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A journey of self destruction and fear

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  • #223657
    NaC
    Participant

    For as long as I can remember, I’ve been managing, on a daily basis, the state of my mental health. Instead of the usual prescription of drugs and anti- depressants, I’ve overdosed daily on my self-medication of inspirational quotes,  Ted Talks proclaiming the secret of self love and happiness. I’ve taken advice from Les Brown until I bled from ears about how to get unstuck and from Tony Robins about where to find my purpose and certainty. I’ve self- helped my way into daily water treading for longer than I can remember. The point is I’m physically, mentally and emotionally spent- I can’t do this anymore. I’ve started to take on water and breathing is getting harder. The waves of darkness come and go and each time also comes the ability to ride it out and know that it will pass- eventually, and there will be respite. Over time, the effect this has had is one of acceptance and tolerance of the fact that this happens and the impact it has without actually understanding the gradual cumulative effect on my overall wellbeing.

    Six years ago my marriage ended. Actually, cross that- it ended sometime before and we physically parted six years ago. 

    The lead up was quite typical; both focused on work and our two daughters at the cost of us. When we finally made the decision, it was more of a relief and we selfishly moved into the next part of our lives to graze on the greener grass and have the life we always wanted.

    The truth is, after six years, we don’t have the life we always wanted- why? Amongst other things, unbearable guilt and grieving. 

    This is the reality, I think when couples split- that the utopia we believe exists where our children will not be affected and they will welcome new partners and step parents with open arms and smiles and everything will be just like it was with mum and dad but instead, mum and dad will be happy.

    This was not my reality. My reality was that I started a six year journey to today of pain, suffering and an overwhelming awareness of every emotion, self doubt, self loathing, insecurity, vulnerability and loss.

    My journey to today and the position in which  I find myself  is scattered with wrong choices and turnings at such key critical times. I’ve turned left instead of right too many times- all in the name of trying to regain happiness when in reality, all I’ve ever done is take myself further and further away- both physically and emotionally from the true love of my life: my daughters. 

    I’ve been searching for answers for too long. Why? Why did I make choices that took me further away? Was it survival, financial, personal growth or challenge? Yes, there were elements of all of those but the real answers lie within me- within the core of who I am and how I see myself.

    Throughout my life, I’ve always been massively insecure but in my marriage and work I gained the feelings of self worth through achievement and hard work. I was committed, focused and  believed myself irreplaceable and amongst all of that, believed it would all last forever and nothing would change. But that night, when we agreed to part, a lid was lifted on my soul that allowed all the demons and depths of me to be released and unleashed on my life; my very existence.

    My first mistake was my first relationship after my divorce. I met a woman my children didn’t like and after a reasonably short period, I moved in with her and her children: two girls! This was about an hour away from my girls and whilst I kept up my commitment to them and drove many miles to do so, we lost our base and life became about eating in pubs and just hanging around together. We lost meaningful connection and at times, I felt I was doing my duty. My close relationship with my girls was fading and unbeknown to me at the time, their hearts were breaking. 

    So many times over that period I nearly moved back to be with them. I didn’t sleep and the change in me started back then. I was diagnosed as depressed and given medication but soon took myself off it, I guess, due to pride and self perceived stigma. Instead I went the organic route of self help books, audios, you tube clips, those really twee inspirational quotes: anything I could find a little glimmer of understanding in, I became addicted. 

    Eventually, after around 3 years, I had worked up debt (for various reasons) and needed to do something drastic. My ex wife at the time was seeking permission to move to London with my youngest daughter (my eldest was on the verge of uni) and at the same time I was offered redundancy. I saw this as an opportunity to address my debt- even though I would be at risk of no work. I made a very short sighted decision, focused only on one problem and took the redundancy. At the same time, the opportunity to work on the opposite coast of the country arose and, after discussion, decided to take it. Again, one problem- turned left and got on with it. 

    I moved to work and travelled to see my partner at weekends. Inevitably, with the strain of that and also my declining mental state, we split.

