Dear Anita,

Grateful for your message 🙏 🙏 🙏

you’re very welcome!

Yes, it did. Problem was I kept going back to her, flying across the world to see her and be with her which killed my joy every time. So, going back to the U.S., eventually, was not joyful anymore.

Every visit with her was retraumatized me, and every return to the U.S. took longer and longer to recover from time until there was no recovery (many years of depression). My healing process started in 2011. Shortly after I started therapy back then I ended contact with her, no more visits.

Good that you stopped those visits.. if each visit made you more and more depressed, if it killed the joy in you, then of course it’s better to stay away. The problem is – and you know it too – that even if we move thousands of miles away from our abusive parents, the emotional bond is still there. We’re still enmeshed with them, we want them to love us, our sense of self-worth still depends on how they see us…

Sometimes no physical contact doesn’t mean no emotional attachment. Not at all. But of course, it’s easier to let go of that toxic emotional bond if we stop visiting the toxic parent and stop getting more of the same abuse. As you said, it only retraumatized you.

However, the problem is that your emotional attachment to your mother still remained. Your inner child still wants her to love you. You still need her love and validation in order to feel lovable and worthy… And that’s a trap.

The goal of healing is to start feeling lovable and worthy even if our parents weren’t able and will never be able to give us what we need, i.e. to meet our basic emotional needs. They gave us physical life, but many of them were not able to give us emotional nurturing, which is a precondition for a healthy personal development.

So we’re stunted in development, basically, because some basic building blocks are missing. But the good news is that we can make up for what’s missing by getting those basic emotional needs met later in our lives. It’s never too late for that…

But to return to your question about your mother:

Why can’t she see me, Tee? Why can’t she hear me?

Because she herself was/is a wounded, traumatized child. She never received love and care during her childhood, and someone “seeing” her and appreciating her. And so she couldn’t give that to you either. She parented you from her wounds and defenses, rather than her true self.

And, which is also important – she never stopped to ask herself: “why, there must be a better way to live. There must be something I can do to help myself. Perhaps if I change, I could have a better life. Perhaps I am contributing to my own suffering”.

That’s something a person with narcissistic traits never does. And so she didn’t either. In her mind, it was you who were making her life miserable – it wasn’t anything that she did. She saw you responsible for her internal terror. She had no awareness of her own wounds, her own trauma, nor was she interested in learning about that. Instead, she projected the badness on you, blaming you for causing her pain and suffering.

You were an innocent, precious little girl, whom she unfortunately used as her punching bag, as a way for her to relieve her internal tensions and keep deluding herself that she is not the problem.

I think that’s what happened, Anita. She was someone with a lot of unresolved mental health issues, and as such, she was totally inadequate to be a parent. But she still became a parent and had two beautiful children, whom she didn’t know how to parent. You two became the victims of her untreated mental health problems.

That’s what I believe happened. I wonder how you feel when reading this?

Oh my God, Tee.. I am speechless. You’re happy about me opening my heart and mind, happy about where we’re now?

Of course I’m happy 🫶 It’s a good feeling to be able to talk to someone honestly, with an open heart, with vulnerability, and see that openness in the other person too. And I’m very happy that our interaction took this turn… it’s definitely something I cherish ❤️

P.S. I like our 🙂s too 😊

Dear Anita,

You’re welcome!

I lived in a prison, life put on hold for a later time when it’d be allowed. There were times though, I remember, I was an older teenager or in my early 20s, still living with her, that I exploded with laughter, genuine laughter, a long-awaiting joy.. never when with her alone. Moments of feeling positively alive. A breath of fresh air.

Good to hear that, Anita! It means she didn’t manage to kill all the joy in you. There was still life in you, and it would bubble up sometimes, when you were alone, when she couldn’t see you or hear you. And perhaps that life was what motivated you to move across the world from your mother and seek happiness there? In a new, far-away place where her abuse cannot reach you?

yes, my analysis (and I am feeling confident about it), she suffered from- and inflicted suffering- from this combo of personality disorders: Narcissistic, Histrionic, Paranoid, Borderline and Obsessive- Compulsive.

