there is something in my personality that wants me to be sad and not happy? It’s in the very deep core of my mind, maybe something to do with childhood when I was using self-pity to get attention because I never could earn it by being succesful in things I wanted to be good at, mainly sports and outdoors activities. Bringing A:s to home from school never really boosted that manly machismo in the same way as competing against other boys and winning them.

    Funny that even as an adult you feel that you never got that medal you always wanted…



    Taking responsibility for your thoughts is not about control… as you say “right -wing” political dominance. Instead, it is about recognizing that when our mind spins we’re not producing the conditions for our happiness. I get these ideas from Buddha (and since, my own experiences), who sat, let his mind settle, and experienced peace, wisdom and joy.

    I respect and enjoy your comparisons and resistance. πŸ™‚

    One of my teachers told me that when the mind spins out is like a whirlwind that draws us into it. For instance, our mind has a thought “why did she stop loving me” and immediately starts applying our analytical skills to the question. We imagine all sorts of answers to the question. “Shes devious” or “Something is wrong with me” or whatnot. From those answers, we imagine more questions. “Will I love again?” And imagine more answers. And on and on.

    Meanwhile, the world goes by while we circle around and around in our head. Taking responsibility for our thoughts is not about trying to “stop thinking” these things, but recognizing the spinning is harming us. Then, we open up the space around the thoughts (sitting in meditation) and the whirlwind settles naturally. Said differently, its like when a forest fire is raging through a country side and firefighters clear out parts of the forest so it does not spread and spread. This might look like: “yes, there are lots of questions, lots of unknown. However, now it is not necessary to imagine answers. Now is a good time to notice my breath. Now is a good time to sit and let the mind settle. Breathing in, I feel the air come in. Breathing out, I feel the air go out.”. As you let your attention move to the breath, the mind will pull you back in, and the effort is only to notice it and move back to feeling the breath.

    The suggested reading can help more. If you’re interested. πŸ™‚

    With warmth,


    Hello everyone. I thought to update my current situation and what kind of a mess my life has been since my last post. Don’t really know if anyone’s following but who cares, isn’t writing here already processing your thoughts?

    I guess many people have already said a lot of different things how to deal with this issue so I’m not expecting to hear any sudden miraculous words. I just would like to have outside opinion on what is and what has been going on in my life. Please feel free to share your thoughts.

    So…after the last post here strange things started to happen. It was my ex who contacted me after I had requested her mother to talk with her, to turn her head around and make her undertand that I had the right to face her and hear from her mouth why she dumbed me for this other guy.

    She contacted me and said tht we could meet. We met in a local park and started discussing about what had happened and why our personal lives separated. I made the questions slowly, really placing my words in the way that I could receive most of information I wanted without any unwanted verbal hussle. In a way I felt confident because in my heart I had somewhat accepted the fact that it was over.

    After maybe 50 minutes I had asked everything but she couldn’t (again) really provide me any decent answer for her behavior. First of all it wasn’t about me or something that she was missing while living with me (she seemed to be really sincere about everything). I tried to ask better questions because I just couldn’t help myself feeling totally confused. Why would she dump me if there was no_reason_behind? She told me that she felt bad about not being able to give any spesific reason. It was the distance between us she claimed. Had we seen once more during that 10 months she surmised, she had not had similar urge to go for this new guy. Believe it or leave it…I was perplexed.

    However she admitted that she had treated me really bad especially because she had not told me that it was over – that she forced me to say those words and make that conclusion from what I had seen in bloody Facebook. I was happy to learn that she had realised that now.

    Then came the strange thing..

    After 50 minutes we kind of ran out of topics. We started discussing about funny stuff that had happend to us while being abroad. We laughed together. It was just so disarming. But I was pretty much keeping my head cool even though we made new excuses to stay at the park together. Finally she needed to go to see her visiting mother. We went our own ways and I was just…baffled..but in a good way…

    I continued living my life but she contacted me again after few days admitting that she wanted to see me again. I agreed.