    Now I was living alone in a town with no friends, family or familiarity- every worst nightmare for me. I sank into a lonely depression. What for most people would have been an opportunity, a fresh start – for me was a nightmare. There were brief periods of respite where the novelty lifted me temporarily but the normal status was very sad and I slipped into reclusiveness, I started drinking, embarked on worthless relationships and along the way hurt people too. I cried a lot in my flat alone and tried so, so many times to drag myself out of the new hole I’d dug. I yearned for some understanding so I could get to the root cause and start to work on the solutions- but I could never find them. 

    I worked so hard on maintaining my face time with my girls- driving thousands of miles to be with them and trying so desperately to recover our lost time together. All this time, I could see them growing up and my relationship with them becoming weaker and weaker- and it was killing me. 

    I met someone and started a new relationship a year and a half ago. It  was happy and a short term reprieve from my pain but after a while, my normal state reappeared and today, I’m back where I started again.

    This isn’t ever going away for me. I feel I’ve done enough ‘work’ on myself to understand the problem. Ultimately, I am so insecure and have the most overwhelming feelings of worthlessness that it is so strong to allow me to make the choices I made over something that is so precious to me. The worst of it is, through fear, I remain today paralysed within inaction. Its like I’m stuck in wet cement and can’t move and I don’t know why! 

    I hate myself, what I’ve become and cannot get to a place where I can even see happiness on the horizon.

    I’m broke, in debt (long story of ex wife putting me back there) and at an age of 50, don’t see any sort of future for myself now.

    I try to remain focused and practice gratitude and I know, deep down, I have so much to be thankful for. I want to be the person I want to be but I’ve reached a stage where I am totally spent and exhausted. I feel on the verge of a complete breakdown. I have, through my turning inward state of being, lost friends, relationships and I am very much alone. 

    I don’t see a way out anymore and I’ve lost faith in the methods that have been keeping me afloat. I read and hear the same stuff over and over because I’ve been doing it for so long now and it’s just become white noise. I feel I was better off unaware of all of this as I was in my marriage. 

    I don’t know the way out of this anymore. I think too much has happened and too much time has passed. I’ve lost so much of my girls’ life where I should have been living with them and that now, is the hardest pain I feel. 

    I decided to write this letter as partly because I have no-one to talk to, but mainly by way of seeing if writing it all down would help. 

    It hasn’t.  

    The way my mind works is that I expect those reading this to judge me and that the answers may be simple. I feel I have slowly unpicked my life and once, where I had what I now see as everything, I have almost nothing. I don’t see a way out. I’m desperate, unhappy and very, very lost. 

    #223673
    Brandy
    Participant

    Hi Neil,

    I read your post twice. I’m unable to reply at this time but will within the next 24 hours.

    Good choices happen when we’re in a healthy mental state, able to think things through logically, make good predictions and evaluate our options. You’ve been unhappy and struggling for so long, it’s no wonder that the choices you’ve made along the way turned out to be the wrong ones for you. Perhaps each was a simple attempt to persevere. The way I see it, the sequence of choices/events that led you to this point could have happened to anyone, including a really good person.

    I’m so glad you reached out.

    B

    #223713
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Neil:

    You wrote: “I feel I’ve done enough work on myself to understand the problem”, but reading your post twice I didn’t see the problem defined or specifically and clearly stated.

    You didn’t mention psychotherapy/ counseling as part of that “work on myself”, did you attend such and if you did, what happened there?

    anita

    #223741
    Brandy
    Participant

    Hi Neil,

    I just now read your post for the 3rd time. You write beautifully. Wow.

    I’m totally unqualified to provide counseling to you or anyone else, so keep that in mind as you read anything from me. 🙂

    Like I mentioned in my previous post to you, I can see this sequence of events happening to anybody, and I don’t see any of the choices you’ve made as irreparable. My gut tells me that following your divorce you felt a tremendous amount of guilt that you couldn’t let go of, and that this and the powerlessness you felt within the situation created your depression. Everything that happened after that was simply a consequence of making a big decision from an unhealthy mental state.

