Dear Anita,

(Copilot): “Revenge is the act of inflicting harm or punishment on someone in response to a perceived wrong, often driven by a desire for retribution or to ‘get even.’”.

It occurred to me that the way she was bathing you (scrubbing your head to the point of pain, as well as inappropriately touching you) might also have been a form of revenge and punishment for perceived (or real) humiliation that she’d experienced as a child.

It could be that she felt humiliated – not necessarily by her father abandoning her, but perhaps by what happened in the orphanage (has she shared anything about that?), or by severe beatings at the hand of her oldest sister. She might have felt not only helpless but also humiliated by that, but you said she’d never expressed anger towards her sister.

However, the intense sense of shame and humiliation (and anger) hasn’t just disappeared. And so she was expressing it to you, with whom she felt safe to express anger and to shame you as much as she pleases. So I’m thinking that this entire ritual of bathing you beyond appropriate age might have been a way to revenge for the humiliation she’d experienced as a child.

It also had sexual connotations, and so I’m wondering whether she was sexually abused (e.g. inappropriately touched) in the orphanage? Has she ever shared anything about that period of her life?

Alternatively, sexual connotations might also have to do with her obsession with sexuality, which we’ve talked about, and sort of punishing you (as a representative of all women) for “stealing” her father away. Of course, this is pure speculation, I’m just throwing some ideas around, in case it resonates…

This is why she stripped me of agency and a sense of self-worth. No agency/ No self-worth= No leaving her.

Possibly. Though she seemed not to have been too upset when you were leaving to the U.S. I actually wanted to ask you about how she reacted to your leaving. You said she was touching your hand softly before your departure, so I assumed she expressed support. But was she okay with you leaving? May I ask how she reacted later, when the marriage was annulled and you returned home for a brief period?

She didn’t strip my sister of agency the ways she did to me (dressing her etc., until an older, inappropriate age) because my sister is 6 years younger than me and by the time she was born, the mother had to work and so, she placed her in a child-care facility with other children and later in a kindergarten where her agency was not stripped. On the other hand, I never attended a kindergarten, I was with the mother all the time for 5+ years.

Oh I see. So your sister got to socialize with other children from an early age (and your mother spent less time with her during the first years of her life). Unlike with you, when she was a stay-at-home mom, and you spent your entire time with her, up to your elementary school. It seems your mother didn’t even try to establish total control over your sister like she did with you.

You said she claimed your sister was more independent, so perhaps that played a role too. But she didn’t even try, or didn’t have the opportunity to instill complete control (including physical/bodily control) over your sister. However, she clearly managed to establish emotional control over her, since your sister believed she was a whore:

An example of her violating my sister’s rights: she called her a “wh***” so many, many times. A guy who knew her (in her early 30s) told me that she told him, as in a trance, “I am a wh***! I am a wh***! I am a wh***” (again and again, as in a cry for help)

And she also did whatever your mother told her to do:

emotionally, she (said later) felt like a puppet on strings, and in some major ways (doing whatever the mother wanted her to do), her lack of agency was very evident.

So, she was emotionally “enslaved” (i.e. strongly enmeshed) with your mother, even though her body was free from your mother’s intrusions. Eventually, you left home to get some distance from your mother’s abuse. But your sister stayed and I imagine continued receiving abuse?

Copilot: “Sadism is the tendency to derive pleasure from the pain, suffering, or humiliation of others.

Sadistic Personality Disorder (SPD): Proposed in the DSM‑III‑R (1987) but later removed from official diagnostic manuals… Removed because it overlapped heavily with other disorders (e.g., Antisocial Personality Disorder) and raised concerns about excusing criminal behavior.

Lack of remorse, guilt, or empathy…. A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others…

Oh, I didn’t know there used to be a special category called Sadistic Personality Disorder in the DSM, which was later replaced by Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Yeah, sadism and APD do overlap, but they aren’t the same. APD is more typical for criminals, people who disregard rules and social norms. It can also be an obnoxious neighbor who is making noise in the middle of the night, disregarding the fact that it disturbs people who live in the same apartment building.

Whereas sadism doesn’t even need to include criminal behavior, and yet can be very hurtful. I’m thinking now that making pranks on people can also be a form of sadism – enjoying seeing when someone gets hurt physically, or embarrassed/humiliated (i.e. hurt emotionally).

And yes, your mother enjoyed when you (and others whom she’d shamed and humiliated) would get hurt emotionally, or even physically (when she would scrub your head to the point of pain, or when she would slap you on the face multiple times “till her hands hurt”).

What is getting clearer for me here, is the violation of my rights point, it never really sunk in that my sister and I had rights. And that she violated those rights repeatedly never expressing guilt or remorse to either one of us (except that one time, a bit, in regard to force feeding me as a baby).

