Hi,

Some time was passed and things have changed. I realized that for a little while I was “triggered” back into some abandonment issues (or something like that) and was not thinking rationally and I am embarrassed. I was in “nothing is okay” mode and was looking to something outside of myself to feel okay again, which is not possible and I was not being smart. Some of the sentiments were and still are true, like absolutely I would like to be a good friend to this person if I can. He is someone I feel deeply attached to, and in some ways have been in love with, but he isn’t and will never be a boyfriend to me. We feel the same about each other in that way.

anita, I don’t know what to say in response to all the things I have said in the past about my childhood/mother. I re-read it all now and I would say that I was “reaching” when I said a lot of those things. I was trying to piece things together and come up with “facts”.  I feel now that there’s no way to know how things truly were. For sure there were painful moments in my life like everyone has, but I have no idea if or which ones are the reasons behind anything in my life.  Many of my thoughts about myself and feelings day to day are the same, even after years. The only thing that has ever made a positive/healing change in me is if I experience something new or contrasting. That was in the back of my mind when I started this thread. I wanted to experience something new. I am curious what your response will be if you have one.

hi again anita and Teak (and anyone else who may read this)

I want to say that I deeply appreciate your sharing, thoughtfulness, and time spent with me on this thread. It helps me feel less lonely in the moment, but as things settle in I start to feel great amounts of anxiety and shame around what I post. I feel like I never should have never should’ve opened my mouth. Coincidentally, I started this thread in a similar place but hoping to find some way to feel better about it. At the moment I feel like its too hard to pull myself out of. I feel confused right now. I don’t know what to say. I worry I waste people’s time on here… that I am always spinning around in circles and being difficult and weird and  unreachable. I don’t know if I have anything else to say.

anita,

I want to start by saying I appreciate the research you have done, and now shared with me to help me better understand myself and my experiences. Here are some things I found interesting/relevant as I was reading:

1. “Your touch can lower the levels of the stress hormone cortisol in his body, leading to better sleep patterns in infancy and a tendency to be less fearful or inhibited later in life”

This fits that that perhaps I was not given this type of bonding touch. My mom herself companied to me that as a baby, I was a terrible sleeper, did not like to nap, and would wake them up throughout the night. I became extremely inhibited and fearful by the age of 5, and have been throughout my life.

2. “Many children who have not had ample physical and emotional attention are at higher risk for behavioral, emotional and social problems as they grow up…”

This reminds me of the reason I originally began this thread. I was feeling shame about my life long history of behavioral and social issues. This is relatively unspecific and simply put, but relevant.

3. Everything you have shared about being a “active” or “passive agent”, and the pattern of “learned helplessness”

These ideas are new to me. I can see in what you put together that I have displayed a pattern of learned helplessness. In some ways, I do feel it is true for me. Specifically around when you said “feeling that there is something terribly wrong with you for not taking the actions needed to be taken” … I did feel this way, I blamed myself and held myself as the one responsible for my misery I was in. I am not sure if that fits in. I will have to look more into learned helplessness. Perhaps I was in a state of thinking “I have caused this for myself and I want to change it, but I don’t know what I need or how I can get out of it”… That seems to fit. I may have some ideas, but many times I am still so unsure and lack the confidence to make any change with my ideas.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by ninibee.

anita,

You said, “Maybe that’s the emptiness you talked about at the time, not having anyone to live for, is how you put it, if I remember correctly.

Is that it?”

I can remember at the time thinking if I had someone to share my goals/projects/achievements with that I would be more motivated in life. For much of my life, I have been solely motivated by getting attention (or connection). As you can imagine, sometimes this was very unhealthy. Sometimes it was more neutral, or even somewhat positive. For example, I use to go to swing dancing classes just to be around people. I actually do not know if I liked swing dancing or not (and at the time I had absolutely no idea if I liked the dancing, I just knew I liked the social event).

In regards to that time in my life (that I made that post 2019), I remember thinking a lot “why should I put in all this effort to go to college and be successful in life if at the end of the day I have nobody to there for me that would care?” I felt life is worthless/empty without connection. And that is where my fantasy mother came in. A fantasy of a positive connection that would motivate me to make positive change in my life.  Additionally, it seems easier to value yourself/see your worth when you have someone who holds that view of you.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by ninibee.

TeaK I think you make a very good point. In the very least, my mom was not able to accept me on a bodily level from the time I was a baby. When I have watched her hold or interact other people’s babies, I feel like I can sense her nervousness and discomfort. She seems very unnatural with a baby, like she has not ever been a mother before. So I assume it would’ve been the same when I was a baby… I was a icky and unpredictable object to her. I also think you are right the connection to my fear of vomiting.

anita,

I want to say thank you for sharing more about your own experience with shame. It helps me feel less alone and gives me some hope for my own situation. I feel like what you said,  “I was mentally unwell, confused, desperate, in pain, and therefore likely to act in shameful ways. And I did.” describes exactly my experience with myself. I hadn’t heard it put quite like that before.

It is hard to see myself as an innocent child. But it is also hard to remember things from my childhood in general. If my mom was putting her shame onto me as a child, it was definitely done in a way that is hard to pinpoint. Or maybe it is clear but I am not able to see it. Is it important that I see it to be able to heal from it?

I might have more to say but I am still thinking about it.

anita,

Hearing more about your experience with shame has brought up a few more questions for me. It sounds like you determined for yourself that the shame was given to you, that it was not yours, that you did not deserve it being given to you. I can see how coming to see that truth would help release shame.

I do wonder if our situations are different, because I think I have done a lot to be ashamed of. Maybe there have been some times that people shamed me for things that I did not deserve to be shamed for, but I do not see those times as clearly as I have seen the shameful I have done.

So my questions are: How do you know when someone deserves to feel the shame they feel vs when someone does not? How can someone who has done shameful things live on in peace? Maybe some people would say in certain cases that the people who have done shameful things do not deserve to be at peace.

And also, is there something to you that indicates that I was shamed or given shame in a similar way to you? And if so, has that lead me to a life of shame somehow, that I do not see yet?

You don’t have to answer all the questions by any means, I don’t expect you to be all-knowing, but I am curious to see  more of your perspective.

Brandy,

I just did look back through that thread, and it makes me cry and feel sick to my stomach. I do see you said you wanted to support me and I feel you did show that. I think unfortunately I had a negative takeaway from that thread in the end, the feelings of shame were too big and I was too defensive throughout it, which made me unreachable. I also felt like I was overwhelmed and disappointing everyone. I still live with the shame of that situation and when I think about it, I wish I could undo it… which is true for way too many things I have caused.