Dear Paradoxy,

Your hypothetical story is possible, but I find it very difficult to believe that level of extremity.

Well, what is true is that she did start accusing him about something he said in that chat she stole from you. And it is also true that he started defending himself. I can imagine that they continued the conversation, and she told him her version of the story and that she was actually your victim.

She told you the same in her letter that you’ve shared here. It was a typical narcissistic “oh poor me” narrative, where she kind of acknowledged that prostitution was a bad choice on her part, bur then also accused you of making her prostitute herself. And of “ruining” her in general. So she used the typical “I am the victim/martyr” narrative with you, and I don’t doubt that she told the same story to your friend too, portraying herself as the victim.

The rest of my hypothetical story might be an exaggeration, but I am pretty sure he warmed up to her in these past 3 months, and didn’t see her as such a bad person any more. That, coupled with the fact that she is hot and is posting her modeling pictures on social media:

she had been posting her modeling pictures on her status too so I am not amazed he got intrigued

he texted her first regarding her modeling, and then proceeded to make the move

and the fact that he likes to sleep around:

He even broke up with his long distance gf cause he wanted to be sexually satisfied by other women instead of waiting for the girl who actually loved him.

… all probably contributed to him starting hitting on her.

So there is a backstory to his move, I am sure. But she of course didn’t share their entire chat history with you, but only the part where he made the move.

I am referring to the times when he told B that I could be cheating without her knowing and the time when he fed her with more false information, which made her believe that we were breaking up cause I was cheating instead of breaking up over her cheating.

And are you sorry? In fact that was the only time she broke up with you, thinking you’re with some other girl, when in fact you were in your room, sleeping. But you quickly reconciled after that, so no big harm was done. But what about all the other breakups that you initiated because of her bad behavior? Because of her lying about her ex? Because of her wearing revealing outfits and posting it on social media in spite of promising not to? Because of her prostituting herself?

All that didn’t endanger your relationship, but that one occasion where she asked your friend if you were cheating (so she came up with the paranoid thought first), and then he decided not to dissuade her – that’s what endangered your relationship?

Really?

I asked another guy friend for his opinion and he said not to confront him cause it might ruin the friendship and it’s best to just keep my guard up around him.

And your friendship is not already ruined? I think it’s never a good idea to play into a narcissist’s game: she telling him lies about you (and him believing, at least partially), and now she almost certainly hiding key pieces of their interaction, and making him seem like the only guilty party and a traitor. While she is pulling the strings.

Obviously I haven’t been allowed to move on yet cause she keeps calling me once in a while and tells me stuff like to take her to the atm, and I ask her if she would give me my money if I take her there and she says it depends on how much she has on her acc, so I walk her to the atm in the hopes of getting the money, only to find she barely has money. Every time she calls me, I take the call in the hopes of getting my money and she is leading me in circles with that trick.

Oh so you even have to take her to the ATM? She doesn’t have online banking, so she doesn’t know how much money she has?

And then once you get to the ATM and she sees her account is almost empty, she sheepishly says “oops, nothing there. Can’t give you back today, sorry”. And that’s it? You’re buying it?

Every time she calls me, I take the call in the hopes of getting my money and she is leading me in circles with that trick.

Well actually, she’s making a fool put of you. First, she would know how much roughly she has. I mean, she should know it – before she calls you. The fact that she is dragging you to the ATM and then acts surprised that she doesn’t have the money, and basically stands you up and you go back empty handed, is beyond humiliating.

And even her nonchalant attitude that she’ll give you if there is enough money there – shows that she prioritizes her own expenses and isn’t even one bit concerned about giving back what is yours. It’s like “first I’ll buy everything I need for myself, and then if there’s something left, I’ll give it to you.” But of course, there is nothing left over – she spends everything on herself.

But as I said, it’s not just the fact that she is super selfish and entitled, and doesn’t care one bit about paying you back. It’s also her attitude where she is making a clown of you, by making you go to the ATM with her and waiting like a puppy for a treat, and then getting nothing.

Yes I am working on that now. Teaching myself acceptance.

Acceptance to be treated like a clown?

