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10 years of marriage and wife no longer loves me

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  • December 17, 2018 at 2:34 pm #269719
    meyerjg
    Participant

    Hi everybody. Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this and (hopefully) respond. I’m really hoping to get some perspective from other people here.

    First off I have to say that it’s somewhat comforting to see similar topics. Of course I don’t wish these struggles upon others, but this is really the first time I have seen people discussing being in similar situations. It makes me feel less alone. I don’t particularly know if that’s helpful in any way other than making me feel a little better, but it’s nice to not feel alone.

    I’ll try to keep this brief but fairly detailed enough to cover the important parts. I have two kids (4 & 2) and since they have been born my wife and I failed miserably at continuing to invest into our relationship. I feel like I shoulder a significant portion of that blame as she did try harder than me. Also, I do not feel like I dealt with the stress of being a parent particularly well, and combined with a high-stress job and some longstanding resentment over a chronic health condition I have been living with since my early 20s, I became a difficult person to be around, especially for my wife. Simply put, I was more of a negative force in her life than a positive one. Never verbally or physically abusive, but a poor husband and partner. For what it’s worth, I don’t particularly think she was a good partner to me either.

    Early in the year we hit some turbulent times which drove a larger wedge between us. In August, I finally broke down and laid everything bare and outright asked her if she wanted to stop this from unraveling any further than we’ve let it go already. I expressed that I wanted to fix things and to heal with each other. She told me she didn’t know, and she no longer felt like she loved me.

    In the past four months I’ve gone through the ringer. I started by thinking everything was my fault but I’ve since transformed into acknowledging my own faults and working to improve as a person. I started going to therapy. I’m putting considerable effort into rediscovering the “me” that existed before kids, because we fell far too out of touch with each other. I’m hopeful that working through my own problems and getting more of “myself” back will reinvigorate my wife’s feelings for me.

    So far, they haven’t. She continues to say she doesn’t know how she feels, other than she “doesn’t feel the same way” about me. She doesn’t know whether she wants to try and improve things between us. She talks about wanting to find herself, being happier alone, etc. She wants to find somebody who really knows her (she feels that I don’t) and inspires her. She keeps bringing up the inspiration thing and it irks me a bit, because she’s dismissive of quite literally everything I excel at or am practiced at. But anyways.

    I’m baffled and nearly at my wit’s end. She’s got somebody who she obviously loved at one point, has built a family with, and is absolutely willing to change and to do whatever it takes to improve our lives and our relationship, albeit a bit late on that effort. She admits that I seem much different now and our interactions are much better, but she feels no differently. My interpretation is that she feels it’s too late for us, and she has taken everything that made her unhappy over the last year (difficulty at work, struggling with the sacrifices of parenthood, etc) and has decided that everything can be attributed to our relationship.

    I don’t want to be dramatic but this is killing me. It’s taking everything for me to do what I’m doing and to stay positive in the face of her treating me with hostility, resentment, and nastiness. It’s disheartening.

    Anyhow, thanks again for reading. If you have any perspective to share I’ll be excited to read it. Many of my close friends and relatives all tell me “I’ve seen relationships go through worse” and similar anecdotes, but I really don’t know. At times I feel like they’re just trying to make me feel better. When I go online and look for advice, much of what I read is something along the lines of “get out now before you destroy your self esteem” or “the only way to make her want you again is to make her realize she’s losing you too.” That doesn’t seem like particularly good advice.

    I know what I want. I want to have a partner who is invested in making things better and building a good relationship. I want to have a healthy family environment for my kids. I want my relationship with my wife to get back to what made it good in the first place, and then make it even better. I just don’t know if any of this is attainable anymore. For now, there’s still gas in the tank and I’ll keep trying. I just don’t know if it’s wasted effort.

    December 17, 2018 at 5:03 pm #269741
    Valora
    Participant

    First, I want to congratulate you on your making a decision to better yourself and going to therapy to help! That says a lot about you and I hope you feel proud of yourself for that because it’s definitely a great thing.

    I’m pretty sure my ex-boyfriend did what you think your wife might now be doing… he was miserable in general, he wasn’t happy with his job, his health, his level of success, etc., but it seems he blamed me and our relationship for his unhappiness rather than everything else, thinking everything could change if he was by himself or even with someone else, then he would be happy… but people can’t find true, lasting happiness from outside sources. Any happiness found that way is temporary.

