@Maya back to my original point two broken people can not fix each other. It is not a great foundation for a solid relationship. There is always a dependency to a degree in relationships as partners should be able to lean on one another for support. However, it becomes draining if your partner seeks happiness or soothing solely through you. It is not healthy and indicates attachment issues. Everyone should be self-sufficient enough to cope or soothe themselves, it makes you more resilient.

Rather than trying to dissect the relationship focus on yourself and improve. If he does the same, you may get the opportunity to reconcile some point in the future. The main focus should now be on yourself. You can not change him, he needs to do that for himself. Whether he does/doesn’t is no longer your concern. As stated earlier you may come out of your own journey/growth no longer feeling you want him and a better idea of the type of relationship you require. The longer you try to figure him out as well as yourself the more damage you’ll do yourself and hinder the healing process.

You can not change what has happened, but you can change the outcome of your present and future.

Ahh doll, he was probably using the push/pull technique on your heartstrings. Immature or underdeveloped men play mind games. I’ve done it myself, you are not to blame, by its very nature these games lead to the woman falling hard without even realising. You see us men usually really do want true love, and down deep we crave companionship and know we would be happier more content and more sexually satisfied if we had a stable, good relationship. The bad news is we are also scared and tend to push real intimacy or commitment away. The root cause of this behaviour is we are full of FEAR and DOUBT.

Men can vary a great deal in just how stuck they are. But the vital question to ask is, “Is he willing to grow? That is, work his way out of his own self-sabotaging pattern?” If a guy is a good person who is attracted to you, self-reflective, working on his issues, and crazy about you, he is a keeper. Once again, no man is perfect. Of course, neither are you. So ask yourself: How much does this man want to have love, that is, love with you in his life? What is he willing to do or change to have that special, lasting experience?” These questions will tell you if it is worth fighting for or moving on.

If he is saying move along after your effort, take his word and leave him. If he has any sense he will do the work and fight. If he doesn’t he has proven to be incapable of change for you. During this time focus on yourself and finding happiness within, you will naturally come out the winner and may no longer want a fixer-upper.

Below are the variants of types of men who push-pull, I’ve copied and pasted to explain to you about their behaviour;

Five deadly dating patterns

1. The savior

He is a super-duper caretaker, a Mr. Fix-It who tries to be romantic too. Your happiness is his happiness. And he doesn’t have much happiness of his own. Underneath it all he is insecure and feels not good enough — so he seems clingy and smothering

Degree of difficulty: 4

If you are firm and he realizes he has to find his own happiness and stand up for himself or lose you, he will step up. Over time he could evolve into a great partner

2. The coward

He is afraid of honest straight talk and very afraid of conflict. If differences come up he pulls away and prefers to communicate by e-mail or texts

Degree of difficulty: 4

Many men have some degree of this pattern. You can breakthrough by using positive talk, where you present your concerns in a loving, warm, and clear way. Once you develop a way to navigate conflict, “the coward” can grow into a wonderful Mr. Right

3.The super romantic flame-out

He is totally on your wavelength and crazy about you from the very first e-mail or glance at your photo. Chances are he is a serial monogamist who has brief periods of being in mad, passionate love with you, then the next, and the next one, following the path of chemistry, wherever it may lead

Degree of difficulty: 8
Take it slow and easy to make him prove himself. If he doesn’t, be ready to bail.

4. The grass-is-greener type

He has a hard time making up his mind, like he is never sure that the job he has is really the best one for him. Online dating has made this pattern very common. Because there is such a smorgasbord of women, men with this inclination are constantly looking to see whether they can do better

Degree of difficulty: 8
If he is very true to type, he will be mortally terrified of “settling” — as in, settling down with you. It is usually best to move on before he does

5. The slacker

He has grand dreams and plans that have been just over the horizon for years. He may be cute and engaging as he passionately describes all that he is going to do. But this is the guy who consistently shoots himself in the foot so that he misses the finish line. He didn’t finish anything — not his degree, his new Web site, his new book, project or the very deal that will get him ahead

Degree of difficulty: 8
Unless he has started to seriously engage in therapy or coaching, you will not be able to rescue this guy. No, not even you

• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by Tim.

