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Trying to deal with anxiety and loss after relationship break up

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  • #374850
    Danny
    Participant

    @Sammy good to hear from you mate. No news from my homie @Kkasxo, I do hope Covid hasn’t taken its toll!

    Thanks for the appreciation! Men rarely hear it but I’m learning to accept it ever since being with ‘B’ – one of the things I now love the most she isn’t afraid to express her appreciation of me and reaffirm my achievements.

    I have a good vibe about this new relationship for you. You’ve done the self work mate that’s the hardest part now reap the rewards and continue building on that, don’t let fears undo it all.

    I think with your new potential the desire is definitely there especially if you are feeling you can’t keep your hands off him. Feeling that feeling again is exciting in itself!

    Sometimes what we need has always been right there but we avoid realising it due to our reinforced toxic relationship patterns. It often takes real self healing and inner work to realise what is good for us. So I don’t find it strange at all that you see him now as potential romantically.

    I’d take the delayed gratification approach which will help you both develop a bond or union that’s based on a stronger foundation not lust. By that I don’t mean be cruel, work him up and blow him off to test him but explain your concerns that you want to be exclusive (giving him security you are serious) pbut slow so you don’t crash and burn, if a man is serious in return he will understand and work with you. Not rush or push you. That will naturally heighten the original attraction itself ten folds because you’ll both know where you stand (no anxiety ruining it) and you’ll just focus on the moments and naturally growing the relationship together.

    Slow and steady really does win the race. For me it’s been an excellent exercise in self control!

    I got to return to work but thought I’d give you a quick reply. Go for it!

     

    #375046
    Sammy
    Participant

    @Danny don’t say that- stay positive!! I’m sure of it, she is kicking ass and fought off Covid and just working on self healing🤞

    @Kkasxo sending you all the love and warmth to heal you. I hope you read this and know we’re thinking of you and when ready post back.

    @Shelbyville you too, respect your need for space and hope one day you may log back in and post again so we know you’re okay and anxiety didn’t win!

    You know I have realised even with online virtual communication I get attached. I do consider you my buddies and wonder how you are doing. Thats normal right?

    There’s another thread I posted on by @Mute and I hope he/she is okay. But the lack of reply makes me wonder.

    @teaK you posted on there and you have good advice to offer. Any advice on how to not get too attached?  And to fully overcome the fears which arose from being in an anxious/avoidant relationship in the past. I noticed you are married now and that’s what I want for myself but don’t want to ruin it by rushing in if I need more work.

     

    @Danny thanks again for all the support and the great advice. I’m just worried if I take it too slow out of fear, that the opposite of what you said will happen I’ll inevitably kill the attraction? Ahh it’s like starting first day of school or something, I’m just so jittery or feel out of touch lol!

    #375106
    Danny
    Participant

    @Sammy mate, understand the attachment you describe. I think when you just vibe or someone has gone to lengths to help you, you can’t help but be invested in returning that favour or checking they’re progressing. It’s a good trait shows you care so don’t lose it. Just be cautious that it doesn’t hurt you in anyway that’s why a little detachment is good for us all.

    Which brings me to my next point. I think I’ve served this thread as much as I can at this point. @NBC seems quiet so that I hope is a positive sign that she is moving her life forward. @Kkasxo I too hope is healing and taken the reins to do what’s best for her. @Tim1 I hope is excited about the impending birth or enjoying fatherhood. @Shelbyville the OG , hope she has found her one. Is stable and one day comes back to conclude her story.

    I think you are very smart, self aware and I wish you the very best in this new adventure. Seize the moment and just let go of your fears. Ultimately if he is good for you, you’ll not need to question it for long or worry about attraction fading. Allow it to develop, feel the change, you’ll see you are stepping up, growing and spurred to be a better person each day. There will be a positive effect on your life in all areas; relationships, work , productivity, spiritually. Thats a healthy relationship.

    If at any stage you get overwhelmed, you can @ me and I’ll respond to the notification. But for now I don’t have the time to leisurely check in like I have been.

    Thank you for all your encouragement and support in helping me become a better human. Thank you for being fair and balanced always.

    Wishing you happiness and positive vibes!

    #375115
    Sammy
    Participant

    @Dannydan (tagged you properly so you read this – no reply necessary)

    You didn’t owe anyone anything but to return their kindness and give your time shows how far you’ve come. It marks your appreciation for others.

    Thanks for sticking around for me when it wasn’t necessary but I’ve learned an awful lot from this thread and from you too.

    You did the work by taking the feedback which at times was confronting and you changed your bad habits and made amends. I hope your nuptials with ‘B’ cement what sounds like a beautiful beautiful union. I hope one day to read your ending or beginning even.. Wishing you both a very bright future and happiness. So thankful that there are men who can overcome their egos and evolve against all odds, who take accountability and address emotions. You inspired me to find love again, you inspired me not to become bitter by my past. You and Tim restored my faith in men. ❤

    Good luck Danny in finding your forever home together and I hope your nuptials are just as magical as your proposal!

    You’ve all been great and I have no choice but to check out. (I don’t wish to reach the heights of madness – talking to myself Lol)

    I do hope everyone is doing as well as can be in their lives, some time soon to read your progress as you touched my life. Sending you all warmth and positivity @Shelbyville @Kkasxo @Tim1 @Luciel @Rhaenys @Aiyanahenderson @Mute @Adelaide1 @Michelle @Anita @Genie xxx

     

     

    #375180
    NBC
    Participant

    @Dannydan and @Sammy1

     

    Sorry for the silence. I reread your responses several times and several times I didn’t find anything to say. Everything is true, you are all right.

    And then – as usual with me – a confluence of events happened. First, a married friend of mine ran an errand for me and left a bouquet of flowers. Just because. Very sweet.

    Second, a disabled man, old enough to be my father, from an opendoor class that I attend, expressly offered me his assistance twice. He didn’t insist when I said that first, I’d like to figure things out on my own, but it was very sweet, too. Not creepy at all like with some other men before, just very sweet. And I remember how we locked our eyes for a split second. Wouldn’t be surprised if he is a little bit in love with me. Poor fellow! And poor me, old soul! I am afraid I really have to wait 20+ years before I find some old gentleman who will really “see” me…

    Third, the day before yesterday was my Christian friend’s birthday. He is out of town at the moment, and I felt really well emailing him some local news.

    And fourth, the day before yesterday, a strange mood came upon me. That the world is your oyster. And all of a sudden I decided to text B. I thought that nothing prevented me from visiting the place where he had studied on my trip in the autumn, if it came to be, even if we had talked before that.

    So I sent a casual text saying that I’d like to meet him in person.

