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  • in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452547
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I’m keeping you in my prayers, that this transition period be not so hard on you 🙏

    Because it is a big change, and something you definitely didn’t want, since you say you’ve been in denial about it (I was in denial of sorts that it was really on sale. I was hoping for a miracle.). So now, when it finally happened, it hit you hard, causing strong emotions, as well as anxiety about the future.

    It seems you really loved the place, worked so hard, making sure everything is running smoothly. You worked both in the fields and inside, wherever there was a task that needed to be done – you were there to complete it. As Alessa said, you put your heart and soul into it. 🤍 You’ve even neglected your own house (BUT I neglected it big-time, being focused on the winery), putting all your efforts into the winery (and Tiny Buddha, of course 🙂 )

    And of course, when you give something your everything, it hurts bad that it’s coming to an end, an unsatisfactory end 😕

    The expenses were so huge (including a huge regular pay into insurance in case there’ll be lawsuits, and so many, many other costs), that there was never a profit to reach the few owners of the business.

    Right.. so never in a four years was there a profit for the owners… I guess they were always hoping for better times, for the business to pick up? Perhaps they too wanted it so badly that they didn’t want to see the reality of it: that the expenses are huge and the income doesn’t cover them (or barely covers them)?

    You said you had to pay huge sums towards potential lawsuits, and that you’re grateful that “no one got injured or died as a result of drinking alcohol here (I’d know about it through a lawsuit)

    I don’t understand that part: if it was legal to serve alcohol at the premises, why would the winery be responsible if someone gets injured as a result of alcohol consumption?

    The new owners have done their best to minimize the tiny fraction.

    I’m sorry about that, Anita 😢 I guess they offered a very low price, and the owners were forced to accept it, because keeping it was bringing more loss with each day, right?

    No to both questions. It bothered me in the past that we were good customers in his business (the taproom, for years) and he never came by to the winery, never a customer.. not even coming by to look at it. But somehow, I suppressed that disappointment and it erupted (the disappointment) yesterday for the first time..

    Okay, so you’ve never asked the taproom owner to come visit the winery, even though you were secretly hoping that he would… since you were such good customers. You were hoping he would show interest and reciprocate, but you’ve never expressed it to him.

    I understand why you’re feeling disappointed that he didn’t just spontaneously decide to pay you a visit. But we don’t know what was in his head: maybe he would have if you had asked him, or maybe he wouldn’t. I’m not blaming you at all, just exploring the possibilities of why he’s never paid you a visit. I hope you don’t mind me doing that?

    You said that you had pretty significant social anxiety, and that when in the company of people at various social events, you mostly listened, but you didn’t contribute to the conversation much (if I got that right?). So perhaps you haven’t talked much to him either, haven’t engaged in a conversation, and so he didn’t feel as close to you as to come visit the winery on its own accord?

    Just thinking out loud here…

    And the people who did show up, quite a few- were looking for freebies, or the lowest cost purchases from a dying/ closing business, like vultures.

    Well, that’s human nature… nobody likes to pay more if not necessary. Probably those goods were put on sale, and people bought them?

    But I guess what hurts more is that you didn’t get much empathy from the people who used to frequent the winery, such as that couple, Bruce and Carol? It’s like they didn’t care that the place is closing, they didn’t care about you… At least that’s the message they are sending, and it does hurt 😕

    This change, this shift is devastating.. but I think I’m adjusting to it tonight. I think I’m starting to relax into this new reality.

    That’s good… it is a big emotional shock, because it’s something you loved and didn’t want to let go. What’s good about it is that you’re most likely safe in terms of keeping the house and that you won’t become homeless. 🙏 And as you said, you’ve got your new focus:

    First plan: CLEAN, ORGANIZE, REMOVE the too much stuff laying everywhere.. and mice (if I come across a rat in the house, I’ll be beside-beside-beside myself, scared to death!)

    You said routine has always helped you calm down, so I guess you’ve got to find a new routine, perhaps around cleaning and organizing the house at first. And I guess you get to do your daily walks too.

    I was thinking that you’re lucky that you’re in good health and mobile (something I’m very limited with), and that you’re able to do hard physical work – showing how healthy and strong you are. And I’d see it as a very valuable resource, which I would be over the moon to get back.

    I’m not saying this to diminish your predicament, or to minimize your pain and loss. Not at all! I’m just saying that you’ve still got your health, which is super important. And you can start anew, invent your life anew.

    I know that finances are very important too, and I hope that that sorts itself out. But if you find yourself spiraling into “oh my God, what’s going to happen to me now?!” kind of thinking, perhaps it can help to think that you’ve still got your health, and that you can use your strength and mobility and all other skills and talents in some new endeavors.

    I hope you’ll feel more hopeful in the following days, as you’re accepting and relaxing into this new reality. Perhaps you can reframe it as a loss, but not a devastating, unrecoverable loss. You do have the ability to bounce back, and I’m sure you will! 🤍

    Dear Anita, I’ll keep praying for you!

    🙏 🤍 🫶 🤍 🙏

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452500
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    thank you so much for your prayers ❤️ 🙏

    You said you’ve recently started to pray again, and I see it as good sign, an opening towards something beyond, an opening that was closed due to the hopelessness of your life with your mother? You said you used to pray as a child (sorry, forgot what it was that you prayed for: for your pain to stop, but also for your mother, right?), but your prayers got unanswered, and so you stopped praying… and stopped believing, I guess?

    I’m so sorry about the loss of the winery… it seems it’s been operating with a loss for some time, given that you’ve been trying to sell it? I hope the money you got for it is not just a tiny fraction of what was invested… but I can imagine it’s a very bad feeling, not just from the financial standpoint, but also because it was something you invested a lot of your hard work and effort, and yet, it couldn’t be sustained 😢

    But it’s good to hear that you’re not in an immediate danger of losing your home, and that you’re not too worried about it:

    I don’t feel a.. clear and present danger of being homeless anytime soon.. but I figure (and I hope I’m figuring wrong) that it’s possible. I am not too worried, really. I take it one day at a time.

    Yes! I hope there’s a plan for the post-winery period, which includes the financial dealings and never becoming homeless! 🤞 🙏

    As for the situation with the taproom owner, have you ever invited him to come visit the winery? Was he promising but never got to actually do it? I understand your anger and disappointment that people didn’t feel too much empathy, and didn’t bother to pay a visit (except 2 of them) before the winery’s final closing 😕

    I’m sorry you’re thinking of never going to the taproom again, since that’s the place where you’ve forged some good relationships… but I understand that if only 2 out of dozens of people there showed interest in the winery’s destiny, that you don’t feel like socializing with them again…

    I am besides myself, really.. more disturbed than I felt for YEARS!

