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ParadoxMusic

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  • #431684
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    She apologized for saying that it was not my business to know about what happened in January but she could still be manipulating the truth. I live in the Caribbean country.

    “Well, if emotions are inferior and women base their decisions on emotions, it does make women’s decision making inferior, doesn’t it? “ Yes it would make the women’s decision making SKILLS appear inferior in general cause emotions cause you to make rash decisions a lot. But that doesn’t mean women’s opinion should be invalidated. My father taught me to still consider it because there are times when the women is actually right but it is my responsibility to make sure if the woman’s decision is logically viable. There are certain things that women are good at and certain things that men are good at. Please don’t misunderstand, I am not trying to be disrespectful to women.

    Treasured does not mean they should take care of their husband’s needs. Treasured is more like saying the women should be considered a prize. Someone who should be protected at all costs. Someone who should be loved and cared for and understood and valued.

    B keeps saying that she is not trying to justify her actions. She says that she is only explaining how she felt. I understand my mistakes and I want to correct them. But reading her messages make me feel like maybe she is right, maybe I am the problem overall. Maybe women are just better off without me.

    Paradoxy

    #431677
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    This is what she said:

    I have dated you for almost 2 years.
    We started on rocky grounds, and I am fully aware of that. The fights and lies were a lot to deal with for both of us. We both had things about us that, if worked on at the time, would have put us in a better place right now.
    I know for a fact that some of the things I did were unacceptable, and I never should’ve done them. I never should have lied to you about Trevor being the one who was taking out my braids, and I never should’ve kept what happened in January from you.
    You had a right to know both pieces of information. And I am sorry I didn’t tell you. I know that we have had many mini-fights that could have been avoided if we really knew what we were doing and how to do it correctly.
    Though we have talked about this before and we have some clarity on the matter, I will still make mention of it.
    When we just started dating, everything felt new. You fell in love with me immediately, but I have loved you over time. I took the time to learn about you and love you as I went. I never had a fairytale belief in love; I knew that love would hurt and disappoint, so I never expected anything from you other than respect and faithfulness, and I believe that this is what contributed to my overlooking many small, hurtful things you did. Because I gave up on the idea of “my ideal love/fairytale love,” there is no perfect person, but there is someone perfect for everyone. But because I was your first relationship, you had expectations, and when those weren’t met, I was crucified but made excuses for it at the same time.
    Do not misunderstand; dealing with someone who has never been in an actual relationship before is a beautiful experience, but the emotional pressure you are put under is a lot. Because I know I am being held to a certain standard, I have always told you that I felt like you were pure, and I didn’t like that I had sex with you. I felt terrible because I knew that I had so many things to deal with that I could never tell you. Though I was your girlfriend, it felt like I was your protector, like I was supposed to deal with whatever was thrown at me by myself but show up for you in the best way possible as well, and that’s why I didn’t explain the January situation to you as it happened. It was 2.5 months into the relationship, and I never felt safe enough to tell you because I felt like I needed to be the one who was there for you. I didn’t feel protected by you, Godwin. You think I didn’t wish I could just run to you and lay everything at your feet? You think I didn’t want to just tell you everything and know that I was safe and secure? You don’t think I would love the feeling of me feeling like I don’t have to worry because my man got me?
    Godwin, you had broken up with me while I was going through the inhumane things I was experiencing, and then the things your parents said about me that had you upset and coming to me, which then turned into a fight later, made me feel like I really needed to handle things on my own.
    I did not feel safe telling you any of that. How can I go to you and tell you that after what your parents said? Your parents labeled me as a gold digger, a girl trying to secure her future by dating you; they said I was taking advantage of you; I would cheat on you, etc., all because I am black and from the west. I know you are going to say it’s because we don’t have the same race, morals, etc. Same difference.
    I had already never felt safe. I love you, and I felt like over time we would reach that level of security in our relationship, but I was not feeling it, and with the fight and what your parents said added on top of it, I decided to deal with it on my own.
    I do not blame you or anyone else for anything. I was a grown 21-year-old who was dumb in my ways. I take responsibility for my actions.
    I never intended on taking you back. I knew I loved you, but I planned to love you from afar. My aunt had suggested that I let you be with an Indian since your family wants you to be with one. She told me to leave you alone. My cousins told me to leave you alone, and my friends told me to let you go date an Indian.
    But I didn’t leave you alone; I spoke to you after, like, nothing happened. I was wrong for that. But it felt like you were the only good thing in my life at the time, and I just couldn’t let you go either, so we talked about the breakup and got back together.
    A few months passed, and we had mini-fights throughout, and you called me a bitch, etc.—a whole lot of name-calling. We addressed those and talked about them.
    Then one day, you were over here. We slept that night, and the morning we were laying in bed together, and I asked you what your type of woman was. You looked at me and said, Lightskin, straight, long hair, slim. Godwin,I am a black, afro-haired, slim woman. I was so broken. I could not believe it. I cried so much after you left. It scarred me. I started looking at everything differently, but we had many conversations regarding it, and you kept getting annoyed each time I brought it back up. You keep saying you explained it the last time, and it was just what your parents made you believe, but you should keep bringing it up. And you disliked me for that. You couldn’t understand that I was truly hurting from it. You just saw me as annoying.
    And each time I mentioned it, we fought because you didn’t want to hear it because you felt like you explained it and solved the issue. But that’s not how healing works. Just because I brought up something you did in the past doesn’t mean I misunderstood your original explanation of it or that I need you to repeat it again. Sometimes I just want you to listen keenly to how it made me feel and not tell me how I should feel since you explain it.
    Sigh Godwin I have always loved you, and I always will. You were a good man with some bad ways, and that’s fine.
    You lied to me about Prayanka, and you deleted the messages, but I had already seen them. But you were unaware, and you lied to me straight up about it. I was asking you about it for days, and you would look at me and lie. Then, when I told you, I read the conversation with you and her before you deleted it. You confessed that it happened and that you were sorry, and then you left me.
    You left me to find the truth. And I went back to you. I literally begged you to stay with me. Godwin, you packed up everything and were walking out the door. I wrestled with you to stay over something you did to me. And Pryanka is what you described as your type; she matches your own definition.
    You never posted about me. You never comment under my posts, but as we broke up, you went under a light-skinned married woman post and commented thirsty stuff. You don’t tell me I’m beautiful, but you will let a stranger on the internet know that. You don’t make me feel wanted. And you get so upset when I wear a bikini to the pool. To a private pool. And I posted the photo on my story. You may have been my boyfriend, but there were certain areas of me that needed you, and you ignored those. Do not misunderstand; I am not saying I posted my photos on my status because I wanted attention. I felt like I was cute, so I posted them. And at that time, you left me again.