    The very first thing I would do if I were you would be to make an appointment for counseling and give the counselor a copy of your original post. Seems the thundering guilt and regret you feel as a result of your choices are keeping you “stuck in wet cement”, as you described. The counselor should help you to let it all go. Imagine what that would be like, that is, not ruminating, having a clear mind. I’ll bet it’s been a long time since you’ve had a clear mind. I wish that for you very much. Next, I would tell myself that I deserve to be forgiven…for every single mistake. Every single one. I would then list all of my regrets, one by one, and do my best to correct my misdeeds. With regard to your two girls, it’s never too late to rebuild the relationship. Be honest with them. Kids (yours are teenagers, right?) want the truth. As parents we make all kinds of mistakes every single day. Own them, apologize for them, then get back on track. Be the best dad you can be starting right now. Are you still working on the opposite side of the coast? If so, how’s that job going? Are you able to make payments toward your debt? Are you still drinking?

    You say you don’t see a way out of this anymore. I see some ways out.

    B

    #223807
    NaC
    Participant

    Hi Brandy,

    Wow! Where to start!

    Firstly I want to send you my deepest thanks for taking time out of your life to read me three times and then have the decency to reply. I thankyou for your compliment too- it means a lot to me.

    You are completely accurate in all of your observations and also articulate them in a way that is very honest and easy to understand. Thankyou.

    You’re right about guilt following the divorce. I guess we all feel guilt for different reasons and hang on to it for different reasons too. Maybe the guilt shifts from reason to reason over time as we reflect and become more self aware. After a period of time, my guilt was centred around actually wanting to get some space and just be by myself- that need to be able to breathe and, as you do insightfully say, get that clarity of thought.

    I believe guilt is just an all consuming emotion and we hang on to it partly to punish ourselves but also to tell ourselves that if we feel bad about what we did, then we must at least be a part good person or we wouldn’t feel that way. It kind of feeds our unhealthy state and before we know it, if we can’t break the cycle, it becomes a drug to us.

    On reflection, the work I’ve done through self awareness, emotional intelligence has all been about trying to find that little chink in the cycle of guilt: some little nugget of wisdom that resonates to the point that it is strong enough to begin the recovery process.

    I will try the exercise you suggested. I will list everything and try to forgive myself. 

    I am still working in the same place- my work is tough, I’m heavily involved in a change process and it’s not helping right now. My girls are on holiday with their mother in the location we used to visit as a family- again, not helping right now either.

    I drink every day- not to the point of passing out or drunkenness but to just help me slip into relaxation a little. I don’t see it as a problem and I feel I could stop anytime. I am getting back into running and exercise but just don’t have the passion right now as used to.

    I want to be happy, I don’t want to be the version of myself I’ve created slowly over the past six years, I want to laugh again, find love and squeeze every drop out of this life that I can- it’s just right now, I can’t see past each day and the next holds no change.

    I do thank you so much for your post and for taking the time to connect. You sound like a very caring and empathetic woman and maybe counselling should be your thing ?

    #223917
    Brandy
    Participant

    Hi Neil,

    You are very welcome. This website is amazing. I’ve learned so much about myself here, so replying to you doesn’t come from an entirely unselfish place, to be honest.

    Your insights on guilt are excellent! Recognizing that “little nugget of wisdom” within my guilt cycle is key I think, and what’s dangerous is when I ignore it, tell myself fictional stories to convince myself that I shouldn’t feel guilty at all, or surround myself with “yes” people who tell me what I want to hear instead of the truth. I guess if I can fool other people then I’ve done nothing wrong, right? Ugh. Sadly, I’ve done this more than I care to admit.

    I think it’s fantastic that you’re getting back into running/exercising, and I’m not just saying that; I’m a believer! I find that as I get older it gets exponentially more difficult to get fit again after taking a break, so no more breaks for me. So I do things like register early for community 10K races just to keep myself mentally and physically in the game. Outdoor exercise for a quick attitude adjustment is like magic, for me. Lap swimming as a cross training activity to running is also an idea if you have access to a pool.

    I find alcohol somewhat tricky. I never drank it until I was a new mom and the ladies in my circle would periodically get together for a “girls night out” which always included some drinking. (I discovered early on what a ridiculous “lightweight” I am — 1-2 drinks tops). It’s fun and relaxes me for sure but ultimately makes me feel bad, both physically and mentally. I realized this during a period of my life when a family member was facing a serious illness that required surgeries, radiation, and a mountain of research on my part. The pain, uncertainty, and stress associated with this situation each seemed to double in size after a drink. (Not right away, though, but just after the buzz started to fade.) What I learned is that, for me, when I’m going through something tough, not feeling mentally sharp and physically good only makes things worse, takes my eye off the ball, and I lose my focus. I realize alcohol doesn’t affect others the way it affects me.

