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Anita – how do I find my joy again?

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  • #363039
    John
    Participant

    Please anyone,

    I did 2 horrible things that keep me up at night and make me hate my self..when i was about 8 or 9 years i peed in a bottle and gave it to my grandpa to drink i told him it was juice and he drank it..my parents found out,yelled at me all that..my grandpa was always good to me and he passed away years ago so i cant even apologize..

    The second event was when i was 14 i stole my fathers gold jewelery and  traded  it for a motorcycle,(the guy tricked me didnt even give me a motorcycle just took the gold).My dad said he forgave me multipul times but still my heart hurts..

    II know i am not the same person as then (i am 22 now)i try to do good and everyone thinks i am but i think i am horrible for those things..it’s like it will forever haunt me..thanks for listening anybody..

    #363108
    anita
    Participant

    * John: please start your own thread by going to the top of the page to FORUMS, scroll down to CATEGRORIES, choose one (tough times, perhaps), click it, scroll down the page to the empty boxes for the title and body of your thread.

    anita

    #363153
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dear Anita,

    It is true, many people all over the world are “living” in terrible suffering, which I believe has become continually worse ever since the industrial revolution in the so-called “advanced” Western countries.

    I would personally definitely not describe my childhood as having been a holocaust.  I know I am suppressing a lot of feelings, yet despite it all, optimism and positive expectations still lived within me until relatively recently, and I hope to find my way back to that way of being.

    I am not sure if I made you feel uncomfortable in some way when I expressed my sadness and heartfelt empathy about this description of your childhood?  Or if I perhaps accidentally ventured into an area which is part of the things you do not wish for me to mention and which you don’t want to discuss with me?  You can always say so, I would not take any offence at all, even if it is “just” regarding a single word or very specific topic.

    For me, expressing my sadness and incomprehension is because although there is indeed much suffering all around us, you are now for me like the rose who the Little Prince befriended on his planet.  He saw on his journey that countless other roses seemed identical, but it was the shared time and companionship which made “his” rose nevertheless unique and infinitely meaningful to him.

    Thank you for telling me about “Beginner’s Mind”.  I read up a little more about it.  It seems that I am onto a good thing then!

    I teared up when reading about the difference between reacting and being a creator.  That was a very helpful explanation, thank you.  I feel this is the way to go.  I am beginning to feel ever more strongly that I am not so much merely re-discovering who I am, as also deciding who I choose to be now – the “creating” you mention.

    I think I have a balanced idea of how I can expect to be able to trust you, very much as you yourself described.  I think this is because you have been consistent in your communications with me though.  I know you are sometimes tired or emotionally involved in your own processes, which is natural, but your overall constancy remains the same.  I am very aware of not feeling so relaxed about trusting other people.

    You know, what you write about your unusually realistic dream of flying made me think of something I have read about called “Lucid Dreaming”.  It is not something I ever fancied to experience as I feel the very lucidity of it unsettling to me personally.  Maybe you can read up on it and see if you feel that it matches your experience?

    When I first read your post of 28<sup>th</sup> July, 9.58 am, I was disappointed when I got to the last two paragraphs.  But I gave myself some time, as I always do when reading something from you which I don’t understand, because I know that you care and are giving me valuable advice.  Then suddenly a light went on in my head and I realised I was doing the same thing again – looking for an instant saviour and a quick exit from my pain via a therapist (those “God-like” people my Inner Child sought) Wrong!  Wrong!

    I was then so deeply grateful yet again for your support, feeling again so lucky and blessed to have chanced upon this forum and be able to benefit from our communication.   I can see a pattern emerging, as I hoped for the same thing when we communicated about the caged wild animal, and I am sure this has been at the base of many of my interactions in life so far.

    I also felt very uncomfortable for some time, wondering what I am going to do with all this pain and anger, all these emotions I would like to be free of?  The very thought of having to drag my way through years of therapy, all the well-buried horrors being dragged up to the surface again … not a nice prospect.  But at the same time it is just a plain fact that my joie de vivre is still not fully there.  Maybe I don’t need it to function, but I believe that I do, because I know from past experience that it is much easier to plan and execute when you feel full of enthusiasm and confidence, and there is also a much better success rate, and more resilience towards problems and failures.  It feels to me that living without it is like being just a life-sized cardboard cut-out figure of myself, a one-dimensional me.