    Back to what I was saying, we were together in bed another night, and I found out that you messaged other people on the app that I knew about. When I went through the messages, you were texting multiple women who were not even responding to you. Then you tell me they are like “sisters” to you. As I was scrolling, you started shouting, telling me to stop, but I looked at everything. Then I turned to you, and I started crying, because that was all I could do. Then I said, I thought you said you weren’t in a relationship before and you’ve never gotten nudes, and you said, “I forgot about those.”
    I cried again and again, and you decided to leave me, AGIAN!!! over something you did that I found out. Lol. And you know what I did? I stood like a woman with no self-worth and begged you not to leave. I told you it was okay, and I tried to tell myself all sorts of lies to have you around. I had lost all forms of self-respect.
    I cried so much and begged you to stay. Then you did. A few months later, I suggested we go on a picnic since it would be cute, a lot of people wouldn’t be around, and it would just be nice to spend time with you. You started an argument, then told me we are incompatible and we probably shouldn’t be together. Lol.
    I am crying as I write this because I cannot believe I went through this much. Anyway, I had a conversation with you again, and I found myself apologizing to you for wanting to go on a date with you. Lol. Sigh, oh Lord. And I accepted it. I took the blame for asking. Your reason was that I am an extrovert and you don’t like people, etc., and being in the open makes you anxious, etc. So I said okay. And I left it alone.
    The last time we had a fight, I asked you for 15 minutes to do me a favor, and you said you were busy, so I stated I would wait, and then you got upset, then I started saying you preferred your game over mine, then you left me and told me I crossed the line right there.
    I told you about January a year later because I felt like we were at a place where I could tell you what I went through and we could’ve handled it together. But you turned the entire thing around. And you got offended. You you I cheated on you; I never did. We were not together, and I hope you are not out here telling anyone I cheated on you because I never did.
    Godwin This message is not to start a fight with you or to blame you for anything. I know how you are; you will pick things from what I say to come and argue with me about, and I really don’t have the nerve for it.
    Before I met you, I was happy and glowing. While I was dating you, I became unrecognizable. I was sad; I was always trying to please you, wear what you wanted me to wear, say what you wanted me to say, and do what was pleasing in your eyes. I don’t know how I got to that point.
    Now you tell me every chance you get that you hate me with a passion. That I am stupid and annoying, etc., etc., I go on and on about the thing I went through and all.
    But I have said enough.
    I have no problem with you at all as a person. You had your good ways, and so did I, and we both had our bad ways.
    Maybe we were bad for each other, but like I said, we are probably good for someone else.
    Never date a woman outside your race again if you actually care about her mental health.
    I saw you showing interest in an Indian that ignored you, but you will find your person when the time is right. Don’t force it.
    I leave you in peace. I have no ill feelings toward you, and I will focus on bettering myself and loving myself more.
    Have a good life. Bye bye.
    I want you to read all of this and tell me your take on what she said, cause I want to read your understanding of this before I explain everything. It doesn’t look like this thread is going to end any time soon.

    Paradoxy

    #431676
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    Unfortunately we cannot work with just assumptions, I don’t want to take that chance.

    “However, in your very first post, on March 20, you said that the preparations were made with her knowledge.” In a recent conversation she claimed that she found out where the money was coming from a day before the guy took her. But she was told that a man was interested in her, though she declined, her aunt still made preparations without her knowing and only informed her on the day the guy came to take her for a drive. She slept with the man the next day. So based on that, she knew her aunt’s plan, but she had apparently rejected that plan. But the plan was still in motion without her being aware of it until the guy came for her. When the money came, she assumed it was from her aunt, but she found out the real source when the guy came. That is what she told me when I asked about it again.

    Maybe stereotype number 1 did blind me. But a lot of guys told me it was normal, so I thought it was normal too.