Felix,

Are you male/female? Either way, it is irrelevant, you must be feeling insecure if you a posting about it. Stop that line of thinking right now, stand up straight, nice and tall, and just walk with the height given. Be kind to yourself and believe you are more than 5’5 and you will ooze confidence. Your partner is out there, just always be respectful to people, take care of your health/hygiene, and learn to be comfortable with you because the right person will love you for who you are. Don’t waste your energy worrying about negative perceptions or tricking people you are taller, it is a waste of time. Meanwhile, focus on your goals and do well in life, height can not hold you back, only your mind can.

Tim

@Maya

That was a difficult read – paragraphs may help in future haha

From what I have gathered, you initiated a break up because your needs were not being met but you now regret your decision and are experiencing heartbreak? Well, it doesn’t seem like anything acrimonious has happened. It is a case of two broken people coming together and trying to fix one another instead of each individual fixing oneself first. I think if you respect his wishes for space and go and work on your issues and vice versa there is a chance you can both reconcile and build a stronger foundation for a relationship to flourish. Relationships do not work on love alone it takes a lot of effort and that is impossible if you are coming to the table with undealt baggage or issues.

Heartbreak itself is the worse pain imaginable, unlocatable so you find it harder to fix or nurture oneself as you would with a broken limb or open visible wound. I’ve been there, so this is going to sound tough but your behavior indicates attachment issues, and a need to get a grasp on your anxiety. I have been there, if you do not develop sufficient coping mechanisms and discover where these thoughts are arising from you will just continue to behave in a self-sabotaging manner, irrationally and based on your fears which leads to toxicity in relationships. So if you love this man, and want it to work the best thing to do right now is step away and work on your issues, it is no longer about him. Until you can learn to be self-sufficient, love yourself, more in control of your emotions I suggest you steer clear of relationships because if you continue as you are you will do more damage to yourself in the long run.

This is also your first relationship so I sympathise, when you have never experienced emotions like this it can be overwhelming to learn to label your emotions and sit with them rather than being so reactionary. Develop your emotional intelligence, this helps to be more tactful and self-aware. You are getting therapy so you clearly are someone who wants to grow. So do just that focus on your growth and everything else will fall into place. Dwelling on things outside of your control will just hinder your development. Someone putting themselves first is not a reflection on you, it is just self-love in this scenario. He comes across as a man who wants to be fully emotionally available to a person he is in a relationship with rather than someone selfish that only cares about his own needs. Allow him the space to do that.

Top tip from a man; pestering a man when he wants space will just make him lose attraction and do you no favours.

Good luck doll.

Tim

@Lula

First things first. I am going to give you a male pov, it will be blunt but hard facts.

The reality is he is an emotionally immature boy who has taken advantage of your feelings for him and used you because he doesn’t know what he wants. He knows you want him, even a fool would pick up on the clues after 4 years so do not try to excuse his behavior. You are a good person so want to see the good in him but the reality is he had his foot in both camps. He is using you as a backup option. If there was an ex still in the picture he most likely is not over her and you filled or plugged the gap/void nicely and if she never returned you would have been the backup. She has returned so now you are the emotional support when things go shit with them two.

If he is talking to you with romantic overtures with no intent to pursue that alone proves he is a jerk. In addition if he is treating you like that whilst with his ex it demonstrates a lack of respect to both you and her.

Do you really want an emotionally stunted man child?

You have been complicit in this, 4 years is a ridiculous amount of time to spend investing in someone who has no regard for your feelings.

You need to walk away for your own sanity, this has already eroded your self worth. You are happy to stay in waiting for someone’s breadcrumbs. Do you not deserve a man who will love you and show you? Yes, you should tell him exactly how you feel so he knows it is not acceptable and he learns. I’m afraid by you putting up with it for 4 years means he will never change his behavior with you if you remain together, he knows how far he can go. Maybe he will improve for his future relationships if he is good as you say.

If you have really fallen in love, set him free. You will be happy for him. That is selfless love. Then move on, love yourself so you never allow a man to treat you like this again. He is not giving you anything other than pain and damaging your self-worth further each day you spend with him.

Tim

No worries Lothar, just know we can not use the pandemic as an excuse for our behavior or blame it for conjuring up emotions from thin air as many are. These feelings were always there, suppressed, now they have surfaced, deal with them in a mature manner.  If you want to just right wrongs then get your wife to reach out and state that. Involve her in the process, have the discussion. Then forgive yourself and trust in the process that you are where you are meant to be. If it had been a year or so then I can see the need to pursue a missed opportunity. 34 years later whilst married, I’d seriously be assessing my intentions and trying to think more logically before I messed up what I had.