Yes, that’s tough. What’s hard about it that she seemed to have been functional otherwise, i.e. she didn’t seem like someone with mental health issues on the outside, right? I mean, she could pretend in front of other people that she is a kind, caring person, and a kind, caring mother, right? (except for what the neighbors heard sometimes…). You said she was “soft-spoken, nice” with your uncle, for example.

And that’s I guess the narcissistic part: where the person can pretend to be certain way, which is socially acceptable. Where they can keep a certain public image, which is totally different than how they are in private.

So it was only you (and I guess your sister) who knew how your mother actually is. I know you’ve talked about your sister before, but I don’t remember if your mother treated you two differently? Was she equally harsh and abusive to your sister too?

I clearly remember her sitting to his right when he asked me a question about me, looking at me threateningly, with that mild smile on her face. That’s why I didn’t answer him. I said something polite, but didn’t answer.

Right. You knew you weren’t allowed to say anything that would be “unacceptable” to her, which probably meant anything genuine about yourself. She had a mild expression on her face, but you knew how she is underneath… and so of course, you didn’t dare to be honest with your uncle.

Thank you for sharing about parallels or similarities in your life, your process. It makes me feel like I am not alone.

You’re welcome, Anita, you’re definitely not alone. ❤️ There are a lot of similarities in how we were brought up, even though it was harder for you. But mine too is a decades-long battle, years and years of working on myself and gradually healing. And there are still blocks that I’m working on, although things are getting better…

this made me smile just now. Of course.. Tee and Inner Child healing go together like peas and carrots 🙂

(I just got scared that you’d be offended by this culinary saying.. it’s a saying I like to use).

Hehe, yes 🙂 Actually I wanted to put a smiley at the end of that sentence (“And of course, my answer is always: healing the inner child..“). So no offense here at all, healing the inner child is my go-to answer for most big problems 🙂

I trust you enough to invite you to talk to my inner child directly. I have never invited anyone to do that. I know you will be gentle with her (there are tears in my eyes as I am typing this). She can’t handle criticism.. she shouldn’t (that’s my job, the adult me, to hold myself accountable. Not her job).

No one outside of me ever spoke to her, or had a conversation with her. Please do talk to her.

Actually I didn’t think to talk to your inner child directly. I thought you would do that… I just wanted to notice that it seems your inner child is still looking for validation from your mother (based on your post on Oct 10, 12:45pm). The little girl Anita believes she is bad and she wants her mother to love her and tell her she is not bad:

I hate being bad. I don’t want to be bad. Help me, help me be good.

Sounded so true, 100% true.. Am I BAD.. Make HER say I am not bad. Make her say I am not…

The little girl Anita is still looking for something (love and validation) from her mother – which unfortunately she most likely won’t receive. Her mother (your mother) doesn’t seem to be capable of that.

I can imagine that looking for validation from your mother is what might be keeping you stuck in the feeling of “not good enough”, the feeling of worthlessness, “badness”.

You’d need to release that longing and “radically accept” that you cannot get it from your mother. That she just isn’t capable of giving it to you. And that it doesn’t make you a bad person, or a bad daughter.

I wonder how this sounds to you?

Thank you for your grace, nothing that I (the adult) deserved, but something you offered anyway. This is the nobility of your character ❤️.

Well, you did apologize for what happened in the past and have opened yourself up to a different perspective. That’s why we can now talk to each other ❤️ So it’s not quite true that it’s nothing you’ve done. You’ve changed your attitude, you’ve opened your heart and your mind – and here we’re now. And I’m very happy about it ❤️

Dear James,

Humans are virus meaning is not as body, but as who thinks they are separate then other things.

I agree with this, James. If we think we’re separate from other beings and from mother nature, that leads to huge problems, such as exploitation, destruction of the habitats, pollution… nowadays we’re experiencing the consequences of climate change more and more. And as Roberta said, the Western man has the infamous history of colonization, looking down at and exterminating indigenous populations, pillaging their resources… all very painful points for our “civilization”.

