Hi SereneWolf,

How have you been?

ehh, I’ve been better… it’s my health again, same things coming up again. I really need to force myself to follow my own advice: not to focus on the things I cannot change, but on that which I can.

It’s so easy to focus on the negative when the pain is physical. It’s hard not to think about it… but I guess I have to, I have to shift my attention from that pain (and the entire narrative that it evokes) to something constructive, where I can actually change things, where I don’t need to feel stuck. So that’s been my battle, and I still haven’t won it 🙁

My father is doing okay, though we’ve been changing hospitals now and then because sometimes his coughing gets worse. He has TB, but it’s now just a six-month prevention course of doses.

Oh wow, I’m sorry your dad has TB. I’ve just looked it up – it says it’s important to exterminate the bacteria fully, so that it doesn’t become resistant to antibiotics. I guess that’s why he needs to take the antibiotics over the period of 6 months?

Recently, I’ve been feeling that old sense of losing self-worth without a job. It’s been so many months and there’s still no progress, so many applications, no replies. The stress and self-doubt I was fearing before is starting to build again. On top of that, the financial pressure from hospital bills, family stress, and the loneliness… even though I had good savings, it’s wearing me down.

I’m so sorry, SereneWolf. It sounds tough… I’m honestly impressed that you, even though unemployed, are still able to cover all the medical bills for your father and to support yourself as well. It shows you were very smart, having some savings set aside, because God knows, you need it now.

I do hope you’ll find a suitable job ASAP. Please try not to lose self-confidence, because you’re a very capable young man. The current situation, with you supporting your family even without being employed – speaks to that. I like what you said here:

I also know deep down that no matter what, I’ll figure things out if I just get the opportunity.

Yes, definitely! You’re very capable and you’ll figure things out. Just don’t start doubting yourself!

No, my father isn’t working, and there’s no retirement either since he was in the family business.

Oh that’s bad. So he was working for himself and wasn’t paying anything towards his retirement? And hasn’t set anything aside, as a savings fund?

I’ve been feeling that old sense of losing self-worth without a job.

I hear you, because I know it very well when the old narrative starts creeping in. Mine is the narrative of hopelessness, yours is of no self-worth. Worthlessness. But it’s such a huge, monumental lie, SereneWolf. It’s the old program creeping in, but you know how to switch it off. You can repeat to yourself something like: “I am worthy always, even when I don’t have a job”.

You’ve been raised with the narrative that your worth is measured by how much money you make, right? By how financially successful you are… and that’s such a cruel stance.

Something’s just occurred to me: it could be that parents were saying this to their children, because they expected to be taken care of in their old age. If the children aren’t successful, the parents won’t be able to be taken care of properly. So perhaps this entire culture of measuring the child’s worth through the lens of material success is based on this, rather, selfish premise? Of worrying about their own old age and trying to ensure they’d be properly taken care of?

I don’t want to speak badly of your parents, but perhaps the culture in India is a bit cruel towards children in general, and so you were raised in such a culture, and it’s very hard to extricate yourself from its conditioning?

Still, I do hope you find a job soon, and something you like as well. Are you still looking for remote positions exclusively?

Cooking is honestly the only thing keeping me sane right now. I’m trying to entertain myself, but I rarely find anything that really clicks.

Good that you have something to keep your spirits high. What about bike riding and other activities that you said you love?

I hope your situation changes soon… but you know, perhaps what should change first is the inner “situation”, i.e. your self-image, where you’re telling yourself that you’re worthless without a job. If that’s what you’re telling yourself, or are tempted to tell yourself, please change it. Please rewrite this false narrative. And then perhaps, even your outer situation will change all of a sudden…

Wishing you luck and rooting for you, SereneWolf!

Hi Jana and all,

I love your questions about how to set boundaries (and handle conflict in general) in a respectful, compassionate, yet assertive way.

I think Alessa exemplified setting boundaries in exactly such a way, when she asked Anita to stop posting hurtful comments in her SOCJ journal. This is what Alessa said:

Hi Anita
I appreciate that you’re going through something right now.

Boundaries are a two way street. If you don’t want replies. It is important to stop making painful assumptions about people that you don’t want to talk to you. You might not understand what you are doing is hurtful. It is. Which is why you have been asked to stop multiple times. No one has to stay quiet whilst you talk about them. It is a public space.

I am not criticising you. I am managing my own boundaries as someone you are repeatedly talking about. I am allowed to take care of myself, just as you are allowed to take care of yourself.

