Dear Helcat,

No worries at all, I just wanted to make sure you saw the response to your message 🙂 I am sorry for what you are going through and please use your energy for your family right now and don’t feel pressure to get back here quickly. Take care of yourself and I hope to hear from you when you return,

Sending my best to you,

Seaturtle

Anita,

Ever since I responded a couple hours ago I can’t shake this pit in my stomach of breaking up with my partner. If he will never truly see me then I need to leave. But I can sense the pain of separating and it scares and pains me deeply. He has become by home.

Dear Anita,

“– he may be taking on the role of a therapist with you, as he has dome with his father (based on his words in regard t his father), but he is a bad “therapist” if he refers to your sincere reasoning as excuses. Can you give me 1-2 examples of what you said that he referred to as an excuses? “

Yes, a therapist in a way of I am very open with him and he listens, but he doesn’t give advice really, he’s just a listening ear that may make him feel dumped on when I truly am trying to explain who I am to him. For example, in the tickling scenario I described before that triggered me from being tickled and pinched by older brothers (uncles close in age). It caused me to back away from cuddling as we watched a tv show, and this “withholding of affection” affected him and he expressed that he did not like that, to which I apologized for, then explained why I pulled away and he thought it was an excuse and negated the apology.

There are other examples that aren’t surfacing my memory right now, but the essence of them is that my trigger response hurts him, and I explain why it happened and sometimes he has empathy for me and is understanding, but other times says they are excuses for my behavior. My behavior is withdrawing, this is not easy for me to say but he has called my trigger responses emotionally abusive to him, because if he doesn’t say the right thing to ease my mind I am cold and blame him. When he told me this it made me take a hard look at myself and definitely made me want to understand why my responses were so intense. This was about 4 months ago, I was also under the influence of alcohol, which I learned from that situation I cannot have if triggered because it exaggerates my coldness, blaming and honestly can bring this sassiness out that he does not like. Basically I would feel and tell him exactly what he could have done to prevent my pain (trigger), at the time I didn’t yet realize where this pain was coming from at all,  and I genuinely thought it was his fault. We have talked alot about this and this is also why I wanted to move out so I would stop taking it out on him. It is harder for me to deal with when the same thing happens again, like I tell him something that bothers me like him being late or not communicating with me, but he will continue to obliviously do it and I would get upset with him and ask why he continues to do it and he just didn’t think what he did deserved that response.

“– the dissociated/ removed-from-awareness feelings in regard to your father need to be brought back to awareness, to one extent or another, so to undo the grasp these feelings have on your boyfriend, so to speak.”

Does this involve confronting my father? I still feel those feelings towards my dad sometimes, but only when I re-play what has happened, would journaling (more) about my experiences with my dad help to release them? Often I feel when I talk or think about them it brings me down, but maybe it is helping, because I do still have strong feelings there under the surface if I tap into them.

“Fast forward in the relationship.. it’s still not like he knows who he was- and still is- late for.”

I could see this being true. Sometimes he reminds me of my dad in the way that it will feel like he does know sometimes, but then other times there’s like a wall and he doesn’t actually know anymore. This is when I feel unseen and I get this weird stranger alert in my brain and suddenly feel he is SO far away from me.

“Teflon mindset”

I love this, it is so accurate I have seen this in many people.

“This is the difference between the two of you: you let things in, you let them stick enough to analyze them, so to understand better.”

Yes exactly, and we don’t understand this about eachother. To me, this is what you need to do to grow and learn. I also appreciate feeling things deeply to which he does not understand the point. He accepts this about me, and tells me that he loves how much of a feeler I am, but when its a negative feeling I am lingering on to think about he gets exhausted and will want to move on so quickly. He lets go of things quite fast, and doesn’t care to think about the why, usually. I love our conversations about the “why,” but he is so focused on work and other stress that he is often unable to go there with me mentally.

