Dear Jana,

thank you for not shutting this thread down and allowing the discussion to unfold, regardless of how uncomfortable it may be.

I am used to not being heard or understood. Overlooked in the end… After all, it was stated – someone else’s needs are more important… Am I surprised? Not really…

I’d like to say, Jana, that I very much understood what you shared in your yesterday’s post, about Anita’s words triggering a reaction in you, reminding you of school bullying that you’ve gone through.

These are the words that Anita wrote (on July 31) that you said triggered you:

BELIEVE Me, be on MY SIDE.
Keep current invalidating people out of my personal space: people who continue my mother’s work of invalidation and judgment.. however politely.

And this is what you felt:

What Anita wrote, and I understand that it is some time ago and I understand that it could be under a lot of emotions, raised a deep fear in me that I will be PUNISHED if I happen to write something, which seems to me now, could be anything… anything that could even just by a mistake be seen as a criticism by Anita.

I too had a feeling that I was punished for saying something Anita didn’t like, and then receiving verbal slaps on the face, not just once, but repeatedly, over a course of a week or so. The “slaps” kept coming, and Anita wouldn’t stop, even after Alessa asked her to, twice. And asked her very nicely.

Getting those slaps was terribly hurtful, because it felt so unfair, so untrue, characterizing me as some bully who is abusing Anita, while I did no such thing. Eventually I resorted to asking Lori to intervene, after Anita insinuated that we would rejoice if she got physically hurt. That was too much. I couldn’t take it any more.

I understand that Tee and Alessa felt that the words were attacking them… and when I read that Anita wouldn’t stop unless a formal authority steps in… it really reminded me of some of my bullies… They wouldn’t stop unless an adult, a teacher maybe, showed up… I had a horrible nightmare, full of violence…

Yes, those words felt like attacks, unfair judgments, and maybe bullying, yes. I don’t want to accuse Anita of bullying, but being told again and again that I’m bad, that I’m hurting her, that I’m a horrible person…. that was tough. And I think it actually reminded me of my mother, because that’s what she used to tell me. She used to accuse me of being bad, of hurting her, when I did nothing wrong. So this might have been an extra reason why I felt so hurt.

Sometimes when I was a child and I happened to appear in someone’s “territoty”, which could be a school corridor or a playground for example, I had to obey… or it would end up in punishment…

I am sorry, Jana, that you have been bullied in your childhood. That you were bullied for simply appearing in the “wrong territory”. And that you were probably physically hurt as well. And I’m sorry that it wouldn’t stop until a teacher or another formal authority stepped in. You must have felt helpless and terrified in those moments. Have you worked on that in therapy? ❤️

When I read the last reaction to Brandy, I just felt that there is no place for me… only for Anita… I don’t matter at all… because Anita claimed herself “the most wounded” and that she doesn’t need to become more resilient… … which is, however, a part of being more responsible for our own emotions, to be resilient and not driven by pain like I did exactly this morning…

There is no place for me, for my pain, for my needs…. because Anita’s pain and needs are more important and she will not do anything about it. This is what my mind – by this time probably horribly distorted by my own difficulties – understood.

Thank you for speaking openly about your pain of being overlooked and cast aside as less important. Of being told (or made feel) that your pain is not as big or important as someone else’s. Of perhaps being told that you need to manage your own emotions, while they (those who bullied you) don’t need to manage theirs?

I think this is actually very similar to what Anita was saying to me and Alessa. She proclaimed her right to speak badly about us, even if Alessa asked her to stop. She wouldn’t consider that her words were hurtful. She was focused only on her own needs, on her own pain.

So I think there is a clear link, and you’re not imagining things. True, Anita didn’t say those things to you, but still, it triggered a reaction because you’ve been told very similar things before, by other people.

Would you like to speak more about that? Would you like to claim the space for talking about your pain, and your pain only? (perhaps starting another thread)

Or if you want to continue here, I’m fine with it. Whatever suits you best…

❤️

Hi Anita,

Tee, Sept 6: “Anita, if you truly want to share honestly, then start by being truthful about some basic facts…”- Ouch!.. How can I possibly proceed communicating with you toward a resolution when you are calling me a liar?

No, I am not calling you a liar. I said that you pretend not to remember whom you were talking about, when it’s pretty clear that it can only be two people. I’m not calling you a liar in general. And if you truly didn’t remember whom you were talking about, I apologize for wrongly accusing you. But it seems you don’t want to communicate with me, i.e. you don’t want to share openly, and you find excuses why you shouldn’t.

But Anita, why don’t you address the issues that were raised by other members? You don’t need to talk to me, or work towards conflict resolution with me, if you don’t want to. Talk to other forum members.

I know you did, previously, expressing your affection. But I think everybody would appreciate if you addressed the pain points as well. As I said, some people felt that this place isn’t safe enough because of how you react to different opinions. Would you like to speak about that?

