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February 8, 2018 at 12:35 pm #191505MarkParticipant
joanna, Of course you want to be with a man that makes you feel safe. I think that is a Universal need. And you know that this man is not the right person to do that. And yes, we do need to love and care for ourselves as well.
I believe we still need a community, a friend or some sort of support and caring outside ourselves in order to thrive. Ideally we also would have a committed romantic partner who can do that as well. I don’t think it is healthy to have just one person we can feel safe with.
I wish you well in your journey in finding safe people and co-creating healthy relationships.
Mark
February 8, 2018 at 12:43 pm #191509MarkParticipantjoanna,
Yes it is important to feel safe. That is a fundamental need for all of us.
I believe that is essential to feel with the people we are close to. I look to create a community, a circle of friends that I can feel that way with.
I encourage you to find that from others that can support you in a safe way for this man does not sound like a good person to be with.
Mark
February 8, 2018 at 2:05 pm #191535AnonymousInactiveDear Mark
You’re right. One person just told me when we were talking about feeling safe and I said something like “(someone) did and said those things that make you feel safe” and this friend of mine said “Well, I try to be the person that makes myself safe, and to not depend on a someone”. May sound bitter but it’s not, it’s actually very optimistic and not bitter at all. Made me think that why do I load all this hope and expectations on people who are not even able to bear it, whom I “force” to save me and make me feel safe, because I’m so desperate about it, plus as Anita said it’s a feeling, it’s a magical feeling, it’s not that real as I think. I come to so many realizations here, how to implement this to my life? Just understanding is enough? I think I see some things more clearly.
February 8, 2018 at 2:13 pm #191537MarkParticipantGreat that you are getting clarity joanna.
There is the conscious, intellectual understanding and there is the 90% (a number I made up) that is our unconscious part.
This is what triggers our behavior and emotions, our sub/unconsciousness. This is what was programmed into us when we were young. Hence your upbringing causes us to be drawn into situations and people and react despite what we intellectually “know better.”
It’s a continuous practice of mindfulness, of noticing ourselves, of self-awareness and making conscious choices in thinking and behavior.
Hopefully each time we learn more and reprogram those neural pathways just a little more toward a healthier way of reacting/thinking/behaving.
Mark
February 9, 2018 at 3:27 am #191573AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
You are welcome and take as long as you’d like between posts. Always good to read from you. I figure compared to your experience with your mother, the one with your father was the safer. Compared to her yelling at you (you shared that before), criticizing you, giving you silent treatments, her boyfriend bullying you… compared to that, your father was the safe place.
* You wrote about your parents: “they divorced… so that I would have a ‘normal and calm life'”, that is what your mother told you? It wasn’t the truth, was it. She divorced him for her reasons, not so to increase your emotional well being. If your emotional well being was her motivation, her concern, she wouldn’t have repeatedly damaged it and allowed her boyfriend to do so. (It reminds me of my mother telling me that the reason she got pregnant and had my sister was so that I will have a sister, that I will not be lonely. That was untrue as well).
Back to the comparing: in comparison to your life with your mother and her boyfriend after the divorce, your father was the safe place. A child knows only what she experiences.
You wrote a couple of posts ago about this guy: “I do not understand this whole situation… why is he talking like that now, is it about sex only, which also hard to believe since he lives with a girlfriend, why would he need me f or a sex, what’s the point of that. Is he really that damaged… “- lots of men (true to women as well) look for sex elsewhere even though they have a girlfriend or a wife. Many times there is nothing wrong with their sex life with the girlfriend or wife, they just want something different from what they have available. It is the excitement, more action in their life, distraction, something to do. He enjoyed something about you and he wants to experience it again.
In regard to a relationship with a man, the hope as I see it, is in you experiencing something new, a relationship with a man who loves you, is committed to you, is not aggressive with you, respects you, loyal to you. If you relax into such a relationship and participate in it in a healthy way, then you will have an experience that will enter that comparison sheet in your brain. Compared to this yet-to-happen experience, a guy like the one your thread is about, wouldn’t stand a chance.
anita
February 9, 2018 at 1:36 pm #191725AnonymousInactiveDear Anita,
He wanted to meet on Wednesday, I said no. Then he wanted to come by on Thursday, and I agreed but I texted him in the morning that maybe it’s not a good idea and I don’t want it to become an unhealthy relationship again so please don’t etc. He insisted that he’ll be at my home in half an hour but I still said no. He got angry and told me I promised to invite him for a tea, well I said I would but it wasn’t a serious conversation then so I wouldn’t call it “a promise”.. But he asked maybe next week and I said okay. Now I guess he wants it more when I started to resist, which I never did. I asked him why and what does he want, he said I’m his weakness and obviously wants sex but “this one time only”. When I said that’s not gonna happen he said okay, let’s just meet for a tea next week and that’s all. This is so beyond my understanding. Maybe you’re right it’s just exciting and something new for him but still it’s so weird I cant understand how can he want me and not want me at the same time. I won’t lie to you that I won’t let him come here, yesterday I cancelled and I was sure about this but I’m not sure. I want to meditate for couple of days and take some rest, some walks perhaps, it often works well for me and my well being so for a short time I’ll try to distance myself and not think about this.
