fbpx
Menu

A study in loneliness and rejection

HomeForumsTough TimesA study in loneliness and rejection

New Reply
Viewing 10 posts - 31 through 40 (of 40 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #428653
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Worldofthewaterwheels:

    You wrote yesterday (I am adding the boldface feature selectively for emphasis): “It’s been a while and I’ve been seeing a therapist… The therapist is talking about the emotional child state and the rational adult state… I think she feels I’m trapped still in my early adolescent child state…  often find myself feeling attacked by others, I guess I come across as too soft with others but it’s not in fact how I am“-

    -Like your therapist, I also think that you are trapped in an emotional child state, that of the child and adolescent that you were, when being too soft was your way to.. get along with your mother. It was not that you were born to be too soft/ weak; it was an adjustment to living with your mother.

    Your father made the same adjustment as a child, and was already adjusted in this way when he married your mother: “my mom was always at the top and my dad often seems incredibly weak… being very apologetic“-

    – your mother was at the top, strong/ dominant; your father took the bottom position: too soft, submissive, incredibly weak.

    You wrote in regard to your family of origin: “We basically learnt…that bullies always win“- the bully, as I see it, is your mother. Your father adjusted to her before meeting her (he had practice). You adjusted to her after entering the world through her..

    “My sister… has achieved a lot by steering her partner where she wants to go. I do not possess this skill“- are you referring to the skill of bullying.. of being at the top?

    The key to healthy, successful relationships is it being a Win-Win dynamic, both sides win, no one is at the bottom (the loser) while the other is at the top (the winner).

    Back to your yesterday’s post: “Therapist and family both saying just take your time and be kind to yourself. I just find that really hard… I cant let go of the need, the feeling I need, to achieve things.. to compete and do well compared to others“-

    – maybe you think that the only way for you to get up from under, to be at the top, to win, is to achieve things professionally and financially, to compete with others in these areas, and be at the top compared to them. But no: there are plenty of people who achieved professionally/ financially (your father is an example, isn’t he?) who remain at the bottom.

    You can come up to the top today, a bit, and tomorrow some more- but not in comparison to others (that’s not the real top). It is a matter of attitude and everyday practice. Something you can discuss with your therapist?

    anita

    #428657
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Worldofthewaterwheels,

    I am glad you are seeing a therapist, even if you’re not sure if “any of this introspection will lead anywhere.” It’s good to talk to someone non-judgmental and someone who doesn’t compete with you. Because so far, when you complained to your mother, you said she was “a narcissist” about it:

    My mom offers her advice but is very much a narcissist in that, she is able to play the expert when i am depressed and when i have achieved something great..she goes a bit quiet, pulls away and doesnt look happy

    Does being a narcissist mean that when you complained about your problems, she offered you advice but had no empathy? Like, criticizing you and almost lecturing you while trying to be “helpful”? (because that’s what my mother did)

    You also said:

    Whenever i am super vunerable, feeling mad at the world and upset like this..my mother has no words of support for me.. She will in fact find ways to tell me off and make me feel worse. There are times when you just want someone to hear you out, for them to tell you something that will calm you..to listen to you.

    So when you want to have some empathy and understanding from your mother, and some comforting words, she doesn’t listen. In fact, she will say things that will make you feel worse. She will mention someone who is successful (e.g. your sister), or she will start complaining about some minor problem of her own, totally disregarding your pain:

    She invariably talks about someone who has everything going well or some really small problem that SHE has and my mom is really well taken care of. In this case she said how my sibling is looking for a property to buy and i wasnt helping her (my sister just recently bought an expensive property last year) they are doing amazingly well because where they live the income is relatively good (in USA), he works and my sister raises her child and supports business but generally has a lot of free time. She wants to buy something near us and i want to be happy for her but she has had so much good fortune its sometimes too much to hear. It feels like my mom wanted to thrust that in my face again.

