@Dannydan (and @Sammy1)

No offense but searching up and simulating prompts into why he put ‘love’ instead of ‘live’ in his response is a tad obsessive? Don’t do that to yourself! It’s a slippery slope.

I think although you state you are over him, I can sense you are still looking for some glimmer of hope. That may be more to do with the feeling of rejection than actually wanting to reconcile though.

Ha-ha, Danny, no offence, but the romantic in me in the deep unconsciousness was definitely looking for a glimmer of hope after you described how you had told our B that you thought she would contact you first! 😊

I have been searching and I think I found it – what the overall outcome of that meeting was.

Yes, I would expect him to have seen me in a different light now that five years have passed.

Certainly, I don’t know what he will make of it.

I had to get used to the new him (not appearance-wise), quiet and all and not on edge because of my presence.

(Or am I wrong again? I had one guy courting me. I thought I couldn’t tell what he was thinking of me. Not that I cared – I felt that terrible aversion to him and was wondering how he couldn’t feel it. However, when after Date 2 I told him I could only be friends with him, he thanked for being so upfront because other ladies had been stringing him along with no feelings for him. I thought he might want to remain friends – out of hope to win me over eventually. But he disappeared out of my life just like that. I now think that he really, really liked me. And I couldn’t tell for the life of me at the moment! Again, not that I would have cared then or care now.)

This meeting was supposed to the closing chapter in our relationship, whatever it was, the “summing up.”

When I look back now that one week has passed, it feels more like a first date, only I (can’t speak for the other party) can’t really say whether I am hoping he would ask me on a second date or not. If he did, I would accept; if he didn’t, I am totally okay with it.

I can’t fault Sammy’s insight, it is on the money mostly.

Yes, and thank you @Sammy1 – I reread your post every single day this past week. For two or three days it really felt like a full-fledged breakup similar to the two most memorable that I have had in my life.

I have never given in to the temptation of visualising our life together, but a few images had creeped into my head – I admit that. I felt we could have so much fun together, learn so much from each other… And I certainly liked the way it felt to be with him. I need to leave that aside and let it sink that those images were just that – fantasies. No telling if everything would have turned out like I had imagined. Just let go.

I’m not saying give sex to a guy, quite the opposite the fact you didn’t have sex is actually a good thing. I know I respect a woman more when she isn’t easy and is selective

Again, Danny, you are confirming what I read in some of the books on male psyche!

but if a man only has that as his goal for you he will definitely lose interest fast! Sad facts!

True, but – and this is what left me wondering for a good many year!

He texted me the very next morning after our cuddling asking me how I felt after the sleepless night. (I had been wondering how soon I would hear from him if at all.)

And we would continue communicating on the same level of intensity for over a month.

Then he had that quarrel with his wife when he wanted to crash on my floor.

I replied to him then that “My house was his house.” He said “Thank you, my NBC.” (And then he said he wouldn’t come.)

We met for a walk some time later. I don’t remember how the conversation brought me to this, but I actually did say that it would be cool to live under the same roof – that way we could speak one language one day, another one on another day and so on. (He speaks three of the languages that I speak.)

Some time later again, when we met again, he asked me whether I was his. When I asked him later what he had meant by that, he said that he hadn’t meant anything like that, he had wanted to say something nice.

And our interaction was still undying!

Some time after that he would throw in “We need to talk,” “We need to talk”, but making no effort to schedule the talk after I said ready anytime. That was when he joked about ‘pillow talk.’ Hey, we even discussed the Fifty Shades of Grey!

And then I was going on a holiday inviting him over in jest.

He said, “Man, I’d love to.”

Then the day I arrived at my destination, he texted me asking how my holiday was going.

But it was some time into that two-week holiday that he stopped asking questions, initiating interaction and when everything basically died.

Right after the holiday, I met him at work. He asked me how my holiday had been. A couple of hours after the meeting he texted me asking whether I was still at work. I said no, gone home already. I thought he would ask for a meeting or maybe even come over to my place, but he didn’t add anything.