    But I’m in control on the outside… Just need to figure things out, from here onward.

    I’m sorry this has affected you so much… I guess you’ve been anticipating the sale of the winery for some time, but you haven’t anticipated that people would be so neutral about it, not really empathizing with you, not bothering to come and visit. I guess that’s what really hurts…😕

    But yeah, try to remain cool-headed in terms of figuring out your next steps and making the best possible decision, considering the circumstances.

    Wishing you strength and good fortune in this new chapter 🙏 I know it’s not what you wanted, but there isn’t much you can do about it but to accept it, and try to make the best of it…

    🙏 🤍 🫶 ❤️ 🙏

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452479
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I’m sorry about the silence, but some new problems have popped up with my spine, presumably due to poor posture and long sitting at the computer… They popped up without any previous symptoms, out of the blue, although they’ve probably been in the making for some time… 😢

    What to say but that I’m dumbfounded, angry and disappointed… but can’t do much else but to accept it and take some action/adjustments… plus another round of consulting with my orthopedic doctor and then probably physical therapy… ehhh 😢

    This also means my messages will be shorter because right now my neck and shoulders are hurting when I’m writing on the computer..

    I’m really sorry about you having spent 4 years working on the winery’s premises for free, pruning the orchards and doing all kind of physical work, as well as participating in social activities. You seemed to have a pretty rich social life there, and I understand you’re feeling sad that all of this is happening 😕… Is there any chance that the new owner would keep the taproom and the community events, or they will revamp everything?

    I totally believe what you said that you’re a very hard-working person, because you are very hard-working on these forums as well, tirelessly replying to hundreds, even thousands of people over the years.

    And I can imagine how hurtful it was to be hearing from your mother that you’re lazy and selfish, when you’re anything but!

    Unfortunately, that’s how narcissistic people operate: put down the other person, so to weaken them and elevate yourself. But it’s especially heart-breaking to receive those false accusation from one’s own mother 😕

    I do hope that you get to keep your house!! 🤞 🙏 And that there is a way to start anew… a fresh, new chapter in life? Although I know it’s easier said than done…

    Dear Anita, my today’s post is full of sad and perplexed face emojis… because these don’t seem to be the best of times for either of us. But I hope better times are awaiting, and that it’s not just wishful thinking (something you’ve mentioned recently).. I hope and pray it’s not wishful thinking, but a real possibility 🤞 🙏

    You said on the other thread you’re feeling a bit better today, so that’s good news 🤞 Hope that the following days, weeks and months flow smoothly for you!

    🙏 🤍 🫶 ❤️ 🙏

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452447
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Alessa,

    I too had a feeling that you were coming from your own perspective, that of a single mother (if I got that right) with a history of trauma and abuse. I’ve said it before that I totally appreciate everyone who chooses to be a parent, and that it’s a hard work and a challenge that I myself never felt quite ready for. So I totally appreciate and understand your perspective. ❤️

    The main difference between you and Anita’s mother, I believe, is that you acknowledged your own trauma and got therapy for it. And you really didn’t want to give the trauma over to your son.

    Unlike that, Anita’s mother never acknowledged that there’s something wrong with her or her parenting. She never received therapy, was never interested in self-development or child psychology (like her brother was), and so she just perpetuated her trauma mindlessly. And with vigor, being totally convinced that what she is doing is right.

    So that’s a huge difference between a self-aware mother that you are, and a mother who refuses to look within and take responsibility for her behavior and her emotional reactions.

    That’s why I said I can very much empathize with her being a single mother with 2 small children – it’s not an easy task, by any means. Still, the route she chose – of constantly complaining and never seeking help for her predicament (never accepting that she can do something about it) – is not something I can empathize with. Neither of course with her abusing her children.

    I know you haven’t said we should empathize with her, or excuse her. You were coming from your own perspective. But thankfully, you’re very different than Anita’s mother, and are truly doing your best to heal and be a good, loving mother to your son.

    You’re perhaps even being too hard on yourself, sometimes expecting perfection from yourself, when that’s neither possible nor needed. It’s okay to make mistakes even as parents, as long as we later repair it, so that the child can feel safe with us again. ❤️

    As for focusing on the good memories from your childhood, I’m glad you have them. I suppose they serve as anchors, as something positive about your childhood, in spite of all the difficulties you’ve been through, right?

    I too have nice memories from my childhood that involve my mother, but it’s mostly when we were in the company of other adults and their children. That’s when I had a good time, because my mother wasn’t focused on me, so I was free to enjoy my time with those children.

    When I was alone with my mother, I don’t remember too much joy because she would often criticize me, or not be supportive of me, or just in general be unhappy and complain about her “sad life”. And so there wasn’t much joy in my interactions with my mother…

    Society is broken and wrong. I even disagree with the premise that people who abuse in a more covert way are seen as good parents by society. They are simply not seen as problematic enough to use the resources it would cost to remove their children.

    Well, social services don’t know if someone is being emotionally abusive to their child… specially if the child isn’t acting out, but is a withdrawn, shy kid, who completes their school tasks, for example. If there are no “screaming” outer signs, nobody would notice, not even the teachers, I guess…

    I think it would be great if subjects like emotional intelligence would be taught at school… because school is still all about developing IQ, but not EQ (unless that is changing too?). I know there are some experimental programs in some schools, but it’s not taught on a wide scale…

    The world is slowly changing in regards to children. What was accepted, is now illegal.

    Yes, and I think parents (in the Western society, at least) are changing and becoming interested in things like conscious parenting and being emotionally better attuned to their children’s needs. So that’s a good development. But I hear there is also a phenomenon of parents becoming too permissive, which is the opposite extreme of the strict, authoritarian parenting style of the old times.

    Anyway, I hope that there are more and more parents who are working on their own trauma and learning how to be good, loving parents, and still set boundaries (gently, lovingly).

    Things are easier for me now. I love my son and enjoy being a mother. I’m very thankful for the help I got.

    This is so good to hear! ❤️ I’m glad you got the help you needed to cope with postpartum depression, and that you’re now happy to be a mom. You’re doing an amazing job, Alessa! ❤️❤️

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452423
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I’m very sorry about the latest events in your life. 😢 Please share as much or as little about it as you feel comfortable…

    But if I understood well, you now don’t have a place to stay (Don’t even know what’s next.. Living in a tent.. don’t know.), because you were staying at the premises of the old winery, which has been sold to a new owner?

    I assume that you or someone related to you was the previous owner? And I’m very sorry for the financial loss and finding yourself in an unknown territory, needing to figure things out… 😢

    I hope you do have a plan at least for the near future, and that you’ll have a place to stay?