Hi Alessa,

I think what Anita is trying to say is that she chose her words carefully.

She doesn’t remember if it was both of us, or if it was me.

Well, the point I was trying to make in that post is that she was accusing either one of us or both of us of being similar to her mother. It wasn’t a third community member. In fact, now that I’ve taken a look at the original posts, she was probably accusing only me (Keep current invalidating people out of my personal space: people who continue my mother’s work of invalidation and judgment.. however politely..), because at that point, she was still okay with you, she saw you as supportive.

I’m not trying to defend Anita, just stating facts and trying to prevent another argument.

I appreciate you aiming for precision, but my post on Sept 4 wasn’t about claiming who exactly she was talking about (it could have been only 2 people, and actually now I see it was probably only me, based on the timing).

The point of my post was that Anita felt we were abusing her, and she wrote in her journal as if we were abusing her. In that post, I suggested that this was her perception, based on her emotional reasoning, not the reality, and whether she is willing to consider that. I think that now lamenting whether it was just me or both of us whom she was talking about is beside the point.

And Alessa, I’m certainly not interested in another argument with Anita. I’m interested in facts, and I’d be happy if we could engage truthfully and honestly.

Hi Anita,

Oh, I just remembered how or why my conflict with you Tee, started. I remember that you suggested that I am yet to feel compassion for my mother, and that feeling compassion for her will help me.

I explained to you- in detail and repeatedly that I felt TOO MUCH compassion for her my whole life, that I drowned in compassion for her (her pain was Everything, mine was Nothing), and yet you insisted, Tee, that I didn’t yet- or should feel compassion for her.

That was hurtful and .. it made me feel terrible.

As I said back then, I might have used the term compassion clumsily, and as it turned out, out of touch with your feelings and your process. And I apologized for it more than once. I also explained what I meant by it, and that it doesn’t mean suddenly loving your mother and forgetting the abuse she has done to you and exposing yourself to further abuse. Not at all.

I don’t want to go into details of my post about compassion, actually my two posts, one following the other, the second one explaining in greater detail what I actually meant (if someone wants to take a look, those are posts 448021 and 448026, on page 15 of Anita’s thread: Life worth Living).

The point is that I apologized and told you that I’m not trying to push my ideas on you, and that I respect your healing process.

But you weren’t happy with my notion that compassion is something to strive for, even after I’ve explained what I meant. And so you stopped communicating with me and addressed me via Copilot. And then, immediately, without me having a chance to respond, you switched into a higher gear and suggested that not only I’m not supportive of you, but that my lack of support for you is somehow harmful for the community as well. You posted this on July 30, 2025:

Alessa, you are incredible.

The way you support me, your empathy.. is irreplaceable. I don’t ever want to lose it. You are .. the bee’s knees, one of a kind.

Gerard.. are you there?

Tee: Neither here nor there, not with me, not against me. Maybe here, maybe there. Nothing I can hold on to.

Community- isn’t it about we coming together, for the betterment of “we”?

And that’s where I felt the sting. It was really unfair and hurtful. That’s where I decided to withdraw from your thread. I was probably influenced also by the fact that you wanted to stop communication with me already after my first two initial posts, which you deemed problematic. You felt so offended that you didn’t want to keep talking. But we’d continued for a bit more, until you cut the communication completely and started accusing me of having a detrimental effect on the community.

I understand that you were hurt and upset about my initial two posts, and I’ve apologized multiple times. But my apology wasn’t good enough for you. You were so upset that you refused to have anything to do with me from that point on, and switched to accusing me of all manners of things, first openly, then in a veiled manner, without mentioning my name.

I wonder how you feel about it now?

Hi Anita,

Thank you for the “Hi.”

you’re welcome!

in this thread you’ve repeatedly attacked me and, at times, seemed to rally others to join in. I hoped that if you were willing to hold yourself accountable for contributing to an unsafe atmosphere here,

Aah, so you feel that I am guilty of an unsafe atmosphere here, in which I rally other members against you. Hm, I’m afraid I cannot accept responsibility for creating an unsafe environment on these forums.

Other members have freely shared and spoken openly about what is bothering them about this conflict. Most recently, Alessa expressed her fear of how I might react to her, because I defend myself strongly (A lot of the time you have been defending yourself quite strongly. I felt afraid, not knowing how you might react to me.). However, she realized that her fear is unwarranted (It was just a fear. Not reality.)

So, I wouldn’t say that I am contributing to this place being unsafe. Perhaps it feels like that to you, but not to others (I hope).

In fact, more members expressed the need for a space that is “brave”, as an upgrade from “safe”. To quote from an article that Peter shared:

Instead of promising total safety, brave spaces acknowledge that real conversations, especially about identity, justice, and difference will involve discomfort. The goal isn’t to eliminate risk but to create a culture of respect where people can speak honestly, listen deeply, and stay engaged even when it’s hard. It’s about courage and care, not comfort at all costs.