    So anyway, it sort of sounds like your wife also might be struggling with how her life changed after the kids, too, not just any frustration she may have had with you, especially if she’s talking about wanting to find herself…. but she isn’t going to find whatever it is she’s looking for outside of herself. She needs to learn to BE the things she thinks she needs to look for because finding those things in someone else is only temporary (especially inspiration… she needs to figure out how to inspire herself). It might actually be beneficial for her to go to therapy, as well, especially since she’s being hostile and nasty. That tells me there’s more there to her feelings that she needs to work through.

    It doesn’t sound like there was really any sort of betrayal that got in the way and instead it was just life stressing you both out and pulling you apart, but that doesn’t mean you can’t come back together again.  I also think it’s quite normal that her feeling haven’t completely changed since you’ve turned yourself around, because those things take time… QUALITY time. She fell in love with you for a reason, so she just needs to be reminded of that reason. You’re going to have to treat it like you’re trying to win her all over again with the dates and whatever else you did to win her heart the first time. That love is still in there somewhere, it just needs to be reactivated.

    Do you think she would ever consider marriage counseling? Marriage is a commitment made to work through anything, including falling out of love, so even if she isn’t sure whether or not she wants to work through things, it’s worth a shot to at least try and see how things go, especially with kids involved.  I have been coparenting a split home for 13 years now, and it is NOT fun or easy. So at the very least, hopefully she will at least try for the kids. That’s so important.

    December 17, 2018 at 7:37 pm #269753
    meyerjg
    Participant

    Valora, thank you for your response. You have no idea how much I appreciate it in this moment. And thanks for sharing your unique perspective built on your past experiences. I agree with so much of what you said.

    On the topic of marriage counselling and therapy (for her), I have suggested both and the idea is met with a lot of resistance. Especially couples counselling. We actually discussed it over the weekend and she feels like they’re just going to “convince her to make it work.” That response initially bothered me a lot, but with further reflection, I think it just means she’s scared she’ll be talked into staying and wind up unhappy for the rest of her life.

    I’m with you on the meaning of the commitment of marriage. Her response to me making that case was that she didn’t realize she’d ever feel like this. :-/

    So, initially, I had started down the path of trying to “win her back” with a return to how we used to be. I set up a few date nights, bought flowers, tried to be charming/flirty. She actually gets irritated with it. I think she feels like it’s forced? Most recently I set up a plan for our kids to be taken care of for a week in March, and I was setting up a pressure-free vacation for us. It wasn’t supposed to be romantic or anything, just an opportunity to have time together away from day-to-day life. She declined, and said she didn’t want to go with me. Ouch, what a gut punch.

    Anyways, I feel like I’m going on and on about all of this. It’s just that I’m deeply struggling with how to interpret everything. She’s still “here” and hasn’t actually said she wants this to be over, only that she doesn’t know. So it’s better than it could be but I feel like I’m wearing so dang thin.

    So my short term goals are to try and just focus on each day, to stop talking so much about where we’re at, and to try and get her to talk to somebody…anybody. She hasn’t even talked to her mom about what’s going on, and they’re normally pretty close. I find that it all so strange. And I’d also like to have the conversation again about whether we’ve really “tried everything” and that we owe it to ourselves and to the kids. I hate having to plead my case but I feel like it needs to be said.

    Thanks again for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it.

    December 18, 2018 at 5:19 am #269781
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear meyerjg:

    You wrote: “I’m deeply struggling with how to interpret everything. She’s still ‘here’ and hasn’t actually said she wants this to be over, only that she  doesn’t  know”-

    This is my understanding  at this point: she is and has  been angry with you for a long time, has already settled  in her mind that she wants out of the marriage. She just  doesn’t know how to exit and she doesn’t have the courage to exit. She needs an  inspiration to fuel her exit and  she needs a plan.

    Like you wrote, she is still here with quotation marks, “here”. But emotionally, she is there, gone from the relationship with you, this is why she has no interest in couple counseling or in your efforts to improve yourself and rekindle her interest in you.

    “She wants to  find somebody who really knows her (she feels that I don’t) and inspires her”- she is there, with that “somebody who really knows her .. and  inspires her”. Only that somebody is  not in her life yet.

    “She keeps brining up the inspiration thing”- she needs the inspiration to leave. Based on my understanding, it is not wise for you to try to rekindle her feelings for you (by sharing with her progress you make in therapy, giving  her flowers, scheduling date nights, etc.) These efforts only serve to repel her and  anger you. I would say, all  such efforts need to end.

    As things  are, she  may feel in love with you again only if she gets scared about leaving, only if she  gives up on waiting  for that inspiration and that “somebody who really  knows her”.