    So, back to your situation. I think forgiving yourself is huge….no, actually, monumental. Feeling worthless and hating yourself will only keep you stuck in the wet cement. The people I admire most are the ones who have made mistakes but keep getting back up, keep trying to improve, to be better people. I guess I can relate to them much better than I can to all the “perfect” people out there. No one’s got it all figured out; this I know for sure. Each day we can only try our best to be better than we were the day before. (Omg, I guess I think I’m Tony Robbins now? That’s pretty nauseating.)

    Thanks for the complement. I could never see counseling as a career for me though. Truthfully, that would be the blind leading the blind…lol.

    B

    #223979
    NaC
    Participant

    Hi Brandy (or is it Tony?), I hear you about why replying isn’t completely selfless- I hear you and understand. I have only stumbled across this site occasionally in the past and never subscribed or posted before. I’m guessing you may have posted in the past because you needed to share something and get some help yourself? 

    I think learning more about yourself is a wonderful thing and the biggest part of this journey we call life. Isn’t life about being happy and that starts with being happy in our own company. I believe that every tine we interact with another person, we learn just a little more about ourselves. If we just observe ourselves and take a back seat and listen to how we feel, respond and then have the mindfulness  and courage to explore that, we never stop growing. Already, in just a few messages, I have learned from you and that is mainly because despite the difficult situation I find myself in, my overriding desire is to move forward and grow so I’m listening to what you say, taking it in and learning. I guess that’s the reason I reached out initially and the fact that you not only replied, but did so in the way you did, has restored my faith that there are good people out there and, as I’ve always held dear, everyone has a story to tell and none of us are alone in that. The ‘perfect’ people don’t exist- not on the inside anyway?.

    So now you have me curious.im intrigued to know what ‘your story’ is. I can hear some clues in what you say but it’s the how you say it that intrigues me more. You speak so eloquently and with intelligence and ease that it’s easy to pick up similarities and areas that resonate. 

    So what is it or was it that you felt guilt for in such a way that you can identify with what I said? I love the ‘yes’ people comment. I have those in my life who, when I take the risk and be vulnerable with them and tell my story, only seem to want to appease my guilt and offer an opposing view to cancel out what I really think and feel. I know they mean well but what I want and need is someone to say ‘yeah! You’re right, you made shit decisions and it’s had an affect on xyz but let’s talk about why and get to the root cause’ instead of saying I’m a great dad because lots of dads in your position would have walked away. I don’t want to compare myself to the lower quartile of Dad Standard- I want to be compared to the premier league dads and to earn that right, there’s a journey to travel. I know people mean well but sometimes we need to walk a mile in each other’s heads to really get it and understand and therefore, be able to truly help. Maybe that’s why sites like this help? Likeminded people talking to likeminded people who know how they want to improve but just don’t know what to do next? 

    Your approach to exercise and your awareness of your physical state on your emotional state is so powerful. So many people understand the need to exercise but don’t relate that to why or their own need. In my teens and adult life, exercise has been an integral part of who I am. When I was younger I played all sports, I used to box for the army and more latterly I have run marathons to a decent standard- mainly because I was dedicated and focused. I always used running as a release and I haven’t had that in a long time. During stressful periods of my life, I would gauge how long on each run it would take to stop thinking about the source of the stress and at that point I would observe a complete shift into a different mindset where I would dream up quite innovative solutions to my problems. I miss that and that’s what I’m trying to regain- I guess I need to work on the discipline and make it a habit again. Prioritise what’s important for me and then not be afraid to be a little selfish and just do it- right!