So even if I play it safe, I wont get my money?

No, with this attitude of hers, and you accepting it and tolerating it – no, you won’t get it.

I dont want to enable her, but it feels like i need to in order to get my money. Yk, to deal with a narcissist u gotta feed their ego until they are satisfied enough to stop bothering you.

A narcissist is never satisfied. They can never get enough of narcissistic supply. Which you are proving to her in abundance – both by financing her and by putting up with her sh*tty behavior. You are her perfect source of supply, and she isn’t going to let you go easily.

Yeah I am working on learning how to deal with a narcissist. Hope it works.

Unfortunately, you are going about it the wrong way.

Dear Paradoxy,

Yes, but his behavior shows that maybe he was interested in her from the beginning.

Possibly. She is sexy and seductive. As I said, many men are interested in such women.

Maybe that is why he did the stuff he did the previous times we fought. He may have made his move now but saying that he would have wanted to get to know her if I didn’t exist means he was interested in her even while I was dating her.

So in their June 4 conversation, he told her he would have wanted to get to know her (like from the moment he met her), if you weren’t his friend? If so, at least he respected the fact that you are his friend. But really, if he was attracted to her, what should have he done? Certainly not admit it to you, since that would have been even worse for everyone.

But I agree, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth to have your best friend being interested in your ex. Still, you can’t forbid him to be attracted to her, and now even to make a move. Still, I’d talk to him about it, because I am sure she is not telling you the whole story.

Um how is he a victim? He made the move first. He messaged her first. She just didn’t want me telling him that she told me the truth, especially after he told her not to tell me.

Well, she already went behind his back and told you about it – which he asked her not to. And they’ve communicated in the past too, it’s not like this was their first conversation. So there might have been an exchange between them, which you’re not aware of. And she seems like a girl who is flirty in general, so why wouldn’t she be with him too.

In any case, I think she could hardly wait to tell this to you, and to start pitting you and your friend against each other. She might have been telling him lies about you, same as she painted you as a psycho to one of her girlfriends, by omitting some important details.

So if she told him her version of the story (filled with lies), he might have started seeing her in a different light, and trusting her, and seeing her as a victim… So who knows what preceded that message of his, where he started hitting on her.

Though the photoshopping could be a possibility, I dont have any means of confirming it.

Unless you talk to your friend… and find out what he has to say, rather than trusting her (a proven liar) on her word.

Well I did see her bank statement and she only has around 60$ so I wouldn’t push it away as a tactic.

Well, she clearly likes to spend money (including your money)… that’s why she has almost nothing on her bank account. It’s not like she is trying hard to save up, so she can repay you. On the contrary, she is spending on herself, e.g. now she has enrolled a trading class. BTW is it to become a broker?

I know I might never get it, but I still wanted to try. Just maybe. Just maybe she might stop being the way she is, even if it is 0.00001%.

Good luck with that, Paradoxy. Because the chance is 0%. Zero. Nada. Your attempts are futile. It’s like going to the snake and expecting not to be bitten.

But it’s your choice. You know how she makes you feel. You know the kind of things she is telling you:

my ex proceeded with more insults. Telling me that every girl that rejected me dodged a bullet lol. Telling me that I am unlovable.

She owes you quite a lot of money, but she has the audacity to insult you and lecture you. And you are taking it all in, believing her, feeling worse after each conversation, feeling broken. But still, going for more, trying to convince her that you are a good person after all, hoping that she would see it, hoping that she would change….

I am sorry that you are allowing her to abuse you, time and again. I am sorry that you don’t realize that she is exploiting you and ruining you even more. And that she won’t change, even if she is promising things. Narcissistic people are known for that: false promises. Future faking. Giving you hope, promising that things will be different. But nothing. Ever. Changes.

She might even lure you back into a relationship. Beware of that.

Hi SereneWolf,

sorry, this will be a long post. I apologize in advance if it’s too much and if I perhaps missed the point…

First of all thanks a lot for putting that much time for me. You’re a truly good mentor and supporter.

You are very welcome! And thank you for your kind words. It seemed like an important material, and very relevant to you, so I figured I want to transcribe it, to have a written trace of it. I’ve learned a lot from it, and I am glad you too benefited.