    What do you think so far about my understanding and this one suggestion? I have more but need your input.

    anita

     

    December 18, 2018 at 5:23 am #269783
    Valora
    Participant

    I’m glad that you talked to her about counseling. I think a lot of people don’t really understand what counseling is or what it’s like. Convincing her to make it work won’t actually change anything and the counselor will know that, so they’re much more likely to just help you two to communicate better and find the things that will help reignite the spark/love, which would make both of you happier. It’s good that you took the time to reflect on her response, too, rather than just being upset about it.  Lots of times people feel the way they are feeling for what they think are good reasons, when they really might not fully understand something, so another conversation about how counseling is beneficial might help. Even if she just commits to going maybe 2 or 3 times (because the first time will be an initial intake and not true counseling) and can get a feel for what it would be like. Tell her she can literally tell the counselor that she does not want to be convinced to make it work. The counselor wants to hear exactly what she’s thinking and feeling. Then she might feel more comfortable with the idea.

    You might also need to ease into the charmingness/flirtiness because it MIGHT feel a little fake to her if it was sort of an abrupt change or if she isn’t used to you doing that anymore. It’s sort of something that gradually needs to be worked up to as she responds more.  I have an ex-boyfriend from 15 years ago that has sort of been seemingly trying to win me back because he flirts in that way, tries to be playful like we used to be (we’re still friends), and it just feels super weird to me. haha. So I get how that might make her feel.  The date nights are good though, especially if there is anything you know she loves to do in particular. Do those things… or things you two haven’t tried yet but maybe always wanted to. Fun, new experiences help people to grow closer. I’m a little surprised she declined a vacation but she may not be ready for that if she’s feeling really distant, so just plan little fun things, not too overboard and no grand gestures because that can make it seem like you’re trying TOO hard… just do the little things. Those are the ones that count, especially the little things she likes.  Like maybe instead of flowers, if you know she has a favorite food from a restaurant or snack or dessert, pick that up for her and surprise her with it (but make sure she hasn’t already made dinner. haha). Things like that. If you notice anything you could do that would make her day easier (like the dishes or something), do that. Those are the things she will appreciate, and appreciation leads to all sorts of good feelings.

    I totally understand why you feel like you’re wearing thin, going through all of this, but hang in there. You guys have a chance to turn things around, but it’s not going to happen immediately. You have to rebuild brick by brick, so that’s also why any abrupt changes (or any that FEEL abrupt to her) or grand gestures are going to feel forced or fake. Just pay attention to the little things, do the little things, plan the little dates, and eventually you can work up to the big things and the flirting and all of that but not until she starts responding more to it. You know what I mean?

    Otherwise, your short-term goals sound great. She’s probably tired of that conversation altogether and it just reminds her of how she’s feeling right now, which will reinforce that feeling.  If she can talk to someone else about everything, she will likely feel a lot better, but in the meantime, just keep working on you and do little things for her that she’ll appreciate. Think positive and keep your outlook focused in a positive direction. I agree with having a conversation with her about owing it to yourself and the kids but maybe wait a little bit if she’s already tired of talking about it. Give her a breather and maybe she can be headed into a more positive space with her feelings towards you before you have that conversation, especially if she hasn’t totally given up yet. You have a little time before that conversation needs to happen.

    Good luck! I have lots of hope for you guys. I believe things can get much better for both of you, it’s just going to take some time and can’t be rushed.

    December 18, 2018 at 7:09 am #269799
    meyerjg
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Thanks for taking the time to reply. Before I respond, I wanted to note that I interpreted your response as more on the hopeless end of the spectrum; that for all intents and purposes, it’s over, that my efforts are futile, and that all is lost and I’m reduced to waiting for the hammer to drop. Maybe that’s not what you meant.

    This is my understanding  at this point: she is and has  been angry with you for a long time, has already settled  in her mind that she wants out of the marriage. She just  doesn’t know how to exit and she doesn’t have the courage to exit.

    It’s possible and, I won’t lie, that’s my fear. However I don’t think she has settled in her mind that she has to leave. At least, I don’t think she has consistently settled on that idea. She may be in that mindset on some days. BUT I think that it seems like she’s primarily confused and scared of being unhappy.

    she needs the inspiration to leave. Based on my understanding, it is not wise for you to try to rekindle her feelings for you (by sharing with her progress you make in therapy, giving  her flowers, scheduling date nights, etc.) These efforts only serve to repel her and  anger you. I would say, all  such efforts need to end.

    Inspiration to leave – maybe that’s the case. It’s certainly not the context in which she brought it up to me. She wants somebody to inspire her to be a better person, to live a better life. I actually think this makes sense and feel the same desire for inspiration. Since having kids, both of us fell into a pattern of stagnation. Very little growth as all of our energy was directed to work and kids. Neither of us set any goals to work towards.