    As usual, his reply came in quick enough and as usual, was confusing. “Of course. I love in Z.” Typical because he rushed and hadn’t read it before hitting send. Confusing because he meant to say ‘live.’ But why did he put ‘love’? I even tested the prompts – would if offer ‘live’ or ‘love’ first? Or did ‘love’ came up for him because he had been using it often? True, he usually says “I’d love to” rather than “I’d like to.” Or was it because he had used it in “I love you’s”?

    Anyway.

    I responded with when and where I’d like to meet.

    And as before, after his first response, nothing came in all evening. Nor did he reply during the night. So I texted again in the morning.

    To my surprise, he did reply.

    And we even met.

    And he chose not to wear a mask (we met in a park). But he wore sunglasses and the sun was shining at a 90-degree angle, so I don’t know if he had ever blushed during our conversation.

    In short, I really wish we, women, were deaf and blind. Deaf so that we wouldn’t be able to hear the sweet nothings that men utter. And blind so we wouldn’t be able to read all the nonsense they write to us.

    So that we can judge the men solely by their actions.

    And if you have doubts, then it is the proverbial “He is just not that into you.” If a man wants to be with you, he will move heaven and earth to achieve it. It is another story for how long you’ll be together. And there are all sorts of stories about married men divorcing for somebody else, marrying the new love at once or not at all at once and similarly all sorts of outcomes, from a life together till the very end to a divorce in one year’s time. So who knows what would have happened had he divorced then, right when in one chat he said that we wouldn’t drag anything out back in 2015?

    I never told you the reason for his divorce. In 2010, he fell in love with somebody else. I don’t know who it was, how far they went, how long it lasted, why they split. His wife tried to repair the damage more or less single-handedly for ten years. Never worked out. I have no idea why he didn’t divorce his wife of 20 years for that girl because in 2015 he mentioned in passing that he was still thinking about her.

    @Sammy1, @Dannydan, I know, I know – one more reason not to regret that we are not together.

    But back to our conversation.

    He did glance me up and down. I think he liked the way I looked, but of course, I wouldn’t know. Because of that sun and those glasses.

    Recognised my car, noticed a not-so-fresh dent in it, which wasn’t there five years ago.

    Had texted me a map of how to get to the park after I had texted that I was not sure I’d find the right entrance.

    He put on weight. Not enough to put me off (I have liked all sorts of men in my life), but more on my feelings below.

    I didn’t prepare a speech. I just wanted to make three points:

    • Thanks for coming.

     

    As I described our texting mode after him pulling away, I was ready for anything.

     

    • What was it that made you communicate with me so intensely and then pull away? Was I right thinking that there was some deep connection?

    To a degree. He liked me, he still does. But at some point (oh men – and here again I call on @Dannydan with his male mind), he decided we were not a good match. That is when he pulled away.

    (Interesting that at some point (before) he had mentioned that he was one of those men who don’t experience the extremes feeling-wise. He neither experiences acute joy or deep sorrow. I am not sure how this correlates with his apparent rashness in some things. But it turned out he was right in 2015 – that he would divorce his wife. It did take them some more time and at least one more reunion (when I think he pulled away from me), but he did divorce her. I also have reason to suspect that he can be very passive aggressive and that is how he behaved towards her.)

    He also said that 2016 was the year when he got divorced. I am not sure I believe him there. Or maybe he didn’t word his thoughts carefully. I know that two months after he stopped writing to me, he put his wedding ring back on and wore it for three or four months. He went on a holiday alone that year right before retiring. And his wife removed their picture together from FB only in the middle of 2017. And he moved out only in the beginning of 2019 – when his daughter had turned 18. And sometime in 2020, his wife put “single” as her status. So I am not at all sure about “divorce in 2016.” Furthermore, when he texted me in late 2016 and then replied to my confession in June 2017, he mentioned both times that it was still a mess with his wife.

    But I don’t doubt his words that that was his most difficult year. I also wonder if he somehow associates me with that challenging period in his life and so buried it in his memory and was over and done with it?

    I can’t really blame him for not really remembering the events of 2015-2016. I for one tend to forget painful details, remembering only the lesson, i. e. don’t approach XYZ and that’s it.

    When I said that I had felt him avoiding me, blushing and cutting my attempts to communicate short later on, he didn’t deny. So I was right there.

    He said sorry. He also said that he was a terrible communicator.  And that I had always been very vocal about my intentions and likes.

    I am wondering though if his analytical male mind told him I am not a good match because he could tell I was falling for him and he was still married? A case of male chauvinism? He was married himself, still living with his wife, albeit saying that he was “separated.” Even as we communicated, he moved in and out of their family house to a hotel at least two times… Went on a retreat as a “last-ditch attempt” (his words)? And then half a year later, put his ring back on again. Isn’t he to blame as much as myself for looking for a distraction, an escape during hard times?

    He also mentioned – yes, @Dannydan, men are not stupid – that he had a girlfriend now. Just in case I was going to confess my love for him, I think. Which I wasn’t. I think he also thought I was going to confess at the beginning when I said I didn’t know where to start and had a hard time getting control of my voice for a second.

    I am not sure whether he still thinks now that the meeting is over that I was still under his spell. I said that I was doing the “cleanup,” soul-searching, and everyone to whom I related the story (with no names, of course), told me to make use of the opportunity and talk to him in person, since he was still in the area.

    I do wonder though whether it is that girl that he had fallen in love with 10 years ago? Just curious, but won’t lose my sleep over that.

    So to summarise, again, I was right that he was a mess at the point. And I was right proceeding very cautiously. Only it lasted long enough for me to get attached. And I wanted to get attached. The wound from A’s betrayal was very raw. However, didn’t I try to go slowly? And aren’t there successful stories immediately following breakups?… The story with B did get more blunt as time went on, after he pulled away. I don’t think I’ll be far from the truth if I said that yes, his Twitter became just a habit, but I was getting tired of it and it was not difficult to quit at all, eventually. Tbh, at some point at the end of 2020, I also became afraid of learning that he was in relationship. All the more reason to quit.

    • My third point was that if it had been a play, not to do it.

     

    It wasn’t a play, he was messed up, but he did end up hurting me. Not HURTING, but hurting. That’s what I said. I implored him to be more open, with his girlfriend and others, if applicable.

     

     

    Funny that he remembered a lot of things despite him being a mess at the time. He reiterated that he hadn’t pulled away because of having been bored with my confessions/revelations. He remembered the book I had given him for his birthday. He remembered some things that I had wanted to do. Hey, he even remembered the news I had told him in our little chit-chat from last year when he forwarded me the job offer!

     

    If you ask me what I was feeling for him at the moment and what I am feeling as I type, I don’t really know what to say. I feel like in a fog and a huge void. I think the void was there before because of his communication here and there, his rashness, him being wishy-washy. Because of these features, which I didn’t ignore, my intelligent mind thought it was unlikely that he would be thinking about me and refraining from communication for that long, especially now that he was officially divorced.