    We met at a nice park again together and she brought some sandwiches actually. I didn’t know what was the purpose for seeing each other but she wanted. After laughing and talking for one hour she started to cry. She just broke down emotionally crying about how horrible she felt about everything and not knowing what it meant. I caressed her there and told her (I didn’t know what the *uck was really going on) it’s gonna be okay and other blatant stuff we usually say in a given moment like that. I asked her to come to my place to continue talking (we were living nearby the park). She came and we talked more…she said that couldn’t believe anybody could ever love me more than she had. Finally she went back home to her new BF.

    Anyway..things got trickier later.

    We continued chatting about everyday stuff and after few weeks, in the beginning of August she wanted to come to my place for a dinner on a Friday night. I didn’t know where her new boyfriend was but did not really care. I was just blissed for the fact that I could have HER HERE AGAIN.

    She came and we had nice dinner and great fun. I mean GREAT and it was mutual. Things evolved and before midnight I found her at my bed. We had sex twice and it just felt magical – I’m sure she felt the same too. When I asked her she told that her boyfriend was on another city staying at her parent’s place over the weekend (for whatever reason). Funny thing was that I asked her to sleep with me until the morning but she refused saying it was too intimate. Right.

    Next week we met again and ended up kissing passionately.

    I had hope. I was happy again…and so mesmerized by this wonderful girl I had loved many years.

    Then things started slipping away again. She started creating distance and being really unclear when we could meet again and so on. It was kind of cat & mouse game. I tried my best to understand but really had hope that she would end up choosing me instead of this new guy. Back then it was unclear if this man could stay at our country for visa reasons. So I really had a chance, it really seemed like that and was logical to think that way.

    She kept me in a loose noose for like two months or so, until maybe 5 weeks ago when she told me that her new man is staying in this country and that she had made her mind about it.

    Okay, pretty legit, then to have sex with someone else.

    I had started to date a new girl but I ended that relationship because I was only thinking about my ex and it was so wrong against this new girl. I was and still am just an emotional corpse so please avoid me while you can. This new girl was rather angry about my desicion but I had told her in the beginning that I was a fresh one with this break up so she knew what to expect. She was still angry and told me that it is so sad to see me being emotionally enslaved by my ex – which is true!

    But what can you do?

    When my ex told about her desicion I made quite drastic move. I packed everything I found from my home into a large paper bag that was reminding me of her or was still belonging to her. I slammed my door on my way outside and marched to her home door dumping that bag there and sending her sms to let her know what was waiting her in front of her door.

    On that SMS I told her that I never ever want to see her again in this lifetime and that I will never forget her. And that she should clear her head before outsourcing her own emotional troubles to others (like me) – and that was not good behavior again from her to be so unclear about what she was up to. Rhetorically I also pointed out that I don’t even want to know how she was justifying herself with this new man because she had cheated him already.

    She replied me telling that she felt sad about what I said and wished me good things.

    I didn’t hear about her until today.

    She contacted me by email asking me to pay my debts to her. She just wants to be evil and petty. But I don’t care, I pay her.

    Interesting thing was that now she pointed out that after I have donated part of my savings to her.


    Which was pretty odd because I have not contacted her for like…6 weeks or so? And had no intention to do so.

    Could somebody just explain me what is really going on here?

    Did I really get her so infuriated by my own actions? I thought that what I did was actually a relief for her too?

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by Oskari.
    iris valera

    i kinda feel sad about this. But the only thing I can see in here is that, your ex-girlfriend is trying to play safe. What I mean is that, when things about his new man was not that sure yet (I mean about the visa and all else), she wanted to make sure somebody would be there to replace that man, in case he won’t be staying.That girl is kinda ruthless, self-centered and could not hold her own. She is sort of manipulative, knowing that you are still in love with her, so she gets whatever benefit she gets from you. What’s going on? Simple. She’s playing all her cards well, playing really well. So what I can say is that, you deserve better, man. Forget her. That’s the best thing to do. The reason why you are still holding on is that, you didn’t try to resolve it. You have to yank yourself out of this situation and focus your attention on SOMETHING or SOMEONE else. If you want to understand it better, if you are familiar with the movie “500 Days of Summer”, take the time to watch that movie. You’d see how somebody who’s so hung up with his ex moved on. Hope I was able to help πŸ˜‰


    Thank you Iris for your reply. It’s really nice to hear opinions from outside of your own circles (friends are always bit biased).