    As for suppressing emotions….
    My father never said that women are inferior, he just said that women will be hard to deal with cause of their actions are based on emotions than logic, but they should still be treasured. Yes B is twisting logic. And It is unbearable. She sent me a message recently which I will share with you but it has me very very very pissed of at how she is twisting the truth and my ego refuses to let go of it. I still tried to fight against her logic but the anger that was induced by what she said was too hard for me to control. But I still somehow managed to control it cause of what Anita said lol. I will share what she said in the next post.

    Paradoxy

     

    #431649
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    Yes Tee, I understand, there is nothing wrong about your harshness. I was just afraid to face reality.

    I don’t exactly understand what you are trying to say about the man in the photo issue. I don’t see where you could have assumed that she slept with the ex. I will reclarify everything from that event:

    After a week of dating, on a Friday, B told me that she still had feelings for ex and was having trouble deciding between me and her ex. She asked me what I would do so I told her that I would not date either person because it would be better to not date at all than have a relationship with someone while still holding feelings for the other. She agreed and we broke up, but we got back together cause she said she “chose me”. Several weeks later, I found a picture/video on her snap with her in a towel with a man removing her braids. I didn’t say anything at first but when I saw that she deleted the video, I confronted her and she said it was one of her exes, the one who she still had feelings for. She did not imply anything about sleeping with the man. I am the one saying that she COULD HAVE slept with him, and she could just be lying to me by not giving the details of what happened on that day, cause she was naked with only a towel wrapped around her. Everyone has hormones and if she was sexually stimulated enough by her ex, she COULD HAVE slept with him. Due to that fear of being lied to, I broke up with her, but took her back the next day.

    Couple more weeks later, I had the fight with her housemate, and I found out that he is one of her exes. His face looked familiar, so I asked B whether this guy was the same ex who was removing her braids. She told me it was not him. Every few weeks, I would ask her again if her housemate was the ex that she took the towel video in, and she would keep denying it, but his face was too familiar for me to just let go. Then this year January came and she confessed what happened last year January. And this prompted me to ask her again, whether the man in her video, was actually the ex that was living with her. She finally told the truth and admitted it was him.

    Then recently, I asked her what happened on that day and she told me that her female housemate was removing her braids but had to do something, and so the female housemate asked her brother (B’s ex) to finish removing the braids for her, and that is when she took the video. So her explanation from the time I found the video had no implication that she slept with the guy. So both stories align, so there is no evidence that she lied.

    I don’t remember recalling events more favorable to her. I am considering all the factors that are playing in the situation.

    My stupid self was too much in love to see reality then. I wish I could have gone back to the video and rewatched it before she deleted it.

    We do have a counselor here but that is the last thing I want right now. The only place where I get to rant is here. Besides, I have priorities. I find comfort in making music now as it is what I wanted to do more than med, and I find that good enough for now.

    I can’t even confide in the close friend of mine because everyone is human, I can’t just rant to him like that. He most likely wouldn’t want to support me in that manner. That is why I said I have no friends. He is literally all I got and I am pretty sure he is tired of my drama cause I tell him most of the time whenever B and I break up only to get back together.

    I am just disappointed that everyone was right about her. I believed she would be the exception to the stereotype everyone (not my parents) kept describing.

    I will probably come back here several months or years from now, ranting about why I am still single 😂😂. I hope to talk to you again. If you have more things to say, might as well finish it off in this thread because you never know when we might talk again. Thank you for all the advice and support you have given me.

    Paradoxy

    #431598
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Roberta,

    “If you  two were in the habit of mini breakups & arguments & then kiss & make up then there maybe a presumption that you were still in an ongoing relationship with B therefore it was cheating.  If you thought that this was the final breakup then from your point of view, therefore not cheating.” Every time we broke up, we assumed it would be the last. But one week is not enough time to confirm that, especially since it was common for us to have these fights and break up and get back together in a few days. But this last one is a break up that happened early last month, so it’s been a month already so the break up lasted long enough to be considered a permanent break up. So is it still cheating? Based on your definition, probably not.

    Paradoxy

    #431597
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    “So if someone slaps you in the face, but then says “I thought it wasn’t important not to slap you in the face”, and then apologizes, and then keeps slapping you in the face, and apologizing… what would you think of this person?” I did not forgive her for the mistakes she constantly repeated, I forgave her for the mistakes that were different each time. But still I thought some people just deserved more chances to change. Me being blinded by love and hope convinced myself that she would change so I kept forgiving her.

    “She has been slapping you in the face all this time, pretending she is oblivious, she “wasn’t thinking”, she “forgot”, she “didn’t think it was important”…. when in reality, she has been lying to you, manipulating you and making a fool of you.” They were not all slaps, they were different types of hits, like an elbow to the face when she opens the door or something, and the next time she kicks me in the shin while walking. By considering all the circumstances of her mistakes, I ended up being stupid enough to forgive her and give more chances.

    “And your belief (which you adopted from your parents) that women tend to “do stupid things” actually came as a boomerang: because you believed she too is innocent and stupid, rather than manipulative and calculating.” I still see that you did not read what I said about my parents. This belief you stated did not come from my parents but from social media and real life experiences I’ve witnessed. Maybe it was false where u live, but this kind of behavior is quite common here. A belief/stereotype do not form with the influence of one or two persons, but a lot more people.

    I’ve realized my mistake. Making excuses won’t change it. But why me? She had men who had a lot more money, persons who even wanted to marry her and offered her thousands of dollars. So why me? Is it cause I was so easy to manipulate? Why is it such a coincidence that she finally got a stable job around the same time that we broke up? I feel like God gave me this experience to teach me to be careful what I should wish for.