“TM does not want to understand itself; any opportunity to understand (himself or you)- if it feels distressing to him- will slide off him like oil slides off Teflon.” -Yup, so true, and this is what reminds me of my dad, but N can go in and out of it, but majorly he is Teflon unfortunately and I hold hope that I can help him increase his tolerance to what he repels…

– your father didn’t see you and (not or) your boyfriend doesn’t see you, not beyond the superficial, like you suspect.

-So than am I wasting my time pursuing a romantic relationship with him?

“after me sharing my trigger response after the ticking he asked me ‘why don’t I have triggers like you do, do I have no trauma?’“- he is blaming you for having triggers, stating that he has trauma too, but he has no triggers (being that they slide off, I say), so there is something wrong (faulty, blameworthy) about you, is the message, isn’t it?

– It could be, in that moment I felt sorry for him that he wasn’t in tune enough to recognize his triggers because everyone has them, but his trigger responses, if he has any is to stay silent, so they are very hard for me to detect. Sometimes he is quiet with 0 thoughts, I think this is a male thing? It is hard to tell why he is silent and IF he is bothered.

“this IS the experience of living with a TM.. unless you are equally a TM yourself. and therefore comfortable with unfamiliarity.. having adjusted well to being UNSEEN”

-This hits me hard because OFTEN, growing up with my dad and now with N I feel this need to be more like a TF. He calls his TF behavior “stoicism.” and he does make TF behavior look more relaxing, like he often just tells me to relax, which sometimes I wonder if that is what I need to do, sometimes it is but other times I do want to talk about the why of something.

“in your shoes, hearing this, I would feel guilty about sharing with him anything that would make him feel badly.”

-It does. But since the beginning of our relationship (because, and what keeps me with him) I felt this feeling that he would be in my life for a while, his presence was soothing and he was so kind to everyone, and a hard worker with good intentions, he gives back to the community and people close to him as much as he can, and since I felt he could possibly be my person I dedicated myself to being transparent. I lived by the idea that if I am my truest and most honest self than the people that stick around are true and the ones who leave were not meant for me. I didn’t want something to come as a surprise later on and quite honestly just desperately wanted to be seen by him, and to make sure I was accepted for exactly who I was.

On your last two paragraphs.

I don’t want a TF for myself. If I was a friend to myself I would tell me that I would thrive with a person who was able to see me. But, I love this TF and he is such a close friend to me and honestly I think we help each other learn a lot about each other, hence where I am now. How do I keep this friend and find a non-TF that I so desperately wish to be seen by. Are all men this way, or do I just find them because, as they say, we date our parents… I will say N seems more aware than by dad though, he feels so sorry for my sisters and brother who he can see not being seen by my dad. Perhaps N isn’t all TF? there are moments he sure does seem to see behind peoples action. It is like I want N to be my person so badly, because I love him and he is my home and safe place right now, and he has so many good qualities, none that overcome not seeing me, but he’s just so pure and the dating world out there scares the hell out of me, so much ingenuity. Can a TF learn to me? Or will he always be alone in that disconnected world? Have I wasted all this time of my youth in this relationship? I would hate to permanently lose him.

Seaturtle

I had another thought/question, Since my partners dad emotionally dumped on him and he felt like his therapist, is this how my partner sees me when I am trying to communicate so that he can understand me? Cause it is how I feel sometimes when I try to express to him why I reacted a certain way, what the trauma behind it was, he will call these excuses which just lead to feeling further unseen and invalidated. If this is what is happening, can i help him to see this somehow?

Helcat,

” Do you think a simple apology might work for you? For example, “Sorry for being late, I know it’s a trigger for you. I don’t ever want to make you feel unseen.””

Yes. When the apology feels true, then it does release the trigger. If he used this phrasing it would be even better, the problem is often his “apologizing” comes across fake. I am not sure if I am reading it correctly but I am pretty confident in my ability to read these things. Like sometimes he will apologize but I feel he is just saying it to just end the conversation and move on, other times his apologies are “I’m sorry but…” and that “but” just negates it all for me and I stop hearing what he’s saying. Honestly a false apology hasn’t happened in a while, I think/hope he realizes they are ineffective. I have learned he can also be passive aggressive but doesn’t know he’s doing it when I confront him, he makes me feel stupid for even thinking it could have been passive aggressive and this bothers me. It concerns me he does not see that his “jokes” are passive aggressive and pretty obvious to me. Another reason I know they are not just jokes is because when we are having a consistently good time he doesn’t “joke” around.

