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Tee
ParticipantDear Jana,
thank you for not shutting this thread down and allowing the discussion to unfold, regardless of how uncomfortable it may be.
I am used to not being heard or understood. Overlooked in the end… After all, it was stated – someone else’s needs are more important… Am I surprised? Not really…
I’d like to say, Jana, that I very much understood what you shared in your yesterday’s post, about Anita’s words triggering a reaction in you, reminding you of school bullying that you’ve gone through.
These are the words that Anita wrote (on July 31) that you said triggered you:
BELIEVE Me, be on MY SIDE.
Keep current invalidating people out of my personal space: people who continue my mother’s work of invalidation and judgment.. however politely.And this is what you felt:
What Anita wrote, and I understand that it is some time ago and I understand that it could be under a lot of emotions, raised a deep fear in me that I will be PUNISHED if I happen to write something, which seems to me now, could be anything… anything that could even just by a mistake be seen as a criticism by Anita.
I too had a feeling that I was punished for saying something Anita didn’t like, and then receiving verbal slaps on the face, not just once, but repeatedly, over a course of a week or so. The “slaps” kept coming, and Anita wouldn’t stop, even after Alessa asked her to, twice. And asked her very nicely.
Getting those slaps was terribly hurtful, because it felt so unfair, so untrue, characterizing me as some bully who is abusing Anita, while I did no such thing. Eventually I resorted to asking Lori to intervene, after Anita insinuated that we would rejoice if she got physically hurt. That was too much. I couldn’t take it any more.
I understand that Tee and Alessa felt that the words were attacking them… and when I read that Anita wouldn’t stop unless a formal authority steps in… it really reminded me of some of my bullies… They wouldn’t stop unless an adult, a teacher maybe, showed up… I had a horrible nightmare, full of violence…
Yes, those words felt like attacks, unfair judgments, and maybe bullying, yes. I don’t want to accuse Anita of bullying, but being told again and again that I’m bad, that I’m hurting her, that I’m a horrible person…. that was tough. And I think it actually reminded me of my mother, because that’s what she used to tell me. She used to accuse me of being bad, of hurting her, when I did nothing wrong. So this might have been an extra reason why I felt so hurt.
Sometimes when I was a child and I happened to appear in someone’s “territoty”, which could be a school corridor or a playground for example, I had to obey… or it would end up in punishment…
I am sorry, Jana, that you have been bullied in your childhood. That you were bullied for simply appearing in the “wrong territory”. And that you were probably physically hurt as well. And I’m sorry that it wouldn’t stop until a teacher or another formal authority stepped in. You must have felt helpless and terrified in those moments. Have you worked on that in therapy? ❤️
When I read the last reaction to Brandy, I just felt that there is no place for me… only for Anita… I don’t matter at all… because Anita claimed herself “the most wounded” and that she doesn’t need to become more resilient… … which is, however, a part of being more responsible for our own emotions, to be resilient and not driven by pain like I did exactly this morning…
There is no place for me, for my pain, for my needs…. because Anita’s pain and needs are more important and she will not do anything about it. This is what my mind – by this time probably horribly distorted by my own difficulties – understood.
Thank you for speaking openly about your pain of being overlooked and cast aside as less important. Of being told (or made feel) that your pain is not as big or important as someone else’s. Of perhaps being told that you need to manage your own emotions, while they (those who bullied you) don’t need to manage theirs?
I think this is actually very similar to what Anita was saying to me and Alessa. She proclaimed her right to speak badly about us, even if Alessa asked her to stop. She wouldn’t consider that her words were hurtful. She was focused only on her own needs, on her own pain.
So I think there is a clear link, and you’re not imagining things. True, Anita didn’t say those things to you, but still, it triggered a reaction because you’ve been told very similar things before, by other people.
Would you like to speak more about that? Would you like to claim the space for talking about your pain, and your pain only? (perhaps starting another thread)
Or if you want to continue here, I’m fine with it. Whatever suits you best…
❤️
Tee
ParticipantHi Alessa,
Reminder to you both that this is Yana’s thread and that she asked for the fighting to stop.
