Anita,

You are interpreting my emotional processing as projection, false accusation, and a Smear campaign, framing my subjective experience as objectively harmful, even though I didn’t name you or Alessa, didn’t claim either one of you rejoiced in my pain—only that I feared it. I was writing in my own thread, about my own healing

Your subjective experience was posted on a public forum, and we all knew who you were talking about. You felt threatened by us, and you verbalized it. It might have been healing for you to say those words, but it was hurtful for the recipients of those qualifications and insinuations.

If you cannot see it, I’m sorry. However, accusing me of gaslighting when it is exactly what you are doing – denying that your words did any harm to us – is extraordinary.

None of the quotes you provided indicate verbal abuse. Not by any ethical, psychological, or relational standard.

* Verbal abuse involves such things as targeted insults, threats, degrading language, and intentional harm.

I did none of that. I expressed distress, reclaimed my voice, and set boundaries around my healing space.

You expressed qualifications, accusations and insinuations about us. You presented those qualifications as facts: “current invalidating people… people who continue my mother’s work of invalidation and judgment”. People who “arrogantly, self-righteously.. ignorantly… criticize, point to what’s lacking in the other person”.

Is that expressing distress or also a qualification of those people? Labeling? You labeled us as invalidating, judgmental, criticizing, arrogant, self-righteous.

You also stated as a fact that we try to hurt you, and that we dismiss and misuse you:
She doesn’t accommodate those who try to hurt her. She doesn’t submit to those who dismiss her.. those who misuse her.

You also expressed fear of being punished by us:
But they will hurt me, they will punish me.

Eventually, you insinuated that we might rejoice in your pain:
And I was thinking: if I share this here, will some people rejoice in my pain?
Will some people go: Yea! The **** got hurt!?

All of the above is painting us in bad light, making negative qualifications about us, presenting us as your abusers, de facto.

If you don’t see that this was hurtful to us, then I won’t try to convince you of anything anymore.

I’ll let other forum members decide who is gaslighting whom here.

Anita,

“When this verbal abuse reached a culmination”- what verbal abuse? Any quotes to indicate verbal abuse on my part?

Okay, let’s see:

July 31, 2025:

BELIEVE Me, be on MY SIDE.
Keep current invalidating people out of my personal space: people who continue my mother’s work of invalidation and judgment.. however politely.
I feel anger at all the people past and recent.. who hurt me. I don’t want to do the same to others: to arrogantly, self-righteously.. ignorantly… criticize, point to what’s lacking in the other person…

August 5, 2025:

Young Anita to older Anita: …. Really, really.. I don’t have to talk to anyone I don’t want to talk to..?
Older Anita: you don’t have to.
Younger Anita: I DON’T have to?
Older Anita: You don’t have to.
Younger Anita: I can talk to whom I want to, to not talk to whom I don’t… Just like that?
Older Anita: Just like that.
Younger Anita: And they can’t make me???
Older Anita: They can’t make you.
Younger Anita: And the people I try so hard to reach, to win.. I don’t have to anymore?
Older Anita: You don’t have to. You are free.
Younger Anita: F.R.E.E.. Just like that?
Older Anita: Just like that. You earned it.
Younger Anita (a sigh… a concern): But they will hurt me, they will punish me.. They will punish me if I don’t.
Older Anita: Anita doesn’t go belly-up anymore. She doesn’t accommodate those who try to hurt her. She doesn’t submit to those who dismiss her.. those who misuse her. She is a strong young-old little girl.

After the above post, Alessa asked Anita to stop talking about her:

I’m sure you don’t mean anything bad by it, but can you please refrain from making anssumptions about people you don’t want to talk to. Thanks very much.