    This is something I really need right now. To re-think her as a personality. Is she really ruthless and egoistic? What is the emotion that is moving her? Is she insecure, maybe a little bit lost or something?

    The biggest problem I have is that I can’t help myself thinking that there is still a chance to reconciliation.

    I feel that she is somehow the victim here?

    I can’t accept that she really is like that in reality? What kind of a liar she was for almost 5 years then?

    All those memories, the best time of my life. She basically *[colloquial expression for defecating on top of something valuable]* on them.

    She really must be the richest girl I know because she can play games with two good men. I wish I was that lucky myself.

    I have also found new emotions of disappointed inside me. I’ve always been rather cynical person (really sensitive as well) about the future of humanity. Through the years I’ve buried myself under questions about the climate change, sustainability and other extremely important but depressing questions. Therefore I thought for a long time that I’m gonna be ethical and not to become a father on selfish reasons.

    Now I realise that I in reality for many years I wanted to marry that girl and have a child with her. Not for the sake of just making babies because you “need” to make babies – but just for the pure love I felt for her. If I would ever hear news that she is pregnant for this new man I don’t know what I would do. Probably just collapse totally.

    I have also taken a hold of this emotion of wanting to withdraw from the “love-market” for good. I never want to go through all of this again. Never.

    I experienced so much during those love-filled years that I think I’ve already had my part on this cosmic love-lotto. I was lucky and some people never get that lucky.

    The well has been sucked empty.

    It also means that probably with all plausible future relationships I wont feel that much as I felt with my ex. She was just perfect in every way. I know everybody says this clichΓ© and I know nobody believes me. But really. She really was so much and it wasn’t about me leaning on her because I couldn’t stand on my own. It was no band-aid relationship.

    There was a metaphor about relationships being like butterflies that land on your palm if you are just patient enough waiting for them.

    Just remember folks that not all butterflies are beautiful. Great number of them live during night, have a lot of hair and are just disgustingly ugly.

    All butterflies are also born as slilmy worms who end up in a pod. Then they miraculously go through metamorphosis just to live few days as a butterfly.

    So if you see a buttefly on your palm remember that it’s about to die in few days and that before that it was just something ugly that ate herbs from your garden.



    I’m sorry for the pain and suffering you’re experiencing, and its very reasonable to have a resurgence of cynicism and nihilism. Sometimes when we get burned, we become scared and judgemental about fire. The fire was never anything but energy. Said differently, love is not the problem, not an infestation in the garden with ugly and hairy and herb eating. Those are from the patterns of attachment that circle the love, and because they we broken for you by her decisions, the pain that comes along with them are vibrant and painful. A few things came to heart as I read your words.

    When we suffer through a loss, we grieve. Because you have such a fast moving and inquisitive mind, those painful emotions can push your mind to draw conclusions about the nature of the world that are cloudy at best. Instead, consider turning inward and learning about yourself. This is what anger feels like, this is what disappointment feels like, and so forth. If you can accept that the world around us looks darker when the emotions in our body are darker, then the path we’re on becomes a quest for light, and we become the light we seek. Said differently, as we heal our grief, its better for us and all those who connect with us if we let go of the big conclusions about the nature of love and romance because of a singular experience. Instead, “I am grieving, and grief is painful.”

    Namaste, brother, I hope you find peace and light.

    With warmth,


    Could somebody also give some tips how to deal with this anger?

    Doing sports doesn’t unload it. Drinking doesn’t take it way (I’m not using alcohol for my problems). Working 12 hours a day doesn’t help it. You just find yourself in your bed alone at night not being able to sleep normally. Biting your jaws together because you are just so incredibly angry.

    There is also one thing I have not talked about in this thread. It also makes my situation different from others.

    One factor that makes my break up harder and gives me the impression of irreplacable loss is that I’m bisexual.

    And people generally don’t like bisexuals. Actually it’s still a shameful thing.

    After being blessed with a accepting partner for almost five years I just don’t see the maths being correct here. If I someday want to start more serious relationship with some woman here is this factor I need to consider. By telling her, maybe after 6 months or so, she has two options: 1) to freak out and leave me (which I would understand knowing how ignorant people on average are) 2) accept it and embrace it as a gift or something.