I don’t think she said that. She said she is staying out of the discussion, but that she is welcoming things to be unpacked:
I can see there is a strong need to unpack this conflict. I understand. It can be beneficial, it can bring more understanding…
It is good and important to self-reflect. Sometimes the deepest self-reflection happens during a tough conflict.
I don’t see that asked us to stop?
Tee
ParticipantHi Anita,
Tee, Sept 6: “Anita, if you truly want to share honestly, then start by being truthful about some basic facts…”- Ouch!.. How can I possibly proceed communicating with you toward a resolution when you are calling me a liar?
No, I am not calling you a liar. I said that you pretend not to remember whom you were talking about, when it’s pretty clear that it can only be two people. I’m not calling you a liar in general. And if you truly didn’t remember whom you were talking about, I apologize for wrongly accusing you. But it seems you don’t want to communicate with me, i.e. you don’t want to share openly, and you find excuses why you shouldn’t.
But Anita, why don’t you address the issues that were raised by other members? You don’t need to talk to me, or work towards conflict resolution with me, if you don’t want to. Talk to other forum members.
I know you did, previously, expressing your affection. But I think everybody would appreciate if you addressed the pain points as well. As I said, some people felt that this place isn’t safe enough because of how you react to different opinions. Would you like to speak about that?
Tee
ParticipantHi Alessa,
If this situation doesn’t improve shortly, I’m going to have to prioritize my self-care over being supportive. I cannot cope with this kind of prologued stress.
I’m sorry this is affecting you. Sure, please do take care of yourself and not read or engage for a while if necessary.
I’m aware that you don’t like conflict, and this is a protracted one. But I feel it’s necessary to clarify some things.
Perhaps you could both work together to find an agreeable compromise?
I don’t think there can be a compromise, or a conflict resolution, rather, until both parties have felt that they’ve been heard. And that there is at least some common ground in understanding of what happened.
Tee
ParticipantHi Alessa,
I think what Anita is trying to say is that she chose her words carefully.
She doesn’t remember if it was both of us, or if it was me.
Well, the point I was trying to make in that post is that she was accusing either one of us or both of us of being similar to her mother. It wasn’t a third community member. In fact, now that I’ve taken a look at the original posts, she was probably accusing only me (Keep current invalidating people out of my personal space: people who continue my mother’s work of invalidation and judgment.. however politely..), because at that point, she was still okay with you, she saw you as supportive.
I’m not trying to defend Anita, just stating facts and trying to prevent another argument.
I appreciate you aiming for precision, but my post on Sept 4 wasn’t about claiming who exactly she was talking about (it could have been only 2 people, and actually now I see it was probably only me, based on the timing).
The point of my post was that Anita felt we were abusing her, and she wrote in her journal as if we were abusing her. In that post, I suggested that this was her perception, based on her emotional reasoning, not the reality, and whether she is willing to consider that. I think that now lamenting whether it was just me or both of us whom she was talking about is beside the point.
And Alessa, I’m certainly not interested in another argument with Anita. I’m interested in facts, and I’d be happy if we could engage truthfully and honestly.
Tee
ParticipantSorry, slight correction in the order of events:
After my apology and attempts to explain what my I meant by compassion, you posted that I’m not really supportive of you and that my lack of support is also affecting the community. Then I wrote that I’m withdrawing from your thread. And then you addressed me via Copilot, and starting comparing me with your mother, without mentioning my name (July 31):
BELIEVE Me, be on MY SIDE.
Keep current invalidating people out of my personal space: people who continue my mother’s work of invalidation and judgment.. however politely..
I feel anger at all the people past and recent.. who hurt me. I don’t want to do the same to others: to arrogantly, self-righteously.. ignorantly… criticize, point to what’s lacking in the other person…
Tee
ParticipantHi Anita,
Oh, I just remembered how or why my conflict with you Tee, started. I remember that you suggested that I am yet to feel compassion for my mother, and that feeling compassion for her will help me.