But Anita flagged her post as inappropriate and kept posting (July 7, 2025):

SOCJ:
I was cutting blackberries today (thorny, aggressive ouch-if-they-hit-you), and my left arm bled in different locations. At a different area, cutting blackberries, I was hit by stinging nettles- it’s a neurological hit- I am feeling it right now om my right hand as I am typing with my left.
And I was thinking: if I share this here, will some people rejoice in my pain?
Will some people go: Yea! The **** got hurt!?
This is what crossed my mind, following recent interactions here, in the forums.
I’m being as honest as honest-can-be.
Performative Politeness (PP) is not the same as Kindness, at least not the genuine, trustworthy kind of kindness.
I can tell the difference.
So, I am sharing this in my own thread, which I think of as my private sanctuary, a private sanctuary which I need others to witness, at least a few others.
Witnessed, not attacked.

**
SOCJ, continued: The more I share here, the more stuff I give my criticizers (a couple, a few) to use against me.
Yet I keep sharing because (it’s making me smile right now.. although stinging nettles are still stinging).. because there’s no substitution for my growing TRUST in ME.
This is what I lacked for way, way… way too long.
I’m so happy right now.

Alessa posted again following the above two posts, asking Anita very politely, with lots of compassion and understanding, to stop:

Hi Anita
I appreciate that you’re going through something right now.

Boundaries are a two way street. If you don’t want replies. It is important to stop making painful assumptions about people that you don’t want to talk to you. You might not understand what you are doing is hurtful. It is. Which is why you have been asked to stop multiple times. No one has to stay quiet whilst you talk about them. It is a public space.

I am not criticising you. I am managing my own boundaries as someone you are repeatedly talking about. I am allowed to take care of myself, just as you are allowed to take care of yourself.

Honestly, I don’t need this stress. If you don’t stop I’m just going to leave because I don’t have the emotional bandwidth to deal with it right now. I really don’t like conflict because of my PTSD which is really bad right now.

On a side note, I don’t even understand why you got upset at me in the first place. You didn’t want to discuss it. I would like to work things out and listen to you when you are ready to talk. This might be the last thing I talk, so take care in advance. I wish you well and healing on your journey. <3

Anita refuses and posts this defiant reply:

This is my space—my healing space. I will continue to speak freely here unless Lori, the site owner, or a site moderator asks otherwise.

In my SOCJ writings, I can’t help but think of this or that person—whether in real life or here on tiny buddha—when I reflect on certain emotional or behavioral dynamics. I may be referring to multiple people at any one time, not just one.

I’m not mentioning names or sharing personal details that others have disclosed about their private lives, so this is fair.
It’s not reasonable—or healing—for me to walk on eggshells, wondering: Will this person or that person think I’m referring to them? Should I delete this?

My SOCJ thread isn’t just a journal. It’s a reclamation of voice after years of emotional silencing. It’s a space where I assert boundaries, name harm, and integrate my story. It’s a living archive of my healing—raw, unfiltered, and courageous.
To abandon it would be to submit to the very dynamic I’m working to dismantle: the one where someone else’s discomfort overrides my truth.

Then I post, asking Lori to intervene. As a result, two of Anita’s posts (those posted on July 7), in which she insinuates about me and Alessa wanting to see her hurt, are deleted.

Is this verbal abuse? Well, it is certainly abuse, because you, Anita, are accusing me and Alessa (in a veiled manner, not mentioning our names, but it’s clear who you’re talking about) of all kinds of things, such as:

– continuing your mother’s work of invalidation and judgment,
– arrogantly, self-righteously.. ignorantly… criticizing, pointing to what’s lacking in the other person,
– wanting to hurt you and punish you,
– dismissing you,
– misusing you,
– rejoicing in your pain,
– wanting to use derogatory names against you.

You had verbalized your negative feelings about us, accusing us of all manner of things, in a public space. When one person is accusing another of hurting them – when it is only the person’s subjective feeling, not the reality – what is it called? False accusations?

Hi Alessa,

I know that in some ways, I might have helped and in some ways I might have hurt? I’m sorry, I relied on your openness, kindness, good faith, insight, willingness to reflect and understand that I was trying to help. It’s not really fair is it? Especially when you’re in the middle of a painful conflict. I’m deeply sorry for that. ❤️

I know that I didn’t handle the situation in a healthy way and I’m trying to learn more about how to handle situations like this because I want to do better. I’m under no illusion that I’m perfect or know the right thing to do. These situations are so complicated and being human is complicated.

