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  • #92536
    Lily
    Participant

    I had a bad relationship (you can actually not really call it that, but I just use the word here because I don’t know a better word) with a man who lives at the same dormitory as I. From the start he didn’t accept when I said no. He often pressured me to have sex and he wouldn’t leave my room when I told him to. I know it is my own fault because I’m very bad at saying no. And it also must have been very confusing for him, because I actually was attracted to him. So yes, I wanted sex and sometimes even enjoyed it, but that doesn’t mean that he can come into my room whenever he wants and pressure me to have sex! It was like that: he came to my room and immediately started touching me and talking dirty. Then we would fight for an hour, me saying no, he touching me, lifting me up and carrying me to my bed and trying to take off my clothes. Most times I gave up, maybe because it was easier? I don’t even understand myself any more! After sex we would talk maybe for a few minutes, then he would leave. I asked him to do other things together, but he said that would come later… He also didn’t want anyone to know about this relationship, because he is a muslim and they are not allowed to have sex or relationships before marriage, so it would ruin his reputation.

    At the beginning I thought he actually had feelings for me. He even told me he loved me, but I told him I did not love him. I could not love him, because I couldn’t trust him! Firstly, he pressured me to have sex. Then he also told me he would never marry me, because I was either not his dreamgirl or he wanted to marry a woman from his own culture. I did not even think about marriage, he maybe brought up the subject because I told him repeatedly that I don’t want to have sex outside a real relationship. He confused me so much! Why would he say that he loves me, when he had said before that he would never marry me? But I guess my own behaviour was confusing as well! I tried to end the relationship many times, but I still let him come back into my room again and again. I thought we could talk about everything and I also felt guilty for rejecting him. I know how stupid I have been and that I should have been more consistent in my behaviour.

    One week ago I finally ended it. I sent him a message (I know I should have told him personally, but I tried that many times before and it didn’t work, he wouldn’t accept it and he wouldn’t leave my room until I told him the things he wanted to hear) and told him very directly that I wanted no contact with him. He sent me an angry message back and later knocked on my door. I did not open, so he sent me crazy messages about “who is that other man in your room and why are you not opening the door for me?”. I was worried about him so I went to his room to talk. He did not really want to talk and acted like nothing had happened, but he did not want to let me go and pushed me onto his bed and held me tight so I bit him! Now today he sent me a message that he got sick after that day and that I must have infected him with some desease…

    I know this is a mess! It must sound really crazy and I know that I have been really stupid to let this go on for so long. I feel really confused! Maybe I am completely crazy, maybe I am incapable of loving someone… I think we both made mistakes and I am sorry if I hurt his feelings! I just don’t know what happened! I need some help undestanding this and I need someone to talk to. That is the reason why I write here….

    #92552
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Lily:

    When you were a child, Lily, did your parent or parents respect your privacy, your space? Or did they enter your room, if you had one, at any time, without knocking, maybe even entered the bathroom while you were using it without asking. Maybe looking into your things at any time, not asking for permission. Maybe they treated you as if you were a thing, not a person with rights. Maybe what you wanted didn’t matter to them, was not a consideration. What Lily wanted didn’t matter…is any of it correct? These are examples, can you relate?

    Waiting for your answer. I very much want to have an exchange here with you and I think I may be able to help you some in examining and understanding what happened with this guy.

    anita

    #92555
    Eddy
    Participant

    Lily,
    He is using you for sex. Don’t be sorry for hurting his feelings. He doesn’t deserve you. He is treating you as though you are from Middle East. However, you shouldn’t say yes anymore either. Sex is a “benefit” of love, and love is something of a whole. Sex can come before love. But if it is to last, love needs to exist. You are normal. He is a selfish jerk. I would break this thing off and not talk to him anymore. I know it is easy for me to say what I just said.But sometimes you just need to say “enough” and shout him out. I know this is hard and he is making this toxic. This is not a relationship. Relationship is made up of at least two people. This “thing” between you and him is about him. Do things that make you smile. You deserve to be happy, to have someone bring flowers to you because that’s what he wants to do. Be shower by love and give it willingly. Be by each other’s side through hardships and happy times. “If you give him an inch, he’ll take a mile.” You don’t need him.
    This is what I would say to him “you want those 70 virgins that you were promised, maybe you need to start following your religion’s teaching. I will not be used for your pleasure. You don’t respect my choices, I don’t need you, and you don’t make me happy. It is a two way street. My life, learn to respect it. Get out of my life.” Aim high, he is way below you.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by Eddy.
    #92611
    Lily
    Participant

    Dear Eddy and Anita, thank you for reading my post and trying to help me!
    Anita:

    As a child, my relationship with my father was not very good. My parents are very religous and they were disappointed when I let them know that religion was not for me. They still made me go to church and church related things, which I didn’t like.
    My father is also not easy to get along with. He is very critical of everything and during childhood he also was critical of me. When my sister and I would fight, she always went to get my father and he always punished me and protected her. At least that is how I felt. I don’t know how accurate that memory is, I also wasn’t very nice to my sister!
    About the invasion of privacy: well my father kept the key for the bathroom, because he was worried about someone hurting themself and then not being able to help. My parents would not enter the bathroom intentionally when I was using it, but it still made me feel uneasy.