    As for the discussion with Alessa, I think it’s good that we talk about those things and refine our understanding.

    It’s just occurred to me that parents who meet their children’s physical/material needs seem on the outside like good parents, because there are no visible signs of abuse or neglect, the child is well-kempt, and everything seems fine.

    And I’m thinking that it is for those kind of parents that people often say (including their adult children later in life): “well, they did the best they could.” Because they had a job and put food on the table, which means they weren’t addicts, alcoholics, they haven’t abandoned their children, there was no domestic violence (at least not the kind where police would need to intervene)… so all in all, they led a seemingly orderly life (seen from the outside), and were hard-working parents.

    But no one knows what’s happening behind closed doors, and what kind of emotional (and physical and even sexual) abuse a child is exposed to. It all happens covertly, without people knowing about it. Those parents aren’t good parents, but they’re considered good parents by societal standards, because they don’t visibly abuse or neglect the child. But no one is asking what effect they have on the child’s psyche…

    And I think we (society as a whole) need to become aware that providing for the child’s physical needs but destroying their psyche isn’t really good parenting…

    Dear Alessa, I’m not saying you claimed that (that Anita’s mother was a good mother), just that to me, it sounded as if you echoed the often used argument that “she did the best she could” (meaning she worked hard and took care of her children’s physical/material needs). Which, in my opinion, is by far not enough – if the emotional/psychological needs are completely disregarded and severely violated.

    Dear Anita, I’ll reply to your other posts a bit later, most probably tomorrow. As I said, I’m sorry about this significant loss and change in your life, and hope that you do have plans for the immediate future 🙏

    ❤️ 🫶 ❤️

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452407
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Alessa,

    first, let me say that I know you mean well and didn’t mean anything bad. And my intention wasn’t to defend Anita, but to simply give my perspective on the notion of a “good mother”.

    You said that in her own mind, she was a good mother because she provided for her children’s material needs (and she didn’t abandon them – unlike her own father did to her).

    The problem is that every narcissistic mother is a good mother in her own mind – she believes she is a perfect mother and can do no wrong.

    If we evaluate her based on her own standards, she would be a good mother: didn’t abandon her children, put food on the table, sent them to school, bought them clothes, bought them toys, provided for their material needs.

    But if we evaluate her based on how she actually parented, she cannot be called a good mother by any means. She in fact was an abusive mother, even though she provided for her children’s material needs.

    So I just wanted to say that her subjective evaluation of herself as a good mother doesn’t really mean anything. Because in her twisted mind, she was the best mother. She didn’t think she should change anything about her parenting. And yet she committed pretty severe abuse.

    And that’s what makes narcissistic parents so harmful: they believe they’re great parents, they’re telling you they are the best parent in the world and that they care about you so much, all the while they’re abusing you.

    And then when you (their child) dare to say anything, or if you don’t behave the way they want you to behave – you’re called evil, ungrateful, selfish, hurting them etc. You’re made into a villain for simply having normal child’s needs. Or simply for the air you breathe, as it was in Anita’s case.

    So this “great mother”, the “best mother” is a lie with which they’re elevating themselves, denying their abuse, gaslighting their children and guilt-tripping them for “hurting” their mother. It’s a ploy to destroy the child, basically.

    So when you say (not the exact words, but the point you were making): she believed she was a good mother, and she did everything she thought a good mother should do. And she was a hard-working, busy single mother with no time for herself – it does sound like excusing her.

    I’m not saying she wasn’t in a difficult predicament, being a single mother with a history of trauma and abuse. And we can empathize with that.

    However, what I’m saying is that it doesn’t matter if she believed she was a good mother. What matters is how she actually behaved towards her children. And that was very abusive. She provided for their physical needs, but was destructive for their mental health. And in Anita’s case, even to her physical well-being (tics).

    What’s worse is that she refused to admit there’s anything wrong with her. She never admitted her own trauma. She never admitted she was doing something wrong. And that’s I think the most toxic: being convinced in your own goodness and righteousness, and yet being so harmful to those who depend on you.

    You said in your latest post to Anita:

    One of the things that you have brought up in the past is that you have difficulty with your trauma because your mother at times tried to express care. But behaved horribly cruelly at other times

    Yes, narcissistic mothers can do nice things for us: bake our favorite cake, throw us a birthday party, buy us nice clothes and expensive toys. And yet throughout all that the child feels like not good enough, because of the constant criticism and shaming and complaining on their part. So the “gift” is laced with poison, so to speak.

    We might end up feeling undeserving of the gift, because of this constant shaming and self-pitying on their part. The result is severely diminished mental health (C-PTSD), while at the same time having all the material things we can wish for. Not a good deal, if you ask me…

    Personally, I’ve found it helpful to see the situation with my Mother for what it was. It is a relief in a strange way, to acknowledge the “good” as well as the bad.

    In narcissistic abuse, the “good” is intertwined with the bad, they cannot be separated. Even when we’re receiving the good, we’re also receiving the bad. That’s why it’s hard to appreciate the good: because it was contaminated with the bad. It was poisoned, if you will.

    My mother would ride bikes with us to tire us out. And ship us off to people at the church to work on their farm. She would surprise us in the middle of the night occasionally, waking us up to go get pizza. Sometimes during summer we would get ice cream cones.

    Maybe your mother was different – maybe she didn’t shame you and criticize you so mercilessly? Maybe during those good times, when you would ride bikes together, she was behaving well with you? Perhaps the memories of the good times (riding bikes, working on a farm, possibly surrounded by healthier adults?) are mostly positive, happy memories, without the contamination of your mother’s toxicity?

    But also, a part of the problem with abusive parents is the intermittent reinforcement, where we’re occasionally treated well. And so we long for those “good” times, and downplay/excuse the times were we were abused. And that’s how trauma bond is created…

    Anyway, my goal with my previous post wasn’t to accuse anyone, or defend anyone, but to refine our understanding of abusive parents. As I’m writing here, I’m also clarifying things for myself, so please see it in that light.

    ❤️❤️

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452374
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I think of you, Tee, as a champion for the truth, hence why I refer to you as “my hero”.

    I am now a champion for the truth too!”

    Thank you, that’s so nice of you to say! ❤️ It means a lot, because yes, truth is important to me. And I’m glad you too are becoming a champion for the truth! 😊 ❤️

    If she accepted, acknowledged and let me know that I gave her something valuable that made a positive difference for her, her Poor Me Act would have been endangered, an act she needed to maintain so to have the moral superiority to keep me enslaved through guilt and shame.