    The difference is, since feeling like I have been awoken from the shock of this situation, I’m finding that inspiration internally, and it’s helping. She needs to do the same. I’d love to be inspiration but it first has to come from within.

    So, anyways, she may just need to find the courage and the inspiration to leave. She may also need to find it to stay. She certainly wants a partner who fuels that inspiration for self-improvement.

    You mentioned “based on your understanding” a few times, as in the quote above. May I ask where you draw the understanding from? Personal experience? Things you have read? I’m genuinely curious. I think there’s a lot to be learned from the experience of others.

    As things  are, she  may feel in love with you again only if she gets scared about leaving, only if she  gives up on waiting  for that inspiration and that “somebody who really  knows her”.

    So you’re saying the only way you see her feelings returning is if she gives up and “settles” for me? Maybe I’m misinterpreting. Obviously, this is not what I want for her, nor do I feel like I deserve to be settled for.

    December 18, 2018 at 7:22 am #269801
    meyerjg
    Participant

    Thanks Valora, I am so appreciative of you taking the time to share your story and your perspective with me. It has given me a lot to think about. A lot of what you have said echoed the things that my therapist has been telling me (good god….never thought that’s something I’d have to write. lol) which at least helps me feel like I’m spending my time and energy in the right places. Still messing up along the way, especially in regards to being patient and not attempting to rush things, but just doing the best that I can. Honestly I think one of the biggest things that needs to happen to at least move things in one direction or the other (on her end) is that she needs to talk to somebody neutral. Like you said, even if it’s just 2 or 3 times, I think it’d be helpful for her to verbalize and understand her feelings.

    I appreciate the well-wishes. Good luck to you as well!!

    December 18, 2018 at 8:26 am #269817
    Valora
    Participant

    You’re welcome! And being patient is definitely hard. I still struggle with it sometimes, too. I think our minds tend to want to rush things so that we can get back into our “comfort zone” and a lot of times, we then attempt to control a situation that can’t really be controlled, and that ends up making things worse. So it’s important to be mindful, don’t rush, don’t push, don’t try to control the situation (not that you’re controlling but we all have trouble going with the flow, and any time you’re not going with the flow, you’re trying to control), just keep working on yourself and making a nice, gradual effort with your wife wherever you can. Staying positive and keeping a good outlook on the situation is important, too. I disagree with Anita’s assessment that she’s only looking for inspiration to leave, but the fact is that neither of us know your wife, so either one of us could be right or wrong… however, you DO know your wife, so if you think your wife hasn’t made that decision in her mind yet, it’s likely she hasn’t. I think you can trust your own assessment here.

    Your wife might also be a little resistant to therapy because of the stigma it still has around it, but hopefully in years to come, people will realize how helpful it is.  I really think almost everyone should go at some point, even just for a short time, to learn healthy coping skills and communication.  That’s always been one of my strong suits and I STILL learned a lot by going to therapy. haha.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by Valora.
    December 18, 2018 at 9:56 am #269831
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear meyerjg:

    I don’t think you should stop your efforts to save your marriage,  only that you should  stop the efforts that haven’t worked and are not likely to work. My thought was that after figuring out what doesn’t  work,  you can figure out what may work. I didn’t consider what may work because I don’t have enough information.

    These are the efforts on your part that did not work:

    1. Expressing to her the progress you make in your individual therapy: “I’m hoping that working through my own problems and getting more  of ‘myself’ back will reinvigorate my wife’s feelings for me. So far, they haven’t”- you stated it didn’t work and you added that “she’s dismissive of quite literally everything I excel at or am practiced at”.

    2. Suggesting to her and encouraging  her to attend individual therapy for her and  marriage counseling for the two of you: “On the  topic of marriage counseling and therapy (for her), I have suggested both”. Her response: “the idea is met with a lot of resistance. Especially couples counseling…she feels like they just going to ‘convince her to make it work”.

    3.  Dates,  flowers and such: “I had started down the path of  trying  to ‘win her back’ with a return to how we used to be. I set up a few date nights, bought  flowers, tried to be charming/flirty… setting up a pressure-free vacation for us”. Her response: “she actually gets irritated with it… she declined, and said she didn’t want to go with me”.

    Now, let’s look at what she told you: she mentioned  “being happier  alone”, that “she wants  to find somebody who really knows her (she feels that I don’t)”, and she doesn’t want  to attend  marriage counseling because “they’re just going to ‘convince her to make it work'”-

    she thinks that she will be happier without you; she wants to find somebody who will really know her,  and that somebody is not you, and that she doesn’t want a counselor to talk to her into making the  marriage work.