    But yes, as I wrote to @Sammy1, the line is drawn under my disillusionment. My deep-seated hope was that he was physically attracted to me and felt that intellectual and emotional connection. He was, sort of, but not to a degree that would make him want to have me in his life.

    Quite painful to see one “maybe”, tucked away deep inside, go away.

     

    And yes, at the same time, also rationally, I can say that it is not a given that his relationship with the girlfriend will last.

    @Dannydan was right supposing that ‘B’ hadn’t done any homework. I am not sure about him ‘jumping’ into a new relationship – as said, I don’t even know who the girl is or how long they have been together, only that she is coming to stay in two weeks. Which is why I thought of the one he had met on a business trip in 2010, but I can only guess.

    You know, as we talked, in the back of my mind, I tried to decide two things: Is he still the same? And am I still attracted to him?

    He hasn’t probably changed.

    Am I attracted to him? Don’t know. Too much time has passed. As said, he put on weight. We had a really good talk, only he couldn’t say much except that at some point he decided there was no future for us. (I can’t remember the exact phrase he used – not “no future,” not “not a match,” not “not going anywhere,” but something like this.) He couldn’t explain why. And I didn’t push for it – after all, I wanted to know if he had felt something on par with me or not. Looks like I was wrong, it was not that meaningful for him. He is just not that into you – golden words (he didn’t say that).

    I am not sure whether I am still attracted to him. Too much time has passed. If he wanted me, if he wooed me, I probably could start having him on my mind as I used to.

    But now I am too tired. Exhausted even. I don’t care.

    I wonder if I have changed?

    I am definitely much more mature now.

    I wonder what he felt about me after the meeting? Did he feel attracted to the new me? Could his old self be attracted to a new me? If he had changed (nay, I don’t think that), could he be attracted to me now? Would I want somebody like him to be attracted by me? Like really attracted to call me his girlfriend like he called that girl? I don’t know.

    I will probably never know what he thought or felt. In fact, I don’t think he will be analysing this meeting as seriously as I am doing, with your help, @Dannydan and @Sammy1. If he suddenly decides he wants me, at any point in time, parts with his girlfriend, we’ll have to start from scratch. I guess like Danny and ‘B’.

    But as before, as before this meeting (before I posted here on Tiny Buddha), I am not reaching out to him again.

    I know that he hasn’t forgotten me. He just wasn’t that much into me when the time came. Again, don’t know if he felt different now. We said bye and parted our ways.

    I don’t know if it was a good thing that we talked. It probably was. Thank you, @Sammy1 and @Dannydan for pushing me to do it.

    I am back to thinking again that I am such an old soul, so different from everybody that I’ll never find a matching partner. Especially given how few men I meet for whom I feel that sexual desire and who I know are good for me, who are attracted to me, who are not in a relationship and with whom there is future. For now, I have been filtering out about 95% of ‘bad guys,’ but the 5% still got in. (And of course, ‘good girls’ are seldom attracted to ‘good boys’.) I let go of my fears, dive straight in – and hit a cement floor.

    @Dannydan, looking forward to your comments, if any, so that I can wish you all the best! Please don’t leave me here now that I am turning this ‘B’ leaf over!!! (Or am I?)

    Thank you all!!!

    #375181
    NBC
    Participant
    1. S. I wrote the account above fresh after the meeting. Then, as I normally do, set it aside for some time.

    Something was nagging me all along. Is if I was missing something. Overlooking something staring right into my face. Something I didn’t quite like.

    And then it hit me.

    All this time, I thought him to be tormented between his sudden infatuation and its dissolution, his past with his wife, his kids, house and life as he knew, all his neighbours and friends (He told me that his male friends asked him whether he couldn’t make an effort to patch up with his wife), also his beliefs. He used to go regularly to church with his wife.

    He repeated yesterday three or four times that he had pulled away because he didn’t see a future with me (or something like this – as said, the exact wording he used escapes me).

    It dawned on me that he was actually actively and cold-bloodedly looking – not even for a temporary escape – but for another partner. While still being married. And all this time he KNEW that his marriage was finished. For him.

    Not so decent, huh? If he had known that he would divorce no matter what, he should have divorced first.

    What he did was typical of many men though – looking to open a new account so to speak not having closed the old one.

    And one more thing in this story was not to my liking.

    So he knew that his marriage was over. For him. He was already in a blooming interaction with me. He decides I am not the one. And right after that, he is with his wife again.

    He may have given in to her and his friends’ requests to try again – I get that.

    Or he may have decided to give in to them BECAUSE I was not the one – I get that too.

    Either way, it doesn’t look good given that he KNEW his marriage is over.

    Not good towards his wife, not good towards me.

    I think it is this realisation (combined with him repeating it three or four times as a matter of course) that made me say that he hasn’t changed. Probably. Who knows for real?…

    Good riddance you say?

    #375185
    Sammy
    Participant

    Wow @NBC that’s a lot of analysis your mind has done.

    The fact of the matter is, like many intelligent women, you at some point went against your instincts, the red flags, and got caught up in his emotional woes wanting to probably do what women do instinctively “fix”, which in the end blinded you and lead to you becoming attached. Once those feelings arise it can make it very difficult to let go.

    Whereas he like a typical man was able to compartmentalise. He took advantage of the best of both worlds. He didn’t stop to think of the implications it would have on you by sharing such deep things. This is normally done in intimate relationships.

    So no I don’t think you were wrong you did have a deep meaningful experience but that was because you were being sincere in your intentions whereas he was insincere so couldn’t.

    He led you on and as noted earlier, he awakened feelings in you knowing that it was going no where, he took full advantage of your support and embarked on an emotional affair whilst still married. He should never have been looking if he had unresolved issues because like I said you can never really give to someone new if you’re stuck in the past.

    It’s awful and bad enough when a man who is hung up on his ex does it but he did it whilst actively married!!!

    That shows his character, he was not worthy of your precious time and attention.

    The meeting was the best thing you did for yourself, we could have told you several times but you hearing it for yourself was needed.

    Who cares if he thinks you’re under his spell, as long as you did this for your own healing.

    If his ego is that big he is assuming that you are under his spell, rather than reflecting on what hurt and damage he caused by his actions then that’s another reason for you being well rid!!

    Learning an ex is in a new relationship goes a few ways; if you genuinely care you’re happy for them or you feel jealousy it wasn’t you or you reach a point of indifference and don’t give AF!

    All three responses are normal so I’m not surprised you’re curious but honestly don’t worry about it. He’s not your person so your person is out there pour energy into finding him if a relationship is what you seek.

    The meeting will have made all your emotions raw and it is human to hurt after realising he really wasn’t into you yet gladly used you. I felt very much the same with my ex. But I guarantee you it will give you closure and in time you’ll realise you are 100% better off without that immature selfish man.