    I ask myself why she wasn’t satisfied with my self-annulment for long.. Because she needed to feel superior to me in terms of righteousness, which meant that she was invested in making me feel guilty and indebted to her. She didn’t want to reduce my debt to her (to make it up to her for all of my wrongs and failures, for being a “bad daughter”) in fear that the debt wouldn’t be as big as she wanted it to be.

    This is such a profound realization! If she had accepted your help, or your gifts, her “Poor me” act would have been endangered. She wouldn’t have been able to maintain the position that she is the greatest victim there is, the greatest martyr. And this was how she maintained her position of superiority: by portraying herself as the greatest victim (if not in the entire world, then for sure greater than you, who in her opinion had it easy).

    And yes, she didn’t want to accept your help or your gifts because she wanted to see you as eternally indebted to her – which put her in a superior position and gave her the justification to blame you and criticize you.

    So yes, you’re seeing it very well: she didn’t want to accept any help from you because it would have diminished her narrative that she is the greatest victim and that you’re ungrateful and that you can never repay her for the sacrifices she made.

    “When in fact she didn’t want to be helped – she enjoyed her martyr role.”- She.. enjoyed it? What kind of joy was it, for her? The joy of moral superiority..?

    Perhaps “enjoy” is not the best expression to use for a covert narcissist, because they don’t really enjoy anything. But yes, the the pleasure, the satisfaction of being the greatest martyr, and thus being morally superior to others.

    It occurs to me that grandiose narcissists brag about their skills and achievements, while covert narcissists “brag” about being the greatest victim. So there is a sense of superiority, but in a twisted way, where the more they suffer, the more superior to others they feel.

    I just asked Copilot about the book (I remember the title, not the content). Copilot: “Core themes- *Definition of Evil: Peck describes evil as the refusal to face one’s own moral failings. Instead of confronting their flaws, “people of the lie” project blame and attack others. * The Lie: The “lie” refers to self-deception and denial. Evil people construct false narratives to avoid responsibility… Peck’s central argument is that evil thrives in denial and dishonesty…

    “People of the Lie avoid confronting their moral failings because doing so would shatter the false self-image of perfection and righteousness they cling to. Instead, they use denial, deception, and projection to protect their fragile egos and maintain control over others… They destroy or diminish others to preserve their own sense of superiority.”-

    Thanks Copilot for the summary 🙂 I haven’t read the book either, but found a book review online, and it basically says the same. Yeah, it basically describes narcissistic people. I don’t know if the author says it explicitly in the book, but the description fits narcissistic people perfectly…

    I do feel sorry for her being bald and for her childhood.. that’s empathy, yes. As long as I separate it from guilt, it’s okay to feel it. To feel it if I do, when I do.. but not to sink and drown in it. When I feel it, acknowledge it and exit it. Move on to something else. What do you think, Tee?

    Yes, that’s a good way to do it. Don’t start blaming yourself or thinking you should have done something about it, or that you are in any way responsible for it. Just feel it, put yourself in a position of someone who lost all of their hair at a young age. It is traumatizing…

    So you can have empathy for her, but that’s it. As you said: “acknowledge it and exit it. Move on to something else”. Yes, exactly!

    Anita the psychologist gave me her email address so to continue a conversation we started about Tourette’s being a result of trauma in childhood during the first 7 years of life, she said.

    Oh good! That’s a nice coincidence to meet a namesake psychologist who is able to discuss the Tourette’s syndrome with you and possibly even help you. That sounds promising! 🤞

    As for what Alessa said, yes, it wasn’t easy for your mother being a single mother with 2 small children, and having a history of abuse and neglect, and perhaps even being looked down socially. Perhaps some of her obsessions – such as her preference for fair-skinned people – stem from feeling disadvantaged due to her skin color.

    However, I wouldn’t agree that she “took care of you when you were sick”, because she disregarded your tics. A mother who has any semblance of empathy or concern for her child wouldn’t disregard such serious symptoms. She would have stopped and consulted somebody, preferably have taken you to a doctor. Or at least she would have stopped her verbal attacks on you when she noticed you were twitching.

    I totally understand Alessa’s perspective, and that being a parent, especially a single parent, is very hard. However, I don’t think that she provided for you what she herself wanted as a child. Because I’m sure she would have wanted someone to pay attention to the fungus infection of her scalp – which sadly no one did. And to me, it’s similar to her not paying attention to your tics.

    She paid attention to “cleaning you properly”, which resulted in inappropriate touching and covert sexual abuse. But she didn’t pay attention to your tics. Which is gross neglect, if you ask me.

    Dear Alessa, I know you’re coming from the perspective of a caring mother, but I don’t think that Anita’s mother was simply a tired, stressed, overworked mother who did the best she could. Even if we disregard for a moment the verbal and physical abuse, she didn’t pay attention to her daughter’s tics. She didn’t pay attention to what the neighbor said that dressing and washing an adolescent is not good for their mental health. She didn’t stop to think “wait, maybe Rosie is right”, but she replied, with self-confidence, that her daughter likes it.

    So unfortunately, I think that in those aspects, she didn’t seek to spare her children from a similar type of suffering that she herself went through. Rather, I’d say that she actually wanted to punish her children for the suffering she went through as a child. And that’s what made her very abusive. And very resistant to any kind of external input that she might be doing things wrong.

    Perhaps a part of her abuse can be excused by social norms at the time (it was more acceptable to hit children and verbally abuse them in those times). But a part is certainly the result of her unique personality and the way she chose to deal with her trauma: by denying that she has trauma, and then acting out by abusing and punishing her own children.

    This of course doesn’t mean she doesn’t deserve empathy for the real and undeniable struggles she’s been through as a child and beyond. However, there is a part where she actively refused responsibility for her own actions (and her own trauma) and put the blame on her children, which isn’t something to empathize with.

    ❤️ 🫶 ❤️

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452349
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I’m happy that you’re slowly realizing that your mother was a different person that what you’ve thought her to be.

    And yes, covert narcissism is very tricky because the person seems humble and generous, as you said, when in fact that’s all a pretense, that’s all PR to maintain a certain public image.

    And it’s the covert type of extreme self centeredness aka narcissism that’s confusing (presenting herself as humble, shy..) and in so being, more harmful perhaps than the overt type.

    Yes, I agree with you that it’s actually more toxic than overt narcissism because the person appears as if having low self-esteem, as if they were insecure, self-deprecating and needing help and reassurance. But then it turns out that if you want to help them, they actually reject it or dismiss it, and keep playing the victim.