I explained to you- in detail and repeatedly that I felt TOO MUCH compassion for her my whole life, that I drowned in compassion for her (her pain was Everything, mine was Nothing), and yet you insisted, Tee, that I didn’t yet- or should feel compassion for her.
That was hurtful and .. it made me feel terrible.
As I said back then, I might have used the term compassion clumsily, and as it turned out, out of touch with your feelings and your process. And I apologized for it more than once. I also explained what I meant by it, and that it doesn’t mean suddenly loving your mother and forgetting the abuse she has done to you and exposing yourself to further abuse. Not at all.
I don’t want to go into details of my post about compassion, actually my two posts, one following the other, the second one explaining in greater detail what I actually meant (if someone wants to take a look, those are posts 448021 and 448026, on page 15 of Anita’s thread: Life worth Living).
The point is that I apologized and told you that I’m not trying to push my ideas on you, and that I respect your healing process.
But you weren’t happy with my notion that compassion is something to strive for, even after I’ve explained what I meant. And so you stopped communicating with me and addressed me via Copilot. And then, immediately, without me having a chance to respond, you switched into a higher gear and suggested that not only I’m not supportive of you, but that my lack of support for you is somehow harmful for the community as well. You posted this on July 30, 2025:
Alessa, you are incredible.
The way you support me, your empathy.. is irreplaceable. I don’t ever want to lose it. You are .. the bee’s knees, one of a kind.
Gerard.. are you there?
Tee: Neither here nor there, not with me, not against me. Maybe here, maybe there. Nothing I can hold on to.
Community- isn’t it about we coming together, for the betterment of “we”?
And that’s where I felt the sting. It was really unfair and hurtful. That’s where I decided to withdraw from your thread. I was probably influenced also by the fact that you wanted to stop communication with me already after my first two initial posts, which you deemed problematic. You felt so offended that you didn’t want to keep talking. But we’d continued for a bit more, until you cut the communication completely and started accusing me of having a detrimental effect on the community.
I understand that you were hurt and upset about my initial two posts, and I’ve apologized multiple times. But my apology wasn’t good enough for you. You were so upset that you refused to have anything to do with me from that point on, and switched to accusing me of all manners of things, first openly, then in a veiled manner, without mentioning my name.
I wonder how you feel about it now?
Tee
ParticipantHi Anita,
For example, you accused me of lying about not remember who I was thinking about when I wrote one particular sentence in one of my many long SOCJ posts. I didn’t lie, Tee. I knew I was thinking of someone in the forums, just didn’t remember whom.
Okay, let’s look at what I wrote (Sept 4):
You do realize that you listed me and Alessa as people who abused you, similarly like your mother did? (people who continue my mother’s work of invalidation and judgment).I clearly didn’t mean only one specific sentence, but a whole set of accusations with the theme of us being similarly invalidating and judgmental as your mother. You never denied that you had us in mind when writing those sentiments. However, when I mentioned it on Sept 4, you suddenly didn’t remember:
I don’t remember if I had you and/or Alessa in mind when I wrote that sentence (I wrote so much in my stream-of-consciousness posts…)
And now you’re saying:
I didn’t lie, Tee. I knew I was thinking of someone in the forums, just didn’t remember whom.
Well, who could it be? Who did you feel upset about at that point? Me certainly, maybe Alessa too. There were no other members whom you were upset with at that point, if I remember well. It’s pretty clear whom you were referring to. Why suddenly claim you don’t remember?
Anita, if you truly want to share honestly, then start by being truthful about some basic facts, such as that those allegations were about either me or Alessa, or both of us. Please don’t try to paint me as someone who is wrongly accusing you, when I am only pointing at the obvious.
If you want to share honestly, please do so. It will be appreciated by me and everyone on this forum.