    You said your parents support you, but unfortunately I don’t see any emotional support (at least as far as your mother is concerned), even if they might be helping you financially:

    Im tired of looking to my parents as a source of my problems..even if they fit a picture, they have been supportive through this. I know you might say its perpetuating a certain pattern in my life but right now..i have no one else really around me.

    I have needed their help financially quite a bit

    Emotional support is at least as important as financial support. And in our childhood, emotional support is KEY for the child’s healthy development, much more important than having plenty of material things.

    My parents also provided for me materially, but I was very much deprived emotionally. And in my adulthood too, as my mother gave me money, she also expressed her disapproval of me and in general made me feel weak and not good enough. She never said she has faith in me, for example.

    I think something similar might be happening with you too. It seems to me that your mother’s support comes with a “twist” (dismissal of your feelings, criticism, comparison to others). And it might be actually contributing to you feeling hopeless and like a failure (I also just dont have faith that what i put my heart into will be a success, ive seen so much disappointment that i cant bear any more.)

    That’s why I think you shouldn’t really expect to get emotional support and understanding from your mother, because it will only bring you down. Instead, keep going to therapy and talk to someone who can really hear you, someone different than your mother.

    I hope you’ll keep sharing here, as well…

     

    #428688

    Hi Anita and Tee,

    Im still feeling very angry all the time, at stuff that others may see as “just normal life but unfortunate” its just that the “unfortunate” keeps persisting.

    I cant cope with any bad news. To escape it i go out and buy little things that add up to a lot, drink too much. I was trying to loose weight and get fit,….im unable to keep it up, thats not a surprise, my mind is on full stress. I can´t handle any small problem. My mind races with negative thoughts, i get exhausted..i get nothing done. I feel more angry with myself.

    I have several bigger issues, things going on but for the sake of an example,

    I had this body lotion that i really liked, a relative bought it while they were here a year ago. i thought “great, ill get more of this” long story short, it seems like you cant buy that specific cream anymore…, i tried everywhere, also online. Its frustrating, its also not the first time i have had this problem being unable to find a product, you start to feel you are going crazy.

    I need to emphasize that at the beginning of that i thought i could get something easily, that i would feel a sense of sastisfaction having taken care of something i needed and at the end of this story im angry, disappointed and feel despair. Its only a story about a body cream but to me its just another metaphor of how messed up my life is getting.

    I tried making a bread starter, twice..it won´t ferment.

    I tried knitting..(which ive done fine before)…i can´t keep the stitches from slipping, i can´t follow the pattern

    It seems that everything i try throws up a problem that needs fixing, and therefore takes over the project..taking the fun away and presents only issues and frustration that it cant be resolved and overcome..there is no break from this. Especially if you factor in tech issues with computers, its never ending. Its no wonder im angry all the time. And when im angry, other things go wrong…

    Basically, im totally unable to focus…im too stressed out. People say let go..i cant.

    The therapist said about one example that was particulary frustrating, “well, you tried, you did your best and thats all you can do” but that isnt ok with me. Especially when i see other people i know, seeming to get everything right, getting what they want, being complemented on their work, going out on dates, easily meeting with friends who want to see them…i dont ever. Is that just “unfortunate”? really? Or is there something else going on?

    call it the cinderella complex ?probably.

    Yes i probably had less support growing up, some people i knew got hit or got hyper controlling parents, with mine i was always glad they let us do whatever, within reason. I was a good child, did as i was told, my sister more rebellious so i guess i felt the need to be responsible, which made my sister more resentful and absent. But i had nothing to push against something i guess that leaves you wondering if you re doing the right thing..if no one says anything. I didnt get disapproval but the comparison to others was definitely present. I dont know how to fix this. To feel better about and to be able to make decisions more quickly and with more conviction. To be confident. I wondered for a while if i had some autism that i could blame but when it comes down to it i cant put a finger on it. Im just sensitive and it seems like a crime, something that puts other people off.

    Part of the process im upset about now is that i feel now i dont know who to trust.