    And with that, they manipulate and guilt-trip the people around them (those who love them and want them to be happy). And of course, the greatest victims are their children, because they truly want to see their parents happy, which with covert narcissists is mission impossible. 🙁

    I just asked Copilot: “are there parents who never find pleasure in their child’s pain?”-

    Notice the question, Tee. I really don’t know the answer in regard to all or most parents.

    Yeah, that’s pretty extraordinary. But you’ve explained how it got to that point: you needed to normalize your mother’s abuse, so to make it more bearable, so that you would be able to stay bonded to her (which was your survival need).

    Lots of times children do it also because they don’t have a different reference point, they only know their own parents and their own family. They don’t know it’s not normal if the parent hits them or yells at them all the time…. they don’t know that abuse isn’t normal. And they also don’t know that they didn’t deserve it…

    It’s a pity you couldn’t speak to your sister about it, but it’s also true that she was 6 years younger, so you wouldn’t even have been able to confide in her for quite a long time (because she was simply too small to understand), even if you wanted to. So you were in it alone, thinking it was normal 😢

    Her Act confused me for the longest time. Now I see it as an Act. And the real person.. nothing like the act.

    Her act- not at all threatening. Looked so normal and friendly. She looked and sounded like the safest person in the world. When she dropped the act, she was threatening, dangerous- threatening suicide or homicide, or grave injury or just shooting the most shaming words as in out of a cannon.

    So, that has been my mother.

    Now I know. I can see through the Act.

    The love I had for her was the love for an Act.

    You describe it very well: her “kind and loving” side was an act, and who you loved was an act. That wasn’t her true self, but her fake persona.

    Her “love and kindness” quickly disappeared when the guests left – that’s when she returned to her normal, abusive self, in which there was no concern for you and your needs: it was all about her and her needs. Me, me, me, as you said…. which is a typical narcissistic feature.

    I’m glad that you’re seeing it so clearly now, Anita, although it was somewhat of a rude awakening, realizing some pretty painful things about your mother. But that’s what’s necessary for our healing: we cannot heal while not knowing the truth, or knowing the truth half way. We need to know it all, so we can process it learn from it…

    You’re doing a great job, Anita, I’m impressed by your realizations and connecting the dots very quickly! ❤️❤️

    I myself am not feeling my best, due to some health problems again, but I’d prefer not to talk about it at the moment. It’s already grotesque a little, to have those health problems popping up out of nowhere all the time, but it is what it is… I remain optimistic, taking one day at a time 🙏

    Have a nice Saturday, Anita!

    ❤️ 🫶 ❤️

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452314
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    happy belated Thanksgiving! 😊

    And what an amazing idea: to give yourself thanks for everything that you’ve done for your mother, for all the effort you’ve invested in trying to please her, make her happy, make her life less of a suffering… it didn’t work, but not because of you, but because of her! However, you’ve tried, you did your best, you gave your all!

    And you completely deserve praise and acknowledgment for your sincere, heart-felt attempts:

    So, today, I am giving myself credit for all my many, many.. many efforts to help her. FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE!

    Coming to think about it- the timing is perfect: Thanksgiving!

    Thank you, Anita, for your many, many efforts and all your hard work invested in helping this woman!!!

    Amen to that! 🙏 ❤️ Very well said!

    I hope you’re still feeling the enthusiasm and vigor of those words, and the acknowledgment, the self-validation, that you indeed did you best, while she was the ungrateful one. You were giving and giving, while she was rejecting, dismissing, criticizing… and remained bitter and unhappy throughout.

    It occurs to me that you were the people-pleaser, or better say, Mother-pleaser: you did things against your will, things that were hurting you – only to please her, to see that satisfied smile of approval on her face:

    she signaled approval, that’s for sure, a rare commodity for me: her approval.. another rare commodity: a genuine smile on her face. She experienced pleasure in seeing me accommodating her need to have power-over, and I wanted her pleased.

    She approved of you when you diminished, or almost annulled yourself. When she could control you completely. You gave her that. But she wasn’t satisfied nevertheless. Maybe for a brief moment she was, but not beyond that.

    And she perpetuated the lie that you’re bad, that you’re hurting her, while she was the one who was hurting you all along. Yes, narcissistic people are People of the Lie…

    So, congratulations, Anita, for seeing through the Lie, for not believing her narrative anymore. Congratulations for seeing things clearly: who you are and who she is…

    I’d like to comment on something very important that you said about empathy:

    Empathy for her (feeling so very sorry for her) and Guilt went hand in hand.. well, almost my whole life. The guilt was heavier, more painful than the empathy. Early on, I figured it was my job to make her happy, that her misery is my responsibility to fix. Feeling that I failed my # 1 responsibility was very painful. When I found out that she was bald, it meant that I had so much more to fix, so much more to compensate her for.

    Currently, empathy without the guilt feels so much lighter.

    That’s an important realization: that your empathy was mixed with guilt. Because she was 1) portraying herself as the victim and 2) blaming you (among other people) for her misery. She made you feel guilty for her misery.

    Plus, you wanted to free her from her misery even in instances in which she didn’t blame you, e.g. when you had guests and she would bitterly complain before and after their visit. She didn’t blame you for that, however you still wanted to help her, to ease her “suffering”.

    But then she forbid you to talk to the guests about it (“I will murder you!“), because she of course wanted to maintain her “kind and generous” persona – someone who gives big, expensive gifts, and prepares intricate, lavish meals (I suppose).

    Anyway, you tried to free her from her “misery”, when in fact it was all a farce. It was a self-inflicted “misery”, because no one was forcing her to give those expensive gifts and prepare complicated meals. It was her choice, which she then presented as some big sacrifice. She portrayed herself as the victim, the martyr, when it was actually her choice, and it served to maintain a certain public image.

    You believed that she was indeed suffering, you believed that she was the victim – when in fact, it was an act. And then you blamed yourself for not being able to help her. When in fact she didn’t want to be helped – she enjoyed her martyr role.

    And it’s a great thing that you’re now freeing yourself from that guilt. And that you’re able to separate empathy for the person from feeling guilty for their suffering.

    A good example of that would be your mother’s baldness: you can be sorry for your mother having such a handicap, because it is really a handicap and very unpleasant. However, you don’t need (or didn’t need to) to feel guilty about it and obliged to compensate her for it, because it’s not your fault and there isn’t even much you can do about it. You can simply empathize, but without feeling guilty or obliged to help.

    So yeah, empathy without guilt is a great concept – thanks for mentioning it, Anita. ❤️ When we empathize like that, we can simply “sit with the person” in their pain, without necessarily doing anything. We may help of course if needed, but sometimes it’s enough if we simply offer a listening ear and validate their emotions. If they feel heard and validated.