Yes, that’s a very good observation: her disregard for and violation of your rights. By bathing you inappropriately, she was actually violating your rights (e.g. the right to bodily autonomy, or however it is called). And I believe she would have been held accountable for that – had the authorities known about it.

It occurs to me that she glorified, or at least excused criminals (both in real life and on film). Which means that she didn’t have a huge problem with criminal, antisocial behavior. It wasn’t morally objectionable to her, but she didn’t practice it so not to have problems with the law.

She also was aware that being more physically abusive with you (akin to breaking your bones) would have gotten her in trouble with the authorities. So she restrained herself – not because it was the right thing to do, but because she didn’t want to get caught.

Anyway, she definitely violated your rights, and for some of those violations, she would have been prosecuted, I believe. …

Okay, I’ve just refreshed the forums and saw your latest post. My goodness, Anita, that’s pretty serious stuff. It could have been that she would have been charged on more accounts than I thought 😕 😢

I’ll stop here for now and will continue tomorrow. I’m very sorry that all this happened to you. But also glad that, as you say, talking about it now and understanding it is bringing you liberation and healing. ❤️ 🙏

And no, it’s not too much for me. It is tough, it’s painful even to listen to (and I can imagine how painful it is to you), but I’m glad that you can look at some of those dark places and bring light and healing to them. I just hope it’s not too much for you?

❤️ 🙏 🫶 ❤️

Dear Anita,

In the past, I would have taken the “slowly” as criticism, hearing something like “You are not connecting the dots fast enough!” (with an angry tone of voice). That’s how hypersensitive I was to anything that was critical, or to something my mind twisted into criticism.

So, after noticing this a moment ago, I reread the above and I realize that indeed it is a slow process and when you used the word “slowly”, you were kindly guiding me in this process, and I know there was nothing critical in your words. And so, being guided well, I am relaxing into the process and letting go of any rushing through it.

Thanks for sharing this, Anita, and for being frank about what would have triggered you in the past. I’m glad that you didn’t see my words as criticism, because they really weren’t meant like that. By “slowly” I meant gradually, and in fact my intention wasn’t to focus on the speed of the process, but on the process itself: you connecting the dots. I chose the phrase “connecting the dots” because what you described sounded like that:

An image that came to my mind on the first reading was that of a blank piece of paper with little markings here and there, scribblings, and Tee drawing lines through blank spaces, connecting items, filling the blanks with a story, my story.

And I felt like it’s you, not me, connecting the dots. I do mention certain things and give suggestions, but then you connect it to a memory you had, or make further connections (such as that your mother’s hyper-focus on sexuality may be related to her childhood trauma around her father). So when you said that I am drawing lines through blank spaces, I feel that you are doing it, or that perhaps that I’m helping you do it 😊

Anyway, my point wasn’t the speed, but the process itself 😊 And I’m happy that you took my words as affirming and supportive, rather than criticism ❤️

Wow, Tee.. This fits well with her black and white/ all or nothing thinking. Either a woman is to hurt/ manipulate a man OR she will be hurt by him. No shades of grey.

Right. She saw relationships as a power struggle: one is dominant, the other is submissive. One is in control, the other is controlled. And I guess that’s typical for narcissistic people: there’s no mutuality and win-win in their relationships. It’s always competition, where one party is the winner and the other is the loser.

She had never spoke against her father other than to say he turned to women and alcohol. Didn’t blame him, never expressed anger at him. Her oldest sister did express anger at him, she said that she was terrified of him, that she used to accidently lose control of her bladder when she heard him approaching because he used to severely beat her up.

(She proceeded to severely beat the mother.. and then, she severely beat a few of her own children, one who was epileptic).

Except that she never exacted revenge against people she feared, like her oldest sister, or her father.

Could be that your mother suppressed her anger against her father, because she was afraid of him. Perhaps he didn’t beat her up, like he did her oldest sister, because she was too little. But she might have witnessed those beatings and started fearing him anyway. So I can imagine that feeling angry at him didn’t feel safe for her, and so she suppressed it.

But still, this anger remained in her system (she still felt betrayed and abandoned by him), and later she expressed it – freely and fully – at your father. If I understood well, your father wasn’t a bully in the sense that he would be physically abusive to her, right? So she probably felt safe to express that anger at him. Same as she felt safe to express anger at those weaker than her: her own children.

Perhaps it could be said that she freely expressed her anger at those whom she felt safe with: those weaker than herself. Perhaps she felt that your music teacher was “weaker” than her, or anybody else whom she shamed and yelled at openly:

And exacting revenge is what she did to other people as well when she exploded at them, shaming them as well, saying whatever words are likely to cause them the most pain.