@Lucie

There are many wonderful people on this thread and forum who would gladly help you. You can take all the time you need but know you don’t have to do it alone. If it was scenario 1 then I can only reiterate from my own past the sooner you let go the quicker you will heal. I do not think it is wise to go back into a toxic relationship but if you feel it is something you need to do, then you will. Just think about it logically, try to remove emotions. Will the outcome be the same and set you back and deepen those wounds? If so, do not do that to yourself. Just my advice based on the very little background I have. You can ask me anything at any time. Good luck doll.

@Sammy

Thanks for the good energy, the interviews have gone well, so fingers crossed!

I shall not deny it, I’ve seen them all. “When Harry met Sally” is one of the few which is realistic. What has my life come to? Discussing rom coms over the interweb haha! My dear sister has a lot to answer for, but it helps score points with the ladies.

I think although you are not able to see it right now, you are actually going through a transformation that will make you a more resilient and better version of yourself, often it takes something significant or someone significant to really get you to look inwards and do some soul searching. You had clearly become stagnant in all elements of your life, which includes your ex and all other connections etc. I experienced the same and knew to evolve it meant letting go of deadwood and change is good.

When I tried to kick the gambling and alcohol to the curb, some friends were unsupportive or negative influences. I was a people pleaser, still am to a degree but I have learned to set better boundaries. I let go of people who never helped me become a better individual or made the effort to support me in any form. I may have a smaller circle but it is consists of genuine people who are honest, transparent, caring, and demonstrate reciprocity. I have people in my life who helped build me back up after I took an unimaginable spiral to a very bleak place and it those people I’ll never lose. When I look back now, the whole experience is humbling.

A lot of men I must admit believe they need to be established so a woman is not a burden. Some men also feel very threatened if the woman is highly successful, the ego can come into play. The irony is the men who have achieved greatness throughout history did it with a strong woman by their side. I have matured emotionally, I have developed my EI.

So even though I lost my job, I do not feel it is a worry in regards to my relationship, my current partner has a good career but has never made me feel inadequate, I have had enough therapy to now know not to project pr let my own insecurities play havoc on my relationship. She also has the emotional intelligence and sensed my anxiety when I lost my job, one simple sentence made a significant difference she said:  “It was a minor setback and I am known for my comebacks.” Simple affirmations like that are so important. I now live by the rule those who can not accept me at my lowest, do not deserve me at my best, I let go of a lot of people including my ex and I have evolved into a much better human as a result of my knockbacks and that is what you should focus on Sammy. YOU. It will lead you to become a stronger, wiser, and happier person.

For a long time, I was immature, I thought to feel essential I needed to provide a woman with money, gifts, etc but the right woman (my current partner) wants a man’s time, effort, honesty, and choosing her as a priority. So in return, I do offer that but never at the expense of my own needs, which is why this relationship has felt so much healthier after overcoming the initial fears and doubts. It is balanced. My ex I treated like a queen at the expense of myself, she still left me.

I think you are at a point you can hear this, again just a male point of view, do not need to accept just consider, I’d be interested in all your ladies’ perspective too, challenge me if I’m wrong (@Sammy, @Kkasxo, @Shelbyville )

My current partner demonstrated a lot of compassion when she met me, I was still on my journey, when she realised she was not having her needs met she walked away and although she tells me now she felt awful, she believes it is what made us and I couldn’t agree more.

I did feel abandoned by her she supposedly meant to be different and care. However, therapy made me reassess a lot as previously noted. In turn, it made me want her not need her, I ended up respecting her more for not settling for less so she became even more attractive because she had the foresight to see if she continued to coddle me we would never have got to a place of even footing, which is important to men.

Men have egos unfortunately they are easily threatened, we do have an innate need to be the strong ones/hero in a relationship, so when you have a strong woman who is capable of everything whilst you feel a mess it inadvertently makes us feel inferior if you continue to coddle. My current partner knew what she wanted (non-casual relationship) and knew she deserved more and decided not to accept less. I worked damn hard on myself and got to a point where I felt challenged, I wanted to chase and court her all over again but this time with intent, I wasn’t going to give up without a fight, but I accepted the risk of rejection, I accepted she had control, I accepted if I didn’t end up with her at least she had got me to a place to be better for the next person.