Those are very good insights so thanks for pointing that out and the thing is that I’m trying to create a healthy boundaries but most of the time what is still happening that If I get a minor inconvenience or feel like they’re not respecting my boundaries even once or twice I distance myself from them and after that I kinda feel much less connected to them.

It could be that if they don’t pick up immediately that something is bothering you, you feel unseen by them, and you conclude that your needs don’t matter to them, and that they might hurt you (maybe it’s not even conscious but unconscious reasoning). And from that moment on, you are on guard and you start distancing yourself.

If so, it means that a minor slip on their part leads to a major danger alert going off in your subconscious mind. And so you switch to defense mode, where you are on alert for being hurt. And in order to prevent being hurt, you preemptively withdraw and stop being open and vulnerable. This is what might be happening.

The reason for that is the old trauma, which causes you to make a big deal out of a minor issue. And to put up your shields.

What happened in your childhood is that your mother didn’t really care about your emotional needs: she didn’t care if your father’s anger outbursts hurt you. Moreover, she told you to accept it without any resistance. She basically told you your emotions don’t matter (in this case fear and anger), and that you should be able to control your anger and pretend that it’s not there. She told you that you should silently take the verbal “beatings” and be a good, obedient boy.

In other words, your mother didn’t have much regard for your emotional needs. She didn’t let you have boundaries. Or to be rightfully upset for being mistreated. And it felt horrible. It felt like a prison. It felt so horrible that you left home at the age of 17.

She didn’t let you set boundaries, and so you didn’t get the chance to learn how to set boundaries. The only way to protect yourself from being invaded was to leave. To remove yourself from the situation/relationship completely.

So this is I think what’s happening: in a romantic relationship, when you feel that the person doesn’t care about your needs – and it could be that even a minor thing can trigger such a feeling – your knee-jerk reaction is to want to leave the relationship. Even if you don’t leave physically, you start withdrawing emotionally, and the intimacy is lost for you. Intimacy is not an option any more.

So instead of working to repair the relationship – and maintain emotional connection and intimacy – you put a stop on intimacy. You block it. Even if you stay in the relationship, you stay in a self-defense mode, with your shields up (we’ve talked about the shield/armor around your heart).

And I think one aspect of this self-defense mode is the superiority/inferiority dynamic, where you feel less vulnerable if you can feel superior than your partner.

In the relationship with your father, you felt inferior and never good enough. It seems that with a romantic partner, you never want to feel that way: worthless, unlovable, not good enough. And so you either avoid relationships altogether, or if you opt for a relationship, you want to feel better than your partner. Because that’s how you feel safe(r) from her criticism.

I think that’s why you also want to perfect yourself as much as possible before getting married:

[I said] Maybe loving hard also means that you need to work hard to be lovable? That you need to be successful, so she would love you (“she can always find a rich husband but a for a guy, he got to be something good”)?

[you replied] Kind of yes I guess like trying to perfecting the relationship and my partner too.

I imagine it’s because the idea of being stuck with someone who criticizes you all the time (such as a criticizing, judgmental wife) is unbearable.

But I think also the idea of being stuck with a woman who is full of faults, who is unaware of her issues and refuses to work on herself – is equally unbearable to you:

I just don’t want to deal with the women who aren’t even self aware about their traumas and not actively working on it. Because effort is something that really attractive to me. Kind of a priority.

In your last post you said the girl should be similar to you:

I don’t think that some damaged people but hmm more like someone I can resonate with a little, Not too much different from me so it would be easier to open up for me.

Putting all this information together, it seems to me that your perfect partner is someone who has similar issues, i.e. someone who similarly like you doesn’t feel good enough and wants to “perfect” herself.

Your first LDR was like that, wasn’t she? She had many issues (mostly low self-esteem) and wanted to change. And you were keen on helping her to change. You two were stuck in the superior/inferior dynamic, where she was trying to change and be a better person, but was failing most of the times. You hoped she would change, but she never did, and after 3 years you had enough and called it quits.