    Ive already recently backed away from 2 former friends because im sort of realising the toxic side to the friendship…and that i put up with it because deep down i knew, it served a purpose so that i could even have any friends, without them, id have none. I still have a couple of others but they are not available to hang out all the time. I certainly miss having that every day kind of friend but its just so hard to get that without in fact being in some kind of toxic relationship. Im scared that…to have a friend or relationship with someone, we would inevitably slip into the patterns of leader/follower, with some form of abuse in one way or another. Its one of the main reasons im so wary of dating.

    I think im always trying to triple-guess what people´s intentions are. Because sometimes they can be dual or more. This is extremely exhausting and draining, then i just want to be alone again but still miss company.

     

     

    #428690
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Worldofthewaterwheels: I am looking forward to read and reply to you Sat morning (in about 11 hours from now).

    anita

    #428693
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Worldofthewaterwheels,

    I am glad to hear more about your story. I am really sorry you are suffering so much and I totally understand it is very hard, with you being very sensitive to any setback and feeling like you are only getting bad luck all the time. You’ve mentioned that you might be suffering from PTSD, as a result of bullying (online and at your workplace):

    I feel im going crazy sometimes by the way im so sensitive and reactive to things. I know it could be any combination of things, including depression, anxiety, PTSD from being hacked and persecuted online, bullied by my workplace and overhauling my problems with family or lack thereof.

    I believe that you do indeed suffer from PTSD, but in fact Complex PTSD (C-PTSD), which is another name for childhood trauma. Almost every adult who has been emotionally abused or neglected as a child, and hasn’t healed, suffers from C-PTSD, and I am one of them too.

    You once mentioned you feel chemically different than other people, and in a way, that’s true. People with C-PTSD have a dysregulated nervous system. They feel constantly on edge, in the fight-or-flight mode. They feel in danger, needing to defend themselves (fight) or run away (flight) all the time. They also feel hypervigilant and sensitive to any negative outer signal. You said that about yourself too:

    My sensitivity is therefore, really high right now. i just dont want to lose any more, experience any more negativity.

    I cant cope with any bad news. To escape it i go out and buy little things that add up to a lot, drink too much.

    I can’t handle any small problem. My mind races with negative thoughts, i get exhausted..i get nothing done. I feel more angry with myself.

    i walk around with fear, worrying about anything done wrong and its a catastrophe in my head.

    i feel like ive been beaten up mentally.

    All these are signs of C-PTSD. The good news is that there is cure for it. A big part of it is learning to find a sense of safety in your own body, and thus calming down your nervous system, so that it’s not on high alert all the time. We can talk about it more and I can give you some resources, if you’re interested.

    But I’d like to explain why I think you got C-PTSD in the first place. I think it’s related to your mother and her being a covert narcissist, and the effects it had on you. Here is what you said about your childhood:

    When i was a kid i remember i was the one helping everyone else process their emotions, trying to empathize with others was my thing. My friends were all oddbeat and sensitive in one way or another and i loved that. I never felt popular and i never felt on top of things. And i felt guilty if i ever had more, if someone was left out.

    There were times when i dumbed myself down, wore baggier clothes, i didnt speak up.

    In my experiences…when i really did well, there was always someone in the crowd visibly unhappy and it would bother me.

    I was a good child, did as i was told, my sister more rebellious so i guess i felt the need to be responsible. … But i had nothing to push against something i guess that leaves you wondering if you re doing the right thing..if no one says anything. I didnt get disapproval but the comparison to others was definitely present.

    You didn’t get disapproval, but you didn’t get approval and encouragement either. Your mother would go silent if you achieved something good, right? You said “when i have achieved something great..she goes a bit quiet, pulls away and doesnt look happy.”

    You also said: when i really did well, there was always someone in the crowd visibly unhappy and it would bother me

    I can imagine that it was actually your mother who was unhappy when you did well. Because she would get distant and silent and looked unhappy, wouldn’t she?