    You wrote in your post to me: “BUT I think that it seems like she’s primarily confused and scared  of being unhappy”. From what you shared she is quite clear, not confused. But maybe she told  you other things, contradictory things,  that you didn’t share here that leads you to believe she is confused. Did she?

    I mentioned “based on my understanding” earlier so to communicate to you that this is my personal understanding, that I know it is not the absolute, objective truth. My understanding often develops with time, throughout ongoing communication with members here, sometimes I am wrong and I correct myself. I learn and  this is my point: I like learning and encourage you to learn. This is why I suggest that you learn what doesn’t work and find out what may work.

    anita

     

    December 18, 2018 at 11:52 am #269885
    meyerjg
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Certainly, that is absolutely good advice. One of the books I had read discussed that when something doesn’t work, we often have a tendency to do more of the same, only more intensely. I’ve tried to keep that in mind. It’s difficult to know when you’re facing a dead-end and when persistence is necessary. For example, I think encouraging her to speak with somebody else (a friend, a therapist, a couples counselor) demands persistence because she is reluctant but would benefit immensely. The goal in that instance isn’t to save our relationship; the real desire is to for her to sort through and understand her feelings, regardless of their impact on our marriage. So I don’t think that’s an effort worth abandoning entirely.

    But yes I definitely agree that a new approach is required. And maybe that approach is to back off a bit. I don’t know. This is hard.

    Also, yes, she has expressed that she’s confused. When I said that she said she thinks she will be happier, what I should have said is that she thinks that she might be happier. There are a whole lot of “I just don’t know” statements that come up in our conversations.

    She’s clear in what she wants, but unclear on how to achieve it, whether it’s something that we can achieve together, and whether she can get over the pain she’s been through and feel the same way about me/us. Well, she’s either confused and truly doesn’t know, which is what she says, or she has made up her mind and is afraid to admit it to me and/or herself, which she said is not the case.

    Thanks again for the advice. It’s definitely something good to keep in mind, because what I have been trying up to this point hasn’t been working in all of the ways I want it to.

    December 18, 2018 at 12:16 pm #269893
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear meyerjg:

    You are welcome. You read to me like a reasonable, logical person and I understand the stress of work, a health condition you mentioned, having two young children. I understand you were not a good  partner to your wife, that she tried hard before, and that now she is not fully there in the marriage, considering an exit.  A tough place for you. I do hope things get  better and soon.

    If I was you, from the limited  information I have so far, I would back of from efforts 1, 2 and 3. I would continue individual therapy, for as long as it is helpful to me, but not share my progress there with her (effort #1) unless she asks. I would back off, like you suggested. Give her the space she needs  to breathe, better she has that space  within the marriage than if she rushes into separation and divorce so to be able  to breathe!

    Maybe she needs that space, that time with no pressure from you, nothing that even appears  like pressure coming from you. I am thinking her stress and distress can be swaying her toward extreme thinking, as it  does to us all.

    Maybe a vacation for her is a good idea, it just occurred to me, but without you or the  kids. Just her. What do you think?

    I will soon be away from the computer and back in about sixteen hours.

    anita

    December 18, 2018 at 2:01 pm #269899
    Valora
    Participant

    She’s clear in what she wants, but unclear on how to achieve it, whether it’s something that we can achieve together, and whether she can get over the pain she’s been through and feel the same way about me/us. Well, she’s either confused and truly doesn’t know, which is what she says, or she has made up her mind and is afraid to admit it to me and/or herself, which she said is not the case.

    I’m kind of wondering if even reading a self-help book or two might help, especially if she really doesn’t want to go to therapy.  She can get what she is thinking she needs while still in a relationship with you, because most of what she’s looking for is already in herself, she just needs to bring it out. Some time and space to think, like Anita suggested, might help with that, too.

    Maybe take a look at some of Kerwin Rae’s stuff and see what you think. He has a lot of videos on his Facebook page and his advice is geared towards entrepreneurs, but it’s great general life advice, too.  I’m going to have to put some more thought into this to remember the exact books or teachers that are really helpful, but I know there are some really good ones that teach how to find what you’re looking for by BEING what you’re looking for rather than trying to find it from an outside source, and that would probably be really helpful for your wife. If she knows that she can stay married and yet still find her happiness and inspiration, that might ease her mind.  I love Kyle Cease, too, but he might be a little “out there,” for some. haha. You can check into him too and see what you think, though.

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