With your next LDR, you only stayed for about 2 months. This is what you said about her:

She’s nice and mature but she is somewhat an anxious person. like whatever I suggest she be like it’s easy to tell, hard to do. even though I tried being patience she’s just doesn’t want to get out of her comfort zone.

She’s mostly complaining that I’m being hard on her. Even though I’m trying to take this patiently. So what now I shouldn’t have some ground values of my own?

She didn’t appreciate your attempts to push her out of her “comfort zone”. She thought you were hard on her. Maybe that’s because she had more self-esteem than your first LDR and showed more resistance to your attempts to “perfect” her. And since her resistance was greater (and more obvious) than your first LDR, you broke up with her rather swiftly:

When I don’t see efforts I also lost interest quite fast. One of the reasons why I broke up with one of the Best LDR I had. Because I felt like I was the only one putting the efforts there. and that’s why in 2nd LDR I sensed like I don’t want to deal with the same thing because I felt like she wouldn’t even put the effort more than the previous one. so I broke up with her as well.

Now this latest girl has issues as well, possibly some similar to yours (anger), but overall, she has bigger issues than you in terms of mental health. She also seems interested in working on herself (she has been in therapy for 4 years), which is a must for you.

So right there you’ve got 2 potential attraction points: she has similar but greater issues than you, and she is (at least in theory) interested in self-improvement.

You also said she is mysterious:

I think I was curious because she seemed little bit mysterious at first. … She smokes, she’s dramatic and her anger is always on the edge. I tried to understood why she’s the way she is and I noticed that it’s just her coping mechanisms, At heart she’s kind and loving woman.

It could be that you were intrigued by her anger (because it reminded you of your father), and started hoping that underneath her anger you might find a “kind and loving woman”. So she would be someone similar to your father, and yet different: someone who appears rough and angry on the outside, but is actually kind and loving underneath. This might have been a hope and the excitement that your inner child felt in the presence of this “mysterious” woman.

Maybe I got carried away too much here. But in any case, I can see why you were intrigued by her, even if she appears the “opposite of what you like” (another friend told me how she is opposite of what I like).

But just because this recent woman which I barely talked to her for like 2 weeks. We can’t say that I’m attracted to troubled people. Can we? But yeah she’s more troubled that’s for sure.

Well, you were attracted to a troubled person in the past (your first LDR), with whom you stayed for more than 3 years. And you said she was your best LDR.

Maybe I am looking too much into this, and I apologize if I am talking nonsense. But still, here’s what I am thinking: perhaps the reason why you considered her your best relationship is because she fulfilled the 3 criteria that I listed above: 1) similar but greater issues than you, 2) openness (at least declarative) to self-improvement and change, and 3) openness to being coached/helped by you, as someone who is “further along” on the self-development journey? Perhaps these are the “attraction points” that make you fall in love with a girl?

Please note: this is just an assumption. Think about it, and see if it resonates at all. If yes, then it’s kind of a formula of how you fall in love, a formula which is more or less based on self-defense. It doesn’t really allow for intimacy and vulnerability.

Let me know what you think. And I apologize if I went overboard with my assumptions and analysis.

Dear Dafne,

thank you for your care and kindness and wishing me well regarding my health.

I am very sorry that you are suffering from the consequences of long Covid. That must be awful 🙁

And did you get Covid more than once? Because you said that it got worse after your last Covid (After my last COVID, it got even worst.) I really hope that with time it will get better for you, Dafne.

I was smiling when you mentioned the flower in my profile picture you got it right again. I did do a lot of artistic projects in the past and painting was one of my favourites. I used to sit in the nature a lot and just breath.

I am glad I was right about the artist in you! 🙂 How come you stopped painting and doing art projects, if I may ask?

Perhaps being in nature and just soaking in its beauty would help you relax, and might even have a positive effect on your breathing? I apologize in advance if I am over simplifying things and making useless suggestions. Because I know dealing with a chronic illness is much more complicated than that…

Yes, it was a separate session but people seemed to share the information and it did not feel very private. The group wasn’t the patients but the health professionals.