    Move on and close that chapter with him for good. Don’t waste anymore time analysing it. If he comes back, don’t entertain it. Work on you and your own needs.

    You deserve more, he will never be happy deep down unless he does major work and I doubt he has. He seems to be relationship hopping trying to fill whatever emptiness is within him by any means. Tbh most men are incapable of undertaking the growth @Tim1 and @Dannydan did.

    I’m sorry he didn’t offer you a truer apology in person or accountability like they did. However he offered you insight into what he was and is – he isn’t worthy of you.

    You deserve a man who knows what he wants and will move heaven and earth for you and vice versa. Anything less is not worth it.

    You can equally be fulfilled and content without a man. It’s not the be all or end all so don’t compare to others. Many people are never really happy within and think relationships will fill that void but they just find they are unhappy still.

    If you need any other advice let me know but I’m not frequenting TB as I was but happy to always support anyone x

    #375186
    Sammy
    Participant

    Oh @NBC I just realised i missed you off the list in my previous message to everyone that was completely unintentional and of course I will always wish you warmth and happiness and I’m glad to hear from you. Turn over the 0age write a new adventure x

    #375223
    NBC
    Participant

    @Sammy1

    The fact of the matter is, like many intelligent women, you at some point went against your instincts, the red flags, and got caught up in his emotional woes wanting to probably do what women do instinctively “fix”, which in the end blinded you and lead to you becoming attached. Once those feelings arise it can make it very difficult to let go.

    I am not sure I wanted to “fix” him, but it was sure nice to have him as a friend, and I thought I could stick to the fine line of being a friend without getting involved too much, at least until he had figured his “separated” vs “divorced” status. Life proved me wrong.

    But I did get a lot out of it. It was my consolation in the end – when he pulled away for good – that we were even. He was a very good listener to my breakup story with ‘A’. I think I mentioned before that I credit him with being a therapist for me. He did move my focus from ‘A’ to himself like a therapist would, but since he was no therapist, he couldn’t do anything to dissipate that new focus. The good news is that we never became involved too deeply, no sex took place, so it was not too hard to let go (compared to a full-fledged invested relationship).

    Whereas he like a typical man was able to compartmentalise. He took advantage of the best of both worlds. He didn’t stop to think of the implications it would have on you by sharing such deep things. This is normally done in intimate relationships.

    Excellent point! He is sure great at compartmentalising.

    When we cuddled, he shared that he had only been intimate with two women in his life – his wife and that girl in 2010. I thought it was a good thing, him being so selective and restrained. Of course, he could have lied.

    I shared that ‘A’ had been my only sexual partner so far, and I had only kissed two other men in my life before him. These other two men and I went further than kissing, but not so far as having sex. I don’t know if he thought I was promiscuous? With two men kissed on the lips and one intimate with in all the 30 years of my life at the time?

    Who cares if he thinks you’re under his spell, as long as you did this for your own healing.

    If his ego is that big he is assuming that you are under his spell, rather than reflecting on what hurt and damage he caused by his actions then that’s another reason for you being well rid!!

    At the beginning, he expressed surprise that I had wanted to meet in person. He said he thought I wanted a letter of recommendation from him or something like that.

    And when I started talking about our intense communication five years ago, I felt the vibes of something along the lines of “Oh, that’s what it is! I wonder if she still can’t get over that case!?! Couldn’t she really have been hung up on me for these five years???”

    One more note. When he recalled the news I let him know last year, it was about a coworker of ours who had recently given birth. He had worked much more with her than with me – and he struggled to recall her name! On the one hand, I was flattered that he remembered so much about me and “us.” On the other hand, I also recalled how in 2015, he, probably wanting to establish a better rapport, had tried to convince me that he and I had had a big project together, which in fact we didn’t. I corrected him right away then. That was a red flag for me, too. I think he knew that he was bringing this up wanting to look good, but it didn’t look good. People-pleaser? Also, the reason for him giving in to his wife and friends’ admonitions to make up?

    When he mentioned that coworker, he kind of nodded towards me, sort of “And what about you? In a relationship? Kids?” But he didn’t say anything.

    Have no idea what he thought in the end. I might have been just as well clearing my mental space because it was in the way of a new relationship, might I have not?

    I felt that he was intently watching for my reaction when he mentioned his girlfriend. I am glad I had my sunglasses on. I didn’t flinch, just nodded and shrugged as if it was totally expected and I didn’t care in the least.

    I thought it was also funny that he seemed to be genuinely interested in how things were going in our organisation, covid and all. I thought he would ask just one question and maybe a follow-up as small talk, but he asked quite a lot. I had the impression that it was actually me who was more impatient to get to the reason for our meeting than he was.

    Learning an ex is in a new relationship goes a few ways; if you genuinely care you’re happy for them or you feel jealousy it wasn’t you or you reach a point of indifference and don’t give AF!

    Great point! I am 80% indifferent and the rest is split between very light jealousy (mingled with uncertainty about what I would be feeling if I were with him – possibly lots of anxiety, but I am not sure, I am in sort of turpor right now) and curiosity as to who the girl is. Wouldn’t it be Hollywood-like if it were the one from 2010? Albeit with lots of direct damage (his wife, his daughter who was only 6 or 7 at the time) and collateral (for instance, me).

    The meeting will have made all your emotions raw and it is human to hurt after realising he really wasn’t into you yet gladly used you.

    I suppose it was more the fact of rejection. For a day or so, I had the same feeling I had had when one of the guys from a quasi-relationship said he didn’t want me and when A announced that he was now in love with another woman and couldn’t care less about me.

    It is much better now. It definitely helps that we never went too far and that it has been almost exactly five years since he went MIA for good.

    Tbh most men are incapable of undertaking the growth @Tim1 and @Dannydan did.

    This is what concerns me a lot. There are already more women than men. Women are generally more self-aware than men. So the chances to find somebody like @Tim1 and @Dannydan are tending towards zero.

    I’m sorry he didn’t offer you a truer apology in person or accountability like they did.

    This is true, he didn’t. He apologised just because it was polite to apologise. I doubt he is going to think back about what he had done and decide he also needed some soul-searching – like @Dannydan. But who knows?…

    However he offered you insight into what he was and is – he isn’t worthy of you.

    Agree.

    Another thought came across. He said I had been vocal about what I wanted, he had told me right away that he didn’t want to marry.  He reiterated when we met now three days ago that it was never his intention to marry.  Copped out of any potential responsibility when sensing I was falling for him by saying “I just can’t have a serious relationship now”.

    Which prompted a few questions from me back then in 2015.

    You see, everywhere – in forums, articles, even in a similar Tiny Buddha thread, people use the phrase “I don’t want to be in a relationship.” He used “can’t have” and “now.” Which made me ask whether these were the key words. And he didn’t reply to it.