    The break up in Christmas 2022 IS the breakup when the cheating happened. It just extended into January 2023 because my bday is Jan 5, which is why every bday will be misery for me. Yes you got the chronology of the events right, but we reconciled while we were in the country, I took her on a movie date for my birthday and a week later we returned to college. She didn’t seem like she was affected by what happened, but I assumed that she was acting to hide her pain. But the acting was a little too good.

    “Oh and by the way, if you were only broken up for a week, but she kept messaging with the guy for a while afterwards, and even developing feelings for him – then this would be cheating on her part, wouldn’t it? If we want to be super “technical”.” Yes it would be cheating, but the issue is I don’t know the exact dates of her “cheating” and she said she doesn’t remember and since it has been more than a year, even my memory is not that accurate.

    “So if you break up every second week, and she goes to sleep with another man each time you break up, it would be none of your business either? And she would be called loyal and faithful?” By her logic, yes. But I am not falling for it anymore.

    I am just disappointed that I am so used. I feel hollow. Broken. I just found out that she already started flirting with a guy who she knew in high school and he expressed that he has some feelings for her already. And she told him that she is healing from a relationship that ended FEW months ago. The more I talk to you, the more aware I become, the more broken I get. Now everything feels fake. What if every moment we had was manipulated? What if all the happy moments I had were fake? What if I was being used the entire time? The realization is breaking me. I want to cry. I want to release my pain but I have exams and other things to worry about. In a week, I will be traveling to my parents’ place again and I cannot show them my grief cause they will ask questions. My heart feels so empty, yet I still feel so much pain. I do not miss her nor do I want her back, but I am just disappointed that I was being manipulated and used the entire time. I am broken by what I got in return for all the love that I gave her. I wish I had all the answers to my questions. To clear all the doubt from my heart. Wishing I could go back in time and stop myself from being stupid. But it is a learning experience. But what now? I have no one. Not my parents. Not my friends. I am just all alone. Like I was, once before. My suffering is all for me to bear.

    Paradoxy

    #431503
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    Before Christmas 2022, I knew that she had feelings for her ex and that she took a half naked picture with her ex (the difference is that she told me it was not the ex that was living with her at the time but I found out this year that it was the ex that lived with her). All of this happened within the first week. Then in December I found out that the guy living with her was her ex, which she had not told me before.

    Yes these are red flags but I forgave the first two because it happened within the first week and I was still madly in love and she said it was a genuine mistake. She said that on the day she took the picture and video with her ex, she was actually in her towel with her ex’s sister who was removing her braids but when she got busy, the ex’s sister told the ex to remove the braids for her and so she just allowed him to remove her braids for her. Keep in mind that she was naked, but she had the towel wrapped around her body so her naked body is not visible to her ex. So I decided to forgive on the technicality because I just decided to consider it a careless mistake. But she lied to me about who the man was until I found out a year later. She said she lied because she didn’t want me to think I was a rebound. Lots of excuses not gonna lie, but my stupid self forgave her. As for what happened in December, I was upset that she didn’t tell me but I still forgave her because I still considered it a genuine mistake. So that is only 3 red flags that I had considered minor and did not let it affect my view of her cause I was stupid. And she didn’t gaslight me, she just said that she thought the fact that the guy was her ex felt unimportant to her but she admitted her mistake after the guy tried to attack me.

    But after that, she did not make any severe mistakes (other than calling my parents racists and causing a fight over a misunderstanding) that I was aware of until this year. So even though we had a lot of fights, they were not severe enough to be considered red flags by me. The prolonged peace made me assume that she was the best person for me. Besides, keep in mind that this is my very first relationship so I barely knew anything about red flags and green flags.

    “It wasn’t something to be forgiven, especially the part where she arrogantly claimed that you didn’t need to know about the housing arrangement with her” Yes I know it was not supposed to be forgiven but my inexperience caused me to label her mistakes as small mistakes anyone could make. And she did not arrogantly claim that I didn’t need to know, she claimed that the information was unimportant but she admitted that it was her mistake. So her apologies and excuses blinded me from the truth.

    “And I think it’s because you were blinded by the idea of her as your perfect wife, and the physical aspect of your relationship (not just sexual, but also massage, touch, her taking care of your hair, cooking and cleaning for you). I think the idea of the “perfect wife”, which you adopted form your parents: cooking, cleaning, taking care of her husband’s physical needs, might have prevented you from seeing other aspects of her personality.” Tee, I don’t know if you are forgetting but I already stated what I was looking for in a woman and it was not just physical needs. I already told you that my parents taught me that my wife should be my best friend, so it is not just the physical aspect. I just listed the physical things because those were the things I remembered at the time of writing the message. But I would say my inexperience and naiveness played a role in blinding me as even though I noticed the red flags, I just considered them as mistakes that anyone would do and believed that she would never repeat them.

    “What I want to say, Paradoxy, is that she did show you her bad side right from the start. But you didn’t see it. Because you were blinded.” Yes I was blind, but like I said, it was only three red flags, and it happened at the very beginning of the relationship so the prolonged periods of peace made it seem as though everything was perfect. And I DID SEE it, I was just stupid enough to consider the red flags as genuine mistakes. That is why we broke up each time she displayed the red flag, but I kept forgiving her and coming back.