    I also considered that one of the problems I experienced with my last therapist was a lack of understanding of my position as a foreigner.  I wondered if I might find an English speaking therapist locally, so I looked and to my surprise I found a lady who is also an English speaking foreigner and who specialises in Mindfulness.  I am thinking that it would be good to try and learn the emotional regulation skills from her which you have recommended to me.  I have made an initial contact.

    I reflected that I have spent a lot of my life trying to escape, always on the run, moving on, hoping for absolution in a new start.  But from today I am trying to revision my life as being with these painful feelings, at least for some time to come, but also daring to nevertheless take some active measures to start living my life again.  I am sad not to feel as enthusiastic and passionate as I used to, but who’s to say that won’t come back again.

    As usual, the day was too full, my evening is too short, and I have to be up early and out the house.  A long day ahead tomorrow.  I am going with my husband to take my old dog to a specialist for spinal injuries.  This person should be able to confirm exactly what is wrong with her, and then on Friday we will go to a specialist dog rehab centre.  Hopefully the poor sweetie will then finally have less pain.   She is such a lovely dog, I always call her my four-legged angel, as she has such a happy personality and sweet disposition.   She always loved playing with small children, she was so gentle and seemed to have exactly the same idea of fun as they do.

    Sorry if I’ve missed out responding to some points or been a bit of a grasshopper with my subjects.  My energy is rather low but I was so looking forward to responding to you.  Unfortunately my landlord interrupted me with an unexpected visit too, so my time was shortened and my concentration is even lower.

    Thank you for responding to that person crashing this thread, by the way, I very much appreciate that.

    Juanita

    #363157
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Juanita:

    I read much of your recent post. I am not focused enough at this time (getting close to 4pm my time, and it is a very warm day), so I will be back to your thread, re-read and reply in the morning, in about 14 hours from now. I hope you have a restful night.

    anita

    #363206
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Juanita:

    “I am not sure if I made you feel uncomfortable in some way when I expressed my sadness and heartfelt empathy about this description of your childhood?”- you are amazing, your ability to sense things, just amazing. Yes, I felt uncomfortable with the empathy, so much so that I made a mental note to myself to not share with you anything about my childhood anymore.

    But because of your recent post, with the quote I started this post, I have the opportunity (thank you!) to learn something about myself and make a different choice. Instead of not sharing anything about my childhood with you, I will simply tell you the truth: I am not used to empathy being directed at me, it makes me uncomfortable. But I want you to be able to express yourself and it will be good for me to be able to receive a bit of empathy, so if you feel comfortable with it, when you want to express empathy for me, please do it in a mild way, a mild form of empathy, just a bit of it, and move on quickly enough to the next topic.

    I am smiling now as I read about he rose, I feel that we are both roses for each other, because this “shared time and companionship” on this thread, is special for me too (and it being a public forum doesn’t take away from it being special)!.

    I appreciate what you wrote about trusting me, “overall constancy remains the same”- I like the way you put it. About my dream of flying, yes, I suppose it was a lucid dream, thank you for bringing it up, sometimes it helps to name something, label it, easier to put it away neatly and move on.

    “all this pain and anger.. the well-buried horrors being dragged up to the surface again.. my joie de vivre is still not fully there.. enthusiasm and confidence.. living without it is like being just a life-sized cardboard cut-out figure of myself, a one-dimensional me”- you definitely don’t read like a one dimensional you, I see/ feel your dimensions. Regarding your subjective experience, which is what you are talking about here- what I relate to is that because the anxiety I experienced as a child was overwhelming, and anxiety is a negative neural excitation- my brain, in its quest to survive, withdrew/ shut down, best it could,  from experiencing any kind of neural excitation, be it negative (fear) or positive (enthusiasm).

    You made initial contact with an English speaking therapist who specializes in mindfulness- I hope it works out for you!