So I agree, there can be great darkness in humans, great cruelty and lack of understanding. At the same time there can be great light too…

Moreover, doctor can save a pet yet and kill it at the same time, like animals. Such as, cat can Save a kid from attack of dog, yet crocodile or shark can kill a human being.

Yes, the animal kingdom has its own rules. Sometimes the animal that is weaker or wounded is the one that gets eaten by a predator. Sometimes nature can be cruel, even as it can be magnificent and soothing. But it is all well, it is according to the laws of nature.

However, we humans should show more mercy, much more mercy towards our fellow human beings, as well as animals and plants too. There’s a saying “Homo homini lupus”. We shouldn’t behave like predators to each other. But unfortunately, we know examples from history and even the present day when this is not the case… where people do behave like predators to each other. And that to me is horrifying 🙁

That’s why realization is important, body and mind are one with universe. İf there is no water, body dies, if there is no air body dies, etc…

I agree – we’re one with the universe. We depend on Mother Earth’s resources for our sustenance. We depend on the Sun too, without which everything on Earth would die. We are so fragile, so small under the stars… and yet, our hearts can be huge and full of love… if we understand, if we connect to who we really are ❤️

Dear Roberta,

What animals don’t have though is self-awareness. You said it yourself

Is that really true?

You’re right Roberta, there are animals with very high intelligence, such as dolphins, elephants, horses, whales… And also there are many domesticated animals, such as dogs, even cats, who commune (and have loyalty and feelings) for people who care for them.

What you’ve shared is a very heart-warming story:

I have seen cat come & say goodbye to each member of our meditation group & he also visited others in the area that had looked after him at one time or another. our stories matched up on how he acted with each of us & this was just days before he died & yet he had not visited me in the previous year.

So perhaps animals, or some animals, do have a soul. Perhaps even some form of self-awareness, I don’t know. But I believe we have a different kind of self-awareness, the kind which allows us to observe ourselves, self-reflect and transcend our limitations. I don’t think that’s comparable to animals.

Anyway, my point was not in degrading animals and elevating humans, but just in saying that human mind is not necessarily the source of evil, even though it could be, if we get stuck in selfish, ego ways.

Dear Anita,

I like your honesty about your thoughts process while writing your previous post to me.

You’ve shared that you felt uneasy about how I would react to your greeting, or how I would react to you not understanding or not agreeing with what I said about the protector part. You’ve also shared that there’s a still a slight fear in you about me potentially shaming you:

So, yes, hypervigilant, afraid to say-not say- feel-not feel-think.. wrong. I noticed much improvement in this regard in the last year or two. But today, these scared, hypervigilant thoughts occurred because I felt helped by you, I felt a softening.. being on the receiving end of something good.. But being on the receiving end means being afraid of receiving something bad.

But what do I really have to fear with you, Tee..? You won’t hit me (no hand coming out of the computer screen to punch me), and no.. you will not shame me, I am quite sure of it (I typed “quite” because I am not absolutely sure). But.. no, you won’t shame me for being vulnerable here.

It’s good that you notice those thoughts and feelings and can speak openly about them. And I can assure you I won’t shame you, Anita. There’s nothing to be ashamed of in you openly sharing how you’re feeling and what your fears might still be regarding our communication. I appreciate your honesty 🫶

Probably your hypervigilance stems from your mother, who you say would attack you for just about anything you said (or didn’t say), even for your facial expressions:

I never knew what would make my mother (I’d like to refer to her as M) angry at me. It could be anything, I had no way of knowing. Could be a word I said, a word I didn’t say, an expression on my face, could be a thought she said I had which I didn’t have. She’d tell me what I was thinking (theme: thoughts about hurting her feelings) and when I tried to assure her that I wasn’t thinking that, she’d passionately argue that I was planning to hurt her feelings.. weeks or months in advance.. and no way to convince her otherwise.