So never keep giving to a man as you did with your ex, if like most men ( boys at this stage is more apt) he is not emotionally developed enough to appreciate and commit to a good woman when he has her, he will still want to keep you around without any commitment but that should tell you he is immature, selfish, has become comfortable, and is taking you for granted. I know it is a good woman’s natural instinct to care and give more but if he is not reciprocating, walk away never let him use, drain and deplete your self-esteem completely and then put the cherry on top by leaving you too. This is a mistake you made, do not make it again.

If you are ever in this position again, leave, if he has any sense he will look inwards and return a better version just as I did for my current partner. If you really love and see something worth fighting for then give him that ONE CHANCE – for boys it takes months to even realise our mistakes let alone work on ourselves. If he hasn’t become that better version never accept less, you gave too many chances doll to your ex after that 6-month break, he proved he wasn’t going to change, you should have left, he did not deserve you and left you questioning your value and worth. Never do that to yourself again. Love yourself enough to walk away if your needs are not met, it doesn’t make you a bad person for loving yourself first. A real developed man will never give up on a good woman who reciprocated. Real men who have a woman who stands by him at his lowest, will always love her, he will never risk losing her. If he does he is a jerk, doesn’t know what he wants, and until he does soul searching he never will and most likely will continue to perpetuate the toxic cycle. THIS IS COMING FROM A MAN!

If you are hearing through the grapevine your ex is dating, let him, I guarantee you he will have not done any work on himself if he is moving on so fast. Men are wired to hunt and have an intrinsic motivation to get better. Take peace in knowing the day will come maybe 5 years from now or at some point in the future, but it will come it always does, he will realise what he lost, he will regret his choices.

Men go into shutdown, we do not admit our regret right away, we ignore these emotions. We do not have the emotional maturity until we have gone on our journey. How long that takes to happen, varies for each individual, some never do, but those who have chosen to grow, it is a given. Why? Because real good women are irreplaceable and hard to come by. There is plenty of fish in the sea but when you are no longer a spring chicken you realise the foolishness in letting go of a woman who offered emotional nourishment etc. you will one day understand the folly of your decision of being selfish, will realise you had the woman who loved you the most before you had found yourself and made it in life, the one who would have stood by your side through everything. You will regret losing this woman because the other women who will love you when you’re at your best may easily say goodbye to you when they see you at your low points (these lows are inevitable). The new woman can easily move on when she sees that you’re not as perfect as she once thought you were. These thoughts flood a mans head and at some point, sooner or later, a man will learn that the purpose of his goals is to contribute back to society, that real relationships are what matters in life, not money, not the career goals and it’s not about taking from those relationships, it is having the humility to be vulnerable and nurturing one with a good woman.

I would like your views ladies @Sammy, @Kkasxo, @Shelbyville…I’m fascinated, many of the female figures in my life have said with women, they tend to be more emotionally mature than men and know what they want. They never regret their decision to walk away from a good man, because for them to leave a good man it takes a lot more than a man to leave a good woman, they really ponder over their decisions but once it is made, they are done and know there is fundamentally something wrong; to quote the women “no attraction, no love, he is not the one.” The only time they will ever come back is when they have been dumped (this is what happened with my ex) and need an ego boost from someone they think will still be pining and wanting to do anything for them, my ex was shocked when she learned I no longer did. My current partner even said she had no regret, felt awful to split up initially as it went against her natural instincts to nurture but she knew she deserved the best so never looked back and effectively kept dating and living. When the moment presented itself she gave me a chance because she always knew I was a good man, felt there was a strong connection, and could see I had just needed time to grow. Otherwise, women never look back. Is this true?

I think you are a very smart individual, Sammy, I do not think it is necessary for you to go to therapy and you have a lot of reservations which means you will probably construct further walls when in a sesssion. So considering you have a person at hand who you trust with a psychology background (best friend) and this forum to give you insights from our anecdotal evidence/experience. A great way to turn your anger into positive energy is to channel it into a project or something you are passionate about. Out of all the emotions, anger is one of the strongest emotions we feel and most useful in heartbreak. If you use it to motivate and drive you forward whilst you are feeling it, it will help you overcome that big hurdle of looking back at your ex and questioning it all. Soon you will be so engrossed in working towards your goal that you will naturally lead to a place of indifference without even realising. When you are there, you will look at yourself, the new environment you have created, the new you and the new circle and only want to bring positive energy to it. You will naturally attract better. All the pain experienced will just be lessons on what to avoid in future relationships and what you need.