Please don’t worry about it. You haven’t hurt me. I’m much more resilient emotionally than I am physically, haha 🙂 Really. I appreciated your support and I’ve also noticed your struggle. But I know your heart is in the right place, and that your attempts came from the place of wanting the conflict to go away. For everyone to get along, I assume? I totally understand where you were coming from, so please don’t worry about it.

I would like for you to talk more about any hurt you felt about how I mishandled the situation? If you want to? It is up to you.

First, let me assure you you haven’t mishandled the situation. My impression is that you very much wanted to re-establish communication with Anita, and you’ve tried everything to make that happen. And so there might have been some things that didn’t feel so good to hear, however, they didn’t truly hurt me, because I knew where you were coming from.

We can talk about it later, if you’d like, but better not now, because you said you’re pretty stressed at the moment:

Do I know how I feel yet? No, I’m still processing. I am pretty stressed at the moment and a bit out of it. I ran out of medication and had a PTSD episode. I should be able should get some more later today though.

As for Anita re-appearing on your thread, I must say I don’t see it the way you do:

I understand that Anita is trying in her own way. I learned to acknowledge in conflict when someone is trying, not just when someone handles a situation perfectly.

However, I don’t want to push my opinion on you. We can talk about it later…

P.S. I see that Anita’s just posted on this thread…

Dear Alessa,

you’re very welcome!

That is why I tried to help explain things with you. I’m sorry that the explanation and the apologies didn’t help.

Yes, I remember you explaining what I meant to say to Anita, after my first “problematic” post (on radical acceptance), and then later too, after I spoke out regarding unfair accusations. You sort of “defended” me and tried to explain why I said what I said, because I assume you felt very uncomfortable about the growing conflict and wanted things to calm down, right?

Verbal abuse is just as damaging as any other kind of abuse. It weaves its way into the mind. You are a good person Tee.

Yeah it is, it might be more insidious and difficult for the child to spot. And a part of me did believe my mother when she said those things.

Still, the abuse you went through is horrendous and I can imagine it impacted you in significant ways. But luckily, you’re healing now and becoming stronger and more compassionate every day <3

Although, I meant that I learned to stay calm in the moment by being emotionally vulnerable. I used to be afraid of vulnerability during conflict with my mother because she would be encouraged to abuse me more. With others, I was afraid of being rejected. Ironically, I often shut down emotionally when I felt rejected. One day I realised that there is nothing to fear because I have already been rejected. The vulnerability helps me to connect to empathy in the moment.

Aah I see! Yeah, being vulnerable (open and honest about our feelings) with the abuser is often an invitation for more abuse. I’ve learned that too. And indeed, people usually brace themselves during conflict and are in the defense mode (fight-or-flight). In that mode, empathy is not really switched on, and the reptilian brain leads the show.

What you’re saying is that you try to stay connected to your vulnerability, i.e. have empathy both for yourself and for the person you’re having a disagreement with, right? You show understanding for the other person (or for everyone involved in the conflict), and try to see everyone’s perspective, keeping an open heart towards everyone, rather than closing your heart.

To me, it seems like I was instantly cast aside simply for having a different perspective.
Also, I set a boundary that was actively rejected.

Yes, I remember that. Anita refused to talk to you, i.e. talk about what’s bothering her, and requested that no one post in her thread. But then she continued “journaling” and speaking badly about both of us in her journal. And she refused to stop, even after you asked her to. That was pretty painful to witness.

Anita might be under the false impression that we got what we wanted. But we didn’t want this. We wished that she was able to understand where we were coming from and for it not to get to this point. Her doing something because a moderator told her to is not the same thing as respecting our boundaries. She is honouring a boundary set by Lori, not with me.