Whereas with other people – perhaps more intimidating people, i.e. bullies – she didn’t dare to express anger. She might have stayed silent or treated those people carefully. Have you noticed anything like that?

Sexuality as a tool- yes, totally. I am still drawing a blank on the “threat” point.. for some reason.

I meant, she felt threatened by female sexuality, because seductive, sexy women took away her father, and also took away her husband from her. So I meant in that sense, sexuality was a threat…

Yes, very much so, Tee. Again, this is something I didn’t think about, the connection between her and revenge. Exacting revenge is what she repeatedly did (I am feeling anxious right now) every time she went about a shaming attack against me, the smile on her face when she saw the hurt on my face when a shaming word landed just.. right.

Yes, unfortunately, saying cruel, hurtful things to you was a form of revenge (for whatever perceived “offense” you were guilty of. Of course she would always find a reason, an invented reason, why you’re guilty of something, so she could punish you).

She probably felt slighted by life, by other people (both men and women, it seems to me). And she had this perpetual anger about her, which she needed to release somehow. You were unfortunately one of the “safe” people to release it on, because you were weaker than her, and she believed she could do with you whatever she pleases. So you were her punching bag, unfortunately, for releasing all that anger that was inside of her. 😕

And exacting revenge is what she did to other people as well when she exploded at them, shaming them as well, saying whatever words are likely to cause them the most pain. And after she was done, she seemed calm, or just exhausted.

She vented her anger, which I imagine like releasing some steam from the pressure cooker. And for a while she felt calm, because the internal pressure went down. But soon enough, it would build up again (because the anger was never addressed and processed), and she would seek another opportunity to release it.

The way I see it, she was perpetually angry, with occasional (or frequent) outbursts, whenever the pressure was too high and needed to be released. And she vented at people whom she felt safe with, which is you, your sister and others whom she felt are weaker than her.

I wonder if this resonates with your experience?

Dear Anita, I’ll reply to the rest hopefully tomorrow. And no, I don’t find these posts too long. I mean they are long partly because of the Copilot input, but that’s okay. This is important stuff, and I don’t mind analyzing it all. But it’s also true that we don’t need to rush to figure out everything at once 😊

You said you’re tired, sitting in front of the computer for hours. So please, go outside, go for a walk if the weather allows it, and breathe in some fresh air 😊

See you tomorrow! 😊

❤️ 🫶 ❤️

Dear Anita,

I officially withdraw my offer to climb a mountain 😂

I’m relieved to hear that! 😊 And I’m glad that Copilot agrees with me and has suggested alternative ways to strengthen your thigh muscles. But it seems you really wanted to climb that high mountain, right? (“Sadly, for me, Copilot agrees with you wholeheartedly”) I hope you’re not too disappointed about it…

Love and Acceptance for myself. Lots 😊 ❤️

Very good to hear that! ❤️

Yes, indeed, Tee knows a lot about it 😊, AND you are able to articulate and explain it all better than anyone I’ve ever come across in my whole life, a few therapists included.. and by far!

Thank you, Anita, for your kind words ❤️

Not quite. She had a terrible early childhood because of the traumatic time her family suffered when they immigrating in the early 50s to Israel, living in tents in horrible conditions they didn’t expect. Next her mother died at childbirth when she was 9, her father turned to women and alcohol. Sometime during that time, she was sent to an institution (not an official orphanage, a place for children with no one to care for them). She wasn’t “given” to her older sister, I don’t think. Nothing was organized back then. She just ended up with her oldest sister who shamed her terribly. The mother had a “good” shaming model.

Oh I see… so her mother was alive until she was 9. But then she suddenly became orphaned: first her mother “abandoned” her, then her father too. And perhaps the wound from being abandoned by her father – who instead of taking care of his children, turned to alcohol and women – was even greater than the one caused by the loss of her mother, I don’t know.

But in any case, there must have been a strong abandonment wound, and also a strong sense of worthlessness, because the child believes that it’s their fault when the parent abandons them. And then came her older sister’s shaming (and possibly poor treatment in the orphanage) on top of that.

So I can kind of understand where that sentiment to cut her head off photos came from… she must have felt unlovable and worthless. So worthless that her own father abandoned her, and she went from having a family to having no one within perhaps weeks or months.

Of course, none of that excuses her behavior with you later. Her own brother reacted differently to a similar kind of trauma. But nevertheless, I see the roots of that… and where it can lead when the person doesn’t acknowledge it (doesn’t acknowledge their own wounding), but instead starts blaming others.