Tee
ParticipantHi Anita,
Thank you for the “Hi.”
you’re welcome!
in this thread you’ve repeatedly attacked me and, at times, seemed to rally others to join in. I hoped that if you were willing to hold yourself accountable for contributing to an unsafe atmosphere here,
Aah, so you feel that I am guilty of an unsafe atmosphere here, in which I rally other members against you. Hm, I’m afraid I cannot accept responsibility for creating an unsafe environment on these forums.
Other members have freely shared and spoken openly about what is bothering them about this conflict. Most recently, Alessa expressed her fear of how I might react to her, because I defend myself strongly (A lot of the time you have been defending yourself quite strongly. I felt afraid, not knowing how you might react to me.). However, she realized that her fear is unwarranted (It was just a fear. Not reality.)
So, I wouldn’t say that I am contributing to this place being unsafe. Perhaps it feels like that to you, but not to others (I hope).
In fact, more members expressed the need for a space that is “brave”, as an upgrade from “safe”. To quote from an article that Peter shared:
Instead of promising total safety, brave spaces acknowledge that real conversations, especially about identity, justice, and difference will involve discomfort. The goal isn’t to eliminate risk but to create a culture of respect where people can speak honestly, listen deeply, and stay engaged even when it’s hard. It’s about courage and care, not comfort at all costs.
In the conflict that we’re talking about, multiple members, including myself, felt that if we share a different opinion or a perspective that you deem unsettling or upsetting, you’ll shut down, stop talking to us, and then keep expressing your criticism and negative feelings about us on your own thread, without mentioning our names. That created a feeling of unsafety in those members, because they felt judged and accused for simply expressing their opinion.
I wonder if you would speak to that, Anita?
Tee
ParticipantHi Anita,
Today, Tee wrote: “I feel true conflict resolution can’t come about without accountability on both sides.”-
Would you like to elaborate on accountability on your side, Tee- in regard to the nature of your participation in this thread as well as what preceded it?
Anita, how about you starting first? How about showing some goodwill that you claim you possess? Remember, I am angry (Angry Tee). I don’t have goodwill. (But no empathy and no goodwill from you, Tee—only accusation, repeated accusation.)
And besides, you haven’t addressed any of the points that Jana made in her last post, or that Brandy made (you already dismissed those), or that Lucidity made, or that Peter made (he made some excellent points about conflict, e.g. to have a look at ourselves when we feel triggered).
You haven’t addressed any of the real issues, which were brought up by various members of this forum. Any of their concerns. You’ve only expressed you were angry at them, but now you feel affection towards them. How charming!
But let’s get real, Anita. Let’s address the pain points… and leave the carrot cake for later…
Tee
ParticipantDear Alessa,
I’m not completely focused at the moment, but I would like to say one thing:
I know that because of my C-PTSD I get afraid in conflict, even watching it between two people. I don’t mean this in a bad way Tee. But I don’t know how you respond in conflict because this is the first time I’m seeing you in a conflict. A lot of the time you have been defending yourself quite strongly. I felt afraid, not knowing how you might react to me. If that makes sense?
Oh Alessa, I’m so sorry about that. Yes, I do defend myself strongly when I’m being accused strongly 🙂 And unjustly… But I never felt anything but friendliness towards you. I know you have a beautiful heart and you care so much, too much even. So please don’t be afraid to tell me anything, really, whatever bothers you, whatever you feel is left unspoken. I am willing to listen. I can take it, I promise. And you won’t hurt me ❤️
Hmm well that is another priority I have that takes higher presidense over my need for things to be calmer. I care about being supportive, more than about calming down the conflict if that makes sense?
I feel like being alone in these things and not having your needs met would be quite challenging.
I see. I understand you want to be supportive, to take care of everyone’s needs. But I think in this particular case, it seems an almost impossible endeavor, because Anita demanded that only her needs be met. That her needs are more important than yours or mine, or anyone else’s.