    I am curious to find out what the vet you saw today (if you did) said about your four-legged angel’s condition

    I am sad not to feel as enthusiastic and passionate as I used to, but who’s to say that won’t come back again. As always, if I fail to respond to something in your post that you want me to respond to, let me know what it is.

    anita

    #363421
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dear Anita,

    just a short post to let you know that I am not yet able to reply to your last post with the concentration and ability to express myself (especially my happiness regarding your decision to accept small gestures of empathy from me), because the last two days were utterly exhausting, both from the heat, the worries about my poor old dog, and the endless hours spent with my husband.  There are also some very sad anniversaries around now, so that I’m just having to give myself time whilst I work my way through boxes of tissue and listening to sad songs to help get it all out.

    I will post as soon as I am able. In the meantime I wish you a lovely weekend.  It is a light in my present darkness to know you are there.

    Juanita

    #363464
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Juanita:

    Thank you for the note. Do take all the time that you need to reply to me further. I hope that your dog heals, that the weather improves, that you don’t spend time with people who are not good for you, and that experience all the healing that is possible for you. I wish you a good weekend and thank you for bringing the first smile of the day to my face, being a light in my morning!

    anita

    #364243
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dear Anita,

    I hope you are well?  I have been thinking of you but just not had the strength to post sooner, the past week turned out to be very strenuous indeed.

    I would first like to refer back to your post of 30th July.  I am sorry my intensive expression of empathy was too much for you, and I think you are very brave to have decided to nevertheless try receiving a little empathy from me.  I will do my best to keep my expressions plain and would like to encourage you to correct any comments you feel to be overly emotional in order to help me get a better feeling of where you stand in dealing with empathy and emotional vocabulary, because I do understand that it is not easy for you.  I think it is a good thing to try and allow new experiences though, because from what I understand, I believe this helps lead to neural reprogramming, and that sounds like a good thing to me if it can help to re-write the effects of your dreadful past.

    I am a very heart-guided person, and naturally tend to be poetic and emotional when I feel things like inspiration, empathy, etc., but whilst I know you like reading poetry too, I can imagine that it feels very different when those emotionally loaded words are referring to you, and you have that minefield past to navigate through before you can get to the words.  So you can count on me to respect and honour your needs as best I can.

    I think it is lovely to think that we are roses for each other!  Do you have a favourite rose?  Let me know if you do and I will find a photo and keep it with my notes of our “talks”.  I love roses so much, I don’t know if I have a favourite one, I like very palest pink-white scented, old-fashioned ones like “Souvenir de la Malmaison” and “The Generous Gardener”, but the most delicious rose I ever smelled (and hope to buy this autumn!) is called “Nahema”.  It’s not so nostalgic shaped and rather pinker, but the perfume is heaven on earth.

    I hope to write again later tonight or tomorrow with more details about my week, but I just have time at the moment to let you know that my dear little four-legged angel is doing a lot better.  It was an odyssey to find the right vet for her and an expensive project but my husband paid without complaining as he loves her very much too.  I would have liked to whack one vet who really hurt her unnecessarily, poor thing, but in the end we found a wonderful young lady who immediately knew what is wrong and what to do, and within 3 days my dog was able to try and get up again by herself and can walk again a little in the meantime, and is even up to wagging her tail a bit after a week now.

    She had been in such pain that she even bit my husband at one point, which she has never done to anyone in her 17 ½ years, because it hurt her so much when he picked her up, but there was no other way to move her.

    It turns out that she had nerve damage in her spine caused by arthritis, and this lead to some muscle loss of her back legs too.  Amazingly there is a medicine which repairs the nerve damage and you could really see the effects within a short time.  Now we have to take her for acupuncture and osteopathy to correct some bones, and then she will get a bit of physiotherapy – and will hopefully stay a bit longer still!  I don’t feel able to say goodbye to her yet.

    I will be post again as I would like to tell you about my first visit to the therapist, and other very challenging experiences I had this week.  It never rains but it pours, as they say.