    “It’s not even the fact that she slept with another man that is the most disturbing – but that she is blaming you for it. That’s the most disturbing, in my opinion.” I know, it disturbs me too, but she apologized and told me she was just ranting her feelings in anger and she didn’t mean it, and I forgave her because I have said harsh things when I was angry too.

    “No, technically she didn’t cheat. But blaming you for it is so deeply unfair and emotionally abusive” But she apologized, does that count? Should I forgive her for blaming me just cause she apologized for doing so?

    “Dear Paradoxy, you might want to tell her something like “your behavior is obnoxious, you’ve hurt me so much with your lies and manipulation and blaming me for the things that are your fault, and I’ve had it. I don’t want to argue with you any more. We are done.” We are already broken up, but we still kept in contact since she owes me a lot of stuff but she cut out the last part of me that cared for her when she told me that what happened to her in January was none of my business because it happened right after our break up and that she shouldn’t have even told me because we were not dating when it happened. That felt like a slap to my face cause what if she never told me? What if I never found out what happened in January? I would probably be still dating her, blind to her true nature.

    I may have a right to how I feel, but I just didn’t want to be unfair in the way I treat her cause of my emotions, such as the verbal abuse Anita kept telling me about. But I see things clearer now. I am just very disappointed that she was not the one for me.

    Paradoxy

    #431445
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    In the first week of the relationship after we officially started dating, the red flags involved her dry texting that made me very upset cause I looked forward to texting her everyday and she also initiated multiple break ups in that one week due to reasons such as still having feelings for her ex and my age and other people’s opinion about us dating (her ex’s opinion tbh) etc. But she kept coming back apologizing the next day but that was also the period when she spent time with her ex half naked in the towel, which led to another break up later on. I should have paid attention to those red flags and left but I was blinded by love.

    Yea the “pretend husband” had me hooked cause no real life girl showed interest in me so the feeling of being “wanted” by someone blinded.

    “BTW have you explained to her why your parents might not approve of her? Have you clarified early on what the consequences of dating you are, so that she knows what you expect of her?” Yes I told her why my parents would not approve of her and the consequence of us dating would be that I would have to choose my parents over her when it is time for marriage if my parents reject her and she would have to endure the pain of me leaving her, and she agreed to that. But later on she admitted that she was not thinking straight when she agreed and she didn’t realize the toll it would take on her.

    Even though I initially fell in love with the “idea” of her, I made sure to learn everything about her, including her past, before I chose to go along with the relationship. The issue is that I was blinded by the love, which prevented me from evaluating her past properly and not realizing what type of person she really was. I don’t know if I said this already but she broke up with her first boyfriend just cause she couldn’t buy him a birthday present, even though he took care of her well. But I had ignored it because it happened when she was in high school.

    “In reality, you knew very little about her: she was obviously very beautiful and sexy, she was willing to cook for you (which you find very important in a woman), and she told you that she agreed with the rules of the game (i.e. how a good girlfriend and a good future wife should behave). You thought: bingo!” That is only some of the reasons why I thought she was perfect. She took care of me like a mother would, supporting my studying, helping me deal with the dandrives in my hair (which I didn’t like her doing because I didn’t want to ruin her hands but she was willing to do it, which I thought was amazing since most girls would feel disgusted to help) and she provided me with emotional comfort after dealing with my parents and life and she keeps offering to clean my room (which is something I admired about her but I never let her clean the room because it just felt wrong for me to let her do it as it is my responsibility). She did not seem to be a gold digger or anything as she always offered to help out in paying for things that involved both of us like dates and etc. She even bought me a matching date outfit for us, that I never even got to wear cause of our break up. Now I don’t even know what to do with it because it is not an outfit that you can wear casually and I don’t think it will be respectful if I wear it for a date with another girl in the future. My love language is touch and so I found it very comfortable when hugging/cuddling her especially after she showered which made her body feel cold while my body is warm and the temperature difference also made it more comfortable. I loved the childish way she behaved because it was the good type of annoying and I loved watching her sleep peacefully, making me wish I could spend the rest of my life with her. Overall, I just felt happy and at peace with her despite the annoying arguments we had. The list goes on but they convinced me that she was the right person cause I no longer felt alone and abandoned like I usually felt and being with her got me out of the depressive phase I was going through. Obviously I was blind and naive to reality.

    She already agreed that she would not wear the less revealing outfits, and barely did it too but she tends to have the habit of forgetting things too easily, and my constant forgiveness also played a factor as it indicated that it is okay to go against my wishes even if she agreed. Besides, she has a habit of considering things to be not as important as they actually are, which means she thought it was okay to have  a casual hug with men; she thought all she had to do was not partake in one of those more intimate hugs. And I didn’t mind since the casual hugs are quite rare, but she crossed the line when she went to the resort last month and did the things I told her not to do. She accepted the basic rules of a relationship, but she played along the gray line of the rules where there could take advantage of bending the rules. She still says that what she did in January is not cheating because we had broken up in that one week and that it is none of my business because we were not dating, which goes back to the title of this entire thread. She is taking advantage of the technicality and saying that she didn’t cheat and I don’t know how to argue with the technicality.

    I know that every man would not be bothered by his gf/wife wearing revealing outfits, but even then they have some rules like they can only wear those things when they are around so that they can protect their gf/wife from the disgusting men that exist today or some other rule for wearing revealing outfits. I promise you that most men will feel at least 1% uncomfortable knowing that other men are feasting their eyes on the gf/wife’s body when they wear revealing outfits.