Yes, I understand and I agree. Yet, what I was referring to were people who were clearly abusive to me, people who took advantage of me for their selfish advantages. In comparison to even those people, SHE was a Hurting Champion. No one “better” at it, no one more effective at delivering emotional injury.. again and again. Those emotional daggers. In a twisted way.. she deserved a medal.

Oh I see, you’re talking about people whom you knew in private, whom you were closely related to. And she was able to cause more hurt than any of those selfish people in your life…

Yeah, I can imagine that. You called her behavior vicious, and based on what you’ve shared, it definitely was. It wasn’t just a “regular” shaming, but telling you such cruel things that cut deep into our heart and soul.

In my view, one such vicious remark was telling you (when you were a small child) that she told your father that he should have sexually abused you as a baby, since he was such a womanizer. For me, that’s like the next level of cruelty and heartlessness.

She said it to punish him for cheating on her, but she didn’t have any regard for you, and how such a remark can impact a child. And I can imagine that in many other instances, as you said, she had absolutely no limits as to how hurtful, how deprived her remarks were. I can imagine she went for maximum hurt, for the worst possible impact, and she delivered it with pleasure, being satisfied that she’s hurt you so successfully. That’s already sadism…

BTW, it occurs to me now that she might have had a significant trauma from her father abandoning her for other women. And so she might have found a similar man, your father, who might have been a womanizer himself (if her allegations were true) and who, unfortunately, abandoned you and your sister after they got divorced (if I got that right?).

I apologize if I’m jumping to conclusions here, and also if this is something you don’t feel comfortable talking about… But perhaps she relived a part of her childhood trauma again with her husband? And if her trauma has never been processed, she would have been punishing her husband, being really mean to him, and telling him horrible things – to revenge for having been hurt and abandoned by her own father.

And she seems to have been punishing you too, being really mean to you, because her heart became so hardened, that she had no love in it for anyone, including herself. What remained in her heart was hatred, it seems, and this hatred was driving her to be mean to you, to cause as much hurt as possible, to become sadistic almost…

Perhaps that’s how a person becomes a “monster”? By hardening their heart to the point of hatred and revenge…

I don’t feel dissociated at all. Not the way I knew dissociation. I remember, somewhere in the U.S., I was walking and didn’t notice and before I knew it, a big truck, I mean huge, commercial truck almost ran me over. I just didn’t notice. My current ongoing lack of visual memory may be part of an ongoing dissociation.. brain damage, more likely.

Oh yes, I remember you mentioning it before: about it being pure luck that you didn’t get run over by that truck! I don’t remember if you talked about it, but you were probably upset about something, you were “beside yourself” (what an appropriate expression!), and your ability to pay attention to your surroundings was even less than usual.

I don’t think that your inability to remember certain things in your surroundings (like whether your bathroom has windows or not) necessarily indicates brain damage. It might rather point at dissociation or even preoccupation with our own internal processes, which as a result has the inability to recall things from our environment.

I used to be like that too – very bad at remembering things in my physical environment – because I was preoccupied with thinking what will people think of me, how I come across… I had this constant toxic shame about myself, and so I was focusing on myself, on my internal discomfort and anxiety. And this prevented me from actually paying attention to other people or my physical environment.

Do you feel that similar might be true for you?

I am feeling empathy, affection for little girl/ adolescent Tee.

Thank you, Anita ❤️

Those were not LUXURY flowers, those one would by in a store. … My heart was.. not luxury in her mind 😢

Oh I see… your mother was a lover of luxury, and so simple things didn’t really make her tick… And since her heart was hardened, she couldn’t receive a gift from your heart… that concept was strange for her… and so she had to reject it and even humiliate you for trying 😢 A heart of stone, unfortunately…

One of the most difficult memories for me was when she held my hand (I was mid/ later 20s) on the way to the airport where I was to fly (alone) to the U.S.). She placed her soft, warm hand on mine.. and I wanted to exit my skin, exit my body so to not feel that softness, that warmth.. It felt intense, very intensely negative. Any idea what that was about, Tee?

I guess you knew that her seemingly loving, caring and supportive touch is none of that. You knew her true self, and that her touch was insincere. Unless she was supportive of you going to the U.S. (because it was linked to her dream of becoming rich?), and so in that brief moment, that touch was to express support for you?

Again, never crossed my mind, but since you mentioned it, yes, he wanted to cause a scene. He knew of the mother being aggressive. Generally, yes, he was a trouble maker in school.