    There’s nothing wrong with being a drinking lightweight- or even more importantly, having the awareness of what the effects are on you and the way you think. I’ve never really thought of it that way before- I’m more than aware of the physical effects (and in that how stupid I am knowing that and wanting to be fit too!) but I’d never really considered the exaggerating effect of alcohol on my mind. You see, I’ve always seen it as synonymous with relaxation. I drink at home but only in a certain environment; it’s when the day is done, I create an atmosphere in the house and then take a drink to complete the picture. I only do this because somewhere in my life I have related this to a place or a time where I felt certain and safe and that to recreate it makes things ok for a while. I have a ‘dark, rainy, Friday nights’ thing from when I was a kid and always felt safe and secure and I think it stems from that. I think I need to stop completely Brandy- maybe give myself the permission to have a chance to see my position through clarity of thought and see how that compares? I have some really tough choices to make very soon which will change my life and direction again and I need to turn right this time- but back to what you said, bad decisions are made when you don’t see clearly; I have to get back to that place of clarity.

    Right now I’m heading over to see my youngest daughter. It’s her 16th birthday tomorrow and I’ve made her a cake and I’ve just pulled over for a coffee and to talk to you and reply to your post. I get to spend a few hours with her on her birthday and then drive back. I already know I’ll feel low after leaving her and a long drive alone is not the best solution to that. But in knowing that ahead of time, I can be prepared and think positively. Small steps and keep moving forward. We all have so much to be grateful for in this life and the secret is how we remain mindful and in tune with what we do have instead what we don’t. 

    Keep trying to be better each day- and never stop. Thankyou again for taking time out to talk 

    N.

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    #224097
    Brandy
    Participant

    Hi Neil,

    No, I don’t think I’ve started a thread here in search for advice (yet). Some years back a friend of mine who shares my interest in mindfulness and meditation gave me a Tiny Buddha book as a gift, so I checked out the blog and forums and was instantly captivated, especially as I read accounts describing how a person’s childhood can really mess up his/her life. I’m totally fascinated with it all but also a little worried about how my kids will look back on their youth and judge me.

    What makes me feel guilty? Maybe the better question is what doesn’t make me feel guilty? (I was raised Catholic after all.)  I guess I feel guilty about the same types of things everyone else does — not valuing important relationships and letting them slip away, being judgmental, arrogant, and selfish as a young adult, not properly thanking the few people who were important role models in my life, losing precious years with a sibling as a result of my inability to forgive, and then there’s the constant guilt associated with parenting which, well, you know all about that and how hard it is.

    What is my story? I prefer to keep it vague as I see the internet as…is creepy the right word? I’m happily married with 3 teenage kids and was raised in a large, busy family who, like yours I think, was devoted to sports. My parents both worked full-time and my days were structured: school, practice, part-time job, homework/studying, sleep. I learned a lot of good things from them but neither were great at connecting with us individually and seeing us as our own intelligent human beings with our own opinions, but no body’s perfect. I always felt safe and believed in their goodness which I still do. I was a middle kid who kept one eye on my older siblings to see what I was supposed to do next and the other on the younger ones to make sure they were in line. We all became very independent at very young ages. There were no drugs or catastrophic mistakes, thankfully. My parents were practical, teaching us the importance of education and in having at least one solid skill. I learned early on that I’m extremely left-brain dominant (logical, analytical, objective) to the point where if you asked me to draw the tree that I now see outside my window you just may get a picture of the perfect zebra. I believe in hard work as do all of my siblings who all have good jobs that pay their bills. We still all get along well but, maybe you know how this goes, spouses and extended families complicate the dynamic, so it’s no longer as easy as it was when we were kids. What was your childhood like?

    What are the important choices that you will soon be making? No pressure to share that. I understand why you wouldn’t want to.

    And how was your time with your daughter?

    B

    #224191
    NaC
    Participant

    Hi again Brandy,

    It’s interesting to see how different people get into or relate to subjects where matters of mindfulness, self awareness and emotional intelligence are at the heart. I’d never really thought or looked at life or my part in life in this way before I started to need answers to questions and in my pursuit of that, opened up a Pandora’s box of insight and power I never knew existed. Maybe that’s the key with this stuff- some of us are aware of it through curiosity and need to grow spiritually and therefore apply it in order to make minor changes in our lives whereas others stumble across it through desperation, the reaction to life impacting events and the need for answers to make large course corrections. I guess you know my case- I’ve never done this before and hiding behind a mask of anonymity I just fired an arrow out into the dark to see what would happen. I’ve read a little of other threads and intend to do so more. 