    My gf might have lied to me and slept with another man, but I didn’t know all of that until a year already passed. So for most of the relationship, she never showed me her bad side. I was under the impression that she never lied and she never slept with another man. I just found out this year January that she slept with another man LAST YEAR January. This year January is when the relationship took a turn and everything started to get worse. That is when my imagination broke. But like I said, she uses the technicality that we had broken up during that one week to claim that she didn’t cheat on me.

    “You say she is working, and yet you are giving her a lot of money. I wonder why is that (if you don’t mind sharing)?” She has been constantly switching jobs due to various reasons ever since her manager fired her last year January. The jobs barely pay enough for a person to survive with and her employers all take advantage of her by overworking her while providing poor salary so she ends up quitting the job and I have to pay for her expenses until she gets her next job and she also does trading so we had both agreed to bring in some money to invest in trading, but every time we did, something bad happened like she got severally sick or she had to get her tooth removed or something and we lost a lot of money in trading too. She just got a stable job now so she doesn’t need my money anymore but she still asked for me to come in half way for a trading investment, which I gave her before the break up. But now that we broke up, I want that investment money to be returned but she had to use it for her hospital visit and so she is waiting for her paycheck to pay me back. I don’t see any manipulation/gold digging though because I saw the struggle myself so I know she was not taking advantage of me in that regard. But like I said earlier, if she is actually manipulating me, then she deserves an award for her acting skills cause I am very much convinced of her struggle.

    We have already established that I should leave her, and I have left her already. Now I want clarification on the main question of this entire thread: Is it still considered cheating if she only slept with the man AFTER we broke up? Even though preparations were made WITHOUT her knowledge?

    Paradoxy

    #430739
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tommy,

    Yea I will stop.

    Paradoxy

    #430733
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    You got offended by the facts that I stated? Or you got offended by the way I stated those facts?

    Don’t you think it is disrespectful for you to say that I am a verbal abuser with uncontrolled anger and that the only reason why I do not call my responders names here is cause of some website regulations instead of my actual personality and my patience?

    Don’t you think it is disrespectful for you to be here accusing me of loving to argue and fight when all I did was clarify some facts that you got wrong so that you can formulate your advice better?

    Don’t you think it is disrespectful for you to call me a verbal abuser when I AM THE ONE who came here ADMITTING that I have used disrespectful terms sometimes when I was really really tired of her bs and I admitted that I know that what I said was wrong and that I regret it and that I have been working on fixing it by considerably reducing it? I even told you that this “verbal abuse” of mine is not even that common. Yes I have used disrespectful terms against B but those cases are like once in every 4 months or something despite the number of fights we had. My so-called “verbal abuse” does not happen often enough for me to be considered an abuser. Fine, even if we say that verbal abuse is still verbal abuse, you have to accept that everyone has a limit to their patience, EVEN YOU have a limit to your patience, as proven by how you are behaving RIGHT NOW but I cannot call you hot-tempered for that, cause that would be stupid and unfair. I extremely regret the things I said to B, but please, please, PLEASE, I beg you to understand how extreme the situation became before I ran out of patience and entered the verbal abuse phase.

    Don’t you think it is disrespectful for you to be here giving advice and coming to conclusions by INTENTIONALLY ignoring the things that are said and refusing to allow some facts to be corrected when IT IS MY LIFE that I am describing? A very good example would be when you ignore me when I REPEATED COUNTLESS TIMES that I entered the verbal abusive phase AFTER HOURS/DAYS/WEEKS OF NONSTOP ARGUING. Obviously, just like it is PROVEN by this thread, when you are arguing for over a month about the same issue, you will eventually run out of patience. But do you see me being disrespectful to my responders? Even in your case, all I stated were facts, such as that Tee’s advice was BETTER than yours because she understands the situation BETTER than you. Where is the disrespect in that? Don’t you think I get tired every time you misinterpret something that I said? I asked you to UNDERSTAND the anger that I felt when B was behaving the way she did. But it looks like even if you didn’t understand my anger then, you are now experiencing that same sadness and anger I felt when dealing with her, as shown by you stating “reading the above makes me feel anxious, sad and angry, the many hours of my efforts to help you ending with your efforts to hurt me.” Just like how you are feeling anxious, sad and angry after spending hours trying to “help” me, I felt THE EXACT SAME EMOTIONS when I had to argue with B for prolonged periods of time. See NOW, you are able to understand what lead me to become “verbally abusive” in that moment, even though I regret doing so.

    Don’t you think it is also disrespectful you to judge me based on how I felt FOUR YEARS AGO, despite the fact that I told you that I GREW OUT OF THAT PHASE? It is only coming back NOW as a result of the pain caused by the break up.

    I can list more things that I said which YOU INTENTIONALLY IGNORED but you keep bringing it back like I didn’t already just explain it to you.