    Good to hear that you had a pleasant Thanksgiving, and that you met some nice, interesting people 😊

    Wishing you a nice day today! 😊

    ❤️ 🫶 ❤️

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452288
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    sorry, I’m in a bit of a rush today, not very focused. But I’d like to say that I hear you and understand that you might be feeling befuddled by these newest realizations: that you didn’t see something that you say was pretty obvious (your mother wearing a wig), or that you’ve only now realized that what you saw that early morning wasn’t a dream, but you really saw your mother’s bald head.

    But your mother told you it was just a bad dream, and so you didn’t question it further. You accepted her words. I think the key to understand this is what you wrote here:

    I believed her because there was nothing I needed more than to believe her.

    That’s true. You needed to believe her, because this is what allowed you to stay attached to her, which is what we as children need to survive. We need to stay attached to our parents, and that includes believing that our parents are good people and that they have our best interests in mind.

    So, believing our parents, trusting their intentions, blaming ourselves rather than them if they mistreat us… that’s all how we keep the hope that our parents are good people and that we’re safe with them.

    In addition, abusive parents (specially narcissistic parents) regularly gaslight us and tell us various lies (that they’re the best parents, that they only want what’s best for us, that we’re bad, ungrateful and unworthy, but that they love us anyway, etc etc). Similar lies that your mother told you… And they’re really good at “selling” their narrative.

    So I think it’s kind of a 2-fold action: we want to believe them, because we need it for our survival, and they’re really good at portraying themselves as good and us as bad. They’re very convincing. And I think that as a result, we get easily brainwashed: we are receptive to it, and they are master gaslighters.

    And then we start gaslighting ourselves too, telling ourselves that our parent is a good parent, that things aren’t as bad, that they mean well… and I think that as a part of that self-gaslighting, we might not even see or perceive certain things that would be obvious to an outside observer.

    It’s like we don’t want to see those things, and so we block them from our conscious awareness. I suppose that’s what happened to you, and why you never put 2 and 2 together regarding your mother wearing a wig. She told you it wasn’t real, and you believed her, because you wanted to believe her: not only about the wig, but about everything else. Because you needed to believe her, because that was key for your survival.

    At least that’s how I explain it to myself… what are your thoughts on this?

    HOW MANY LIES..???

    The lies are unfortunately pervasive: almost everything she told you (or conditioned you to believe) about yourself and other people isn’t true. Also, a lot of what she told you about herself – how good and loving mother she is – is also not true.

    But the worst lies are those that we’ve accepted about ourselves: about our worth and how worthy of love we are. And it’s good to hear that your sense of self-worth is growing by the day:

    I am experiencing a significant decline in shame.. and a felt increase in self-worth these very days

    I’m really happy about that, Anita ❤️ It’s a great sign, and indicates that her lies are having less and less impact on you! 🤞

    🙏 ❤️ 🫶 ❤️

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452241
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I went back and re-read several of your latest posts, and here are my comments:

    I misspoke about her not expressing anger at her oldest sister.. I don’t remember her confronting her oldest sister (I’ll refer to her as M), but I know that for a while she wouldn’t talk to M, as in a no-contact, because she was angry at her, she realized at that time that M really, really did hurt her.

    But after some time she went back to talking with her. It’s like part of her was M. M was an overt aggressor, consistently, no meek/ people pleasing performances; the mother switched between being M and performing meek/ people pleasing- unlike M- in between returns to being the overt aggressor that M was.

    It occurs to me now that your mother doesn’t sound like a typical people pleaser, because people pleasers do things that are often against their best interests and are hurting them, but they’re still doing it, in order to please others. Your mother sounds more like someone who was faking kindness and “meekness” to the outside world, when it suited her – to boost her public image. She wasn’t doing it to please others (and sacrifice her own real needs), but to boost her fake persona.

    she lost all her hair- forevermore- as a result of an untreated scalp fungus infection. A shame she carried with her throughout her life.. cutting her head off photos.

    And it occurred to me just now.. for the first time in my whole life, why she scrubbed my scalp so terribly deep and rough.. because I had hair and she didn’t..?

    Yes, I think she was jealous of your hair! She might have been punishing you for having hair…

    I didn’t know she had no hair until I was 26 or 27. She wore wigs the whole time. I just didn’t know until .. was it my sister who told me (I don’t remember). I was in shock at the time, that for a quarter of a century, I didn’t know.

    Yeah, that’s pretty extraordinary that you’d never noticed! I guess she was hiding it well… perhaps she didn’t let you see her early in the morning (provided that she took the wig off while sleeping)?

    Good point, Tee. She wasn’t upset at all about me leaving, and again, it never occurred to me that indeed she wasn’t upset. Sincerely, truthfully.. I was never a person to her, never of a human value, one she’d miss..

    Yes, but I thought she might “miss” you as someone to harass, even an “object” to harass, if you will. Because such people need someone to abuse and victimize, so to feel better about themselves.

    But I guess she quickly turned to your sister, as you said, started buggering her to get married and give her a grandchild. And so she did, although you said the guy she married wasn’t a good fit…

    “It seems your mother didn’t even try to establish total control over your sister like she did with you.”- not physically, as in washing, feeding, wiping and dressing her. (Not necessarily in that order.. sad lol).

    What occurs to me now, and it might be painful to read, is that it seems your mother hasn’t sexually harassed your sister… your sister “only” received emotional (and perhaps physical?) abuse. But she didn’t have access to her body… I realize this may be very painful to read, that you might have received more of the abuse, or more destructive type of abuse. I’m very sorry about that, Anita 😢

    I just felt so much affection for you, Tee.. for saying these things with passion (I meant emotional passion, of course.. everything feels contaminated as a result of sexual abuse.. the word “passion”, the word “affection”)

    Like her affection when holding my hand on the way to the airport.. if it was affection, I couldn’t differentiate it from sexuality. Every smile on her face directed to me, a softness in her voice.. it all felt creepy.

    Right, it seems it was her who contaminated affection with sexuality, and so now when you say affection, immediately a sexual meaning pops up in your head.

    (BTW, thank you, I do feel strongly about childhood sexual abuse not being a small thing. So yes, I’m passionate about defending the victims and not minimizing the abuse. ❤️)

    I was wondering if she felt “affection” for you when she was controlling you completely, including your body, e.g. when she was putting on your pajamas after bathing and you lying on the bed like a doll. You said that’s when she had a satisfied smile on her face (at least in front of the neighbor, Rosie, who challenged her that one time).

    So I’m wondering if she felt “affection”, i.e. she felt pleased with you, when she could control you completely (including your body), i.e. treat you like an object with which she can do whatever she pleases?