Honestly, I don’t need this stress. If you don’t stop I’m just going to leave because I don’t have the emotional bandwidth to deal with it right now. I really don’t like conflict because of my PTSD which is really bad right now.

On a side note, I don’t even understand why you got upset at me in the first place. You didn’t want to discuss it. I would like to work things out and listen to you when you are ready to talk. This might be the last thing I say, so take care in advance. I wish you well and healing on your journey.❤️

I think Alessa showed bountiful compassion and understanding for Anita and her pain, but she also explained what’s bothering her (i.e. what is hurtful to her) and asked Anita to stop. She also set a consequence if Anita doesn’t respond to her plea: that she would withdraw from the conversation.

And that’s what the experts say is a true boundary: not only expressing a preference of how we would like to be treated, but as the next step (if the person ignores our plea), expressing what will be the consequence of that, i.e. how our behavior/actions will change.

I think Alessa’s is truly a beautiful example of setting a boundary in a loving, compassionate, and yet assertive way. ❤️

Dear Anita,

thank you for your heartfelt message. I fully understand your need to take a break from this thread to process and integrate everything that transpired. I can imagine it’s been hard for you to reach this point:

It’s been very difficult for me to get to this point.. the point of accountability: admitting fault.. going as far as seeing troubling similarities between my mother and me. It’s a LOT. I need time to turn inward and process.

Yes, it is a lot. It’s hugely important that you could self-reflect and see certain patterns that you may not have been aware of before. I’m impressed by your ability to turn inward and start examining everything: “the way I think, feel and behave- online and in real-life.”

Take your time, Anita, and let all of this sink. You’ve been brave, staying present and not withdrawing from the conflict, even when your first instinct was to run. I’m happy that you could stay present with difficult feelings – which I reckon was more painful initially, but eventually it lead you to a new place within you.

I believe that my experience with you, in this thread, is a life changer for me. You made a major, positive difference in my life, and for that I am forever grateful.

Thank you, Anita. Well, it came about through a pretty big storm, but as the saying goes, all is well that ends well… 🙂 And I’m happy that on the other side, there’s a new awareness, a new sense of you, as it seems.

I wish you deep healing and days fills with self-love, self-compassion, peace and calm. And patience. A lot of patience and gentleness with yourself. You deserve it, Anita.

Good luck to you! See you in a bit! ❤️

Hi Anita,

thank you. Wow, what to say… I’m a bit surprised, to be honest, because only yesterday, or the day before yesterday things looked differently. But it’s a beautiful, heartfelt message, and I truly hear that there has been a shift in you…

I’m glad that you’ve read my long post (Sept 9, 1:46am) till the end, and saw that my intention isn’t to quarrel, to be defensive, but to share my perspective with the hope that I would be heard. I’ve felt a shift in me too when you’ve apologized for attacking me in your SOCJ journal, and realized that my intention wasn’t to hurt you but to help you.

After that I’ve felt an opening, and even though you were accusing me of new things, I took a less defensive approach and could speak from a calmer, more accepting place.

I’m still processing it all, to be honest, but thank you, truly. I might come back to your post and comment on specific points, but for now, I just want to appreciate your new sentiments and realizations about yourself and about me and my intentions.

Through all of this, you are helping me be a better person.. no longer defensive, no longer aggressive.

I’m glad you’re feeling a change in yourself. This conflict certainly taught me things about myself too. I hope we can all learn from it and see what to avoid in communicating with others. It’s definitely been a learning experience, though very tough and tiring! 🙂

Thank you again, Anita, I appreciate your message and your change of heart. I think I need to rest and process it all for a while, but I’ll be back 🙂

Hi Anita,

Do you mean that at this point, when you and I are communicating directly, right here), and moving forward, it’s okay for you to express any negative feelings that you have or may have about me- not directly to me- but to Jana, Alessa or another member other than me?

When I expressed feelings about you, I’ve used your name, as well as everybody else did (those who chose to talk about you), so you knew whom we were talking about. This is a public forum and you can join the discussion if you want to (which you eventually did). All was fair and transparent, no assumptions, no guessing.

On the other hand, when you spoke about me and other forum members without mentioning our names, it wasn’t fair because although we felt it was about us, you didn’t spell it out openly, so it could be used to deny that you were actually talking about us. Nevertheless, I’m glad that you didn’t choose to deny it, i.e. you did take responsibility for those words and sentiments.