    Take care, my dear friend,

    Juanita

    #364247
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Juanita, my dear friend:

    So good to read that a good vet diagnosed correctly your four-legged angel’s medical problem and that there is a medicine that repairs the nerve damage she suffered and that she is walking and even wagging her tail- delightful to read and see it, in my mind’s eye. And you visited a therapist- I am looking forward to read about that!

    I will respond to the rest of your recent post, and to anything you may add to it (if you are able, I understand how busy/ tired you are) tomorrow morning.

    anita

    #364925
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dear Anita,

    I hope you are okay?  I haven’t heard back from you for some time now so I wondered if you have not been well?  Hopefully just happily busy …

    I have been very busy, a lot happened this month.  I am super happy with the therapist, she is not only very nice, but I have been seriously “activated” after each session towards new and positive understanding and realisations, so it is worthwhile to do the long trip there and back.  She gives me homework each time and seems very motivated to help me, so I am really pleased.  The realisations and inner changes have caused me to need a lot of time for recuperation and inner reorganisation though, so this is partially why I haven’t been posting.

    The situation with my old dog has improved but is nevertheless still an issue because my other dog sometimes jumps on her (it’s his male dominance instinct unfortunately, he’s otherwise lovely) and this is causing her damage and pain to precisely the area we are trying to heal.  I had kept them separate, one here and one at my husband’s house, but now he has lost a major part of his income and won’t be able to keep two houses any more.  This is obviously a big thing, not just regarding the dogs, as he is also going to have to move back to this house.  (Yes, you are seeing correctly!!)

    As you can imagine, this was BIG news!  It is perhaps not as traumatic as it might have been, though obviously nevertheless not exactly what I would have wished for as an overnight surprise, because I had started to allow more personal conversations with my husband recently.  It was due to spending so much time together taking the dog all over the place in an attempt to find the right treatment.  I usually kept him at arms’ length and no conversation about our past relationship at all, but spending time together was very upsetting as I could feel how it felt to be together like in the old days.  He was a very good and kind husband for the first 6-7 years of our relationship, until the continuous downpour of things going wrong (it was always other people trying to ruin our lives, never with one another) just got too much for him, which is when he became introverted and angry, and I was the only one around to take it out on, unfortunately.

    Anyway, so I told him that spending so much time with him was too disorientating and that I needed to reduce it back to a minimum.  This caused him alarm, because what I didn’t know is that he had been wanting to ask me for a long time to give him another chance but hadn’t dared say anything, and now he thought he might not get another opportunity so decided to take the bull by the horns.  Hence we have spent the last couple of weeks speaking a lot.  I can see that he has definitely improved his awareness of his problem behaviours.  I do not know where this is going, if he is really changed inside, but at the moment we are going to have to start living together again so I will inevitably find out.  He definitely acts like his gentle old self again, and feels like that to me.

    Well, Anita, I don’t know, I would never have imagined this could happen.  I am not going to write any more today as I have an awfully stiff neck from getting in a draught, but I finally had a peaceful moment and wanted to at least post about this unexpected turn of events.

    Juanita

     

    #364927
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Juanita:

    I apologize- I forgot that on Aug 9 I wrote to you that I will respond further the day after. Every day since I thought you were very busy and that you will post when you are not as busy.

    I want to respond to your Aug 9 post first: I appreciate you being as understanding as you are about expressing empathy for me, “I will do my best to keep my expressions plain and would like to encourage you to correct any comments you feel to be overly emotional in order to help me get a better feeling of where you stand in dealing with empathy and emotional vocabulary… I am a very heart-guided person, and naturally tend to be poetic and emotional when I feel things like inspiration, empathy, etc.”-

    – true, I have a problem with overly emotional expressions, verbal, facial.. makes me feel uncomfortable. I didn’t realize it as much as I do now, because of our communication. Thank you for being as understanding, sensitive and .. for being the heart-guided person that you are.

    I don’t have a favorite rose, and I don’t know much about varieties of roses, unlike you (it fits with you being emotionally expressive, comfortable with expressing  empathy and affection, and I- not so much!). Interesting, talking about roses, yesterday was the hottest day this summer by far, and the aroma of the rose bushes right outside my door was intense.