Okay, so she was known as aggressive and perhaps someone who can be easily provoked? Perhaps there were instances in the past where she “defended” you? Perhaps against his bullying, or another kid’s bullying? So he knew that she would likely be provoked this time too, and so he didn’t want to miss that scene…

But yeah, her defense of you was most likely her ego being hurt by public humiliation. And so she lashed out at the teacher, to restore her “good name.” Something like that. She didn’t care about you, and your feelings being hurt, but about herself and her feelings…

Maybe the teacher felt guilty. As to consequences for calling me “auntie”- from the principle or so- I doubt it. There was no protect-the-child policy .. Unless you break the child’s bones, literally 😞

Oh I see – so it was allowed to shame pupils – no one cared and no one would get sanctioned. Yes, I guess those were different times, where children were treated much more harshly both by their parents and their teachers. Nowadays, at least the standards for the teachers have changed…

No Heart= still human?

Yes, heartless human. Or better say, a human whose heart has turned to stone. I believe the person could still choose to unlock their heart, but their defenses stop them. But the heart – the ability to love – still exists somewhere underneath those layers of defenses. At least that’s how I see it…

Never a meeting of the minds.

Or a meeting of the hearts rather? Her heart was closed, turned to stone.. and it couldn’t receive you.

She was a stranger to you, because she refused to see you and receive you. And to be seen and received in her vulnerability, her humanity…

At the same time, she was more than a stranger, because a stranger might be neutral towards you, whereas your mother wasn’t. She was unfortunately against you – because she needed to prop herself up. She was against you, as a defense mechanism. But nevertheless, her defense mechanism caused you a great deal of harm.

I know it’s hard to navigate this, Anita. I’m just offering my perspective, hoping that it helps somewhat…. I’m glad you seem to be healing from some of it… 🤞 ❤️ 🙏

❤️ 🫶 ❤️

Dear Anita,

“Turn around and look at what you see”- Turning around, I see… I see the Hope for a New Story.

A story breaking away from the old story.

So happy to hear that! ❤️

Another inspiring verse from the song:

In your hands
The birth of the new day

A new day, free from the false narrative, embracing the truth of who you really are, not who you mother conditioned you to believe you are… I’m happy that you’re seeing the prospects of that new day and the new story unfolding before you ❤️

The word “slave” is sinking in, strangely the word never occurred to me until you brought it up.

I just thought slave as in you were her possession, she did with you as she pleased…

She never expressed to me any concern for the fetus-me not being adequately fed, nor did she express anyone else voicing such a concern to her. You are the first person in MY WHOLE LIFE to bring up this concern!

I guess I’m not surprised that she hasn’t expressed any concern for you either as a fetus, or as a baby or beyond (specially not something that would indicate a mistake on her part, a lack of care for you). But I’m sorry that no one else mentioned anything, or at least not that you know about it, e.g. your father, or perhaps one of her sisters (although it would be no surprise if her older sister, the one who abused her, didn’t show any concern…).

I guess she grew up in very deprived conditions, with no maternal (or paternal) care. Her older sister – who became her caretaker after the orphanage period (if I remember well) abused her, so again, she received no care and empathy there either.

And so she didn’t have it in her: she didn’t have the capacity for empathy, neither towards herself (which is visible from starving and hating her own body), nor towards others, including her own children.

My intention is not to reject a compliment, but truly it was not a feat at all. I mean, really, sincerely, I am sure of it. Not only there was no comfort in the zone.. it was not even familiar. There was nothing at all in her behavior that I could rely on. She could have exploded at any time in a very scary way. Although it happened too often, it never got to be “familiar”.. no comfort in predictability, not to any extent.

Oh I see, there was no predictability and no comfort in any aspect of your relationship with your mother. There was nothing to hold on, so to speak, nothing safe. So for you, venturing out to the US wasn’t such a scary idea at all.

I believe a part of it may be that you were a bit dissociated, so you didn’t even think of what might go wrong – you just bought the ticket and off you went, hoping for something better, better than what you had at home, I guess?

She shot daggers of shame from her eyes to my heart, a big ouch every time.

Yep, that’s familiar… 🙁

“And you sank into depression, and soon saw to annul the marriage..”- I did sink into depression. He came up with the annulment.

Oh okay. Yes, you said that after she went home (and already during her stay), you felt horrible and fell into despair. You left NYC (and I guess your new husband) and flew to New Orleans, “for no particular reason other than hoping for a relief.” And you stayed there for a while. I guess that’s when he decided to ask for annulment, right?

Right. She wasn’t pleased when I sent her ALL the money I had at one point, 17,000 dollars (decades ago). After a couple of years she sent it back to me because she said it wasn’t enough. (Your thoughts, Tee?)

Yeah, unfortunately another proof that you could never please her, that you’re never enough, no matter what you do.

A covert narcissistic mother cannot really accept gifts – she cannot accept an honest gift from your heart – I think because she would need to open her heart and receive your love (a gift being an expression of your love). And she cannot do that: she has to believe that you don’t love her and that it’s only her who loves you. In her twisted mind, she is the one who gives, who loves, while you are the faulty one, the undeserving one, whom she nevertheless “loves” and provides for.

