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October 24, 2022 at 2:02 pm in reply to: Question Are we born with a Purpose or do we create our own? #408995PeterParticipant
Are we born with purpose or do we create it?
Perhaps its a false choice as it is dependent on how one relates and or defines the notion of purpose.
Is it viewed with perspective of observing ones life from the outside and or from within? Is it within the scope of ‘all time’ and or a moment of time? Is it a objective and or subjective experience? It it a something we measure and or others measure? Should it be measured at all?It is said all things happen for a reason. Some associate that statement with purpose and fate. We assume the saying means something but does it? We can’t create something from nothing so yes their was a moment that came before this moment and influenced it. Is that what we mean when we say things happen for a reason?
Ego Conciseness is linear, cause and effect but Life isn’t, In life everything is connected. It is only in measurement that things are separated. But measurement is man defined and doesn’t exist in Life. It is only in hindsight, in memory, (karma) that we string together events and say look thier is a reason, and look here, here is meaning. Of all the information that exits in a moment of time, however we measure that, we base our findings on very little.
PeterParticipantwould not let me edit the bad
What is the point of prayer and meditation?
Old woman: To bring you closer to the Great Mystery.
So I can understand it?
Old: woman: No. So you can participate in it.
Richard WagamesePeterParticipantso many people here will find their faith in buddha
It is my understanding that Buddhahood is a state of becoming, a state of consciousness. Gautama becomes Buddha when he awakened. When Gautama became Buddha he had to face the problem of teaching what could not be taught. He did not want his followers to blindly accept his teaching but to experience them, find the truth. the path, for themselves.
Fear is to Courage as Doubt is to Faith. The opposite of faith is not doubt but certainty.
Buddhism finds meaning by ending suffering. Stoicism finds meaning by accepting suffering.
I don’t believe that is a accurate statement about Buddhism. For a Buddhist the question of meaning is unskillful, the notion of ‘finding meaning’ itself a source of suffering. The question of meaning being pointless when you are the answer. Nirvana, the end of suffering, is a state that Transends the opposites/duality (measuring) and thus bliss. (end to measuring which we are really, really, really bad at)
no matter what you practice, we all believe we are here to promote the common good, through improving ourselves and leaving the world a better place
I would agree. The difficulty of course is the very notion/awareness of THE ‘Good’ and ‘Better’. A Buddhist might say that it is in the defining, attaching, measuring and judging that we create suffering. How to avoid the trap of measuring (dualism – ego consciousness) and attachment and remain fully engaged with Life as it is. How to avoid the ‘why bother?’ – or ‘suicide’ as Camus might say) Thus the birth of all philosophy and wisdom traditions.
What is the point of prayer and meditation?
Old woman: To bring you closer to the Great Mystery.
So I can understand it?
Old: woman: No. So you can participate in it.
– Richard Wagamese
PeterParticipantFeels like Time is passing too fast
“Time is what prevents everything from happening at once.” – Einstein
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.” – EinsteinThis is only aside and likely not helpful. Our experience of time colors our world but what is it.
We tend to experience time objectively – ego consciousness, linear – a something that prevents everything from happening at once.Subjectively, the past, present and future can happen all at once. Experience filtered through our past, what we think we know, and our hopes/fear for the future. We measure and compare the present moment based on the past and hopes/fears of what might happen next.
To say then that Time is passing to fast begs the question, where are you? Time cannot be separated from space. Are you accurately measuring your objective experience of time or are you measuring time as feeling and or expectation.
Its good to have goals and to work towards them which may include a time line. But if your going to measure out a time line its best to be be clear about them. To take ownership of it or you will easily slide into the subjective experience of time, a feeling, of shoulds, if only , what if’s, that we usually don’t take the time to answer. A exercise that serves no purpose other then making us feel as if we are failing.PeterParticipantI was wondering why sometimes it happens just like that without any effort, anyone has any experience on how to reach and maintain such a state?
Ah to be the still point that is also dancing.
Its a paradox. The moment we ask the question we are out of the moment. The moment we realize were in the experience we are tossed out of it. The moment we try is the moment we fail.
Their is not try only be. A exercise of Will that is a letting go of Will, a surrender of expectations, desire, thought.
September 16, 2022 at 2:00 pm in reply to: Question Are we born with a Purpose or do we create our own? #407027PeterParticipantQuestion Are we born with a Purpose or do we create our own?
My 2 cents for what its worth. Yes but its not what you might think.
Born you are the answer to the question, you are purpose, every breathe you take, every move you make, purpose.As Campbell noted Life does not give you meaning or purpose you give meaning to Life
July 7, 2022 at 6:09 am in reply to: Does anyone have experience overcoming habitual thoughts of suicidal ideation? #403558PeterParticipantThanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts Helcat
PeterParticipantDear Berta
Which practices you engaged with?
Before one practices, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse into the truth, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters.
We are not meant to live on top of mountains. Thus all spiritual experience and practice must incorporate the return. The return to Life as it is. In my opinion that is something most traditions don’t do well. My Experience with Buddhism is that the challenge of the return involves the practice of detachment. Healthy detachment, healthy boundaries where one accepts things as they all while remaining fully engaged in life .