The difficulty with apologising is that some men hate it. My husband did and felt like an apology meant that he had to mean that he’d done something wrong. Instead of simply being a way to validate emotions. Women are prepped by society to apologise in a variety of different scenarios and understand that it’s largely about validation and manners. I had to talk to him and explain that it’s not that he was doing something wrong. It’s just showing that he cared and empathised with how I felt.

I want to straight up just read this to him because it is so true. He does struggle to apologize and all I really want is just recognition of how it could have been harmful to me.

“To a lot of people, taking a break just means breaking up. So I can understand why he feels scared by this idea. Perhaps you could take a break without actively using that term. What would taking a break look like to you?”

These are good questions. While living together I felt the need for a break quite heavily, but since moving out, it is sort of a break in itself. I see him about 2-3 days a week instead of 24/7, he is not a big texter or any social media communication so we have full days without talking which I think is what I need because before our lives were so intertwined that everything I did was around him. What I did for food that day was a communication with him, or how we relaxed at the end of the day, or even when I would come home/leave or even shower and wash my hair! So now I can breathe a bit more and just make decisions for only myself, so that I don’t forget my needs and my self care, which I often gave up if he was home. I hope these things don’t make us a bad match, and i hope I can heal in this semi-break period and then be able to relax with him again living together.

“I think that having my trauma invalidated, which is a big part of my life would make me feel unseen too. What do you think?”

*this paragraph is sad, I am not sure how else to describe it, so read when you have your mental armor on, I don’t want to harm your mood.

Yes I believe that having trauma invalidated is even another form of trauma, because I feel triggered when I feel invalidated in certain ways, let alone invalidated trauma, it can be gut wrenching depending on how close that person is to you. My trauma has been very invalidated, my dad was one of those types who just believed anxiety made you weak and you could power through anything with a 5 am workout, egg whites and money. Rabbit trail: My brother is not mentally well, he is 2 1/2 years younger than me, actually turns 22 tomorrow wow. Anyways he was in no way a jock growing up, he hated the sports my dad would try to bribe him to play, my dad has no relationship with him he doesn’t understand him at all. My brother is sensitive, musical, inventive, and intelligent, but these positive traits about him shut down through the divorce, maybe earlier. Unseen fully by my dad, even more than I am, he developed a video game addiction, and gambling as well now. He has very low self esteem and was diagnosed with manic depression and prescribed in 2020. He would have outburst of anger to my mom and sisters, so much so they no longer felt safe with him around and he is now living at my grandparents…the place my dad was raised, so I do not think it is helping him. Side note my sister, two years younger than him, was also rejected by my dad. She is a strong woman, I am naturally softer, she did not fit the mold of what my dad thought made a girl a girl, she was constantly in trouble as a kid, spanked too much and I also would cry hearing it as a kid because my dad would get angry with her, she was pretty devious she would have lots of tantrums and hated authority. Anyways come her 18th birthday she moved to another state to live with my Aunt and her family, they are very religious (Christian) they are vegan and just very kind people who pretty much adopted her after she spent the last 8 summers there as well. My youngest sister is the only one still home and she’s an amazing dancer and my dad still to this day tells her she should try a “real” sport. This infuriates me. Bringing this out of the rabbit hole now, me and all my siblings are unseen, and relate to each other in this way. If we told my dad this, he would deny any of it being his fault, he would say we didn’t communicate with him enough, or we are exaggerating the pain or that our whole generation is just weak. Having trauma invalidated, especially by the one that traumatized you is angering, for me anyways. Anger that turns to a deep sadness and feeling of being UNSEEN. Even writing this paragraph took a lot out of me, feel like I need a yoga class right now ha!

Sending a release of muscle tension to you (as I needed it as well)

Seaturtle

Anita,

Thank you for acknowledging what I went through in highschool.