She gives, you receive, because she believes you’re unable to give, you have nothing to give. That’s I think the twisted reasoning behind the covert narcissistic mother rejecting our gifts. Not sure it’s true, but it might be…

This makes me feel like I am not alone, like I was never alone 🙂 (even though it felt like it). Don’t get me wrong, I wish you didn’t experience any part of what I did. It’s just that I no longer feel alone in that experience.

I’m glad my experience is helping you ❤️ It took me years to understand this dynamic, it was so insidious. I’ve only started to understand in the last couple of years… Aah, I feel heavy just thinking about it. But okay, it’s much easier once you understand it and don’t fall for their pity party to easily…

Yes.. EXACTLY. You understand me so very well. Thank you! (I felt stupid for missing something so obvious)

That’s because I’ve experienced such situations, not in interpersonal relationships, but in everyday life, when I start catastrophizing and thinking of the worse, when there could be a number of other, more benign reasons why something is happening. But fear blinds us to other, more trivial or more benign possibilities, and we only imagine the worst.

Yes, I believed her. She was quite convincing. Even adults (like in the elementary school setting) did not challenge her. She stopped shaming and threatening the music teacher only when she ran out of steam, only when she exhausted herself.

Wow, that’s bad that no one even tried to tell her to calm down. They just took their yelling and screaming without saying a word. What was it that she was upset about? Maybe there was some truth in what she was saying (and that’s why the music teacher felt intimidated?), but the way she was saying it was completely inappropriate.

But it can also be that many decent people don’t know how to react in such situations (when they are verbally attacked), and they are kind of shocked and taken aback, and can only gather their thoughts later.

“Because you believed her threats and you felt bound, even paralyzed, by fear..”- she pointed to her wrists, showing me where she would make the cut, with a knife.

Oh that’s horrible. I think that’s an example of coercive control, which Copilot mentioned in its analysis. She controlled your behavior by threatening to kill herself. She forced you to behave in a certain way by threatening suicide… appalling 😕

I read in the other thread that your back is doing better, but you are having problems with your knees, but you’ve got a plan. My best wishes are for you, Tee.

Thank you, Anita ❤️

Like I said before, I’d climb a very, very tall mountain if it’d take your pain a way.

Magical thinking, I know.. but I would climb a mountain for you!!!

That’s sweet of you to say, but I suggest you better spare your knees – you want to have them working smoothly for decades to come 🙂 But thank you anyway, you’re a sweetheart ❤️

❤️ 🫶 ❤️

Hi Alessa,

my back is doing better, thanks for asking. Now it’s back to business-as-usual, which is problems with my knee. But I’ve got a plan for that and am not despairing, so it’s okay for the time being 😊 🙏

The hopes are that he will be able to go to the nursery near our home. That way I’d be able to change him if needed. My preference is half days anyway, so we’ll see what can be done.

Oh good, so you’ll be at home and available if he needs to be changed. Neat! And it will ease your anxiety a great deal… I’m rooting that it all works out well!

I don’t know, what causes the anxiety. It happens when I get very stressed. And in time it passes. I feel motivated to talk about things when I’m anxious and less so when I’m not. If that makes sense?

Yes, it does make sense. I can think of two situations when we want to talk things through when anxious: 1) we feel anxious about something and then we vent to a trusted friend, just so to get it off our chest and perhaps get their perspective on the issue, or 2) we feel anxious because of another person’s actions (or lack thereof), and we feel the need to talk things through with them, so they would change their behavior.

I guess the question to ask yourself is what causes you stress, and whether it’s something that is in your control (and you can do something about it), or it’s something that another person is doing, and you can try to influence them but they might not be receptive. Or whether it’s simply the circumstances, a situation that you don’t like, and you need to accept it/navigate it.

Anyway, I guess the first would be to become aware of what exactly is causing you stress, and whether you can do something about it or not. That usually helps reduce anxiety too, because if we can do something about it, we feel less helpless and powerless about it…

I kind of have a pattern like that for a lot of things though. I noticed when I was studying today that I totally lost interest when I finished the fun part. I was like ooooh leave the boring paperwork for later, let’s look for another fun part.

Haha, yes, that’s kind of typical… we don’t want the boring part, just what’s fun and exciting 😊 Good that you’re enjoying your studies though (or at least a part of them) and are having fun with it!

Keep up the good work! And you take care of yourself too! ❤️❤️

Dear Anita,

I’m happy to read that you’re gaining more and more clarity regarding covert narcissism, and that you won’t allow yourself to be gaslighted anymore:

And in this new/ fuller understanding- in the context of my mother-myself- I peel off all guilt, all shame. It’s not mine to carry. It’s a testament to human resilience that I survived all this.. enough to get to this point of healing.