    Don’t you think it is disrespectful for you to assume that I am not taking responsibility for my mistake just cause I asked you to clarify what you are trying to say about my so-called “verbal abuse”?  I quote myself saying “So basically, you are saying that I am indeed verbally abusive. But I want to understand, is it still verbally abusive if the things that are said are actually true?” That was a QUESTION, which shows that I GENUINELY WANTED TO UNDERSTAND what you were trying to say. And you responded by saying “You didn’t yet take responsibility for verbally abusing her, you’ve spoken from both sides of your mouth in this regard: saying that you were abusive and then saying that if she is a brick wall, then calling her a brick wall is not abusive.” It is very obvious here that you clearly misunderstood what I said. You assumed that I was making a CLAIM that calling her a brick wall is not abusive, when all I did was ask you a QUESTION.

    Please, Anita or anyone, please tell me if I am the one misunderstanding here. I am more than willing to learn from my mistakes as all I have is respect for you Anita. Even to the point where I kept apologizing to you Anita for sounding like a “brat”. I do appreciate your help, all I am saying is that Tee’s help was more beneficial for me because she was able to understand the situation better than you and she was able to point out things that I had not thought of. I don’t mind receiving a motherly hug from you, but how can you expect me to receive a sympathetic hug from someone who doesn’t even sympathize with what I am going through? I hope you realize that I meant no disrespect. I know you do not want to keep talking to me, but I will still look forward to your response Anita as I see you as a caring individual with more wisdom than me, but just like how I respect you, I want you to respect me too and not misinterpret the things that I have said.

    Paradoxy

     

     

    #430692
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tommy,

    I know Tommy, I have already broken up with her, I am just working on the process of moving on.

    Paradoxy

    #430691
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Brick wall is not saying that the person is dumb, it’s saying that the person refuses to listen. It feels like I am talking to a wall. And even if the person wants to love and respect to return, you have to also realize that all this namecalling only occurred at the VERY EDGE of my patience, which would be hours or days or even weeks of continuous arguing over the same thing. Everyone has a limit to their patience, no matter how much they love the person.

    “She shouldn’t listen to anything you say for as long as what you say to her includes verbal abuse from time to time.” So it is okay for her to be disrespectful to me through her actions but it is not okay for me to respond with verbal disrespect AFTER HOURS/DAYS/WEEKS of continuous arguing?

    “I don’t think that you listened to my advice in this 5- page thread, not yet.” You just proved my point lol. Even if you don’t call me a brick wall, you already feel that I haven’t listened to your advice. That is what I am trying to show you.

    “You didn’t yet take responsibility for verbally abusing her, you’ve spoken from both sides of your mouth in this regard: saying that you were abusive and then saying that if she is a brick wall, then calling her a brick wall is not abusive.” I was ASKING you if calling her a brick wall is still considered abusive if she behaves like a brick wall. I was not making a claim. I was asking because I was under the impression that though I know my actions appear verbally abusive, I assumed it would be justified cause of what she was doing. Asking for clarification does not mean I am not taking responsibility for my actions.

    “If I called my partner names, dumb, a brick wall, etc., and repeatedly, if I was arrogant, dismissive and abusive to him, I wouldn’t expect him to be loyal to me.” Clearly you are not reading what I wrote. I said I only became verbally abusive after HOURS/DAYS/WEEKS of constantly arguing to the point of reaching the edge of my patience. That means the verbal abuse is not something I do all the time. I also said that I had CONSIDERABLY REDUCED how verbally abusive I was after she told me that she didn’t like it. But did she change her ways despite telling her I didn’t like it? And most of the fighting and verbal abuse started AFTER SHE CHEATED. So your statement above is not appropriate for the situation.

    “Uncontrolled anger is behind much of interpersonal abuse and crime, crimes of passion, it’s called.” My anger has always been controlled, that is why this relationship lasted 1.5 years because I WAS THE ONE FORGIVING. If I had uncontrolled anger, she would have left a long time ago. And like I said before, the only time when I became verbally abusive is after HOURS/WEEKS/DAYS after CONTINUOUS FIGHTING. If that doesn’t show you how patient I am, then idk what will. I’ve been the one staying calm trying to negotiate with her while she continued to blame me and etc for the way she was feeling and for how she behaved. My energy is being drained because it is being used up in being patient, I am using up my energy as I control my anger.

    “The second part of this quote is one of the times that you have taken an exception to speaking the truth.” So you think I have not been pouring out love to her. All I am going to say is this, from the third person’s perspective, you won’t be able to see the things I have done, my attempts at fixing myself for her, being able to understand how she feels and etc. All I know is that I did my best, and my love for her was greater than the love she had for me.

    “This is an accusation some abusive people make on a regular basis, accusing the abused of paying too much/ disproportional attention to the abuse. It’s a false accusation.” Explain to me how I am such a horrible abuser just cause I became verbally abusive at the end of my patience which occurred HOURS/DAYS/WEEKS after CONTINUOUS FIGHTING. I told you what terms I used in my “verbal abuse” I did not tell you how often this “verbal abuse” happened. Cause if it was as often as you describe it to be, my “verbal abuse” would be the number one reason why B would cheat on me or even want to leave. In reality, my so-called “verbal abuse” is one of the smallest factors that play into how she behaves and she has already admitted that.

    “What I see in your past (quotes right above) is severe verbal abuse perpetrated on you by your parents, abuse severe enough for a neighbor to notice and threaten to call social services. I see you minimizing their abuse. I see you suppressing your anger at your parents and expressing it at yourself.. and at a woman in a movie, enjoying the portrayal of her violent death.” How I felt 4 years ago does not define me now, because that was a phase of extreme depression and I have gotten out of that phase especially since I am no longer with my parents and it is only coming back now as a result of the break up. So do not let my past deceive you or your judgement.