Oh so it was like an expert panel, so to speak, giving you their suggestions. That’s a strange setup for counseling, because counseling is best done 1:1, where the patient develops trust and rapport with the practitioner. What they did is more like a hospital setting, where a panel of doctors decides what’s the best treatment option in case of disease. But here, the best treatment option is to have empathy and understanding for the client. That’s how our healing begins.

You found the right word for this kind of practice “tough love” and it wasn’t a very compassionate & understanding environment. It might be that they meant well and did not want people to feel like victims but the effect was completely different. It did not feel right at all and feelings seemed to be ignored and logic prevailed.

I understand it’s important not to feel like a helpless victim – because if we do, we won’t be able to make the necessary changes in our lives. However, we were victims as children – we were indeed helpless victims. And we were harmed. And this needs to be acknowledged before we can proceed to heal. The wound needs to be acknowledged, before it can be treated.

Tee, I will make sure to check the places you suggested for the tramatised animals. My mom’s dog is a COVID baby as she got him around that time. She rescued him and had to pay a lot of money as the place did not want to keep him due to his appearance. He had a squint and was very shy.

Oh so nobody wanted the little dog, but your mom took pity on him and rescued him. And I guess she paid a lot of money for his surgery, i.e. doctor’s expenses?

Nobody wanted him but my mother showed her loving heart and took him. My mother did not give him the proper training as most places were closed during the COVID and he stayed at home most of the time. She did a very beautiful thing but now as he got older it got harder as well.

Well, this tells me that your mom would never hurt that dog. If she had a loving heart to take him and nurse him to health, then I am sure she would never harm him. So her threats are empty, Dafne, she is only using it to emotionally blackmail you.

As for your ex fiance, first I’d like to say that it’s better that you’ve split up, because he seems like a violent man, who attacked his wife physically and she had to call the police on him twice (he pushed his ex-wife on the coach and she called police 2 times on him.)

Not only that, but he blamed her for his violent behavior (he blamed her for everything).

Which means that if you had a disagreement with him in the future, you might have received a similar treatment, and a similar excuse: that it was your fault.

Also, he was possessive, because he didn’t like it when you went out with your girlfriends. He was also jealous, believing that you might find someone better than him:

he controlled me when I wanted to go out with my girlfriends. He always suspected that I might meet some man better than him.

Possessiveness and jealousy is another big red flag. And the need to control his partner’s social life, lest she leaves him. Those are all very worrying features in a guy.

The financial aspect and stinginess is also a problem, but it’s not even his worst sin. Physical violence and blaming the woman for “provoking” him, as well as possessiveness and jealousy are all very serious problems. And you are lucky you haven’t ended up together with him.

As for his financial and living arrangements with his ex-wife, I didn’t get it whether he was living in the house he bought on mortgage, or his ex-wife was living there with their children? Or they were both living in the same house, because he couldn’t afford to buy/rent another place?

You said your mother went to help with his kids and stayed there for 2 weeks. Which would tell me that he is living there with the kids. Where was his ex wife during that time? Was she sick?

I am guessing he is not sharing equal custody of the kids (50:50), since you said he doesn’t have a baby sitter (he did not want to pay for baby sitter or any help). So I am guessing this 2-week period was an exception, when his wife wasn’t there or couldn’t take of the kids, and that’s why he had to take care of them?

Another problem was that he wasn’t legally divorced – that’s why he didn’t want a civil wedding, and he never showed you the divorce papers. He still had common property with his ex-wife – the house which he was paying the mortgage for – and so a chunk of his income always goes towards that property. And I’ve looked it up, it’s common in case of divorce that the family home remains intact, for the benefit of the children. And that it may remain intact till the youngest child turns 18.

However, after that, the place can be sold and the proceeds split. But he wanted to keep that place for his children and his ex-wife even after his death (He told me that his house is for his kids and when he dies also for his ex-wife.), while at the same time he was expecting you to live in a partnership with him, in which a significant portion of his income would go towards paying off the mortgage. To me, this sounds unfair.

I don’t know, maybe I am not seeing it clearly, but it seems unfair, because you would be bearing the burden of his mortgage, but then eventually, the house would go to his ex-wife after his death.