Yeah, I know… Well, I’ve got to say that I was rather surprised, and honestly, a bit upset when I saw Anita posted in your thread this morning, expressing empathy and compassion for the suffering you went through as a child, however without saying a word about the past conflict, or offering an apology.

To me, that’s not how you repair a relationship. You cannot just pretend that nothing happened and walk in as if no harm was done previously. You cannot continue business-as-usual without acknowledging and taking responsibility for your past actions. Because that in itself can feel like abuse.

Hi Alessa,

Would you like to share how you feel? Perhaps it might be nice to offer each other empathy and reassurance?

Thanks for asking, Alessa. I actually feel fine. I’m glad that more people recognized that something wasn’t right in how this whole thing played out, and spoke out. That was huge, because I didn’t feel alone and it confirmed that others too saw what I saw.

I’ve been also examining myself and whether I overreacted. Well, I can actually pin-point the exact moment when I’ve felt a bit of a foul play going on, and I couldn’t tolerate it. And that’s when Anita tried to enlist the community’s support, claiming that I’m not supportive enough (even after I’ve apologized), that you, Alessa, are super supportive, as well as implying that whoever doesn’t agree with her, is endangering the community (Community- isn’t it about we coming together, for the betterment of “we”?).

That’s where I felt the sting. And that’s where I decided to stand up for myself. And from there on, it escalated.

So yeah, that was my “trigger”, if you will. But I don’t feel I should have let it slide… but I’m open to feedback about it…

For me, I would say that it hurts when boundaries are ignored. All we really wanted was a little kindness.

Can you be more specific? How do you feel boundaries were ignored in this specific situation with Anita?

Dear Silvery Blue (or you prefer Jana?),

I really appreciate you starting this thread and exploring ways to remain compassionate and open-hearted even during conflict.

I also appreciate that you noticed the mistreatment that happened on the forums and named it:

And about this forum…

I have to say that for me… the words that were said in the conflict that took place here in this forum… that people who have a different opinion are “invalidating” and continuing the work of a person who was truly cruel… are really hard.

I know that the moment of trigger can blind us and we say things we really don’t mean. I did it. I came back and apologized, because I felt I crossed the line… It makes the difference: see, understand and acknowledge my own mistake and apologize.

But… to be accused of being the same as an abuser for different opinions… on a public forum… and let it go silent… that can hurt a lot… and it can last long time…

Thank you for acknowledging what happened. Luckily, it didn’t go silent. I didn’t want to stay silent so I reacted, and certain measures were taken. Also, other people chimed it and showed their support, for which I am very grateful.

Unfortunately, Anita chose to stop communicating, and judging from her posts on other threads (as well as here, at the very beginning of the thread), she still believes she is the party that has been harmed, and that by shutting down communication, she is protecting herself from further harm.

Unfortunately, that is her view and nothing can be done about it. I’m afraid this is one of those unsolvable conflicts, as Lucidity put it, where (at least for now) there is no possibility for satisfactory resolution. It does leave a bitter taste in the mouth, but we can’t do much but “radically accept” that that’s the current state of affairs.

I should stop trying so hard to make this place safe… to make it what Peter wrote about… to create a culture of respect where people can speak honestly, listen deeply, and stay engaged even when it’s hard. It’s about courage and care, not comfort at all costs.

Dear Jana, I think that by starting this thread and getting the people to talk about this sensitive, yet extremely important topic – you already contributed to making these forums a safer space. Because of you, we’re now talking about it and exploring various aspects of what it means to be compassionate in the face of conflict. Thank you for that!

I came to a realization that in my strong need to protect others, I always lose myself in the end. But when I try to break this habit, I always hit a wall.

Thank you for trying to protect people who were directly involved (myself included), as well as the safety of the forums! <3 In that endeavor, you haven’t lost yourself – you remained true to yourself. And you were willing to explore even your own triggers and look deeper into yourself, which is truly a sign of maturity.