    The thought is that, in addition to yet one more attempt to reconcile, he may have thought I was not the one because he wasn’t ready for anything serious, wanted casual and could see that I was strictly relationship material?

    I couldn’t help but think about the vibes I was getting from him during our meeting and before when our paths had crossed after he had pulled away.

    When we met a couple of times in the autumn of 2016, half a year since our meeting before that and about half a year after he had ghosted me, why would he approach me and then avoid me and blush and fidget when talking to me if he had decided I was not the one? He didn’t protest when I said I had noticed it this week.

    Can’t tell about blushing this week, no fidgeting, but as I look back, I realise that he was standing erect and immobile as a statue, never shifting weight from one leg to another or crossing his arms or hiding his arms behind his back as I was doing. And we talked for 30-40 minutes.

    He was just as serious as he was when we cuddled and talked, not a single joke cracked.

    Again, it may be wishful thinking and even if it is, it is not more wishful thinking after this meeting than it was before when I had already started to forget him, but I have a feeling now that I am back on his list of potential partners. You know, like they say that every man has a list of women he turns to when he is single. Not for comfort, but to see whether they would fit as a new partner. Like they suggest not to forget one’s friends, especially single ones, to look around in one’s already established circles of friends and acquaintances.

    He has a highly analytical mathematical mind. He probably agrees now that he is not the mess he was in 2015-2016 (he may be a different mess, but that’s a different story). And I am not the mess I was back then. He definitely liked my appearance. He had always been attracted to me. If it is a serious relationship he wants now and if he and his girlfriend don’t work out, I wouldn’t be surprised if he contacts me.

    At least, I did jog his memory (not that he had forgotten about me, but he probably brushed me aside – “nope, not that one”) and made him see me in a new light.

    This is my main takeaway. Our meeting helped me to see him the way he is now (also with me) and he could see and check the perception that he had conserved of me against me in 2021.

    Again, need @Dannydan here – men hardly ever fall in love at first sight, do they? It happens gradually.

    If his mind tells him I am worth pursuing, he may as well try that and see how it develops this time.

    Goes without saying that I am no more expecting him to contact me at any time in the future than I was before the meeting.

    And goes without saying that I will have to put him through a lot if he does.

    If you need any other advice let me know but I’m not frequenting TB as I was but happy to always support anyone x

    @Sammy1, I am about to be done with this situationship, but if you come up with any other comments, I’d be grateful. You are terribly insightful and give very good advice that makes a lot of sense.

    I am also looking forward to @Dannydan’s comments from a male’s perspective, so that I can wrap it up for good.

     

    #375352
    Danny
    Participant

    @NBC sorry mate about the delay, I’ve been incredibly busy. I had a read and it is great you seized the opportunity to finally seek answers and gain some closure for yourself.

    No offense but searching up and simulating prompts into why he put ‘love’ instead of ‘live’ in his response is a tad obsessive? Don’t do that to yourself! It’s a slippery slope.

    I think although you state you are over him, I can sense you are still looking for some glimmer of hope. That may be more to do with the feeling of rejection than actually wanting to reconcile though.

    Before I offer my perspective I’ll just state, when a man decides he really wants a woman he will move mountains to be with her. I did for ‘B’ and she rightly only took me back when I proved through my actions I was serious.
    In any relationship that’s what you should demand, have the self respect and worth to know you deserve more than breadcrumbs. Men will respect you more.

    I can’t fault Sammy’s insight, it is on the money mostly.

    In ref to the points you wanted a male perspective on. I’m probably going to break bro code here but here goes.

     

    A reason maybe this didn’t work out is the physical attraction wasn’t there for him. Men are visual so unfortunately unless mature and evolved most men prioritise this aspect. But if he was very hands on with you , flirting and chemistry present then I doubt this is the reason. It would take an unhinged person to fake all that just for sex.

    But that brings me to my next point, if physical or sexual attraction is present then underdeveloped males can be incredibly fickle and can lose interest quickly if sex isn’t on the table for them as they know woman at this stage have the power. So that could be one reason he lost interest.

    I’m not saying give sex to a guy, quite the opposite the fact you didn’t have sex is actually a good thing. I know I respect a woman more when she isn’t easy and is selective but if a man only has that as his goal for you he will definitely lose interest fast! Sad facts!

    I doubt he thought you were promiscuous, you didn’t even have sex. However, he may think that about you out of anger or feel not enough himself if you are very attractive and he is insecure. I.e. Old Danny conjured up all sorts of negative false scenarios. I at one point believed egged on by the lads, ‘B’ was cockteasing and playing me.

    I’m not supporting his actions, what he did was wrong but I personally think if you want a deeper understanding of men, reducing it down to “he just wasn’t into you” will not help.  Men have emotions sometimes due to our lack of emotional regulation and intelligence we mess up.

    Just to give you some insight you will be shocked at how often us men appear outwardly confident but are actually deeply insecure. We often want the emotional connection and to also feel safe. However because we are not accustomed to that support when we get it, we feel internally something is off.

    I believe you two experienced that emotional connect and that isn’t easy to achieve. He probably can’t see it yet but trust me he will one day.

    Instead typically what has played out is the woman who is good and offers emotional support, somehow attraction becomes dampened because we feel emasculated further.

    These type of men often are very attentive and kind but always end up wanting a woman who treats them mean or aggressively. However they are never happy, take note this has NOTHING to do with you , but deep seated issues either in form of mummy issues or from previous relationship experience.

    I was one of them types, but Sammy is right unfortunately not many men are willing to change or look inwardly. If you try to be with them thinking you’ll change them let me tell you, you’ll always lose.

    You were always going to lose, it is clear as day your B hasn’t grown, he offered no real accountability.

    The fact he met you although no consolation does mean he likes you. Maybe he thought you were marriage material and he wanted casual flings as distraction. Who knows?!

    Him mentioning he has a girlfriend may be the truth and he wanted to avoid awkwardness, on the flip side it can also be game playing to see if it evokes jealousy and to get you to admit any remaining feelings first, form of control. It is what insecurity does to you. You constantly feel the need to protect oneself or have the upper hand. Childish really, but not beyond a man if he’s insecure.

    If he is thinking you are under his spell he will no doubt get an ego boost. Women are often desired but men on the other hand face rejection a heck of a lot more. So often men who need this kind of validation keep options or women on back-burner when down on their luck.

    Which brings me to the next point you were most likely an option.

    That is what you need to be wary of. If he has a change of heart, be sure it’s because he wants a serious commitment.

    Not many men do what I did, I only contacted and reinserted myself in ‘B’s’ life when I was sure of what I needed and wanted and who i was. It took a lot of growth.