His other features, like despising poor people, are also a big red flag:

He always spoke about rich people highly and told his kids that poor people have no value in this life.

So all in all, he doesn’t seem like a good, ethical person, on the contrary. And you made a good choice for not proceeding with him!

What do you think Tee? Was I right to stop all the contact with him after all that? I still wrote with his daughter but it seems now that she is distancing herself from me as well. What would you do in my place?

You were right to stop contact with him. When did you split up? How old are his children now? And how long were you together? I guess it’s normal that your relationship with his daughter slowly fades away, since you never got to live with her and form a deeper bond with her, right?

Dear Paradoxy,

The amount of anger that I have boiling inside me makes me want to break him, but I made a promise to his mother to keep him safe.

A boxing bag might be a good idea – a safe way to physically express anger without hurting anybody…

Dear Paradoxy,

Got screenshots of their conversation on Instagram

She sent it to you? When is the conversation between the two of them dated?

but honestly don’t know who to trust anymore.

Definitely not her. She is known for seductive behavior, sexting and other stuff. And lying. I wouldn’t be surprised if she flirted with your friend too.

Basically, he was interested in her from the beginning. Basically, he was interested in her from the beginning. Despite all the things I told him about her.

A sexy, enticing girl, who enjoys men’s attention, is interesting to a lot of  men… He might think she is hot. There is no crime in that. But he didn’t start anything with her until after you two broke up. If it is even true that he started hitting on her. Perhaps she was being seductive with him… BTW if he really wants to pursue her, in spite of everything you told him about her, well good luck, he’ll have to learn his lesson the hard way.

The amount of anger that I have boiling inside me makes me want to break him, but I made a promise to his mother to keep him safe.

Please don’t harm him. You need to control the physical expression of your anger, even if you feel anger inside.

So now I have to walk around with more anger and hate in my heart, while pretending to be good friends with him.

Have you talked to him about her allegations (that he was hitting on her)?

Already called B out for being a narcissist a while back, but that argument didn’t go anywhere. She is just too stubborn.

Yeah, narcissists are like that… and if you call them out, they’ll accuse you right back – that you are a narcissist. Has she done that?

I am here trying my best to stay calm and understanding and she just pushes all the wrong buttons.

What do you need to understand? Has she started repaying your laptop, or she is still finding excuses to delay it?

And then I burst when I couldn’t handle her disrespect and I started being verbal abusive to her when she crossed the line with her disrespect. I tolerate insults toward me but don’t expect me to stay calm if she starts insulting my parents, and I fell right into her trap: she now says I am the one who didn’t change and that she was the one who had to put up with my verbal abuse.

Are you still caught in a conflict with her, with arguments, mutual accusations, insults, things like that?

Even if I watched those videos and identified B as a narcissist, I still have to put up with her until I get my money back.

And has she started repaying? Because if not, then your ongoing conflict is just a smokescreen, which uses to justify her defiance and her refusal to give you back your money. She might want to keep you in this state of anger, frustration and conflict for months and years. Without delivering what she’s promised.

Hi SereneWolf,

I just want to add: the fact that you’ve recently stood up to both your father and grandfather and expressed your frustration is a big deal! That’s the beginning of standing up for yourself, saying No to certain things, and setting boundaries. Exactly what you need in the next phase of your healing journey: to speak more freely and stand up for yourself, not suppressing your frustration and pretending you are fine with being mistreated (the latter is what your mother taught you).

So it’s a huge huge step forward and an important milestone!

It’s also great that your mother understood your need to speak up and didn’t try to silence you, once you’ve explained to her how much her “hushing you down” have cost you in terms of mental health:

Although My father does started to tell my mom (Not to me or my brother directly) that we’re not obedient like before. We siblings talk back a lot. And My mother still just listens to that. But she did told me that if you think it’s hurting you then speak up I didn’t speak up in all these years so I don’t speak up or just rarely.

So that’s a change of attitude on her part too. And you were clear that you won’t let her hush you down anymore. So I just want to reiterate: that’s a great progress, SereneWolf, and I think it’s actually a crucial step in becoming more authentic and self-confident (and free) – not only in the relationship with your parents, but in all of your relationships too.