    You said she was very good at victimizing herself too, making other people feel sorry for her. So I can imagine how you didn’t want to “brag” about any of your achievements, because that would make her sad and distant, and possibly go into a self-pitying mode. And it would make you feel guilty.

    That’s why it was better for you to dumb yourself down, wear baggy clothes, not really talk about your successes. Because there was always someone (your mother) waiting to take away your joy and make you feel guilty about being successful.

    When you say you could never “get on top of things”, it seems to me that you could never claim your victory and be proud of your successes – because she would always take it away from you. She did it with her hidden (covert) jealousy and her self-pitying. This is what covert narcissists do to their children. I wonder if this is what your mother did too?

    If so, I can see how you were not allowed to be successful, you felt guilty for it. And of course, you felt angry about it too, rightfully so. Because you had to suppress yourself and your achievements. And you still feel that same anger, and want to prove yourself, because you were never allowed to prove yourself as a child.

    How does this sound to you?

     

    #428694
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Worldofthewaterwheels:

    Before you can find answers for your personal “study in loneliness and rejection” (title of your thread), you have to find an effective way to calm down.

    You cannot conduct a study on anything when you are as angry, stressed out and unable to focus as you are (“I’m still feeling very angry all the time… I’m angry all the time. And when I’m angry, other things go wrong.. Basically, I’m totally unable to focus… I’m too stressed out“).

    I go out and buy little things that add up to a lot, drink too much“- these are two ways to calm down that haven’t been effective for you.

    Can you address what I brought up here, in this post, with your therapist/ doctor?

    anita

    #428801

    Hi Anita and Tee,

    Thank you for the feedback, i feel when i write this stuff down i need a couple of days to come back and deal with it. Its like this endless flow of emotional stuff that doesnt seem to end.
    I think the bit about C-PTSD is very interesting, the concept that you don´t feel safe or feeling like you need to be a “warrior” to the outside world is pretty familiar.

    I realise this stuff is deep-seated and problematic. Even trying to identify my mom as a source of this issue is still hard for me. She said only yesterday that i should try EMDR therapy and had my therapist suggested it? my therapist has really only suggested i join groups, classes and get out more.

    I am unconsciously attracted to the same relationships over and over. Thus i decided to stop trying to meet people altogether but thats not really a solution either, unless i want to be alone and i dont. Its just i dont know anymore. What i am attracted to naturally seems wrong and i dont know the right way.

    I met with a friend yesterday though, we took a walk and it was nice, i really needed to meet someone. I just need more friends like that, she is older and fairly busy. I stopped communicating with another close friend..sadly i realised some things about our relationship were not great and now i cant look past it. I think the problem is that i cant complain, cant argue with friends for fear of losing them..but will anyway. If you cant be honest with each other then where is the reality. Another friend just left the area and will only be back later in the year. Its just unfortunately where i live people are usually passing through.

    Basically, ive written a whole essay on this and could go on. I have deep-seated fear of rejection and yet get constantly rejected. I fear confrontation..and get the feeling of being attacked all the time. I have the ability to stand out, i have a presence but i fight it because apparently from my youth i was taught not to be too big in order to have support.

    My head hurts from trying to understand why, and trying to motivate myself to work now is the main concern as i feel a lot of shame for not having a career. Shame! another factor that i dont really need right now.

    What happened online is just a result of my isolation i suppose, and people turn on someone who they think is weaker. Problem is, i know im stronger…maybe IM the covert narc or able to emulate one. How complicated.

     

    #428805
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Worldofthewaterwheels:

    You are welcome, good to read from you again!

    I think the problem is that I can’t complain, can’t argue with friends for fear of losing them.. but will anyway. If you can’t be honest with each other then where is the reality“- I agree with you: it is very important to be honest in the context of personal relationships (and otherwise). Holding in complaints and disagreements is distressing and exhausting. I understand your fear to lose friends if you honestly express what may not be pleasant for them to hear.