    That control included touching you inappropriately while washing you (pre-puberty), and demanding access to your naked body (post-puberty). As I’m writing this, I’m hoping that phrasing it like this isn’t too sensitive for you? Please let me know of it is, will you?

    I think Copilot explained it very well why it constitutes sexual abuse:

    Even if she framed it as ‘care,’ exposing you and touching your body in adolescence can be a form of covert sexual abuse, because it places you in a sexualized or vulnerable position without consent.

    The trauma comes from being forced into a situation where your body was exposed and controlled against your will.

    Yeah, she put you in a sexualized and vulnerable position (demanding that you let her into the bathroom to wash your hair and back, while in a vulnearable, exposed position), and your body was touched/manipulated against your will (by manipulation I mean when you had to lie down on the bed, while she was dressing you).

    And I’m thinking now that those washing/dressing rituals might not have been so much about her extracting sexual pleasure from it, but more about establishing complete dominion and control over you.

    As Alessa said: sexual abuse is the ultimate way to strip someone of their autonomy. Yes, because it’s violating the autonomy of our body, which no one else should lay claim to, but ourselves.

    But regardless whether she extracted sexual pleasure from it or not (you said she did from parading naked in front of you), it still constitutes sexual abuse. And as Copilot says, I think it’s very important that you’re now naming it and understanding it.

    Because until now, it was all a bit of a haze. Now it’s becoming more clear, and inasmuch as it is painful, it is also liberating, I hope, and is contributing to your healing. ❤️

    So yes, let’s keep talking about it… because the clearer it becomes, the more equipped you will be to heal and put an end on your mother’s toxic legacy 🙏 ❤️ 🙏

    🙏 ❤️ 🫶 ❤️ 🙏

    in reply to: Parent Life #452240
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Alessa,

    sure, it’s okay to move the conversation here, since yeah, it’s not so much about conflict any more 😊

    My knee is marginally better now, maybe because I’m more diligent in strengthening my muscles, but as soon as there is any strain on it, such as walking up a few flights of stairs, it gets worse. But anyway, I’ve still got a few options that I’m going to try to achieve a bit more stable improvement, so that’s my plan 🙂

    Good to hear that your son is showing interest in the Paw Patrol potty. Are you hoping that he might not even need a diaper in the nursery, so no need for diaper change? (sorry if I sound daft – I don’t know how long it takes to train a little one to go potty?)

    I know it will be healthy for him to learn to trust others. He has been lucky so far, the vast majority of people have been kind to him.

    Yes, I’m sure it will be good for him to socialize with other kids. And since he’s over 2 years old now (if I’ve got that right?), it’s okay for him to start the occasional “separation” from you, since around 2 begins the so-called individuation period. The child likes to explore their surroundings and then come back to the parent. Being away from you for a few hours seems like a perfect recipe for that. Plus, it gives you an opportunity to study for your exams 😊

    Hmm well it’s complicated. I’ve always had a tendency for anxiety. I think a lot of the time, I have unrealistic expectations. I guess because I have needs, just like anyone else. I seek reassurance and empathy from people who might not be emotionally equipped to handle that in the moment.

    Ah well, uncertainty is an issue for me. It’s common with autism. So much of life is uncertain.

    Right, it’s good that you know where your anxiety is mostly coming from: unrealistic expectations (towards certain people) and a general uncertainty about life.

    I guess because I have needs, just like anyone else.

    I’d just like to confirm: yes, your needs are legitimate. It’s just that you might be looking to meet them by the kind of people who don’t have the emotional capacity for that, or don’t always have that capacity. So I guess that’s something to take into account, even if it may be painful…

    As for general anxiety due to life being uncertain, yeah, I’m familiar with that. I guess it’s not necessarily just due to autism, but can be a consequence of complex PTSD. We haven’t learned safety, haven’t been brought up with the sense that we’re safe, because well… our mothers were unsafe. So that sense of a “safe harbor” is missing.

    We now need to give it to ourselves, and it’s not always easy. It’s definitely not easy for me. But there are somatic techniques to deal with it, such as imagining a safe place, giving ourselves a hug, feeling safe in the here-and-now, being grounded and breathing deeply and slowly. In general, techniques to calm down our hyper-vigilant nervous system.. because that’s the basis for a general feeling of safety, I guess.

    Thanks, I like programming. It’s really fun for me, my brain works in that straightforward way.

    That’s great that you’ve found a field you like and feel enthusiastic about 👍 Wishing you well on your exams! 🤞 And also that it all fits nicely with the nursery, for a maximum win-win 😊

    ❤️❤️

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452216
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    that is so good to hear! A feeling of self-worth emerging, a feeling that “I’m okay”. That is indeed a precious emotional experience and the one to cherish and enjoy! ❤️

    Wishing you a happy mental health day! 😊

    ❤️ 🫶 ❤️

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452207
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I am getting close to no longer discussing her. I have been gathering, thanks to your input, Tee, a 3-D understanding of her, the most powerful person in my life, the mother I was born to, or through.

    You (and we) don’t need to stop discussing her. Discussing her helped you to understand what happened to you, and why she couldn’t really give you love – love that you have been longing for such a long time. A love that you as a child (and beyond) absolutely needed and deserved. You said it so beautifully:

    I waited for her to.. love me like a mother is supposed to love her daughter. I say “supposed”- not something I read, something I instinctually needed: a place to rest. A place to rest in a mother.

    Each child has that need, that’s how our brains (and our hearts) are wired. But too many parents aren’t able to provide that safety (both physical and emotional) to their children. Too many parents are wounded children themselves, who end up hurting their children, perpetuating generational trauma. As you said:

    Just pass on the abuse, and you’d feel better, for a little while, business as usual.

    Yes, pass on the abuse, briefly feel relief from the pain… even if it’s by hurting those who love you and depend on you the most.

    Heart-breaking 😢

    Unfortunately, parents who commit those acts may rationalize it and may not think it’s a big deal, as you’ve said here:

    Nothing wrong in saying or doing anything to “A Nobody”, to “A Nothing”, to “A big Zero”, is there??? If it’s a Nobody then..

    As to the sexual abuse.. why, that’s a Nothing when done to a Nothing/ a Nobody.

    A child being a sexual object for a parent: a father (more publicity about that happening, more overtly), or a mother (less publicity, more covert, perhaps)- Think of an adult parent lonely, deprived, desiring something sexual.. and there’s no one there but the child.. the only thing there.. What do you do with the desire?

    Please don’t get me wrong: I know how WRONG it is to sexually abuse a child. Majorly Wrong.