From your post it sounds like you have fallen into the trap of Indifference. Its a fine line between detachment and Indifference. One of my observations with the Buddhist practice is it often involves a loss of energy to engage. The unskillful detachment from ego, goals, relationships, identity, hope… leading to indifference. If I am not my ego, my experiences, my emotions, my memory why engage, what’s the point = loss of energy.
Sitting by a calm lake in meditation and or contemplation nothing touches us and we think what bliss. Then life interrupts, we need to eat, relive ourselves, work, the stuff of life, everything touches us. The goal of the practice is to take the experience of the lake with us as we engage fully in the stuff.
We return from the mountain/lake and see for the first time. Nothing has changed, everything has changed.
PeterParticipantI appreciated your thoughts and humor, Tommy.
I’ve often wondered about why the Buddha is most often shown as laughing and I think one of the reasons is that when you laugh you are letting go, letting flow. Thus one may have experienced laughing so hard you peed yourself, a little. 🙂
PeterParticipantI have smacked myself many times but I only get dizzy.
🙂 that sounds like Zen to me. Begs the question what is enlightenment and how we would notice when a moment of enlightenment was achieved?
My observation is that its kind of like happiness the moment one thinks… ah their it is I have it… it disappears. Enlightenment like trying to grasp and hold on to air with ones hands. The problematic word in that sentence being ‘grasp’ as it tends to be attached to the word ‘I’. In Zen thier is no I so no-thing to do the grasping.
When I picture the stone being thrown at the student (or slap) in that moment thier is the stone and body labeled student. The body spontaneously ducks. No thoughts like… Why did master throw the stone, The stone is a illusion, the body is a illusion, what does this mean, why, why me, not fair, vengeance, anger, fear… If such thoughts did arise the student is going to get hit and its going to hurt.
The body/mind/spirit, labeled student, “knows” this and engaging fully in the moment as it is moves. The rock flies past. A moment of enlightenment. A moment not measurement in time or space and so infinite -“Some infinities are bigger than other infinities” 🙂 (The Body and rock are not illusions the ‘student’ is)
In Zen a act of Free Will is the act of letting Will go, (In my opinion the only act of free will possible) , Doing by not doing. A state of being where one is fully Engaged in Life as it is and at the same moment fully Detached. I’m reminded of those infomercials selling the some slow cooker or something. ‘Set it and Forget it.
My experience of Zen is that it seems to be a practice intended to ‘break’ the mind. Break the habitual thinking, thoughts, memory’s that we believe/feel is a I. One returns from where one started and ‘sees’ it for the first time (the mountain becomes a mountain) We work for that which no work is required (doing by not doing) “You” are/were always buddha
Thanks for humoring me letting me play 🙂
PeterParticipantI think your answers were pretty good and your experience with Zen Koan’s seems to be on point. You arrive where you start 🙂
Koan’s… one master answers yes the other no and both are correct and wrong… has lead to made many a Student suffering. Perhaps that is the point or intent as it is the tension between seeming opposites that leads to consciousness as Koan’s push/pull a student to transcend duality/thought… begging the question if one transcends duality is one still conscious??? Yes… No… Mu 🙂
I read a story about a student that asked a master ‘What is Zen’ the Master throws a stone at the student, and the student spontaneously ducks and and awakens.
LOL I forgot my point…. their is a reason the buddha is always laughing
PeterParticipantHi Leaagain
How did you overcome learned traits from childhood trauma?
By making them conscious and realizing at a deep level that you are not your memories, you are not your past – you have memories, you have a past. By making them conscious, perhaps with help from a therapist you take ownership of what belongs to you and what doesn’t. The aim is to develop healthy boundaries that being healthy will aid in the developing or relationships with your self and others.
Relationships are crucibles in which we discover ourselves. You don’t need to be in relationship to discover yourselves but nothing like a relationship to push/pull a person into the process.
A purpose of relationship is to heal the past. What I mean is that in relationship your ‘ghosts’ of the past are going to come out to play with your friend and or partners ‘ghosts’ . Thus that need to be conscious of them, shine a light on them. Healthy boundaries will help work through those times when a person in relationship is triggered by the past. A healthy relationship can be the best place to coming to terms with our past hurts, shadow, and projections (Projections, shadows, hurts… usually all mixed up together)
Do you risk relationship, is it worth it?
That is something only you can answer. As humans we are really good at justifying the answer to such questions. However I might argue that if your answer is all justifications your probably not being honest with what you really want. (Justifications tend not to make healthy boundaries as the tend to lock away all possibility. )
My advice for what its worth. Be Brave, do the work in coming to terms with your past/memory (you are not your memories) know your boundaries and see what might show up.
Its said Only Love can break a heart. That I believe is a truth if a ironic one.