    You seem to have got a lot out of it,  so it is heartening to see he hasn’t destroyed your faith in men entirely. Although no sex took place let me tell you as men we are very deprived of being able to open up and feel heard. We don’t have what you women have. So even though you didn’t get the relationship let me reassure you the reason why he remembers you is because you touched him emotionally, that can be better than sex!

    Who he is with or what he is doing is no longer your concern. Don’t put your energy into those thoughts, re focus on your own needs and find your next adventure.

    I think most women whilst us men are avoiding the truth, look inwardly very much like Sammy has. There comes a point they have grown so much they don’t look back and want much better for themselves. I only got ‘B’ because I proved through my actions I was better version.

    You don’t need to wish for a fixer upper, you can go out and get the finished product!

    He clearly has a lot of soul searching needed but I wouldn’t count on it happening. The issues in his relationships caused by him are not just applicable to his relationship but in his life as a whole. Until he sees that and cuts out the things harming him he will never change.

    My honest advice to you is the lack of accountability is your answer. He said sorry (people pleasing) but didn’t take ownership of his actions and address that himself. Move forward and live a fulfilled life.

    He will continue to avoid his issues like most men and even if he is in a new relationship, sooner or later it will crack. You can run but not hide forever from your demons.

    Final point, us men are actually very visual so we are more likely to fall in love at first sight (infatuation) real love i have learned is never a rapid flame or sparks, it is a slow burn. I didn’t even realise I was falling in love with ‘B’ in the first 6 months until one casual day I realised I really love this woman and who I am with her, I found myself instinctively caring about her wanting to be her shoulder to lean on etc (see my previous posts).

    #375375
    Sammy
    Participant

    @NBC we can’t control what emotions surface for us, but we can control how we act. Yes, your action of trying to be a friend whilst he was ‘lost’, hurt you in the end. It is something you chose so that at least can’t be blamed on him even though the rest of what he did was wrong.

    So we have to take ownership and not allowing ourselves to remain in situations for longer than we should. Learning when to quit is actually a really good tool to possess. I learned that the hard way through my alcohol addiction and my on/off past with the ex. I wish I had left and taken a stance and shown myself respect and love sooner.

    I’m glad you feel it was even in the end. I didn’t which made me feel more unworthy but again I’ve learned not to expect back in return and set boundaries. Something I had no concept of before. I just poured and poured until I lost myself.

    I agree with Danny you haven’t let go fully but you definitely are now making movements. Once you let go fully there’s no need to rake over it. But you take your time to heal, I’m just impatient when it comes to being miserable or in a rut. I feel an urge to move my life forward in a meaningful way, staying like that can just make you spiral downwards and develop more bad habits.

    Double standards sadly exist, unfortunately I see where you’re coming from, men do get hypocritical when it comes to body count but why on earth would he think you’re promiscuous just for kissing??

    I think he was a mess, needed an escape, found you but ended up connecting emotionally. Men do not go deep with people they just want to shag. There was a deeper connection there that’s why he is able to recall you and thinks about you. Otherwise if it was a cheap fling he wouldn’t recall your name let alone the content of your conversations 5 years ago.

    Like Danny said men are deprived and he even though he knew you were not what he was looking for at the moment did what most immature men do, took advantage.

    Don’t allow this one man to steal your future happiness. Do it for yourself. Love yourself enough to believe something better is out there.
    Treat him like a radio he’s playing somewhere but tune out of this frequency and tune into a new frequency, go discover a new soundtrack. You may find a hit!

    Never ever take this man back even if he calls around and you’re still single or feeling lonely.. UNLESS real growth has occured and is demonstrated,  that would mean taking accountabilty foremost and being mature enough to express it. Otherwise trust me when I say you’ll regret going back to only find out he’s the same person.

    But he doesn’t seem to want marriage as he’s stated, I’m sure you do. That’s a deal breaker so find a guy who’ll treat you and show you how much he wants it with you too! They are out there.

    Honestly once you learn to be okay with being by yourself and loving your self. You no longer NEED a relationship. You will want one only if the right man steps up.

    Danny thanks for that perspective, good on you for not being misogynistic. I know if I go out with my besties bro to not to cut back on that tlc you men crave, hopefully if he’s the right one he will appreciate me for it.

    @NBC here if you need further advice x

    #375403
    NBC
    Participant

    @Dannydan (and @Sammy1)

    No offense but searching up and simulating prompts into why he put ‘love’ instead of ‘live’ in his response is a tad obsessive? Don’t do that to yourself! It’s a slippery slope.

    I think although you state you are over him, I can sense you are still looking for some glimmer of hope. That may be more to do with the feeling of rejection than actually wanting to reconcile though.

    Ha-ha, Danny, no offence, but the romantic in me in the deep unconsciousness was definitely looking for a glimmer of hope after you described how you had told our B that you thought she would contact you first! 😊

    I have been searching and I think I found it – what the overall outcome of that meeting was.

    Yes, I would expect him to have seen me in a different light now that five years have passed.

    Certainly, I don’t know what he will make of it.

    I had to get used to the new him (not appearance-wise), quiet and all and not on edge because of my presence.

    (Or am I wrong again? I had one guy courting me. I thought I couldn’t tell what he was thinking of me. Not that I cared – I felt that terrible aversion to him and was wondering how he couldn’t feel it. However, when after Date 2 I told him I could only be friends with him, he thanked for being so upfront because other ladies had been stringing him along with no feelings for him. I thought he might want to remain friends – out of hope to win me over eventually. But he disappeared out of my life just like that. I now think that he really, really liked me. And I couldn’t tell for the life of me at the moment! Again, not that I would have cared then or care now.)

    This meeting was supposed to the closing chapter in our relationship, whatever it was, the “summing up.”

    When I look back now that one week has passed, it feels more like a first date, only I (can’t speak for the other party) can’t really say whether I am hoping he would ask me on a second date or not. If he did, I would accept; if he didn’t, I am totally okay with it.

    I can’t fault Sammy’s insight, it is on the money mostly.

    Yes, and thank you @Sammy1 – I reread your post every single day this past week. For two or three days it really felt like a full-fledged breakup similar to the two most memorable that I have had in my life.

    I have never given in to the temptation of visualising our life together, but a few images had creeped into my head – I admit that. I felt we could have so much fun together, learn so much from each other… And I certainly liked the way it felt to be with him. I need to leave that aside and let it sink that those images were just that – fantasies. No telling if everything would have turned out like I had imagined. Just let go.

    I’m not saying give sex to a guy, quite the opposite the fact you didn’t have sex is actually a good thing. I know I respect a woman more when she isn’t easy and is selective

    Again, Danny, you are confirming what I read in some of the books on male psyche!

    but if a man only has that as his goal for you he will definitely lose interest fast! Sad facts!

    True, but – and this is what left me wondering for a good many year!