    It’s more plausable that three out of four women would end up with option number one.

    So I got really *ucking lucky once.

    Maybe it’s just time to accept that love is a zero-sum game.

    iris valera

    Hi Oskari!
    Hope yo are coping the best way you can. But the best way to move on and carry on is acceptance. Don’t get controlled by your anger. Try to manage it. If you want to cry, and then cry. No use fighting the emotion you have, as long as it does not make you do harmful things.
    But then again, it’s about perspective. Maybe it is time to have a clearer view of the world. Life is not perfect, It can’t be and will never be. And so are relationships. Things are all temporary, and people change, no matter what you do. Some stay, some just disappear or go away. And still others may leave you at any moment. You can always think of the good memories, but you can’t hang on to them forever. Acceptance is the best way to let go of things and move on. Your ex-gf’s emotions were real then. But people change. And perhaps, she changed too soon. That was then, so you might as well live on the present. She might not have lied about her true feelings for you within those five years, but as I’ve said, that was then. What about now? Does she still feel the same?
    You cannot question people for what they feel or what they do. You can only let them be. Cause one way or another, we do things we can’t explain ourselves sometimes. And it is us who can better understand why.
    So even as you try hard to understand her true nature, her true feelings or why did she do something like that, it’s only her who can understand herself better. She might not be able to explain it better to anyone, cause maybe, she really can’t. No matter the complexity of a person’s nature is, I think, she’s the only one who’s responsible with it.
    Try to focus not on her, but focus the energy on yourself. Maybe you need to love yourself first before you will be able to totally understand other people or love them, too.
    Believe me, been there, done that. And I have totally moved on. And don’t ever doubt yourself. I mean your being a bisexual. It doesn’t matter at all. You just have to find the right person, or the person with a similar perspective on things so you can grow together and not grow apart.
    I am not sure if I am making this clear, but that’s what I think.
    Don’t be too hard on yourself. πŸ˜‰



    I have decided to go down with this ship.

    I just realised of what importance she is for me, not only as a person but as my first love that will never happen again. That also means I will never get 100% over her. She will always be there as a standard for everything. And there is no way I’m gonna degrade when it comes to my love life, but with all moving factors desrcibed earlier it’s not that plausible to meet somebody like her again. The whole idea of meeting somebody who would be better or as good as she was is just ridiculous.

    And I’m not going to swallow that BS of “she wasn’t good enough for you” or “you deserve better”. Yeah right. It was perferct as long as it lasted.

    I can’t live with the idea that she just replaced me and is now happy and moving on with her life.

    After living 14 months without her in my life I reluctantly but surely choose bitterness, cynicism and raise my middle finger for the rest of the world.

    All those advices of focusing on myself doesn’t work on me. There’s nothing I can do more now than I could do with her. She never limited my hobbies or interests. There is no treat for this “greater” freedom I now supposedly am “enjoying”. I can’t even come up with anything I would like to change in my life.

    I just need to accept the absolute fact that my life is less enjoyable as it was before when it was as good as it really gets.

    Hopefully this universe will grant me death at young age.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by Oskari.


    I just read your entire thread and I’m so glad that I did. I just want to offer some of my experiences and possibly some hope.

    First of all, a book I enjoyed immensely is Do One Thing Different by Bill O’Hanlon. The premise is that you don’t have to understand the reason behind things to make changes or be different. For example, let’s say that I eat compulsively. I can spend thousands at a therapist and figure out that my mom fed me junk food, that I was molested, or that I was just born with a sweet tooth. No matter what the cause, eating junk food and watching a ton of tv still aren’t helping me regardless of what the reason is. In the same way, I learned that I don’t need to know the reasons behind a break up in order to get over it. I had a fiance who cheated on me while I was on a business trip for a month and the night before I got back, I found out through an acquaintance on facebook. When I came back, I barely said anything to him because it doesn’t matter if he did it becasue he was lonely, because we were going through a rough time, becasue he was drunk, it makes no difference what the reasoning is, the way it was handled wasn’t right. He was a coward, could barely look at me and never apologized or explain himself to me. Your worth is not determined by how other people treat you. A baby can shit on a hundred dollar bill…that doesn’t mean that the bill isn’t worth a hundred dollars, it means that the baby doesn’t know it’s worth.