I think deep down you already have that self-worth it just got buried under the baggage of holding onto a toxic relationship, you are determined enough and just need that push. That push will not come from alcohol, that push will not come from knowing what your ex is up to, that push will not come from pity. It will come from the anger that you are done from being tired of all the shit, it is there use it. Push forward. Cut all the trash in your life and recentre yourself. You can do this Sammy!

You are very receptive, look how quickly you took on @Shelbyville advice. That shows you want to move forward.

I also have some news I will share with you in a few days time, once I hear back from my job interviews. I will definitely be needing you help ladies @KKasxo, @Shelbyville and @Sammy so watch this space. I hope you can help.

@Kkasxo – Haha, I feel the same at times, the pain I could have avoided if I had some sound neutral female advice to navigate the ex! You are welcome to use and abuse my assistance anytime! You seem to have turned a major corner, so kudos to you!

@Lucie – My offer still stands, I am of the opinion we should always give back. So I’m happy to cut into my sessions to ask any hypotheticals. @Kkasxo has given you some excellent insight there, I hope it helps and any other guidance required do ask. Without you having touched upon any of your story/ background, I will give you a few answers to your question, you can then assess which one best fits your circumstances.

If someone hurt you can you really trust or be close to someone again?

Trust is broken when a partner puts their own needs and desires ahead of what’s best for your relationship. Trust is also damaged when partners break their promises or violate important expectations. It takes a lot of work to regain trust and in certain circumstances once broken it is irreparable so trying to repair it will do you damage such as;

Scenario 1: TOXIC relationship – manipulation, gaslighting, stonewalling (these are all forms of emotional abuse), and/or physical abuse.

Once you have been exposed to this or seen any red flags indicating a partner has these toxic tendencies, walk away, block, and never look back for your own sanity. This is easier said than done because toxic relationships by their very nature leave your self-esteem decimated and believing you’ll never be able to start fresh again or this is all you are worthy of, so you keep going back to a person who continues to abuse your trust. With healing and growth, you can let go, I have done it and countless others. It takes willpower and courage. With physical violence, if the situation has escalated and you feel it is dangerous to remove yourself immediately, seek help to create a safety plan through domestic abuse channels/law enforcement.

Scenario 2: Cheating

Any partner who cheats has issues such as dissatisfaction emotionally/ low self-esteem./sex addiction, etc – instead of communicating to resolve it with their partner they cheat without even contemplating the impact of their action. Cheats are emotionally stunted. Again leave, and walk away for good, very few undergo therapy/rehab/growth so most will continue to hurt if you stay, they will do it again because you have now become complicit to their behavior. You have indicated how far they can push the boundaries and you will still be willing to return. Again, when you walk away initially you will blame yourself, but it will be the best thing for your own emotional health.

Sometimes it is US. We feel hurt eg; 

Scenario 3: Feeling hurt due to High Expectations, Control issues, Fears or Baggage

Now with this scenario, it is possible to feel hurt but remain close to your partner by working on yourself. Sometimes in life, we have baggage, fears, high/unrealistic (key killer) expectations,  and a lack of empathy for our partners so we feel hurt by their response to a certain scenario without looking at the bigger picture – does my partner on the majority of occasions show attentiveness, love, care, selflessness, wants to nurture the relationship or work on any mistakes? If the answer is yes, the reason you are feeling let down is YOU. The simplest solution to resolving this is introspection and communication. An example, my current partner, I felt very hurt and abandoned when she walked away, but it was my lack of vulnerability due to past baggage, my projections, etc which led her there. To blame her for the issues and not work through it would have resulted in me losing the opportunity of having a good woman by my side. We are all humans, we will make mistakes and let one another down but in a relationship it is about balance, picking up the slack on occasion as long as overall both are committed to growing the love and relationship. Manage expectations, assess the situation from both perspectives and as long as the person has not let you down consistently in a significant way I think a reality check should be carried out to check the validity of our thoughts, to prevent throwing away a perfectly normal relationship. A good link I checked out when getting back into a new relationship as I had put up walls which were causing me to behave in ways to protect myself but having a negative impact on my connection with my partner. https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/counselling/feeling-let-down.htm

You have two choices: victimisation or resiliency to any hardship in life. Support is an essential component of a healthy relationship but do not rely fully on your partner to react to your needs in an exact way(control) or begin to look for security or validation in their actions. Be resilient and self-sufficient too so when you are faced with a scenario your partner can not be 100% there for you, you do not start to self victimise and feel hurt/abandoned like I was.

Hope that helps doll.