Then two months later I saw a fresh picture of his wife and him with their wedding rings on.

He would text me a couple of more times that “Are you still around?” text.

That is when I made a few attempts to recover what had been to no avail.

Followed by my ‘confession.’ And his yet one more “I am still here”. Which sounded (probably without any ground for it) as a promise to come back to me when he is a free man.

That’s the big picture of our timeline.

I also might add that I was very cautious about what exactly I was writing to him because I had read that lawyers could even use email correspondence like that in cases of bitter divorce.

So given the intensity of communication plus those sudden resurgences of “Where are you? Still here?” afterwards made me think that he was still battling his “duty” and desire for divorce.

Now that he tells me in cold blood that he was already looking for somebody and thought I would fit the part, but then changed his mind, is certainly a revelation.

@Sammy1’s words that sharing some of the info that he shared is normally done in intimate relationships helped me to see that I hadn’t imagined the emotional intimacy. No matter what it led on to later on or didn’t.

I doubt he thought you were promiscuous, you didn’t even have sex. However, he may think that about you out of anger or feel not enough himself if you are very attractive and he is insecure. I.e. Old Danny conjured up all sorts of negative false scenarios. I at one point believed egged on by the lads, ‘B’ was cockteasing and playing me.

Well, frankly, Danny, I am afraid that if one wanted, one could easily think that I was inviting him over exactly to have sex. Or then putting blankly that it would be cool to live together.

I mean that if he had wanted to take advantage of me, he could certainly see lots of green lights. (Not that I was going to cede to him – I swear I was not going to have sex with him until his marriage situationship had been cleared out.)

I’m not supporting his actions, what he did was wrong but I personally think if you want a deeper understanding of men, reducing it down to “he just wasn’t into you” will not help.  Men have emotions sometimes due to our lack of emotional regulation and intelligence we mess up.

That’s what’s confusing! I thought he was messed up, but now he tells me that he was in his sound mind looking for new partner, and there was something about me that wasn’t sitting right with him!

In fact, this is what is significantly contributing to my healing. I can forgive lots of things done in a state of emotional turmoil (despite the fact that I myself would probably still keep my composure and behave decently), but I have trouble forgiving that, which is normally not done by ‘civilised’ people, by somebody who is totally in control of their abilities, when there is no possibility to make allowances for the emotional state of the person in question.

Just to give you some insight you will be shocked at how often us men appear outwardly confident but are actually deeply insecure.

I know about this in theory. I think I can distinguish between true and false confidence, but I am not sure. Have never been attracted by cocky men. Have always preferred calmly and quietly assured. (But learnt that that can be false appearance, too.)

 We often want the emotional connection and to also feel safe. However because we are not accustomed to that support when we get it, we feel internally something is off.

And this somehow rings very true!

You know, what I would really love to know is whether NBC-version ’21 is not NBC-version five years ago and whether ‘B’ is the same or different. Unfortunately, no such authority exists.

Instead typically what has played out is the woman who is good and offers emotional support, somehow attraction becomes dampened because we feel emasculated further.

These type of men often are very attentive and kind but always end up wanting a woman who treats them mean or aggressively. However they are never happy, take note this has NOTHING to do with you , but deep seated issues either in form of mummy issues or from previous relationship experience.

Again, you have definitely stumbled upon something! I knew that in theory, but it never occurred to me to apply that to B!

And of course, there is nothing I can do about it here. No way I can help him. Some things can only be done by the person himself.

I was one of them types, but Sammy is right unfortunately not many men are willing to change or look inwardly. If you try to be with them thinking you’ll change them let me tell you, you’ll always lose.

What I have also learnt as time passes is that people hardly ever change. It takes some very significant push from the outside (breakup, trauma, illness, etc.) for somebody to change. Sad, but true.

And no, I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to change whomever!