Hi Anita,

Thank you for your message. I must admit, it’s a mixed bag of feelings, but I’m very happy you’ve realized that I haven’t tried to hurt you but that I actually tried to help, even if it didn’t end up being helpful:

What happened is that in my mind, you intended to hurt me. But I was wrong. Your intent was to help me. Next, after trying to make you see my point back then, and you repeating the same, I continued to address the topic in my own journaling posts, indirectly and repeatedly referring to you as someone who injured me, similarly (although to a much lesser extent, of course) to my mother.

I see now.. it all started with me- in my journaling posts, my own thread or threads- defending myself against you, but also attacking your character.

I am now taking full responsibility for misunderstanding your intent to help me as an intent to hurt me, then reacting by attacking your character in my journaling posts. I did you wrong, Tee.

Thank you, Anita, for realizing that I indeed didn’t intend to harm you but to help you, because radical acceptance (and a sort of detached compassion, which I’ve explained what I meant by) helped me heal from my mother’s abuse. I truly thought it might be beneficial for you. But I apologized when I’ve realized it was an ill-fitted advice.

I am sorry, Tee. By attacking your character, I have done you wrong. In the heart of the conflict, the misunderstanding on your part was not intentional, you didn’t try to hurt or invalidate me. You simply did your best. I should have been grateful for your efforts and not take your input the wrong way.

Thank you for acknowledging that my intention wasn’t to hurt you or invalidate you. And I fully accept your apology. Thank you.

Now, allow me to address other parts of your post, some of which were difficult to read. But I respect that this is your perspective, and I’ll try to share mine.

Memories are not exact, Tee.

I remembered it as hundreds of times because every time you did, I felt threatened by it, and that fear affected my memory. I felt threatened by it, and that fear affected my memory.

Yes, sure, if we feel threatened, our fear tends to augment the threat, see things even worse than they are.

But I also know that if we feel emotional charge towards someone, be is positive or negative, we will tend to remember who that person was. That’s why I thought you surely remember who you were talking about – since you had negative feelings towards us. So that was my reasoning.

But what you’re saying now, if I understood you correctly, is that at that time (end of July, beginning of August), you might have felt negative feelings not only towards me and Alessa, but also towards Peter and Jana:

Now, in regard to whom I was referring to in my past journaling posts: I can’t tell you about that particular sentence that you quoted- I will have to go back to that post and see that sentence in context so to determine who I was referring to. Could have been Alessa, could have bee you, could have been Jana… Peter? I don’t remember.

Okay, I didn’t know that. You did mention that at some point you felt resentment towards Peter, because he didn’t reply to one of your posts. And I also know you had a conflict with Jana earlier this year (for which she apologized at the beginning of this thread).

So I understand now that when you wrote this:

I don’t remember if I had you and/or Alessa in mind when I wrote that sentence (I wrote so much in my stream-of-consciousness posts…)

… it could have been also other members, such as Peter or Jana.

I’ve already apologized for accusing you of lying that you don’t remember whom you were talking about (Sept 7):

If you truly didn’t remember whom you were talking about, I apologize for wrongly accusing you.

But it seems you didn’t like the format of my apology, and basically rejected it, saying this:

About your “Lori has been informed” post (I forgot what thread includes it) and in the many posts on this thread, where used quotes from my stream of consciousness vulnerability against me, accusing me of lying, and trying to gather support from other members so to jointly attack me.. well, that’s up to you to take accountability (not the kind of IF I was wrong, then I apologize, but “I was wrong (where you were)”.

Okay, I was wrong – because there might have been more people whom you had negative feelings about. I’m sorry, Anita, but isn’t it kind of funny that I have to defend myself for assuming that you were less judgmental than you really were?

I mean, I thought it could have been only 2 people whom you had negative feelings about, but now you’re saying it could have been 4 people in total. Honestly, is this something you want to be proving your point about, and then accusing me of having bad intentions against you?

Please don’t take offense, but when we step back and see a bigger picture, it becomes a little absurd. I hope you see it too?

Also, Tee- your use of “we” (Tee+ Alessa.. Tee + Jana + everyone else) vs Anita is not fair to me, nor is it fair to Alessa whom you have pressured to align with you.

I did express my disappointment that Alessa glossed over the fact that you didn’t apologize to her or admit any wrong-doing, but instead, expressed your own hurt about one of her posts in which she defended me. Alessa swiftly apologized for that and after that, your conversation shifted to mental health aspects and how they may be a contributing factor to the conflict.