Things we now talk about are just so so surprising doesn’t it even describe it. I blamed my father my whole life because he was an alcoholic, when I started to recently think about why I changed so much when I was six. Why I started to be so skinny and didn’t want to eat, became nervous. Well, my dad was drinking at this time and woke us up every night. I always knew I was a happy child before I was six. It is easily seen in pictures. But I also found out something when I was 12, after divorce.That my mother was in a relationship with this boyfriend since I was six. Thats when my dad started drinking and my life became miserable. He once said I’m not his child. I know he didn’t mean it, I forgave him this. I know it wasn’t his or my fault. I know he knew I was his child. I know he knew. But I hated him for many years. And he wasn’t strong enough for everything that happened in our lives. I forgave him this. We were both victims of cruel life. We didn’t survive it, and we both didn’t have enough strength. So it’s my hidden anger to my mother and many many more emotions which I cant even name and that are so inconvenient, as we talked earlier right? truth is always inconvenient. I don’t want to even start thinking about this, It makes me sick. It really.makes me sick. Because he’s dead now and I hated him and punished him for all my life, and now he’s gone. How can I live with THAT.
February 10, 2018 at 7:33 am #191777AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
Regarding your father: he and your mother were not good parents to you. Both. In the context of your relationship with either one, you were the victim and he/she was the victimizer.
How can you live with hating and punishing your father when he is now dead? Your hate and any behavior toward him that you consider punishing is a consequence of his actions. In the context of your relationship with him, it is you who was the innocent party and he was the guilty party. (Same in regard to you and your mother).
How to live with that.. this is how I think about it- one day I will be dead too. It is not like a parent is dead for eternity while I will be alive for eternity. I will die too, so all of my distresses have a time limit.
As far as the guy, you wrote:” How can he want me and not want me at the same time”- my answer: he wants part of you and he doesn’t want the other part of you. Reads to me, as you suspect yourself, that he wants your body. He doesn’t want your well-being, your best interest.
Let’s think about this: if he wants your body, the use of your body, and maybe he wants the sense of power over you, that he gets what he wants from you, but he doesn’t want you to be well, that is not his concern- well, how does it make you feel?
anita
February 10, 2018 at 4:28 pm #191811AnonymousInactiveDear Anita,
He says he doesn’t want to hurt me, and we shouldn’t, because he knows how I feel and we both know it’s not right and how it ends.. then another time he says “Okay let’s just meet and talk, I promise” which I know what it means, he likes the excitement, and forgets about hurting me and the fact that it’s wrong because it’s too tempting. Maybe he’ll forget and we’ll not meet, maybe I’ll say no when he asks. I’m not that happy or excited about meeting him, more tired of him.
You’re right, I always feel like I need to be responsible, more responsible than other people and what follows, more responsible than my own parents, as I always had to be since I was a child, because they couldn’t provide me a safe home. I had to worry about adult problems in everyday life. I always took part in their arguments, always. I keep forgetting I was a child and I often blame myself I didn’t “save” this “family” – I know how ridiculous this sounds but I’m serious – that’s what I’m thinking all my life. Anyway I try to understand it and stop doing that, but it’s a habit. My parents failed to create a family a home for me, and there’s nothing a small child could do to fix it. – I’m trying to believe it. I’m wondering.. is forgiving the key to peace of mind? If the truth is so inconvenient and we must face it, then we must see into our emotions like anger, resentment and many more and many worse, so in order to get rid of them and find peace we must in the end forgive those who hurt us. But forgiving means, as I read once, not judging and not hating someone, understanding him or her. I forgave my father, I don’t excuse what he did, on the contrary, I am and was very harsh and not tolerant about his behavior and still I forgave him. But should I try to forgive my mother? Should I try to understand and not judge her? How can I. It would mean that I would get to the point where I could say: if you’re not happy, it’s okay to find someone when your husband doesn’t give you happiness, it’s okay to follow your feelings because your happiness is the most important, it’s okay to not fight for your family because you just met someone nice and attractive and that’s all that counts. I know it sounds judgmental and perhaps there’s more to that, I know that. I know he drank, and hit her once, and did many hurtful things. But I don’t want to forgive it, I want them to admit to me that they didn’t care about me and failed this family, I don’t want to excuse and justify, and say it was okay for me as I pretended all my life.
Did you forgive you mother?why or why not.
February 11, 2018 at 5:59 am #191845AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
The recommendation I used to read in a lot of places, to forgive, used to greatly confuse me and hindered my healing for many years. This is what I learned: anger has a message in it, that a certain person and situation is dangerous to you. The person and situation need to be attended to and resolved. It is harmful to try to eliminate the anger without resolving the situation. For example, to eliminate anger for a particular person and continue the interactions with that person that hurt you. The interactions need to be terminated and then… the anger will resolve by itself because it would have served its purpose.