For example, we expressed the need not to be spoken badly of on her thread, but this need wasn’t respected. And to this day, Anita hasn’t expressed regret for not respecting that need of ours. On the contrary, she considered our need not to be verbally attacked as the violation of her need to express herself freely, in support of her healing.
So how do you reconcile those two needs? You cannot. Something has to give, as they say. And I felt you were willing to let go of your need, while I wasn’t willing to do the same. But if I’m understanding you correctly, you probably didn’t want to let go of your need for good, but just not insist on it for the time being, until you rebuild trust with Anita, right?
I worried that previous conflicts with Anita might make it difficult for her to trust me in conflict. I wanted to show her my nature and that I’m not trying to hurt her.
So you wanted to show her that you’re not trying to hurt her. But dear Alessa, you’ve been showing her that since long ago. Your every post was so loving and respectful, even when you asked for your boundaries to be respected. You expressed nothing but compassion and understanding, nothing but goodwill. You even said at some point that you apologize for your part in the conflict, when there was nothing to apologize for, because you haven’t done anything wrong. You posted this on Aug 10:
I am very sorry for my part in things Anita. When you are ready to talk I will be here.
You wrote extensively that you understand her, that you’re sorry that the ability to journal was taken away from her – even if she used that journal to speak badly of you.
See? You went above and beyond. You tried everything, and I’d say you tried too much, because it was even going against your own needs. But in any case, you tried your best. And I don’t think you need to try again… now I think it’s Anita’s turn to try… to understand you and your needs.
Tee
ParticipantHi Alessa,
It may not seem that important to you, but it was important for me to explore how my neurodivergence affected conflict.
Oh I’m sorry, Alessa. I didn’t want to dismiss your neurodivergence and exploring how that affects conflict. I just felt that the conversation completely shifted to the mental health aspect of the conflict, and how you can support Anita in making this space as comfortable as possible for her (and yourself, as someone who struggles with autism and C-PTSD).
The topic of her accountability was dropped in the process, and the effect was that she kept engaging from the perspective of the only victim, refusing to consider how her words and actions might have affected others. This stance was confirmed in her replies to Brandy and me. That’s what I was concerned about.
You and I, simply have different priorities, perspectives, needs and conflict styles. That is not to say that one is more valid than the other. That is not true, we are just different people.
I’m sorry you feel like I’m enabling Anita by not discussing my feelings right now. I disagree, I’m simply prioritising my own needs.
I think I understand you better now. You prioritize de-escalation of the conflict, and then discussing things in a calmer environment:
I don’t want to discuss my needs in a heated environment, I don’t feel like that is healthy for me. I would prefer to focus on deescalation and creating a calmer healthy environment first.
And you felt that it’s more important to establish rapport with Anita, to engage from a place of empathy and understanding, rather than insisting on her accountability. I understand. Whereas to me, I feel true conflict resolution can’t come about without accountability on both sides.
Okay, I get it. I do believe that sometimes insisting on de-escalation without accountability can lead to false peace, where things are swept under the rug. Those unaddressed issues can easily lead to another conflict, sometime down the line.
At the same time, I respect your needs in this conflict and understand where you’re coming from. Your need at the moment is for a peaceful environment, not for the past hurt (that was inflicted upon you in this conflict) to be repaired. Would that be a fair statement?
I feel like your feelings about how you were affected are more important to me than mine
Please don’t feel like my feelings are more important than yours. You’ve explained what your priority is at the moment, and I respect that. I understand why you feel the way you feel ❤️
I don’t know how this conflict will end, what will be the outcome, but to be honest, I’m glad that certain things were discussed openly, even if it wasn’t comfortable.
But I don’t have the need to keep discussing it and proving my point. I’ve mostly said what bothered me, and I also felt I’ve been heard, and that’s what matters the most. I admit, things are not ideal, but that’s okay, I can deal with less than ideal outcomes 🙂
Tee
ParticipantDear Jana,
I’m sorry this was very triggering for you. And I apologize if I too contributed to that.
I am too weak to set peace in conflicts.