    Regarding your post today, good to read that you are happy with your therapist who is not only very nice but effective, activating you toward new and positive understanding and realisations, and that she gives you homework every session, that she seems very motivated to help you is very encouraging.

    This is an amazing piece of news: your husband will be moving back to the house where you live for financial reasons and because he wants to give the relationship with you another chance. You spent more time with him recently, speaking a lot, because the two  of you attended to your dog’s health together. You wrote that he was “a very good and kind husband for the first 6-7 years” of the relationship, until other people tried to ruin your lives together, if I understand correctly. Those other people’s actions made him angry and he took it out on you. But recently he “acts like his gentle old self again, and you can see now that he improved his awareness of his problem behaviors. You expect to find out if he “really changed inside” once he moves in with you.

    This is a big piece of news!

    anita

     

    #364946
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Juanita:

    Part 1: This is what you shared about your husband early in June: “I know now that he’s one of those natural charmers who can wear a smile whilst they lie in your face… I never had a responsible partner at my side… I AM clear that I do not want to be with him anymore, but I feel guilty if someone does something nice for me and then veer into confusion, a bit like Alice falling down the rabbit hole…

    “I cannot ever list all the lies, it is impossible, there are too many to count. It is a continuum with every contact we have. I don’t know most of the time what is the truth and what is a lie as I find them out later, sometimes serious issues, but often about silly, irrelevant things… He often spent the whole monthly shopping money in the first week (I was the sole earner)… He spent all of my savings in secret. He told me shopping costs were very expensive (I was paying) but in reality he was siphoning money off for himself. Then he lied about that too until I proved it. He always flatly denies everything unless I can come up with proof.

    “Recent example of all the endless, mundane lies: he has lied to me every time he spoke of the outstanding money a client owes him (changing the figure 5-6 times). Then when he asked me to do a translation for that client, I discovered the real  figure- different again”.

    Part 2: Fast forward two months, and Aug 17, this is what you wrote about your husband: “he has definitely improved his awareness of his problem behaviours… we are going to have to start living together again.. He definitely acts like his gentle old self again”, and you figured the following: “He was a very good and kind husband for the first 6-7 years of our relationship, until the continuous downpour of things going wrong (it was always other people trying to ruin our lives)”.

    My input today: if Part 1 are not your lies, then you have recently veered into confusion, and have fallen down the rabbit hole because he has been recently nice to you, helping you with your dog, etc. (“I feel guilty if someone does something nice for me and then veer into confusion, a bit like Alice falling down the rabbit hole”).

    Part of your confusion is in your reinterpretation of the reason of the failure of the relationship, from him being a pathological liar and an irresponsible partner,  to —–> other people (not him) having tried (and succeeded) to ruin the relationship.

    At this point, in context of your thread, I feel like I am living in a twilight zone.

    anita

    #365179
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dear Anita,

    I can understand that you forgot to respond as you had it in mind that I would get back to you.  Exactly the same thing happened to me recently, I was waiting to hear from a friend, until my concern lead me to re-read what I had written and realised that she was waiting to hear from me!

    I too will respond firstly regarding your uncomfortable reactions to empathy and emotional language, to say that I am glad to be (albeit inadvertently!) helping you become more aware of how you feel around gestures and language with emotional or empathic content.

    Regarding the situation with my husband, I am not exactly sure what “twilight zone” means to you and don’t want to interpret a wrong meaning into your words.  What I can say is that I am sad and disappointed to read “if Part 1 are not your lies,”  Regardless of the subject matter, it feels hurtful to me to read that you are even considering that anything I said to you could have been lies.  I have tried to be very clear and open in our communications, also trying to care for your feelings and needs as is appropriate to a friendship.  I therefore do not understand why you are so quick to assume I could be lying?

    I can understand that you are not able to piece together a coherent picture of my present situation from the few pieces of information you have, but I feel your response seems to reflect a pre-determined and rather black or white viewpoint, instead of asking for more information first.  I know you usually do that with other people and I am missing that here.