And this is what I did (answering your question in the last line): I ended all contact with my mother, will be having no contact with her for as long as I live. I was angry with her my whole life, repeatedly. Even after ending contact. But a few years of no contact and finally the anger is gone… except when I see how she is still hurting others who are in contact with her. But as far as her hurting me, situation resolved, anger served its purpose, and is gone.
anita
February 11, 2018 at 1:41 pm #191929AnonymousInactiveDear Anita,
Are you sure the situation has been resolved and the anger is gone? Are you sure this is really possible? I’m not doubting or being nosy, just wondering is this *really* how you feel.You’re right that the forgiving part may make everything more difficult and confusing. We should just let ourselves feel the emotions we are feeling, not fight it or forcing anything.
February 12, 2018 at 6:55 am #192009AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
You are doubting my statement that I no longer feel angry at my mother with whom I have no contact. Okay. Look for this very information in nature then: an animal who is aware of a predator around feels fear and runs away. After successfully running away, does it go back to the way it was before: feeding and listening still, relaxing when feeling safe, like before?
And when an animal in nature feels anger when another is threatening it and fights the other animal, survives the fight, the other animal is gone, safety is resumed, does the animal not return to the way it was before, or is it still fuming, angry at the threat now gone?
We are no different. We are animals.
anita
February 12, 2018 at 7:05 am #192011AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
An after thought: we are no different than other animals except that unlike other animals our parents are often the threat in our lives. That complicates things because we are stuck for years with a threat. We don’t run away and escape it and we don’t fight it and eliminate the threat. We stay with it and survive it best we can, but not well. Because the fear and the anger are not resolved for many years of living with the threat, these linger and remain, often for the rest of a person’s life.
My anger was resolved first, a few years after not having contact with her. Unfortunately, my fear is still ongoing, my anxiety, that is. Healing is still in progress, still happening in this regard, daily, this very morning as I type this to you.
anita
February 13, 2018 at 1:47 am #192161AnonymousInactiveDear Anita,
Not doubting. Okay maybe a bit, yes. But I can understand not feeling anger anymore and getting rid of it, completely. For the past year, since I discovered meditation and self improvement I have been working on it and I must say I changed a lot. I forgave my father and have no resentment to him, I also forgave and feel no anger towards my grandparents who wanted to take my (my father’s) house from me after his death and they didn’t hesitate from doing anything which made me sick at that time. They didn’t succeed, they can *only* live in this house till their death, I allowed them to and I live in other city now and I must admit I don’t even care now what they did or tried to do. I was angry and resentful at that time, I felt hurt but now I see it’s all in them. The anger, the greed, the evil, it was all in them, I just stood there. Do you know what I mean? They tried to hurt me, take away my home, used to call me and offend me (I was 17 then) but that didn’t have to do anything with me personally. They were just greedy and evil, wanted money and things, and I at that time allowed them to affect me and to bring me down. Now they still “hate” me and I pity them, because I’ve travelled a great journey since then, of understanding, forgiving, letting go of anger, and seeing things, and they’re 80 years old and they still are in the same place they’ve been all their lives. Also I’m the only one left after their son and they prefer hating me over actually seeing me. They have to lie when someone asks about their granddaughter because they’re ashamed. They are probably aware I would come visit them, I did many times but they used to make a scene, and offend me so I stopped. What’s the benefit of that in the long term. I just pity them, they’re miserable people. Anger hurts the person who feels it, I know it sounds obvious but I never want anger to destroy me or hurt me that way, I don’t want to hurt myself feeling anger towards other people. That’s why I started working on it. I don’t know if it’s helpful. I believe in getting rid of anger and it is possible. There are easier kinds of anger and there are much worse ones to fight.
February 13, 2018 at 4:36 am #192167AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
I like your honesty. I didn’t “get rid” of my anger, I wasn’t trying to get rid of it, it just so happened as a … side affect so to speak, of my healing process.
I think that I am able now to make a distinction between anger and the expression of anger. Anger is not a bad emotion. The expressions of anger are often abusive to another, even deadly. When feeling angry, I think: is there anything I need to do? If there is nothing, of course, it is wasteful to stew in anger.
I read your most recent post. Good thing you stopped visiting your grandparents.
anita
February 13, 2018 at 5:07 am #192173AnonymousInactiveDear Anita,
I understand. Just my thoughts, again different emotions mean different things to people. My mother taught me to be angry and to hate. Since I started to look more kindly at people I feel better. The only person I still feel angry at is her. And this is what you call “healing”, must be faced and something must be done.
I texted him random text yesterday, I don’t know why, I just did without thinking. He didn’t respond. Taking into account the last days’ “rollercoaster” I refrain myself from self harming, I started to control it, sometimes I even don’t feel like doing it, or when I do it I noticed I do it more like a habit than seeking a relief, that’s funny. I sometimes heard smokers do that, smoking or just holding a cigarette out of habit. I sometimes feel the same, I think it’s good. Sometimes I allow myself to do it, as you told me not to beat myself up – I tried to not beat myself up for NEEDING to do it, just allowed myself without feeling of guilt after that and the result is – It’s okay I sometimes am overwhelmed with emotions and need a relief so in the least harmful way I do it, I allow myself and I don’t regret or blame myself, and feel more at peace now, just not feeling like doing it over the last weeks. I know it’ll come back perhaps but there are small steps forward, right
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