Yet a broken heart is a open heart and oh what that might a open heart experience. Scary I know… but scary can be fun?PeterParticipantHi Helcat
I grew up in a religious cult while being abused so for a long time I was angry at God. I blamed him for the bad things that happened. I prayed for him to save me and I thought he didn’t answer
I hope I didn’t trigger past hurts with my use of the word G_d
I grew up in a very religious community as well thought not a cult. My early experience of God was as a ‘being’ constantly judging the bad and the good. Follow the rules = good, disobey = bad. Most prayer was of the petition type — Please help me, let this happen, don’t let that happen… Of course such a God answered all prayers just mostly with the silence of a No. Growing up I believe everything about me was wrong – life was not happening as I prayed it would therefore I was being punished which meant I was bad and not following the rules as I ought, even if it thought I was.
Yeah fun times.
Early on we talked about how in one journey always seems to be a returning home to see it for the first time. I know that to be true. No matter how far I tried to leave those early years behind they always showed up and so I had to come to terms with my experience. Just hearing the word could send me into depression and I found I was interpreting any new spiritual language through my language of birth. Thus I cannot avoid the word God
Even though I got to a place where God was no longer like Santa Clause rewarding the good and punishing the bad I wasn’t able to throw away the word God. I needed a more skillful way to relate to it.
You might notice that I often type the word God as G_d the intent being to indicate that the word is as a symbol that points past to self to a something, a experience, that is no-thing and at the same all-things. G_d is also the experience of connection to everything – the drop in the ocean that at the same time contains the ocean. It is the experience when language drops away, when duality drops away (language like ego consciousness is dualistic by nature) and we are, G_d is, that stillness that is dancing…. ( Ohm – the sound of every word spoken and will be spoken, all-things – no-thing… have you noticed the silence that from which Ohm ends and starts….)
What am I saying… I had to let go of my pavlovian reaction to the word God in order to begging to embrace what I was learning and so heal the past. If at the at the end of all our exploring we arrive where we started… it was work that needed to be done.
Today even my relationship to prayer has changed. I prefer silent prayer, centering prayer…kind of like meditation/contemplation.. (No supernatural Being and pleading involved). Even the Lords Prayer has changed for me. Experienced as symbolic language its a prayer about centering oneself for the day. As above so below – G_ds will be done, As below so above – we are forgiven as we forgive (We are bigger then big and smaller then small, we are influenced by forces beyond our reckoning and we also influence – we participate in Life. Who we are matters) Thus we ask only for our daily needs and return to silence.
I hope if haven’t confused the matter more. The above the long winded way of me explaining that when I use a word like God I do not intent it as you experienced it growing up.
PeterParticipant@Helcat
I’ve never tried marijuana but read a pit on the therapeutic potential of some psychedelics under controlled conditions. but not sure I’m brave enough. My experience with time is that at a subjective and dream level the past, present and future occur together in the same moment. While our objective experience of time is linear. As you say the mind – ego consciousness – needs to make sense of what happens.I feel the same way. You can be hurt, angry and still love.
Interesting as I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. When someone says God is Love what are they saying? to be it begs the question what is Love – if G_d is mystery and unknowing what does such a statement say about our expectation of Love. I suspect when people use the word love they only associate the positive feelings and experiences with the word. How can a negative experience be love?
My thoughts for what they are worth.
I’m going to disagree and say Love, at its highest level IS, and as such beyond conditions – G_d is Love – Life is Love – all of IT the joys, wonders and horrors is Love. Love at such a level is beyond language and dualist thinking (problem of opposites) Perhaps only Buddhas and Saints 🙂At the personal level when people hear unconditional love I wonder if they are thinking unconditional allowing which is not love.
Love as experienced unconditionally involves having healthy boundaries. A paradox, or perhaps not. To be loved by another to be seen, to be heard, to matter who we are, what we do , what we say must matter and that requires boundaries of accountability, responsibility which create experiences of meaning, purpose…
The experience of being loved and loving has conditions, boundaries. While LOVE is unconditional. One can, as you noted, Love while, angry, disappointed, hurt, fearful, happy, joyful… and even when, especially when, holding others and oneself accountable.
I wonder if that makes sense. words can be so troublesome.
PeterParticipantHi Helcat
Enjoying your thoughts
Now I wonder if that is true. I have had my own thoughts over the years and seen how people are linked and shape each other.
I’ve been playing with this thought as well. In some of the resent reading their is a suggestion that its not only the people we meet that we are linked to but at some level it is everyone. A step further that at a cellular / atomic level we are linked to everything from the beginning. We are both the drop in the ocean and at the same time the ocean
All of this linked to the notion of Karma as a natural reality. Karma not the misunderstood as justice or having to do with reward and punishment. The idea is that Karma are the lenses through which we see the world. (we see the world as we are not as it is). From that perspective Karma and memory, cellular memory to mental memories, conscious and unconscious are interconnected. The suggestion was that Karma is ‘memory’ which is a interesting thought.
The past is memory and the future ‘imagination memory’ the goal then would be to create space from the past and future (memory – karma) and be spontaneously engaged in the present avoiding the creation of unskillful karma. In this way I guess we clean our lens
Anyway I forgot my point. My thought was that the two notions – being connected to everything and Karma, how that is experienced is connected.
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