However, Alessa and me talked about it, and she explained what her priorities are during conflict, which I completely acknowledged and respect. These are my words to Alessa:

And you felt that it’s more important to establish rapport with Anita, to engage from a place of empathy and understanding, rather than insisting on her accountability. I understand. Whereas to me, I feel true conflict resolution can’t come about without accountability on both sides.

Please don’t feel like my feelings are more important than yours. You’ve explained what your priority is at the moment, and I respect that. I understand why you feel the way you feel

After that, I haven’t tried to change her approach to this situation. I’ve explained my perspective, but I made no attempts to make her see things differently, or to engage with you in ways that feel uncomfortable to her.

I need to communicate with you Tee- separately from Alessa- because like Alessa said herself, the two of you are very different people

You are communicating separately with her. I hold no grudges against her for having a different approach to you, and I told her so. You’ve offered her if she wants to discuss past difficulties between the two of you on her own thread, and she is of course free to take you up on that offer. She is a free person and I totally respect her needs and her wishes. She isn’t in any way accountable to me.

Also, Tee- your use of “we” (Tee+ Alessa.. Tee + Jana + everyone else) vs Anita is not fair to me,

I’ve only used “me and Alessa” in the context of us being the targets of your negative sentiments in your journal. We were at the receiving end of those negative sentiments, which you refused to stop posting, and so we both felt attacked.

As for “me + Jana”, I simply responded to her posts and expressed my feelings and experience, which might be similar to some of her feelings and experience.

How is this not fair to you? Should we just stop sharing our experiences, so you wouldn’t get offended?

This was exactly one of the main issues for multiple members: they felt that expressing opinions that you find unsettling might cause you to start judging them and speaking badly of them. And it seems you’re trying to tell me now that I shouldn’t be speaking to Jana and sharing my experiences?

Regarding “me + everyone else”: in my posts to you, I was voicing the concern expressed previously on this thread by multiple members. There was a conversation on this thread (in which I haven’t even participated from the beginning, since I was on holidays), in which members expressed their concerns about the July/August conflict.

I didn’t rally them to share those things – they did it of their own accord. So it’s not fair of you to accuse me of rallying people against you. The only time I asked for others’ feedback was here (Sept 4):

I would actually like to ask those who are reading this, if you care to answer: do you feel that either me or Alessa were abusive to Anita, i.e. that we criticized, invalidated, judged, dismissed, misused or tried to hurt Anita – all of which she claimed that we did?

This was in a post where I talked about your perception (that me and Alessa were abusive to you) vs. the reality of the situation. That’s the only time I asked people for feedback, and not in a pressuring way but simply if they cared to answer. No one did, and that’s okay.

Like you, I would also like to close my post on a positive note:

I will close this post with saying that I think some more healing is happening for me as a result of this thread. I think that I understand better and am capable now to consider .. innocent intents behind misunderstandings. And also to do more of Staying instead of Withdrawing, gently Defending instead of Attacking.

I appreciate your realization that I wasn’t trying to hurt you. I also appreciate and accept your apology.

I’m also glad that you’re experiencing some more healing thanks to this thread, including the ability to stay present with difficult emotions and stay in the dialogue, rather than withdraw and then express your grievances indirectly.

I think it’s better if we can express what bothers us directly to the person. I appreciate you’ve returned to the conversation, even if not everything you’ve said has been easy to hear.

I also appreciate you chose not to use Copilot in this post, because Copilot makes the answers a little mechanical, in my opinion. I prefer talking to a real person, not a machine, because it’s more authentic. So thanks for that 🙂

Dear Alessa,

I appreciate you. You really tried your best to keep this “beast” of conflict under control, trying to mediate and offer both me and Anita some suggestions of how to meet half way.

I don’t agree with everything you said in your evaluation of the conflict, but you made some good points. I’d like to address some of the points tomorrow, when I’m better rested.

It has been a pretty difficult situation, and I’m aware that it was very triggering for you. But thanks for sticking around nevertheless! ❤️

Dear Jana,

I’ve just seen your message. Please do take care of yourself and have a break from these difficult topics and heavy energies.

And you’re right, the best way is to spend time with someone who loves you and cares about you 🙂

Have a good time off, and I hope to talk to you soon, whenever you’re ready ❤️