And every time I was thinking wrong (so she said), saying wrong, not saying right, etc., there was hell to pay: long, elaborate sessions of shaming (the most painful), guilt-tripping and at least some of the times, hitting. She’d stop only when she was physically exhausted, not before.

“To be or not to be?”- not to be was what pleased her.

So you weren’t allowed to express yourself, to simply be, be a child, expressing yourself, laughing, crying, playing, talking to your mother…. None of that was allowed, because of your mother’s severe mental health problems, it seems.

You were exposed to both physical and psychological abuse, and you had no one to help you, since your father left when you were six, while people from the neighborhood didn’t react (it wasn’t socially acceptable to “poke one’s nose” in other people’s child rearing).

You had a good uncle (you said he asked you once something about yourself – he was interesting in getting to know you), but I guess he didn’t know about the extent of the abuse that you were suffering?

I’m very sorry, Anita, for you truly where all alone in those horrible circumstances, left to your own devices to manage the best you can. To survive, basically.

And you did survive, but or course, the trauma remained and it’s still affecting you to some extent. (Just to say that my C-PTSD is still present too. I still have parts of my life where I’m lead by fear and am having a hard time making a breakthrough. So it can be a decades-long process, unfortunately.)

So the question is how to heal. And of course, my answer is always: healing the inner child…

You’ve shared parts of your internal dialogue in your own thread (“A Personal Reckoning”), where you did the inner child exercise. You’ve shared what your inner child said, and also what some other parts said, including your adult self.

I might have some remarks about that, but I’m not sure if I should comment on it, since you said you want only witnessing, not advice or analysis?

So I’m refraining from that, unless you’re comfortable with me giving you feedback. I’ll respect that.

And again, Tee, I regret the pain I caused you. I never want this to happen again, and it will not. I promise!

It’s okay, Anita. I’m happy that you could step back from your own pain and see a bigger picture. I’m happy you’re open to self-reflection and personal reckoning, as you said.

I think you’re doing a great job in being brave and open with all of your feelings. I think it means you’re developing compassion for yourself, which is the key in healing. It’s really good to talk to you and share in your healing process ❤️

Hi dear Anita 😊

Thank you for saying this because it makes me think, go back in time, and what I remember is that I was too weak, too devastated to think that I could possibly prove her wrong. She was too dominant, too loud, dominating. It was all her, no me. I was sickeningly submissive to her.. was physically there, but no agency.

Right, I remember you said you let her clothe you and bathe you even in your teenage years. And now you say you let her hit you till you were in your early 20s. I’d say I wasn’t that resigned/subdued/helpless physically, however I felt like that emotionally and mentally, because I believed her criticism of me, her view of me (that I was worthless, not good enough, even a creep).

My attempts to resist her qualifications of me – at least those that I am consciously aware of – only started in my early 30s, when I started working on myself and became interested in personal growth. That’s when I became aware of a voice inside of my mind that is rebellious towards my mother and wants to prove her wrong.

There was a certain spite in that voice (“I’ll show you, just you wait!”). I was dreaming of doing something big, becoming very successful – there was a lot of grandeur in that voice. I remember you too said you were dreaming of becoming a world renowned dancer or performer, right?

That part of me belonged to my ego, and it tried to compensate for my feelings of worthlessness. So it had to achieve something extraordinary, something that figuratively speaking the entire world would get to see and admire. (I guess I had that drive in me since my early 20s, after finishing school and joining the workforce, but I only became aware of it in my early 30s, after starting working on myself and understanding my psychology).

I don’t remember trying to prove her wrong.. no, wait, I did try to defend myself against her accusations but she punished me for any effort to defend myself, every defense on my part was met with escalated offense.

Right, you were punished for trying to defend yourself and prove that you didn’t mean anything bad. And so you’ve realized after a while that there is no point in trying to defend yourself, because it will only make things worse. But the anger remained in you. You said you sometimes did give her an angry stare, right? Perhaps that was the only outward expression of anger that you sometimes dared to express?

This is true later in life. I suppose the “protector” part of me died early on, and then, many years later, resurrected.