    I can relate to your comments about guilt. Do you think guilt is synonymous with regret? The guilt I feel is in the choices I’ve made and the hurt I caused (or contributed to) where my actions have directly impacted another person detrimentally. I notice the list of guilt  you feel is all related to personal interactions or relationships. Isn’t it the cruelest trick of life that the way we behave as younger versions of ourselves through ignorance and lack of awareness is rewarded with more guilt as we become more enlightened. The big challenge then is to rationalise what we are feeling, identify why and as you said to me, forgive yourself. But how can you ever forgive yourself? Surely the awakening and awareness has to be so strong to withstand any self doubt or challenge to the point where self forgiveness can only happen because you truly, truly believe that today’s version of you- the one you’ve spent a life time building and arming with tools of awareness and knowledge, wouldn’t do those things. The person who did those things doesn’t exist, it was a version of ourselves in construction that did them and we weren’t complete yet so how inevitable is it that there’s going to be an adverse effect. If we drove a half built car and crashed it because we didn’t fit the brakes yet, we wouldn’t feel guilty- we’d identify the problem, fix it and move on. 

    I have some of those same guilts which have now grown into regret- mainly because today’s version of me hadn’t even been realised. I have a brother who is in his forties who committed an act in my life when he was 18 and I don’t have him in my life because of years of being unable to forgive- or at least confront. I have let important relationships suffer to the point where they don’t exist anymore- relationships that as a child gave me so much happiness and fun.

    And parenting! Don’t get me started! I think if I try and wrap up the whole parenting guilt under one heading (which is near impossible) I would say ‘expectation’. The expectation I had of myself was higher and in not living out the dream, much sadness and sabotaging emotion and feeling has ensued. I expected better of myself and in that expectation, I have to know the reasons why and the antidote to the reasons why, I believe, will hold the key to my future happiness. 

    You say you worry how your kids will judge you? Do you believe you have something to be judged by? Don’t you already know how they see you? What are you aiming for? What will be a satisfactory outcome of their judgement? Will only perfection do? You say you’re happily married- trust me (and I don’t mean to be presumptuous) but that alone is a huge part of how they will see you- in a very good way. You know, the other thing, and I wait impatiently for this day….is that our children will only ever truly understand how much we love them, sacrificed for them and just how big a part of who we are they are when they have children of their own. There’s just no other practical demo better than that!

    I have been scathing of my parents for a period for things they ‘didn’t’ do for me but understanding what they did do is a massive counterbalance and a lesson I learned some time ago which makes me see them now with nothing but love, respect and admiration. I wouldn’t change my parents or any aspect of how they brought me up for the world- they did the very best with what they had, what they knew and they created a much better life for me and my siblings then we should have had. 

    I was the eldest of four. Two brothers and a sister- the sister two years after me, the next brother two after her and the youngest double that gap (accident apparently). My father was a very hard working, working class man who took almost nothing for himself and worked tirelessly, all his life to provide for his family. He has very little social life as a result at 77 now but he is loved by everyone for his strength, integrity and humility. He is quite simply my hero. He was once a giant, a rock and was indestructible. On Sunday morning, I was over to see my daughter and so I offered to take him swimming. To see his now frail and ageing body where once he was muscular and strong, was so sad to see and an instant reminder that nothing lasts forever- nothing! But in that moment, I loved him just as much as I always have and to see him smiling and joking as we swam together is a memory I’ll never forget now. You see, my dad is a perfect example of how to be a dad. He took it seriously and saw it through to the end. My shame, that I didn’t do that- or at least not to his demonstrable standard, is that I had the audacity to be annoyed at one point in my life that I hadn’t been pushed academically by both my parents. But it wasn’t their fault- they weren’t academics and only knew hard work and honesty- I have felt at times that the potential I showed in early life wasn’t realised because I wasn’t pushed or directed that way by them. All that really matters in life are the interactions we have with others and how we treat those closest to us and that our wealth, at the end of our lives is a reflection on the quality of that. It doesn’t matter if we have a hundred friends or just a few close loving relationships, when we leave this world- that’s all we have. My mum is similar to my dad in that she worked hard but has suffered with depression at times and her life has been affected by it. She is loved too.