You don’t need to, Jana. Please don’t blame yourself. It’s not your fault or your responsibility that some conflicts go on, in spite of your best intentions.
However, you have the right to be upset, either about the conflict going on in spite of your expressed wishes, or about particular participants’ words and actions.
I understand if you were upset about me for keep engaging, for not letting go of certain things. I also saw that you were upset about some things that Anita said. But then it seemed you started blaming yourself for not being able to manage your emotions better.
I’d just like to say: please don’t blame yourself. This is a hard situation to be in. It’s charged. And you’re not responsible for keeping the peace. Sometimes peace and common ground cannot even be reached because there is no shared understanding of what happened.
I don’t want to add to your stress and overwhelm, so I’ll stop now. But if you need anything from me, please say so. ❤️
Tee
ParticipantHi Alessa,
I know your intentions are good, you’re trying to be caring and accommodating to everyone.
But I think there has been a misunderstanding. I wasn’t trying to accommodate anyone by setting a boundary. That boundary was for me.
Sorry, I wasn’t necessarily talking about the boundary you set, but in general about shifting the focus of the discussion to Anita’s sensitivity, asking her questions about her mental health and why it might contribute to her sensitivity during conflicts, and taking care of her needs, so to speak.
That’s all fine, but I felt it failed to address the “elephant in the room”, namely that Anita hasn’t acknowledged any wrong-doing towards you, hasn’t apologized for any of her actions, and has portrayed herself as the victim ever since she came back.
I felt that this enabled Anita to remain in her victim narrative, not acknowledging any harm that she’s done (which you previously expressed and are aware of). You kind of let go of the need for her to apologize, and remained hopeful that she would do it later.
And so she continued with her version of the story, implying that she is the “most wounded” and therefore we need to respect her “boundaries”, which might include not saying anything she finds unsettling or threatening. This is from Anita’s reply to Brandy:
I understand your longing for a space where people don’t tiptoe. I share that longing. But I also know that emotional safety isn’t created by asking the most wounded to be more resilient—it’s created by honoring their boundaries without pathologizing them.
Or her reply to me:
I’ve named harm with clarity, offered repair where I saw fit, and refused to collapse into emotional labor for those who bypass accountability. That’s not a lack of empathy—it’s emotional sovereignty.
She claims she offered repair, but she’s done none of that, because she hasn’t acknowledged any wrong-doing. She is claiming that others are bypassing accountability, while that’s exactly what she is doing.
So what’s the result? If we want to respect her “boundaries”, we need to silence ourselves. We need to tiptoe. We need to respect her pain, but dismiss our own.
And this is how a space becomes unsafe, how it becomes stifling for those who might have issues with some of Anita’s words and actions.
I would encourage you to talk to me directly if you feel hurt about something I have done.
Dear Alessa, I’m not really hurt, but rather, I’m sad. What happens is that by being very accommodating to Anita and focusing on only her pain and her discomfort while putting yours aside – you’re enabling more of this behavior. Not that you want it, but that’s the result.
But please know that I’m not judging you at all. I see your struggle and your good intentions. You truly believe that this conflict can be worked out at everyone’s satisfaction, if we’re just patient enough. I’m afraid I’m not sharing your optimism.
Tee
ParticipantAnita,
Tee, I hear your pain and your perspective. What I won’t accept is the reframing of my boundaries and truth-telling as manipulation or favoritism. I’ve named harm with clarity, offered repair where I saw fit, and refused to collapse into emotional labor for those who bypass accountability. That’s not a lack of empathy—it’s emotional sovereignty.
I won’t engage in a dynamic where my refusal to self-indict is cast as villainy, nor will I accept comparisons that pathologize my boundaries. If this space feels unsafe to you because I won’t perform care on demand, then perhaps what’s needed is not less truth—but more capacity to hold it.
Good job at learning new expressions (“emotional labor”) to bolster your narrative! Say hi to Copilot for me, it’s doing a great job supporting you in these emotionally troubling times!
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