“my goodness, for crying out loud … Basically, you were bullied on your first thread.”

Unfortunately the response felt normal to me, but at the same time not what I expected from reading the forums and seeing people being heard and given insight.

I like your principle of “Do no harm,” just hearing you say there are responses you have regretted on here, and witnessing how it makes me feel to receive a response like I did, I will be careful myself.

“it takes a village, like the saying goes. Let’s help each other best we can to feel more secure… in the insecure world we live in.”

This idea of needing community, a village, has never felt more real to me than this year. Moving away from my family in Washington, I have lots of uncles, aunts, and cousins that support me, leaving this for Arizona has made me realize how important community really is. I really want to find that for myself long term.

“His behavior during that one hour, in those circumstances (a golf tournament with friends) is not an indication of how he’d behave in normal circumstances on the long-run”

I did fear this. He was drinking and of course on vacation so I was getting his most low inhibitions self. He works in finances and holds large amounts of money for people and invests it for them, so I can imagine he needs to know how to get people to trust him. My loved ones are my weakness when it comes to reading people, because I want it so bad. When he asked me how I switched from a “jock” to an artist, and I told him I think I was an artist trying to be a jock, he got emotional and that seemed to me he was emotional about the fact he realizes he didn’t see me before. But this could all be very wishful thinking. He does see a therapist, and has since the divorce, it is actual his couples therapist that is his current one… it’s all very strange to me, that he has therapy yet doesn’t seem to be becoming more aware. The therapist is someone who took my dads side in the divorce, my mom says she always felt that woman did not like her and found her texting my dad once, while they were on a vacation that the therapist recommended, to try and reconcile the marriage.

“lessening and enduring emotional discomfort and not expecting perfect execution or linear progress.”

This is something I will be keeping in mind, thank you. Might become a sticky note quote -by Anita, haha.

” I think that taking an actual break (not a breakup) for long-enough will take care of your current heightened distress level and will open your heart and mind to feeling way better about him and about yourself.”

This is something I have considered several times. I have brought it up to my partner twice, and it sacred him both times and he quickly said no, that he did not want that. Now that you also know of his fear to be given the silent treatment, this is a reason I have hesitated to initiate a break, because I don’t want to trigger him in this way. I don’t want him to pull away from me and I certainly don’t want to be dating other people.

“…except for the quick and relatively easy, short-term solution of breaking up with him. A solution I imagine that you will regret on the long-term”

Exactly, sometimes I wonder if I can see into potential futures… or I just overthink so much that I trick myself into thinking that. Because it’s like I can see myself breaking up with him, exactly how it would happen, an impulse. I can see it relieving me for a while, but then, by the time I healed he would have closed his heart to me and forever be the one that got away. I can see myself wanting to be with someone else that has triggers as well, to make myself feel better, I would have someone to help, and less pressure to heal myself quickly before I ruin the relationship. But then I would eventually heal and outgrow that person, unless we healed together, but it’s much harder to predict other people. I then think, how powerful relationship with my current partner would be if we helped each other heal and stuck around to do so,, however this thought gives me some commitment fear, I think, and is where the voice of doubt chimes in, asking me “but is he the one you want a powerful relationship with, what if there is someone better suited.” I think that last one is the most superficial of all the thoughts, but it ties a bow on that whole thought spiral and I then feel stuck and indecisive.

You need your distress level- over days and weeks- to get lower first, so that you can think clearly and come up with reasonable, effective long-term solutions.

Back to taking a break, I have contemplated this for a year now, and I think a year been in this distress. I talked to one of my Aunts about this, her relationship with my uncle is the only relationship in my life I look up to. Her input was a break as well, as that also worked for her relationship early on. Now you bringing this up as well, I think I have been running from this idea and thought moving out would be enough. I just moved out two weeks and and thought I would see if that helps before taking a break, but honestly it is what I want and know I need. I just don’t know how to present it to him without losing him?

I appreciate you Anita,

Sending good vibrations 🙂

Thank you Anita, I look forward to your response tomorrow, enjoy your rest <3