In the conflict that we’re talking about, multiple members, including myself, felt that if we share a different opinion or a perspective that you deem unsettling or upsetting, you’ll shut down, stop talking to us, and then keep expressing your criticism and negative feelings about us on your own thread, without mentioning our names. That created a feeling of unsafety in those members, because they felt judged and accused for simply expressing their opinion.

I wonder if you would speak to that, Anita?

Dear Alessa,

I’m not completely focused at the moment, but I would like to say one thing:

I know that because of my C-PTSD I get afraid in conflict, even watching it between two people. I don’t mean this in a bad way Tee. But I don’t know how you respond in conflict because this is the first time I’m seeing you in a conflict. A lot of the time you have been defending yourself quite strongly. I felt afraid, not knowing how you might react to me. If that makes sense?

Oh Alessa, I’m so sorry about that. Yes, I do defend myself strongly when I’m being accused strongly 🙂 And unjustly… But I never felt anything but friendliness towards you. I know you have a beautiful heart and you care so much, too much even. So please don’t be afraid to tell me anything, really, whatever bothers you, whatever you feel is left unspoken. I am willing to listen. I can take it, I promise. And you won’t hurt me ❤️

Hmm well that is another priority I have that takes higher presidense over my need for things to be calmer. I care about being supportive, more than about calming down the conflict if that makes sense?

I feel like being alone in these things and not having your needs met would be quite challenging.

I see. I understand you want to be supportive, to take care of everyone’s needs. But I think in this particular case, it seems an almost impossible endeavor, because Anita demanded that only her needs be met. That her needs are more important than yours or mine, or anyone else’s.

For example, we expressed the need not to be spoken badly of on her thread, but this need wasn’t respected. And to this day, Anita hasn’t expressed regret for not respecting that need of ours. On the contrary, she considered our need not to be verbally attacked as the violation of her need to express herself freely, in support of her healing.

So how do you reconcile those two needs? You cannot. Something has to give, as they say. And I felt you were willing to let go of your need, while I wasn’t willing to do the same. But if I’m understanding you correctly, you probably didn’t want to let go of your need for good, but just not insist on it for the time being, until you rebuild trust with Anita, right?

I worried that previous conflicts with Anita might make it difficult for her to trust me in conflict. I wanted to show her my nature and that I’m not trying to hurt her.

So you wanted to show her that you’re not trying to hurt her. But dear Alessa, you’ve been showing her that since long ago. Your every post was so loving and respectful, even when you asked for your boundaries to be respected. You expressed nothing but compassion and understanding, nothing but goodwill. You even said at some point that you apologize for your part in the conflict, when there was nothing to apologize for, because you haven’t done anything wrong. You posted this on Aug 10:

I am very sorry for my part in things Anita. When you are ready to talk I will be here.

You wrote extensively that you understand her, that you’re sorry that the ability to journal was taken away from her – even if she used that journal to speak badly of you.

See? You went above and beyond. You tried everything, and I’d say you tried too much, because it was even going against your own needs. But in any case, you tried your best. And I don’t think you need to try again… now I think it’s Anita’s turn to try… to understand you and your needs.

Dear Jana,

I’m sorry this was very triggering for you. And I apologize if I too contributed to that.

I am too weak to set peace in conflicts.

You don’t need to, Jana. Please don’t blame yourself. It’s not your fault or your responsibility that some conflicts go on, in spite of your best intentions.

However, you have the right to be upset, either about the conflict going on in spite of your expressed wishes, or about particular participants’ words and actions.

I understand if you were upset about me for keep engaging, for not letting go of certain things. I also saw that you were upset about some things that Anita said. But then it seemed you started blaming yourself for not being able to manage your emotions better.

I’d just like to say: please don’t blame yourself. This is a hard situation to be in. It’s charged. And you’re not responsible for keeping the peace. Sometimes peace and common ground cannot even be reached because there is no shared understanding of what happened.

I don’t want to add to your stress and overwhelm, so I’ll stop now. But if you need anything from me, please say so. ❤️

Anita,

Tee, I hear your pain and your perspective. What I won’t accept is the reframing of my boundaries and truth-telling as manipulation or favoritism. I’ve named harm with clarity, offered repair where I saw fit, and refused to collapse into emotional labor for those who bypass accountability. That’s not a lack of empathy—it’s emotional sovereignty.

I won’t engage in a dynamic where my refusal to self-indict is cast as villainy, nor will I accept comparisons that pathologize my boundaries. If this space feels unsafe to you because I won’t perform care on demand, then perhaps what’s needed is not less truth—but more capacity to hold it.

Good job at learning new expressions (“emotional labor”) to bolster your narrative! Say hi to Copilot for me, it’s doing a great job supporting you in these emotionally troubling times!