    I do not feel I am suffering from any confusion at present.  What made me feel confused in the last years is that my husband was a very good man who became a very angry man.  My relationship with my husband had many good years but there were some years where he acted as described above.  When we first met, it seemed like the rest of the world (in the area we lived) had it in for us and we were surrounded by envious and aggressive “friends” and family.  He went through some extremely distressing situations without ever wavering for several years before changing and becoming an angry stranger with many bad attitudes.  The things his own family did to him are beyond belief.  They were bent of forcing him to drop me because I am of a different nationality and religion, and the lengths they went to caused his eventual bankruptcy, losing everything he had worked towards for twenty years.  Banning him from the family was just the tip of the iceberg.

    There were no relationship problems between us during those years, but as the clan continued to destroy everything they could of his life, business, family ties, friends, etc, plus some other dreadful things happened which caused him deep despair, it just got too much for him and this is when he became depressed and started to be irresponsible and dishonest towards me.  I didn’t know until some years later, but the therapist he saw for several years was an angry misogynist who encouraged my husband to be angry towards women, revengeful and blaming instead of re-discovering his own power.

    Everywhere in our lives back then there were always so many horrible things happening, with everything that could go wrong always going wrong.

    Well, so it’s up to you if you wish to continue viewing me as confused and misguided.  I have tried to give you a little more insight into the past occurrences leading to my husband’s change of personality.  In the last few years I tried to forget how lovely he was in the early years because it was so painful to have lost him, and everyone always treated me like my husband must have been just altogether “bad” and that I failed to see it before, so people also made me feel like I was stupid for still loving him.  I was still in this confusion when I first started posting.

    Regarding recent lies, I discovered that he was not lying regarding the outstanding figure but referring to how much was left to receive, and how much of this he would still have left after paying his debts.  I assumed at the time that he was lying but never asked him to explain.

    I am experiencing my husband now consistently behaving in positive and constructive ways in daily situations and I believe he has recovered from being an angry person.  I sincerely hope so.

    Juanita

     

     

    #365199
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Juanita:

    About Husband, page 1, June 6-7,

    In my words: you shared that you’ve been with hour husband for 18 years, and that within these 18 years you supported him financially for over 10 years, being the sole earner. You shared that he is a compulsive liar who said that he cannot stop lying. You shared that you played down his compulsive lying because you said to yourself something like: at least he is not violent. You shared that he was never responsible. When I asked you to  list what you referred to as his compulsive lies, you shared that you felt horror at the thought of doing so because there are too many lies to list, that it is impossible to list them all, that he lied to you in every contact you had with him, that you never know what of what he says to you is the truth and what is a lie. You shared that he was financially irresponsible, but more so, that he financially defrauded you: having spent your savings secretly, and he lied and swindled you, saying that the costs of things were higher than they truly were, pocketing the difference. You shared that you researched and proved to him some of his dishonest financial practices.

    In your words: “being with my husband (18 years)”,”I was the sole earner… I supported him financially for over 10 years”, “He is a compulsive liar.. he says he can’t stop… he’s  one of those natural charmers who can wear a smile whilst they lie in your face… I used to play down his behaviours because I was just glad he wasn’t violent… I never had a responsible partner at my side… The horror I felt is.. due to facing those ugly truths… I cannot ever list all the lies, it is impossible, there are too  many to count. It is a continuum with every contact we have. I don’t know most of the time what  is the truth and what is a lie as I find them out later.. He spent all of my savings in secret… He told me shopping costs were very expensive (I was paying) but in reality he was siphoning money off for himself. Then he lied about that too until I proved it. He always flatly denies everything unless I can come up with proof… he seldom keeps his word”.

    About Husband, page 10, August 17 and August 20:

    In my words: From the time you met him, there has been a clan of people (consisting of his family members, friends and other people) who consistently tried to destroy your husband financially, as well as in other ways. Your husband was a good man to you and the relationship with him was good for many years. He stopped being a good husband when the clan wore him down and succeeded to destroy him financially, causing him a bankruptcy: he lost twenty years of work.  As a result of the clan’s actions, he became depressed and angry. When he saw a therapist a few years ago, the angry therapist fueled your husband’s anger even more. As a result of these misfortunes, your husband started to be irresponsible and dishonest in his dealings with you.