There was a lot of gaslighting the mother did to LGA, creating a lot of self-doubt, doubting reality, doubting everything. I (AA) will not continue the mother’s job. No more doubting what’s been real.

Great! Yes, covert narcissism is very tricky – it presents very differently than grandiose narcissism. They’re not the bragging and self-aggrandizing type, which people usually associate with narcissism, but almost the opposite: the meek, shy, self-deprecating (at least in public).

At home they’re not meek and shy at all, but they nevertheless play the victim and guilt-trip those who love them (I almost wrote “their loved ones”, but you corrected me last time: it’s the people who love them – not whom they love).

yes, this is my job, AA’s job. It is time for LGA to be finally, fully validated, cared for, protected and respected.

Yes!!! So good to hear this! 🎉 (this is supposed to be confetti emoji – hope it turns out well when I post it:) ) ❤️

I don’t think she inserted her fingers.. well, not deeply.. just some as to clean me thoroughly, the same way she inserted her fingers into my scalp so to clean it thoroughly. I still remember the feel of her fingers in my scalp, dogging forcefully. I remember thinking, why is she doing this.. I mean, it was really painful and it lasted a long time.

Well, I’m not a mother, but I think the only time when it’s appropriate for a parent to touch their child’s genitals is when they’re a baby or a toddler and they’re changing their diapers or bathing them. I read somewhere that when the child can go to the toilet on their own, that’s when they can be entrusted to clean their private parts themselves. Here’s an answer that I found:

At what age should a child clean themselves? This can vary greatly from child to child. By about 5 they should be fully toilet trained including correct wiping and washing hands, many children can go by about 3-to 3.5 yrs, however they don’t usually wipe and wash properly until about 5 or 6.

So if your mother was bathing you say at the age of 7 or 8 or 10, and she was touching your genitals so as to clean them, I think that’s inappropriate. A good mother would teach the child how to do it themselves. You didn’t like it, you instinctively felt it was wrong, but as a child, you of course didn’t ask other children if that was normal. And so you endured it, although it felt uncomfortable.

She projected her shame into me and cleansed herself by proxy.

Yes, very likely!

Yes, she did a whole lot of humiliating and devaluing almost everyone, mostly indirectly, by gossiping about them, and sometimes directly. it was vicious. So, it’s only now, in this reply, that I realize this point, Tee. Thank you!

You’re welcome, Anita. Yes, that’s the modus operandi of a narcissist: put another person down, so to feel better about themselves. If your mother had the need to devalue almost everybody, that shows her narcissistic traits were pretty strong, I think.

Coming too think about it, she once expressed genuine guilt over force feeding me. The only time I could clearly see empathy in her tone of voice, empathy that I trusted in that moment of revelation.

Which brings me to this thought: she was okay with me and my sister as babies.. so it’s empathy for a baby me.. limited to that age..?

Honestly, I don’t think she had empathy for you. If she had any, she wouldn’t have initiated vomiting (bulimia) when she was pregnant with you (if that’s what happened). But in theory, it’s possible that a narcissistic parent develops jealousy and hostility for their children only later, typically when they start showing some independence and a will of their own. That can be as late as puberty, but also much earlier too.

A child at age 2-3 starts saying No a lot, they show resistance to the parent, which is a normal part of child’s development. And I can imagine that when a narcissistic parent starts hearing No, they get really angry and triggered. Maybe that’s when they start showing open hostility towards the child, I don’t know… But I can imagine that any display of independence – in the sense of not following parental commands – may be triggering for a narcissistic parent.

And yes, her behaviors do constitute sexual abuse. I remember in my late 20s, I read about sexual abuse and realized I display most or all of the symptoms. I asked her on the phone if my father sexually abused me (in my first 5-6 years when he was living there) and she said No. I didn’t realize at the time that a mother can sexually abuse her daughter in ways that are not as overt.

* Growing up, I heard a lot of sexualized talk about my father cheating on her, part of her loud fighting with him, part of her talking to her sisters and directly to me. One of those moments I remember- she told me that she told him that, being that his choice was women much younger than him, he might choose his own daughter (a baby at the time) for sex.

This is telling on more levels: first, the fact the you even dared to ask your mother if your father sexually abused you shows (I believe) that your mother was talking poorly about him all the time, and so you weren’t afraid of asking such a… well, pretty damning question.

Also, the fact that she told you she made such a horrible remark to him: that he might as well sexually assault his own daughter (baby at the time) if he is interested in young women – that’s horrendous: both what she told him, but also that she later told you about it.