    “The hate predated you meeting B, she did not create your hate.” Anita, I already told you that I do not redirect my hate to other people. I do not do that because I know what it feels like to have anger/hate redirected to me. I am literally repeating myself here.

    I do not call my responders names because LIKE I STATED BEFORE, I have a lot of patience and understanding, which you have still failed to realize despite how long we have been having this conversation. The very fact that I have not called you names is proof enough that you are wrong about assuming that I have uncontrolled anger and that I am verbally abusive. I argue because you are not getting the facts accurate, which makes your response not 100% correct regarding my situation. I have already thought out all of the things you have said and I know it will work in most situations but not in mine specifically. EVEN THEN, I am learning as I converse with you, which is why I asked you questions to clarify what you are saying about me being verbally abusive. In each of the arguments, I do not exactly say that you are completely wrong about what you are saying, I allow the evidence to prove it for you.

    Look at the conversations that Tee and I have versus the conversations that you and I have, do you see the drastic difference between conversations with her versus you? Tee was able to understand the situation better than you could and show me exactly where the issues lie whereas you have not because you have not factored in the extra details that I stated to you in each of the arguments, such as the fact that my so-called verbal abuse only occurred after a fight has been going on for a LONG PERIOD OF TIME, which is evidence for how much patience I have, which also proves that this so-called verbal abuse is NOT something that happens all the time. Despite how much I appear to be arguing with Tee, it is more evident that I am learning more from the things she said compared to things you have said as she is able to understand the situation better than you.

    No disrespect but I don’t think I want a hug from someone who doesn’t even understand why they are even hugging.

    Paradoxy

     

    #430681
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tommy,

    I came here with all these lengthy posts because I am searching for an excuse to forgive her and take her back because my brain is already aware that I should leave but my heart still loves her. I do not hate her but I hate what she has done. I just wanted to hold on to hope that there was some chance of fixing this issue.

    Paradoxy

    #430679
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    Even if you are referring to the hurt that predates the relationship, she said it herself that the hurt that made her prostitute herself was my parents’ opinion and the break up itself. Cause there were other situations where she could have prostituted herself but she didn’t because she knows it is wrong and she was not hurting in those periods. Such as when her own manager wanted her to sleep with him to save her job, she refused to do it because she was emotionally healthy then and she knew it was wrong.

    In the end, all the hurt that she has endured all her life factored into her decision to prostitute herself but it was our break up and what my parents said that put her in a weak, mentally unstable position where she could not think straight nor form proper decisions. That is how I understand it. Cause she could have prostituted herself in other situations but she didn’t.

    She said that I ruined her self-esteem, and that is why she wants validation from me. She specifically said that. Despite how many times I clarified the situation, it still offends her because she is too blinded by the emotion to understand my clarification.

    You are right about everything else that you said about her. But how do I fix that? Even therapy doesn’t gurantee 100% chance at fixing that kind of behavior, not to mention how expensive it would be by the time she is healed.

    She also told me when she confessed her cheating that most of the fights that she caused last year were excuses to leave me cause of her internal conflict so that she doesn’t have to deal with the guilt of proving my parents right. But the fact that she still loves me makes her want to get back together with me, and my dumbass self keeps forgiving her too.

    Even if only she can help herself, wasn’t there anything I could have done to help her in the process of healing?

    I just thought that if she was craving attention from men, then having all my attention would be good enough. If she wanted the feeling of being loved and cared for, I thought I could provide that feeling. I thought I could make her feel worthy and validated, but I was not aware that she was still holding on to things that I had already explained and corrected.

    I know that calling her names added fuel to the fire, but I didn’t expect educating her to behave properly would also act as fuel.

    “You don’t understand her, Paradoxy. She is not stupid or foolish.” I already stated that I said stupid because I could not think of any other term to describe her behavior. I am not saying that she is actually stupid. And I said I understand her because I am able to accurately describe how she is feeling. There are countless arguments where she told me that I don’t understand her, and then I proceed to describe exactly how she is feeling, to which she admits that my description is correct. So do I still not understand her? I was already aware of a degree of the internal conflict because she already told me that she was looking for excuses to leave me but also wanted to be with me. I was just naive enough to believe I could be the solution to her internal conflict.

    I think I am actually insane because insanity is when you do the same thing and expect a different outcome, and by going through this same cycle a 100 times, maybe I have gone insane in the end.

    I told her at the very beginning of our relationship how clingy I am and how attached I become to the person I love the most. I guess it came back to bite me in the ass. Should have seen the red flags when she was dry and cold and behaving weird in the first couple days of our relationship. Everyone told me not to date her when I showed them what she was doing but my stupid self continued to love her.

    We just had another two day argument yesterday where she made false accusations again regarding the same things we have already discussed and it hit my ego cause of how she is incorrectly describing what happened. Eventually I corrected her but it was still another 2 day argument that still drained me. I wish I could just block her or something but she still has my belongings such as laptop, mouse and a lot of money which she cannot return as she is not financially stable right now and her work requires her to have my laptop as she cannot afford her own. I really hoped that she would be the person I would end up marrying. Now all the dreams I had with her are crushed.

    Paradoxy

    #430675
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Where did you see me indicating that I love to hate her? If she was as perfect as can be, there would not be any hate to direct in the first place.

    Paradoxy.

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