    My early childhood was amazing- so basic and full of the right kind of memories. I was always active, adventurous and outdoors in all weathers. But I also got so much from the security of feeling safe and feeling loved too- a trait that has probably caused more problems in my adult life as I’ve tried to recreate it. Mid- childhood was harder, I struggled at times to truly fit in and did develop a little insecurity which has shown itself in later life too. Late childhood/ teens was harder still as I never really had focus on a future or a dream and just drifted into adulthood and hard work rather than intelligence to get by. I played lots of sports as a kid and as a family we spent so much time together and we were so close.  I look back on my childhood with fondness although I definitely recognise unchecked behaviours and mindsets from then in my adult life now which have caused problems for me. I don’t blame anyone- I take full accountability for how things are today and that is ok. I do hear you about how family dynamic changes with the invasion into the inner circle of spouses etc. It’s inevitable and it certainly has had a significant effect on my family. 

    I would share the detail of the choices I now need to make on here but like you, the internet…..creepy! I’d be happy to share over personal email but probably prefer to keep off here. 

    My daughter was 16 on Sunday and I went over to see her. I’d baked a cake for her and decorated it with sugar paste creations of gym related items including a version of her doing sit ups! She loved it and we have a lovely time- albeit only for a few hours. I’m tired of the infrequency and briefness of our interactions and it’s part of the choices comment I made.

    Listen- last point…..earlier you said about guilt and things you did when you were younger. When I was younger (or even recently) I always believed I was going to live forever and things just didn’t apply to me because I’m living forever, there’d always be just loads of time and everything would work out and life would be great. It’s only very recently, relatively speaking, that I’ve realised that’s not the case and the thoughts I had in my ignorant and unconscious state were wrong. The actions- or inaction, I took because of that mindset are wrong and as I said I believe, they came from a place that wasn’t me- or not the me of today. So please don’t feel guilty for things you wouldn’t do today. Be grateful for your awareness and the chance to never do them again or maybe put some of them right. Awareness is a beautiful gift- but only if used responsibly. You have nothing to feel guilty about! I can tell you are a good person and you just need to remember that. Speak soon N

    Ps- loving your sense of humour! ?

    #224203
    Peter
    Participant

    Your story especially as it relates to the self-help movement propensity to focus one-sidedly on the positive reminds me of the story heard of a sparrow trapped in an empty grain silo.

    There was enough grain and water to survive but the sparrow was stuck and wanted out. Each morning the sparrow would look up and see light shining though various cracks in the silo. Frantically the sparrow would fly towards some light coming through the crack hoping to find a way out, however they where never big enough for the sparrow to find freedom. Flying from one light to the next, at the end of the day the sparrow lay exhausted and frustrated on the floor of the silo.  One morning instead of look up the sparrow looked down and noticed air coming through a hole in the floor. Though afraid as it was very dark, the sparrow entering the hole which required going down a ways but at the bottom the tunnel started going upwards until the sparrow from itself free of the silo and out in the open air.

    This has matched my experience.

    The movement to improve oneself is great however its important to remember that sure it’s the tree branches and leaves that reach upwards to the light that reveals its beauty, but it is its roots that drive deep into the darkness that also bring in nutrients but more importantly stability, especially in times of bad weather.

    Just one thing about the experience of purpose. I am convinced that the experience of purpose is about what you do but being seen. It is when we are ’seen’ by others and or by ourselves that we experience purpose and meaning. After a divorce it would be natural to feel that we are not seen and so feel life as lacking purpose and meaning. So in my opinion Purpose isn’t about looking upwards but downward, looking first to see ourselves and then open up to allow others to see us.

    Sometimes the way out isn’t up but down.

    #224295
    Brandy
    Participant

    Very well put, Peter. I’ll need to read your post a few more times before it all sinks in.