Unfortunately, I am more of the type who would be busy doing her own thing, but at the same time quietly waiting hoping for the tides to change and for the reformed man to come to her. I do get tired of waiting eventually. And I am afraid I waste time doing it. But on the flip side, I can’t really become interested in anybody else until the interest in that other person has waned with time… The only thing I feel I can do is look for means to speed up the process. But I can’t be ready until I am ready.

The fact he met you although no consolation does mean he likes you. Maybe he thought you were marriage material and he wanted casual flings as distraction. Who knows?!

You mean now? Or when he was married and we met five years ago?

He did say that he didn’t want to marry, but that was five years ago.

And then I was confused last week when he said he couldn’t see any future with me and so started to back away five years ago. Long-term casual future??? Or just one more proof that he was indeed a mess five years ago no matter how much he may be trying to convince me of the opposite now? Oh wait, he did say last week he had been a mess! How come then he could decide then five years ago in a sound and sane way whether I was the one or not???

I have read so many different stories now that I fully abide by the saying that when somebody tells you what or who she or he is, believe it. He said at least two times, when our ‘active phase’ was over, that he liked me. I have to go with that.

But given that he decided not to develop it further, not to build upon this attraction (such as what you say gives rise to feelings – more proximity, more time together, getting to know each other – right?), I have to contend that “he was into me, but just not that much into me.”

I can of course hope that he will see it in time how special our emotional connection was, but after this meeting, I feel that he is further from this realisation than he ever was before. I was already starting to have doubts about his original ‘promise” (which was no promise in reality) to get back together after the divorce now that so much time had passed. After our meeting, I know that the chance is even slimmer than the slim chance I thought it was.

I simply cant’ count on that in whatever degree. And I can’t make him see it.

So thank you again, @Dannydan and @Sammy1 for pushing me to make him come out into the light.

@Dannydan, if you don’t mind my asking, how old are you?

Him mentioning he has a girlfriend may be the truth and he wanted to avoid awkwardness, on the flip side it can also be game playing to see if it evokes jealousy and to get you to admit any remaining feelings first, form of control. It is what insecurity does to you. You constantly feel the need to protect oneself or have the upper hand. Childish really, but not beyond a man if he’s insecure.

Well, somehow I think it is true about the girlfriend.

One, I would really love for that girl who had fallen for him more than ten years ago to get her happily ever after (if it is her and if this ‘happily ever after’ is possible for them as they are now).

And two. He is divorced, comfortably retired, in his own house with a golden retriever, two grown-up kids are with their mother, dabbles in motivational speaking after a successful career, charming, witty and good-looking. I mean the queue of women wanting to be with him would encircle the globe five times if not more! And he was starved for female attention even five years ago – he thanked me for cuddling saying it had been nice to have a woman’s arms around him.

I do think he has a girlfriend, only I truly don’t know if he is ready for it.

And you are right, he hasn’t done any ‘homework”!

That is what you need to be wary of. If he has a change of heart, be sure it’s because he wants a serious commitment.

Why? Why can’t he turn again to me just to get an ego boost?

Or he would have a long time ago, given what I have shared?

You know, the only thing that I don’t know if I should have done differently when we met last week is talk in more detail about how hurt and slighted I felt by his ghosting me. But I don’t like to complain or be a crybaby.

I am also wondering if I should have talked in more detail about what specifically in his treatment (concrete words, phrases, texts like that) threw me off five years ago? But then I did tell him that he was confusing (he agreed – gosh, he even took that word – “confusing” – out of my mouth!) and ambiguous, that I even had made a list trying to balance things against each other (pros and cons) and still couldn’t get a clear picture of what was taking place.

Maybe if I had been more vocal, that would have been a bigger push for him to think about what he had done?

Or if he is ‘enlightened’ enough, this meeting and me mentioning my ‘hurt’ should have been enough?

Danny and Sammy, you don’t even realise of how much help you are!!!