    I have deep-seated fear of rejection and yet get constantly rejected. I fear confrontation…I have the ability to stand out, I have a presence, but I fight it because apparently from my youth, I was taught not to be too big in order to have support“-

    – There is a middle way between being too big and too small,  as in being either too loud and too quiet; a middle way between expressing oneself aggressively and not expressing oneself at all (being passive). The middle way is expressing yourself assertively. Learning and mastering the skill and art of assertiveness will get you the best results when dealing with most people.

    anita

     

    #428848
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Worldofthewaterwheels,

    you are welcome!

    I feel when i write this stuff down i need a couple of days to come back and deal with it. Its like this endless flow of emotional stuff that doesnt seem to end.

    Sure, take your time. I understand it’s not easy to write it all down and feel the weight of it… so please, take it easy.

    I think the bit about C-PTSD is very interesting, the concept that you don´t feel safe or feeling like you need to be a “warrior” to the outside world is pretty familiar.

    I am glad it resonates with you. Learning about C-PTSD helped me too to understand myself better and how the sense of safety is key. And with childhood trauma, we don’t have that sense of safety (either physical or emotional or both). We feel constantly in danger, and then as a reaction, we either fight or flee.

    Even trying to identify my mom as a source of this issue is still hard for me. She said only yesterday that i should try EMDR therapy and had my therapist suggested it? my therapist has really only suggested i join groups, classes and get out more.

    I understand it’s hard for you. But actually, her trying to be “helpful” when you are down isn’t anything new, right? You said that when you complain, she always gives you advice, but also tends to dismiss the severity of your problem, or starts talking about some minor stuff of her own. As far as I understood, she is good at giving advice without empathy.

    And then when you are doing fine, she “goes a bit quiet, pulls away and doesnt look happy.

    So the dynamic seems to be like this: as long as you are down, miserable and unhappy, she seems helpful. But as soon as you are up, “on top of things” and proud of your achievements, she is unhappy.

    This is how I would explain it: when you are unhappy and miserable, she is not endangered by you because she gets to stay on top. But when you are successful, she does feel endangered, and she doesn’t like it. That’s when she punishes you by withdrawing her love and support.

    I think the problem is that i cant complain, cant argue with friends for fear of losing them..but will anyway. If you cant be honest with each other then where is the reality.

    But others..they dont stick around. Maybe they are too busy themselves or maybe its because nothing ever seems to get better for me and its painful to watch? i notice that sometimes i have to fill silence with talk because they are not saying anything, or worse, looking over my shoulder…so i have to conclude that im not much fun to be around.

    I think you might be right that when you complain a lot, it may become too much of a burden for your friends. I assume they (at least some of them) want the best for you, they would like you to be happy. But they don’t know how to help, and so they distance themselves a bit. Would you say that’s true?

    i feel a lot of shame for not having a career. Shame! another factor that i dont really need right now.

    Yes, shame is another component of C-PTSD. No wonder you feel shame, if you have been compared to others a lot.  You were in a difficult situation, because on one hand, your mother was jealous of you and didn’t like you to achieve. But it was never openly expressed – it was covert. What she did express openly was comparing you to others and making you feel worse than them. But if you were better than them (or equally good as them), she wouldn’t be happy… so it seems to me like “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation.

    Problem is, i know im stronger… maybe IM the covert narc or able to emulate one.

    No, dear World (I’d much prefer to call you World, if that’s okay with you? Because you are much bigger and expansive than what you believe!), you are not a covert narcissist.  If you were, you wouldn’t have shame about yourself and you wouldn’t think of yourself as a dork who messes up everything.

    So please, don’t think of yourself as a narcissist.  You only want your power back – power that you had to relinquish to please your mother…

     

    #430461
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Worldofthewaterwheels:

    I just wanted to tell you, it’s okay if you don’t want to, or can’t type a post and submit it. It’s okay. I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone and rejected (“loneliness and rejection”) tonight, simply because someone is thinking about you and sending you this message.’

    anita

Viewing 10 posts - 31 through 40 (of 40 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Please log in OR register.