Hmm, I don’t think it died. Your anger remained in you, as well as your impulse to defend yourself, to prove that you’re not a bad person. But it was suppressed, at least in front of your mother. Perhaps later, when you moved far away from your mother, this anger got more room to be expressed? Or perhaps therapy was the first time you allowed to express it?

You did start consciously expressing your anger – giving it voice – here on the forums, in your own threads. You gave yourself permission to express anger towards your mother, and you said it felt good to do it.

But my impression is that this anger then got stuck – because a part of you (your inner child) still didn’t feel good enough. A part of you still believed your mother, even if another part – your adult self – stopped believing her. As a result, you still had the need to prove that you’re not bad, and you would get angry if you perceived that someone believes you’re bad.

In other words, your angry protector part felt the need to protect you from your mother’s unfair accusations – because a part of you still believed them. At least that’s my impression of what was going on here on the forums, in some of the exchanges.

To use your own words, in the past you went “belly up” when faced with abuse (real abuse). And now, you chose to defend yourself – but from the angry protector part – when faced with real or perceived abuse.

Let me know if this sounds true?

Thank you, Tee, ❤️ back to you.

I hope this is not too heavy for you..?

You’re welcome, Anita ❤️ And no, it’s not heavy for me at all. I like to talk about and better understand our psychological defenses (both mine and those of other people), and so I’m happy that we can have this conversation. 🙏 I hope it is not heavy for you though? If it is, let me know…

Hi Alessa,

good to hear from you again! I hope you’ve recovered a little after the loss of your beloved dog ❤️

Yes, I’m a fan of do unto others as well. 😊 I think people have a lot of difficulty with love thy neighbour too, possibly because they have difficulties with loving themselves?

Yes, you’re really super caring with others, at least this is what I’m witnessing on this forum ❤️ And yes, I believe whenever people are harsh and uncaring towards others, that’s because they have a problem loving themselves…

Trauma does make things complicated. One of the hardest things is that once the experience is over it still continues in the mind.

I do have boundaries and stand up for myself. It is just that I don’t try as hard for myself as for other people. Boundaries and standing up for myself is a bare minimum. As you suggested before, cutting back on the effort I put into people who don’t put effort into me. The energy that I spend elsewhere could be spent on me.

Yes, trauma can make us hypervigilant and keen to please others, because that was our survival mechanism in childhood. That’s how we might have ensured to be “loved” and accepted, or even how we prevented physical abuse. Standing up for ourselves might really feel scary, even if we’re in completely different circumstances now, as adults…

It’s good that you do have boundaries and can stand up for yourself. Maybe the problem is that you give up standing up for yourself after a while? Perhaps staying in the relationship is more important to you than the person respecting your boundaries?

I think that most people (at least those who are emotionally healthy) are kind and wouldn’t have a problem respecting your boundaries when you ask them. But there are people who unfortunately don’t care about our boundaries and don’t have a problem crossing them. I guess you have a problem with that kind of people? Those who ignore your boundaries, and then you’d need to stand your ground, but you sometimes have a hard time doing that, because it feels uncomfortable to stay in conflict with them for too long?

I think I’ve been on both sides of the spectrum. Being too hard on people and going too easy on them. It is hard to find a balance.

That’s understandable. Finding a balanced approach is not easy, being assertive, and neither aggressive nor overly permissive. If I remember well, you said that nowadays you’re able to self-soothe when you feel that the other person isn’t respecting your boundaries. Whereas in the past you might have felt unable to self-soothe, and so you felt a greater pressure to react and “demand” that you be respected? Do you think that might be the reason why you’re more “lenient” nowadays?

But perhaps now you’re keen to preserve the relationship and are even hoping that the other person would change if you’re patient enough? And so you put a lot of effort in the relationship (“the effort I put into people who don’t put effort into me. The energy that I spend elsewhere could be spent on me”), even when the person is not really interested in changing their behavior?

This is just an idea, of course, doesn’t mean it’s true for you…

How are you otherwise, Alessa? I figure busy with your studies (and taking care of your son, of course)? ❤️