    He texted me the very next morning after our cuddling asking me how I felt after the sleepless night. (I had been wondering how soon I would hear from him if at all.)

    And we would continue communicating on the same level of intensity for over a month.

    Then he had that quarrel with his wife when he wanted to crash on my floor.

    I replied to him then that “My house was his house.” He said “Thank you, my NBC.” (And then he said he wouldn’t come.)

    We met for a walk some time later. I don’t remember how the conversation brought me to this, but I actually did say that it would be cool to live under the same roof – that way we could speak one language one day, another one on another day and so on. (He speaks three of the languages that I speak.)

    Some time later again, when we met again, he asked me whether I was his. When I asked him later what he had meant by that, he said that he hadn’t meant anything like that, he had wanted to say something nice.

    And our interaction was still undying!

    Some time after that he would throw in “We need to talk,” “We need to talk”, but making no effort to schedule the talk after I said ready anytime. That was when he joked about ‘pillow talk.’ Hey, we even discussed the Fifty Shades of Grey!

    And then I was going on a holiday inviting him over in jest.

    He said, “Man, I’d love to.”

    Then the day I arrived at my destination, he texted me asking how my holiday was going.

    But it was some time into that two-week holiday that he stopped asking questions, initiating interaction and when everything basically died.

    Right after the holiday, I met him at work. He asked me how my holiday had been. A couple of hours after the meeting he texted me asking whether I was still at work. I said no, gone home already. I thought he would ask for a meeting or maybe even come over to my place, but he didn’t add anything.

    Then two months later I saw a fresh picture of his wife and him with their wedding rings on.

    He would text me a couple of more times that “Are you still around?” text.

    That is when I made a few attempts to recover what had been to no avail.

    Followed by my ‘confession.’ And his yet one more “I am still here”. Which sounded (probably without any ground for it) as a promise to come back to me when he is a free man.

    That’s the big picture of our timeline.

    I also might add that I was very cautious about what exactly I was writing to him because I had read that lawyers could even use email correspondence like that in cases of bitter divorce.

    So given the intensity of communication plus those sudden resurgences of “Where are you? Still here?” afterwards made me think that he was still battling his “duty” and desire for divorce.

    Now that he tells me in cold blood that he was already looking for somebody and thought I would fit the part, but then changed his mind, is certainly a revelation.

    @Sammy1’s words that sharing some of the info that he shared is normally done in intimate relationships helped me to see that I hadn’t imagined the emotional intimacy. No matter what it led on to later on or didn’t.

    I doubt he thought you were promiscuous, you didn’t even have sex. However, he may think that about you out of anger or feel not enough himself if you are very attractive and he is insecure. I.e. Old Danny conjured up all sorts of negative false scenarios. I at one point believed egged on by the lads, ‘B’ was cockteasing and playing me.

    Well, frankly, Danny, I am afraid that if one wanted, one could easily think that I was inviting him over exactly to have sex. Or then putting blankly that it would be cool to live together.

    I mean that if he had wanted to take advantage of me, he could certainly see lots of green lights. (Not that I was going to cede to him – I swear I was not going to have sex with him until his marriage situationship had been cleared out.)

    I’m not supporting his actions, what he did was wrong but I personally think if you want a deeper understanding of men, reducing it down to “he just wasn’t into you” will not help.  Men have emotions sometimes due to our lack of emotional regulation and intelligence we mess up.

    That’s what’s confusing! I thought he was messed up, but now he tells me that he was in his sound mind looking for new partner, and there was something about me that wasn’t sitting right with him!

    In fact, this is what is significantly contributing to my healing. I can forgive lots of things done in a state of emotional turmoil (despite the fact that I myself would probably still keep my composure and behave decently), but I have trouble forgiving that, which is normally not done by ‘civilised’ people, by somebody who is totally in control of their abilities, when there is no possibility to make allowances for the emotional state of the person in question.

    Just to give you some insight you will be shocked at how often us men appear outwardly confident but are actually deeply insecure.

    I know about this in theory. I think I can distinguish between true and false confidence, but I am not sure. Have never been attracted by cocky men. Have always preferred calmly and quietly assured. (But learnt that that can be false appearance, too.)

     We often want the emotional connection and to also feel safe. However because we are not accustomed to that support when we get it, we feel internally something is off.

    And this somehow rings very true!

    You know, what I would really love to know is whether NBC-version ’21 is not NBC-version five years ago and whether ‘B’ is the same or different. Unfortunately, no such authority exists.

    Instead typically what has played out is the woman who is good and offers emotional support, somehow attraction becomes dampened because we feel emasculated further.

    These type of men often are very attentive and kind but always end up wanting a woman who treats them mean or aggressively. However they are never happy, take note this has NOTHING to do with you , but deep seated issues either in form of mummy issues or from previous relationship experience.

    Again, you have definitely stumbled upon something! I knew that in theory, but it never occurred to me to apply that to B!

    And of course, there is nothing I can do about it here. No way I can help him. Some things can only be done by the person himself.

    I was one of them types, but Sammy is right unfortunately not many men are willing to change or look inwardly. If you try to be with them thinking you’ll change them let me tell you, you’ll always lose.

    What I have also learnt as time passes is that people hardly ever change. It takes some very significant push from the outside (breakup, trauma, illness, etc.) for somebody to change. Sad, but true.

    And no, I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to change whomever!

    Unfortunately, I am more of the type who would be busy doing her own thing, but at the same time quietly waiting hoping for the tides to change and for the reformed man to come to her. I do get tired of waiting eventually. And I am afraid I waste time doing it. But on the flip side, I can’t really become interested in anybody else until the interest in that other person has waned with time… The only thing I feel I can do is look for means to speed up the process. But I can’t be ready until I am ready.

    The fact he met you although no consolation does mean he likes you. Maybe he thought you were marriage material and he wanted casual flings as distraction. Who knows?!

    You mean now? Or when he was married and we met five years ago?

    He did say that he didn’t want to marry, but that was five years ago.

    And then I was confused last week when he said he couldn’t see any future with me and so started to back away five years ago. Long-term casual future??? Or just one more proof that he was indeed a mess five years ago no matter how much he may be trying to convince me of the opposite now? Oh wait, he did say last week he had been a mess! How come then he could decide then five years ago in a sound and sane way whether I was the one or not???

    I have read so many different stories now that I fully abide by the saying that when somebody tells you what or who she or he is, believe it. He said at least two times, when our ‘active phase’ was over, that he liked me. I have to go with that.

    But given that he decided not to develop it further, not to build upon this attraction (such as what you say gives rise to feelings – more proximity, more time together, getting to know each other – right?), I have to contend that “he was into me, but just not that much into me.”

    I can of course hope that he will see it in time how special our emotional connection was, but after this meeting, I feel that he is further from this realisation than he ever was before. I was already starting to have doubts about his original ‘promise” (which was no promise in reality) to get back together after the divorce now that so much time had passed. After our meeting, I know that the chance is even slimmer than the slim chance I thought it was.