You have a big heart, Jana, and I’m very grateful for your presence here! <3

* correction: because you’re giving him your attention

Dear Dafne,

Moving in with someone can sometimes make it harder to maintain clear boundaries, especially physical ones. I might be at risk that the other person pushes the limits I’m not comfortable with – or I might feel pressured – it could create stress, tension, or even harm the relationship.

Sure, and in most cases moving in together implies sexual intimacy as well, so if you don’t want that before marriage, then I guess there’s no point in living together, because it would be hard to maintain physical boundary in those circumstances.

Moving in together (even with the best of intentions and marriage as an end goal) doesn’t guarantee it will lead to marriage and might be a waste of time. It is like putting the horse before the carriage.

Also, it creates investments -emotional, financial, practical – but without a guaranteed commitment, he can decide to leave any time. This can lead to emotional stress.

Right, he can indeed. The way I see it: if someone wants to leave and it turns out they’re not compatible, it’s better they leave earlier than later, when you already have children and other (e.g. financial) commitments. My view is that it hurts less when someone’s true character is revealed sooner than later.

Of course, it doesn’t mean that the only way to get to know the person is by living together. I’m only saying that it’s better to get to know them – safely, without getting pregnant or getting involved in other long-term arrangements – before actually making the commitment of marriage.

In fact, with some types of people, e.g. narcissistic people, they’re known to pretend and not show their true colors until after the wedding day. They can be on their best behavior for an extended period of time, even up to a year, and then once you get married, they suddenly change, almost making a 180 deg turn.

Bill Eddy, social worker and lawyer in the family court, writes extensively about these kinds of people (he calls them high-conflict personalities, HCPs), and how to spot them already in the dating phase. You might want to read some of his articles, for example:

Dating Radar: 3 Ways to Spot Trouble Ahead
Dating? Why Wait a Year to Commit?
4 Red Flags of a High-Conflict Partner

(all of those articles are on psychologytoday dot com)

Problematic partners are those who blame others a lot, aren’t willing to admit their own mistakes, who don’t care about your feelings, who get into rage for minor disagreements, who you feel you cannot be yourself around because they get offended very easily, etc.

I think the last guy you were dating had some characteristics of a problematic partner: he would blame you and get offended if you asked valid questions about his business deals. He had no empathy for you when you got in trouble on the motorway but actually blamed you for the incident, and left you alone to deal with the problem. He abandoned you in times of need.

Anyway, something to keep in mind is that not even getting married is a guarantee for a healthy and happy marriage. Because some of the most problematic people might actually wait till the wedding day to show their true colors.

But as Billy Eddy says, certain behaviors give them away, such as love bombing, being too good to be true, pretending that they like the same things as you do (same taste in music, art, hobbies, etc), being unkind with “unimportant” people (unimportant in their eyes) such as waiters, while being extremely kind and polite with people they consider useful and important, etc.

I guess if you see a certain duplicity: that the person is kind and humble with certain people, while being rude and arrogant with other people (whom they consider “unimportant”) – that’s a big red flag.

There is some level of trust in me, but I still keep my guard up. As the elders always said, marriage -only marriage – opens the eyes, and love is blind. So until then, you have to keep your eyes wide open. After marriage, you are bound legally and in any other way, so better to make sure he is the person he says he is.

Yes, if our love is blind – if we don’t learn to recognize red flags in someone’s behavior and e.g. fall for their fake charm – then unfortunately the only thing that will open our eyes is marriage. That’s when they’ll show their true colors. But the goal is to have our “dating radar” working properly, so we can spot problematic people on time, before getting married.

And a part of that endeavor (of having a well-working dating radar) is to heal our childhood wounds. Because exactly our unmet emotional needs and subconscious fears is what can mess up with our dating radar. And that’s what I’m trying to stress – because that’s the key in picking a good partner. In addition to knowing what the red flags are and what behaviors to pay attention to.

There’s also a short and sweet video about relationship green flags, by Tess Brighman. It’s on youtube, if you want to check it out. Here’s what she says: the person listens to you, they have empathy, they have a level of self-awareness, you can count on them, and they treat people kindly.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions <3

Sending you lots of love! <3