You called her vicious, and the above is I’m afraid an example of that viciousness. I guess she said that to hurt him – to hurt him deeply, to cause as much pain as possible. And then she told you about it later (do you remember how old were you at the time?), as if bragging about how much she’d hurt him, making sure you know how much she hates him. At least that’s how I would interpret her words…

Narcissistic people can say really hurtful things, things that can feel like a dagger to our heart. And if it comes from our own mother, the pain is enormous. I’ve experienced hurtful remarks from my mother too, but they weren’t as hurtful as this.

I’m so sorry about it, Anita. Please give yourself a hug, and I too am giving you a virtual hug ❤️

Give LGA a hug to protect her from your mother’s malicious words. Perhaps you can imagine an umbrella or a shield that protects you from those words. Or perhaps you can imagine yourself in a protective bubble, an oasis filled with butterflies and flowers and singing birds… something soothing and innocent, as opposed to harsh and cruel that you’ve received from your mother.

I hope this wasn’t too upsetting for you… and that you can keep taking care of yourself, every day, little by little, being there for yourself and LGA as you walk this path towards healing. ❤️

Truly you are helping me A LOT. It took my attitude changing in the last few months- from Suspicion & Distrust (of you, and people in general) to Trusting you- a trust you well deserve- for me to open myself to your valuable input and to let it in.

I’m glad that you’ve become more trusting towards people, and also towards me. Your previous attitude of suspicion and distrust is understandable – since your mother was like that towards other people, and she taught you to be like that too. And also, since you’ve received mostly abuse from her, you were conditioned to expect abuse from other people too. I’m glad that this is now changing and that you’re slowly opening up ❤️ 🫶 ❤️

I’ll reply to the rest a bit later…

Have a nice Sunday! 😊

oops, error in formatting, italic in the second part isn’t intentional…

Dear Anita,

wow, that was another powerful corrective exercise! It seems LGA is slowly starting to realize that her mother didn’t wish her well, on the contrary, that she was her enemy (She’s not my friend. She’s been my biggest enemy ever.)

I am touched by the conversation you had with LGA, and that you offered to be LGA’s mother, who will care for her, protect her and respect her, and let her Be.

Your mother was a seriously troubled woman, who abused you in every possible way. The way she was bathing you – by inserting her fingers into your bodily openings, including your private parts, I believe constitutes sexual abuse. She had no business getting anywhere close to your private parts, let alone inserting her fingers into you! That alone was a crime, for which she should have been taken to court and the child taken away from her.

I am angry that this was happening, and that there was no one to stop her. I hope this isn’t insensitive to ask, but have you ever spoken to your sister about the way your mother was bathing you? Has she experienced something similar?

She scrubbed me like I was dirty, impure. And her words made it clear: that I am dirty in each and every way.

Yes, unfortunately 🙁 To her, you were dirty and bad and needed “cleansing”, whereas she (in her mind) was pure and good. In reality, she had a dirty, distorted mind (and tongue), and yet she saw you as dirty and distorted.

when I was in my early 20s and did have a date, she waited for me to return at night, angry, and she said: “You are with him because he has (male organ), and I don’t?”

What do you think of that sentence, Tee? I never quite understood it, but it was one of the many traumatizing moments. I never received anyone’s thoughts about what this sentence- question means.. ownership? ..?

Yes, I think she wanted to own you completely, so you would be completely under her control. A man in your life would take that dominion away from her. I think she wanted total power and control over you. She saw you as her “property”, and she didn’t want to lose that control over you.

Yes, drowned in despair but not quite.. my mother rose above her despair in a way, rose above it so to use it as a weapon, hence the shaming, the guilt-tripping, the violence.

Yes, she found “power” by subduing someone who was weaker and more fragile than her: her children.

Actually, it could be that she felt so powerless in her life (her inner child feeling like that), that she needed to have one person (or two people: her children) to control, so she would feel better about herself. By dominating and controlling you, she had a sense of power and control in her life. By humiliating you and telling you that you’re worthless, she had a false sense of worth, feeling that she is better than you.

So by putting you down, she felt a little better about herself (or rather, she hated herself a little less). By subduing you, she felt a little less powerless. At least that’s my theory…

But in any case, it’s horrendous what kind of “mother” she was. She was your torturer, your private Nazi, as you call her. And it is time that you free yourself from the trauma she inflicted upon you. You deserve to be free, Anita, and I’m happy that you’ve started on your healing journey. ❤️

I’ll reply to the rest tomorrow. But thank you for your kind words – I am happy I can help, and also that you feel heard and validated. You truly deserve it. You deserve healing, and I hope that slowly but surely, it is happening ❤️ 🫶 ❤️