    I simply cant’ count on that in whatever degree. And I can’t make him see it.

    So thank you again, @Dannydan and @Sammy1 for pushing me to make him come out into the light.

    @Dannydan, if you don’t mind my asking, how old are you?

    Him mentioning he has a girlfriend may be the truth and he wanted to avoid awkwardness, on the flip side it can also be game playing to see if it evokes jealousy and to get you to admit any remaining feelings first, form of control. It is what insecurity does to you. You constantly feel the need to protect oneself or have the upper hand. Childish really, but not beyond a man if he’s insecure.

    Well, somehow I think it is true about the girlfriend.

    One, I would really love for that girl who had fallen for him more than ten years ago to get her happily ever after (if it is her and if this ‘happily ever after’ is possible for them as they are now).

    And two. He is divorced, comfortably retired, in his own house with a golden retriever, two grown-up kids are with their mother, dabbles in motivational speaking after a successful career, charming, witty and good-looking. I mean the queue of women wanting to be with him would encircle the globe five times if not more! And he was starved for female attention even five years ago – he thanked me for cuddling saying it had been nice to have a woman’s arms around him.

    I do think he has a girlfriend, only I truly don’t know if he is ready for it.

    And you are right, he hasn’t done any ‘homework”!

    That is what you need to be wary of. If he has a change of heart, be sure it’s because he wants a serious commitment.

    Why? Why can’t he turn again to me just to get an ego boost?

    Or he would have a long time ago, given what I have shared?

    You know, the only thing that I don’t know if I should have done differently when we met last week is talk in more detail about how hurt and slighted I felt by his ghosting me. But I don’t like to complain or be a crybaby.

    I am also wondering if I should have talked in more detail about what specifically in his treatment (concrete words, phrases, texts like that) threw me off five years ago? But then I did tell him that he was confusing (he agreed – gosh, he even took that word – “confusing” – out of my mouth!) and ambiguous, that I even had made a list trying to balance things against each other (pros and cons) and still couldn’t get a clear picture of what was taking place.

    Maybe if I had been more vocal, that would have been a bigger push for him to think about what he had done?

    Or if he is ‘enlightened’ enough, this meeting and me mentioning my ‘hurt’ should have been enough?

    Danny and Sammy, you don’t even realise of how much help you are!!!

    #375491
    Jay
    Participant

    Hi all, new to this thread, I have read through from the start and I must say what an amazing community, other forums do not get near the amount of empathy this does and have found them unsympathetic, after reading through and being able to mirror a lot of the trauma and feelings it has been comforting to know I’m not the only one feeling this way and also to see the success in people getting over them to a happy place in life.

     

    I was a little disappointed to see the thread has died down now as I go to the end as it seems most people have resolved the issues they had and are in better places now so not sure of it is worthwhile me posting my story now for peoples views, opions etc.

     

    In case I would like to say I appreciated the thread as it has been insightful and helpful all the same

    #375541
    Sammy
    Participant

    @Jay please share your story, the creator @Shelbyville would be beyond pleased it’s helping you. @Kkasxo and @Shelbyville both created an empathetic space. I’m happy to help if you want. Everyone deserves to be heard x

     

    @NBC will reply this evening hopefully as I don’t have enough time on lunch break to.

     

    #375578
    Sammy
    Participant

    @NBC I’m super glad my advice has helped. Yes,  it’s time to let go.

    I don’t believe he was just after sex. I think he was after an escape and the benefits of a relationship. Emotional understanding, the warmth, the cuddles all the things he was deprived of in his actual relationship. When shit hit the fan he knew he had you. He was cold enough to use you in that way. He like many men didn’t understand that for majority of women spending that quality time causes them to feel more attached and fall. Whereas men can compartmentalise and remove themselves and go back to playing happy families. He clearly never had any intent of commitment to you. You were just an escape and he was able to live out his fantasies.

    Him asking you are you his, was probably empty words and breadcrumbs to fluff you up.

    The old saying goes why buy the cow if you can milk it for free. He used you. He took advantage of you and was opportunistic. He knew you’d offer him a place to sleep etc.

    I do think you can learn to set stricter boundaries and never get caught up in a triangle. It always will end up with you hurt.

    Can I ask just out of curiosity and no judgement, did the fact he was married still and not officially divorced not send red flags and deter you?

    You were a single agent but he embarked on emotional affair cheating on his wife. In essence emotionally cheating on you too everytime he would think or be with his wife.

    Can you see that this is not healthy. That you deserve so much more than to be an afterthought, an option.
    I’m glad you knew for yourself you wouldn’t have sex with a married man. Even if you wanted to. Its just not worth it for a few minutes of lust.

    What worries me is the fact you said you supposedly gave green lights by offering him a space to say. Always remember consent!!! He has no right to assume you will have sex until he has gained consent. I.e. if you have a Netflix and chill date doesn’t mean sex is guaranteed, if you go for dinner he pays doesn’t mean sex is guaranteed for him. If you kiss and cuddle doesn’t mean he can automatically assume you will give him sex. Any man you are with if a gentleman will gain consent.

    If he was of sane mind as he claims or self aware enough to know what he was doing and knew you weren’t the right one but continued anyway then that’s wrong on so many levels, he is ROYALLY MESSED UP.
    That’s cold, cruel and calculated. If you have room in your heart, you can forgive for your own healing but you should never let that happen again or trust him.

    Yes an authority does exist that can tell you if NBC version 21 is different. That’s you. Have you changed? Grown? Made improvements for YOURSELF? You are in control of your self worth and esteem. Don’t seek validation from others.

    Don’t rush your process but do make positive movements towards change. Staying stuck in hopes of the past are never healthy or good. I hope this interaction with your B makes the interest wane and you move on to find your next adventure.

    The fact you are questioning why he can’t turn to you for an ego boost shows how little value you have for yourself. Come on you deserve so much better than that! You deserve to be chosen.

    The reason why you didn’t call him out entirely for your pain and tell him you were hurt is because a part of you didn’t want to rock the boat, you still had or have that glimmer of hope that you didn’t want to dash. You didn’t want to give him a reason.

    He is by the sounds of it a coward who can’t admit his accountability by himself. He is the type of guy who doesn’t ever leave you when he knows he doesn’t want you long term, and in the end offers the typical “you deserve better” to just look like the good guy.

    He hurt you. I’m sorry you got hurt. But you know what you are in control of how you let that hurt define you. You can let it cut you deep and wallow in self pity or be determined to never let someone hurt you again by loving yourself and moving on.

    I’m sorry if a lot of what I said is very blunt but I think sometimes the hard truths are what push us to level up and better our own lives and selves x

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