    But to the sexually abusing “parent”.. It’s no big deal.

    But I don’t care if it’s not a big deal for them: it is a big deal, a HUGE deal, for their victims. For their innocent children who seek a safe place, and get a dungeon with dragons.

    I’m not sure if I’m hearing some bitterness in your words, a part of you almost wanting to minimize your pain because for your mother, abusing you wasn’t a big deal?

    If so, please know that abusing you WAS a big deal, and not only from your perspective as a victim, but also from every normal person’s perspective. Childhood abuse, especially childhood sexual abuse, is a big deal for every sane person with a grain of empathy. It’s not something that people just shrug their shoulders to, as in “it happens”. No. Because even if it happens, it’s horribly destructive and it should never happen.

    How to save the many thousands of children right now, this very Mon night, being the subjects of abuse, verbal, physical, sexual? WHAT CAN I DO???

    I’ve looked up childhood sexual abuse and came across some old videos of The Oprah Show, where she hosted survivors of childhood sexual abuse, including incest. And then I dag deeper, and realized that Oprah herself was abused as a child, both physically and sexually, which was one of the reasons why she started the Oprah Show: to talk about difficult human destinies and how to recover. And it seems that she contributed to passing a bill in 1993, colloquially called the Oprah bill:

    “Oprah bill” refers to the National Child Protection Act of 1993, which was informally named after Oprah Winfrey due to her instrumental role in advocating for its passage. The bill created a national database of convicted child abusers and was signed into law by President Bill Clinton in 1993.

    I don’t know much about this field, but it seems there is already a lot of help out there, there are numerous websites and initiatives to prevent child abuse. And I guess there are educational programs at schools (though I guess not implemented everywhere) about what constitutes appropriate touch, etc. So I guess awareness about it is greater than before.

    But I guess it’s still happening a lot, and it’s very insidious because it’s happening behind closed doors. And children (the victims) often don’t even have the awareness that what’s happening is wrong. And neighbors are still very unwilling to get involved.

    In one of Oprah’s videos, a victim (a man who was abused as a child, but has since recovered) said that even though the neighbors (and teachers!) saw that he was dirty and smelly, nobody said anything. People knew that his mother was “crazy”, but no one wanted to get involved.

    This didn’t happen now, it’s an old story, but still, it shows how difficult these things are, and how “institutions” can really mess up, because even his teachers didn’t notice, or chose not to notice, that he was neglected (and there were obvious, visible signs of neglect).

    Anyway, that’s a complex topic, but I think what’s important for you personally is that you’re now talking about it and understanding what happened to you, and that your mother wasn’t able to give you love.

    You’ve also realized that none of that was your fault – that the abuse wasn’t your fault – and you found compassion for that little girl who only wanted to be loved and instead received the antithesis of it.

    I think that’s truly the key in your healing. Understanding her reasons and what was in her mind is less important, although it can be important in the sense of understanding that she too was wounded. Yet, as you say, she chose to perpetuate the abuse, unlike her brother, who sought to stop it:

    The 3-D understanding of her: a good little girl trapped in the evil she experienced AND perpetuated.

    She went through a lot, and I can see that even her permanent hair loss as a child or adolescent may have contributed to her self-loathing and cutting her head off in photos. Perhaps she was bullied and humiliated due to her hair loss, which was an additional trauma.

    All of that (baldness, beatings, bullying, her father abandoning her to be with other women, which led to her becoming an orphan, etc)… might have led to an intense anger, hatred and a sense of powerlessness. And then the need to regain that power by subduing and controlling her own children. And getting a sense of self-worth by mercilessly shaming and humiliating her children.

    Plus there was sexual abuse, which we can speculate about the reasons why it happened (because it doesn’t necessarily have to be that she was molested herself). Nevertheless it happened, and perhaps that was the most insidious kind of abuse, because it wasn’t so overt, and yet it was boundary violation and trust violation. And it caused you to feel huge shame about yourself.

    All this is coming to light now, you’re realizing it, and I hope it is liberating (inasmuch it is painful too), and will gradually lead to healing. 🙏 ❤️

    So I think we can keep talking about it, if it’s helpful to you. I think it’s less important to understand what was in her mind and what her motives were (although we can speculate about it). What’s most important is that you’ve realized that it was abuse and that you started healing from it. And I hope you will continue to heal. And I’m glad I can help you in that process ❤️

    Also, as Alessa said:

    I feel like the person you have been waiting for all along is yourself. You have all of the qualities you wish for in a mother. You can give that love to yourself. That is the secret of how to feel whole and recover from the abuse of a failed parent.

    Yes! You’re the one you’ve been waiting for! I’ve heard that phrase before, and I’ve looked it up now: it’s the title of a book by Richard Schwartz (the creator of the Internal Family Systems therapy, which I respect a lot). But anyway, that’s the big wisdom and the big truth of healing ❤️

    🙏 ❤️ 🫶 ❤️ 🙏

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #452185
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    how are you feeling today? ❤️

    That was a pretty shattering revelation yesterday, and I can imagine it caused all sorts of emotions in you, including a part of you not believing that it really happened.

    I myself am quite taken aback by these new revelations. You’ve asked if it’s too much for me. It’s not too much for me to hear it and empathize with you, however I might not be necessarily able to help you process it in the best way, since I’m not a trauma therapist. So my “skills” may not be enough in this particular case.

    I’m just saying this to let you know that I would like to keep supporting you, however I wouldn’t like to cause more harm than good.

    I CAN’T BELIEVE I was BLIND for SO LONG!!!

    Dear Anita, it’s normal that we as children and beyond suppress things that were very painful, because that’s how we protect our psyche from being overwhelmed. Perhaps now you feel strong enough to take it on, to look at it, process it and start healing from it?

    It’s certainly very painful to be faced with that kind of betrayal by your own mother. There are no excuses for her behavior. The only “excuse” (which doesn’t exculpate her in any way) is that she might have been sexually abused herself as a child.

    Alessa made a good point about it:

    there is a link between people being sexually abused a young age and then going on to perform the same behaviour themselves. Of course, not everyone does. But for some people who cannot accept their abuse seek to normalize it.

    So it’s possible that she went through something similar and “acted out” on you. But of course, this doesn’t excuse her and doesn’t diminish the incredible pain that she’s caused you. Regardless of what her reasons might have been, you have been abused and hurt, and you need to go through a healing process. You need to have empathy for yourself, not her.

    I’m waiting for your input today, hoping you’re feeling not too overwhelmed and that we can continue our conversation, if you find it’s helping you at this point ❤️

    ❤️ 🙏 🫶 ❤️

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