    Another thought to consider…let’s say that you are filled with hatred and bitterness. I can relate to your intense feelings, so I will share my experience with that. I couldn’t wait for the day for my ex to get an STD or for the new girl to get dumped and/or cheated on. It wasn’t me at my best, but those were my only thoughts that made me feel satisfied and like justice was being served. Now let’s say that it doesn’t happen for six months, or a year, or five years. Do you really want to put all your happiness on hold until something bad happens to them? Do you really want to wait years and one day say to yourself, “Ah, she finally realized that she made a mistake in cheating on me and breaking up with me and that I was the best thing that ever happened to her. NOW I can live life and go back to enjoying whatever is out there.” Forgiveness doesn’t mean what the other person did was okay, it just means that you accept that you can’t change the past. That’s it. You can’t control how it happened, how unfair it is, or when she will realize her lessons. The only thing you can control is you. As far as controlling your thoughts, a thought can come into your head, but that doesn’t mean that you have to entertain it or obsess on it. If you are riddled with negative thoughts, I would recommend immersing yourself in anything and everything positive. Use your imagination is for the better, not worse. Otherwise you are just tormenting yourself with thoughts which might not even be ture! Which brings me to other ideas…

    Pretend that you have amnesia. Ask yourself if you knew nothing about your past and your objective was to make a lot of progress each day, what would you be doing? What makes you intrinsically happy? How would you stay productive?

    Learning how to cope with heart wrenching and injustice is an excellent skill. There is nothing new under the sun, so no matter what you are feeling, someone out there has felt it too. Stay productive, journal, be grateful for what you have while you still have it, work out a ton and immerse yourself in positive things.

    Another creative exercise is to pretend you are an author and write your story. If everything in your life was happening on purpose and was being strategically written to help the protagonist, why would someone choose your situation? To become a turn around expert? To learn how to be unstoppable? To recognize and appreciate people with character and empathy? I also met someone who seemed spectacular in looks and intelligence…I later learned that he was a sociopath. I didn’t realize it until after we broke up. I read The Sociopath Next Door and now I realize that character and empathy are MUSTS which I take for granted in most people.

    I hope that you keep posting. I wish you clarity and insight. Take care of yourself.


    <cite> @manvsself said:</cite>
    Now let’s say that it doesn’t happen for six months, or a year, or five years. Do you really want to put all your happiness on hold until something bad happens to them? Do you really want to wait years and one day say to yourself, “Ah, she finally realized that she made a mistake in cheating on me and breaking up with me and that I was the best thing that ever happened to her.

    Yes I do. I will wait whatever it takes to see her suffer. Before that there is no justice only injustice. Before this happens I cannot feel full again.

    But who cares after all? This forum has taught me that people get over anything. I mean anything. So nothing’s really valuable.

    By getting over her is just saying that she was one out of hundreds of potential partners that could have been “as good”. There was no real magic there, it just needed to end like this because by some supernatural reason things have a direction. Therefore I should be grateful for the pain I have experienced. It’s written in the stars that I will be successful.

    I’m sorry to tell but universe is indifferent. You only see reason and purpose in places that serve your own emotional needs.

    The purpose of leukemia ridden child in agony?

    To educate the still-healthy parents?

    Doesn’t anybody else catch the “logic” here? There is just utter paradox included when you are saying that everybody is valuable and special, but in the meantime you will get over or just anybody.

    I find it more romantic to think that there is one person that is the “love of your” life instead of just thinking that whatever happens I’m so *ucking special that if I just don’t think anything and be grateful for *nothing* all magical people flow into my life.



    I did not mean to anger you by what I said. I apologize if it came off as insensitive. I can only tell you what time has taught me. I can’t guarantee that the past could have been different or that your future will be bright. I needed years to get clarity and closure for my situation. I wish I was omniscent and objective at all times, unfortunately with the human experience sometimes things only started to make sense to me with time.