    In your words: “my husband was a very good man.. My relationship with my husband had many good years”, “When we first met, it seemed like the rest of the world.. had it in for us.. the lengths they went to caused his eventual bankruptcy, losing everything he had worked towards for twenty years.. the clan continued to destroy everything they could  of his life, business, family ties, friends, etc.”, “the therapist he saw for several years was an angry misogynist who encouraged my husband to be angry towards women, revengeful and blaming”, “it just got too much for him.. and this is when he became depressed and started to be irresponsible and dishonest towards me”, “I can see that he has definitely improved his awareness of his problem behaviours… Regarding recent lies, I discovered that he was not lying.. I am experiencing my husband now consistently behaving in positive and constructive ways in daily situations and I believe he has recovered from being an angry person”.

    Incorporating pages 1 and 10:

    1. Page 1: “I never had a responsible partner at my side”, page 10: “my husband was a very good man.. My relationship with my husband had many good years”-

    -if your understanding of “a very good man” includes the man being responsible, and if the words “partner” and “husband” are interchangeable in your vocabulary, then there is a stark contradiction when placing these statements together. It doesn’t necessarily mean that you lied, as in intentionally stating what you know is not true. Maybe you were angry at him on page 1, your anger hijacking your thinking.

    2. On page 1, you presented your husband as “a compulsive liar” who lied to you at every contact you had with him, and you shared two strikingly dishonest behaviors on his part: one is that he spent your savings behind your back, without your consent. The second is that he overinflated the costs of things so that you give  him more money than the things cost, and then pocketing the money. On page 10, you explained his dishonesty by saying that he was depressed and angry.

    This is another stark contradiction: the adjective compulsive (in “compulsive liar”) indicates one who lies not only when angry and depressed, but at any other time, out of habit, no matter how he feels. And indeed you said that he lied to you in every contact you had with him… But on page 10, you cancelled, or neutralized the adjective compulsive, and your previous statement that he lied to you during every contact, and redefined him as an occasional liar when angry and depressed.

    Even this contradiction does not mean that you lied: maybe you were very angry at him on page 1, and your anger hijacked your thinking.

    Looking at how you came up with the term “compulsive liar” is revealing. On page 1, you wrote to me: “Do you mean that I need to learn to live with my husband with his faults? He is a compulsive liar..”- I think that you felt threatened by what you believed that I suggested (that you live with the man you were angry with). Threatened, you came up with the term “compulsive liar” so to justify why you will not live with the man you were angry with, and why I should therefore not suggest again.

    About lies, you wrote on June 6: “why did I always end up with men who lied to me? Drove me round the bend, as I find lying the pits… I had so far not connected the dots  between my mother’s lying and the lying of partners. And indeed there is a kind of unspoken law in my family that you are not allowed to ‘say it as it is’. So today I have also just begun to realise that my mother, indeed the whole family, was lying all the time.. I wasn’t allowed to ‘say it as it is'”

    My concluding thoughts: I don’t know if at any one point you knew that you were stating an untruth aka lying, or if you have let your fear or anger hijack your thinking, causing you to perceive things in exaggerated, extreme and untrue terms. What I am certain about is that you didn’t “say it as it is” to me, neither on page 1, nor on page 10.

    It is my understanding, that when you feel threatened by a suggestion a person makes, you come up with some  dramatic and even a shockingly tragic piece of  information so  to protect yourself from the perceive threat (the suggestion made). It happened at least twice: the first I mentioned 3 paragraphs ago, and another time it happened someplace in between pages 1 and 10, after I repeatedly suggested to you that you end contact with your mother. You wanted me to stop suggesting it, so you brought up a very tragic and shocking event. After I read about that event, I indeed promised you to not repeat that suggestion.

    I can’t tell whether these dramatic events happened, and whether the tragic, shocking event really happened. I don’t know. Not infrequently, “truth is stranger than fiction”.

    In whichever case, our communication has come to an end. I wish you well.

    anita

     

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    Anonymous
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