    Neil,

    You are right. I never gave much thought to the difference between regret and guilt so I guess those things I listed would be considered regrets…but then each was also a choice I made that directly hurt someone too… so I don’t know. I don’t dwell on them and each has served me well, that is, left me with that important nugget of truth, so I’m okay with it all. Many people say that when they die they’ll have “no regrets” — I’m just not one of them! 🙂

    Regarding parenting, I think I’m a pretty good mom. No, the truth is I know I’m a great mom. The traps I fall into as a parent are what disappoint me. And there are many. Take the cell phone trap, for example. My husband and I were both leary of cell phones back in the beginning. For the longest time we held out, but you start feeling bad that your kids are missing out on those “crucial” group text messages their friends are sending each other.  So then the rationalizing starts: Well, if they were ever stranded on a diserted highway…so you give in, and then one day you realize your mistake.  That’s the trap!

    I totally understand the frustration you’d have by not being guided academically as a kid. I’m thinking your mom’s depression affected you more than you let on — am I wrong? Are you on good terms with your sister and other brother?  (You don’t have to answer these, btw. Also, anita had posted earlier asking you a couple questions that I am so curious about too.)

    B

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Brandy.
    #224621
    Brandy
    Participant

    Hi Neil,

    It’s Friday morning here in the US which means it’s Friday evening where you are, and I was remembering that “dark, rainy Friday nights” thing of yours and wanted to see how you’re doing. Have you dusted off your old running shoes yet? 🙂

    B

    #224659
    NaC
    Participant

    Hey Brandy

    great to hear from you again. I’ve had a few heavy days at work so haven’t had time to post on here.

    It was a rainy Friday night where I am so I lit the fire and relaxed for a while; so important to do that and reconnect with what and who you are, even if it’s such simple pleasures as rain and fire!

    its raining here again today so a great excuse to have a lazy Saturday. I need thinking space today to work through the issues I originally posted for and I journey st haven’t had the clarity or calm to do that this week. I have been running again and slowly building it up. The time alone and to just appreciate the feeling of running and being outdoors is a blessing and we can easily overlook just how much pleasure, beauty and simplicity there is out there if we stay mindful enough to appreciate it.

    im seeing my daughter next week. It’s her school parents evening so I’m driving over and staying overnight. I need to be in a place where I’ve made some choices this week so I can talk to her about it.

    what are you up to this weekend? Which part of the states do live?

    thanks for thinking of me and taking the time to write. Have a great day. N

    #224691
    Brandy
    Participant

    Hi Neil,

    I can’t possibly know all you’re going through, but I know it’s very difficult. Remember: every morning is a new opportunity to try your best. Keep doing that and see what happens.

    As a parent to teenagers, I know what it’s like to feel powerless. Sometimes the right decision is to comfort and care for ourselves first. After all, who ever said that we’re supposed to be experts at this job anyway? We are only human.

    Hey Neil — don’t ever feel any pressure to post here. 🙂

    Today I’m running all my Saturday errands that don’t get done during the work week. I live on the west coast.

    I hope you have a nice day too!

    B

    #224833
    NaC
    Participant

    I woke this morning and thought deeply about my problem. I thought about what you said about each morning and I told myself that each day has to make a difference. Each day where I don’t take action- no matter how fearful it is, is a day wasted. My dream or my goal lies on the other side of fear and until I face that fear, that’s where it will always remain. I’m trying very hard to rationalise that fear- break it down into bite size chunks so in that rationalisation, I can understand ‘what’s the worst that could possibly happen’. I am going to both cause and be in pain. I know I will have mountains to climb but if I want peace and inner fulfilment, well, it isn’t going to happen in this version of my life anyway. 

    I wish I could share, talk through it all but I have no one that either won’t be affected or is close enough. I have spoken to a friend but rewind back to your first reply to me about how you need someone to not pander to your fears or problems and be honest and open with you: that’s what I’m missing and need because in the absence of that, I’m the only one who provides that counsel and guilt gets in the way as a result! 

    I feel in on the edge of a cliff with the biggest fear of heights (which I have by the way) but I have to take the most massive leap of faith over the edge and in the fall, comes peace, calm and the clarity to see the answers but there’s a huge fear to overcome first. 

    I love the West coast. I’ve always had an ambition to go to San Francisco and run the mountains, walk the streets and drink the bars. I’ve spent lots of time in Florida and been to NY and Lake Eerie. One day maybe ? N

     

     

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