    Concerning your post, I am not saying to be grateful for the pain you’ve experienced for the sake of suffering. I’ve learned that it’s more logical to find something good about the situation not becasue it’s spiritual, but becuase it’s what’s in front of you and what you know for sure. That’s your Given. To wish that things were different, when they are not, is not going to change anything. It just delays whatever progress I could have been making. I’m sure that for everyone on this forum who has gleaned something from the situaiton, there is someone out there who went through the same thing who is resigned and bitter. Everyone goes through heartache and loss, but how you deal with it is what makes you different.

    There is a quote, “Pain is inevitable but suffering is optional.” Meaning, you can put your hand on the stove and burn yourself, and the pain is real and warranted. How many times you relive that moment and envision it in detail is up to you. You sound beyond heartbroken and I’m not saying you *should* be over it already. I’ve come to appreciate moving on and letting go as coping skills that I try to utilize as soon as possibe becuase I learned the hard way that reliving things over and over and imagining what should have happened, how I didn’t deserve it, and what my ex was up to wasn’t getting me anywhere. I just started to become a depressed and angry shell of a person and I was hard to be around. After a year of everything eating me up, my mom died. I spent the last year of her life telling her how awful my ex and so called friends were. Did I *deserve* to be treated so badly? No. Was it warranted how furious I was? Yes. I was completely justified, but it was still a waste of time.

    What I learned is that people do things because they are human. We are inherently selfish, weak, illogical, hurting creatures who are trying to learn things and sometimes there are casualties. No one is going to get it right all the time. My best defense isn’t closing off to all life because someone special to me is human, nor is it hurting others, but to learn how to understand that sometimes people change or people make mistakes and learn how to heal my heart anyway. The only person you can control is you. That’s it. Everyone else is a wild card with no guarantees of how long they will stay or what lessons they might need to learn.

    Concerning people being valuable and special, people can be that and that doesn’t mean that they have to stay in your life forever. They’re not mutually exclusive. You had five wonderful years. Some people never get experience a love like that at all, let alone for five years. I understand that you are talking about “The One.” I can’t speak on whether that exists or not, but what I can tell you is that in my belief system, I believe that if someone cheats on me that they can’t possibly be The One. The One for me would never dream of hurting me like that, no matter what other flaws they might have. Any “failed” relationship merely gives me more distinctions of what I waant and need in my next relationship. Sometimes it was hard for me to believe that my judge of character was so off, or hard to believe how much a person could change, or believe what a person is capable of when they are in complicated situations or stressed, but learning to see those distinctions things make me pick better partners now.


    Hi Oskari,
    I just read your entire thread and I’d like to weigh in. I’m also going through something devastating and extremely painful with an ended relationship. The members who have contributed to this have said so many great things that I agree whole-heartedly with, that I don’t know how much more I can offer in the way of advice. I’m new here and very impressed with the insight people on here have and share.

    But I get the impression that you feel you’re beyond advice at this point, and you just want to vent and try to figure out how to live and deal with your anger. The paradox you pointed out seems logical on the surface. But just because you can get over someone doesn’t make them less valuable and special. It’s means you’ve done something for yourself, in spite of anything about them or having to do with them.

    You said that focusing inward on yourself doesn’t work for you. I get that. It might be more accurate to say that you don’t want to focus inward because you aren’t ready to stop focusing on the girl and how much you want justice served. I might be wrong. But, I also understand the feeling of wanting the other person to suffer so badly that you feel if you let that go, you’re somehow letting them off the hook and they get away with what they’ve done with no proper punishment.

    Taking this one step at a time, and sorry if this falls under ‘advice’, but what I’ve been reading that is helping me deal with the same thing is “Tiny Buddha – Simple Wisdom for Life’s Hard Questions”. by Lori Deschene. I downloaded the Kindle version to my pc and started reading it within seconds. Then after a while, I ordered the hardcover version because it’s that good. Especially the first chapter about pain. It hit right at the heart of the matter for me. There are no simple answers to things like this, but there is some simple wisdom that you might be able to find answers in. It’s worth a shot. I’ll be off and on here and hope to help in any way I can.

    Best regards, Angie



    Your last message on this thread was over 4 years ago, so your account might not still be active. I read the whole thread. How are you doing now, and were you able to recover from your (fully justified) anger and bitterness?


    I wish you well,


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