    Eddy:
    I know it is not a real relationship, he even gets angry when I use the word and calls me sick.
    The weird thing is, I realized very early on that this is not a healthy relationship but somehow I could not end it! Yesterday it happened again! In the morning he sent me that message that I had supposedly infected him and that I should get lost. He had written me all week about him being sick and about wanting my help and I had ignored it. But then I sent him a message telling him that I can’t help him and that he should ask a friend or doctor and leave me alone.
    So later he wrote me again about wanting to talk and that I got everything wrong. He also wanted my help for a project he has to do for his studies. So we texted for a while, me saying I don’t want to talk to him, he not accepting it. After I repeatedly told him that I don’t want him to come to my room he called me a slut and said that I was not a human and that I was nothing. Because a human would talk it out. Then he still kept on writing me. I should not have written him back!
    When he knocked at my door, I let him in. We talked. He insisted on lying down on my bed and me lying next to him. I tried to resist, but somehow I always do what he wants. He also made me hug him and kissed me even though I asked him not to. Then he told me he loved me, I was very confused and did not know what to say. It just made me feel guilty and uneasy. Later he said that he loved me as a friend and that he wants to see me happy. That he wants to even invite me to eat with him and his friends if they come visit him… I said that we could try to be friends, but I had my doubts. We have already tried being friends and it didn’t work! He still would touch me and try to have sex with me. And I just went along with it sometimes.
    Then we would fight. He says it’s me who starts the fights, but I feel that I have to constantly have to defend myself against him!
    So after a sleepless night I wrote another message to him that we can’t be friends and that I want no contact. This time I even blocked his facebook.
    I feel like a very terrible person right now. Maybe it’s me who is the abusive one, maybe I’m playing with his feelings… It seems like he really has feelings for me! But I just cannot trust him! Maybe he is right and I am sick! In any case, it’s better if this thing ends. I think I am not good for him and he is not good for me. Part of me misses him, part of me wants to be friends, but I think it can never work!

    #92618
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Lily:

    Your mixed feelings during these interactions with this man indicate that you are not seeing clearly what has been going on.

    People can tell you what they believe is going on but it is only when you have your emotions to back up an understanding of what is going on, then you KNOW what is going on. Your conflicting emotions so far are confusing you.

    You see different and conflicting evidence in front of you in your efforts to understand the reality of this “bad relationship.” On one hand sometimes he says: “I love you” and he is trying to be in your physical presence, to feel your body and he gets pleasure out of it. Sometimes you look in his eyes and you see kindness and sincerity.

    On the other hand he invades your privacy, calls you “sick” and other unkind words, blames you, does not spend time with you outside of sex… these are evidence pointing to a different conclusion than the first set of evidence.

    So what is it that is REALLY going on?

    I do believe good psychotherapy will be very, very helpful to you in doing just that: figuring out what is going on, getting an understanding, being able to realistically evaluate situations and interactions so to be able to function in a way that makes sense and which promotes your well being.

    If you would like to further discuss this, I am more than willing.

    I will leave you for now with this comment: I was very saddened from the moment I read your original post, yesterday. I could see the way I was in your description of your experiences with this person. I believe, and this is what makes me so sad, that you don’t know what it means to be loved… I didn’t know either… and therefore you can’t TELL if this person loves you or not. You don’t know how the real thing (love) looks like or feels.

    Hope to read from you more…

    anita

    #92803
    Lily
    Participant

    Dear anita,
    thank you again for your advice. It really helps me to just write down my thoughts, because I still feel confused.

    I know this was not love. Maybe he had feelings for me, but he did not treat me respectfully. And I don’t even know about my own feelings… The whole situation just was too much for me and I did not know how to handle it.

    I think for him it’s just completely normal that when a man wants sex, the woman has to give it to him. He could absolutely not understand that I did not feel comfortable with this. I tried to explain it to him many times, but it was of no use! He said he had regretted what he had done to me, but he also said it was not because of me, but because of the sins we had commited according to his religion. He also apologized, but later did the same again.

    On one hand, I feel sorry for him, because the rules of his religion and his culture are so strict, that it must be hard for him to live up to this ideal. It’s normal that he wants sex, but if he gets it before marriage, it’s a sin. So it must be kept a secret…

    But on the other hand, I hate the way he talks about women and that he can absolutely not see their point of view! He said that german women (I’m from Germany) sleep with everyone. He also seems to expect that his future wife is a virgin, when he himself is not. He even said that he does not want the “garbage” from another man! Well, I don’t know if he was serious about that, because he later said that it was not true and that he just wanted to know what I would say… On other occasions he said that he doesn’t mind if a woman has been with another man, as long as she is honest about it. I don’t know who he really is and what he really believes in? Why does he feel the need to constantly test me?

    For me this was the first “relationship” in my life. I’m not that young any more, but I am extremely shy, especially with men… Before this thing I was okay with the fact that I would likely stay alone my whole life… I wonder if I will ever experience a normal relationship in my life? Or if this experience is all I get? But for now, I think it’s better to stay alone. First I need to work on my problems. Even before all of this happened I wanted to go to psychotherapy. Last week I had a first talk with a therapist, but they can only offer me an appointment in 6 – 8 months. So I have to continue looking! I already made a list with therapists to call.

    Since I wrote this message to him, he hasn’t knocked on my door or contacted me any more. I hope that means it’s over now! But he also deleted his facebook. Maybe because I wrote that if he was to ever harass me again, I would file a complaint against him. I didn’t want to scare him off facebook, I just wanted him to leave me alone. Because I don’t think anything good will come out of this! And I can’t act like nothing happened and be friends with him now! But I don’t plan on doing anything against him.

    I worry a bit about him. And I’m sorry for my share in this failed “relationship”. All the time I think about the things I said to him. Once I even said that he had raped me… But I apologized for it later and said that it wasn’t rape… I constantly blamed him. The whole thing was just toxic and I wish I would have been able to end it sooner! But he also was so persistent! And I was confused. For some time I hoped to at least be friends with him. But when we tried to be friends, it didn’t work! We still did sexual things together, which made me feel uncomfortable, because this was not a real relationship and because he would always pressure me and everything would end up in a huge fight…

    I do hope that this over now! I wonder what will happen when I meet him accidently… After all, we live at the same place. I want to move out, but most likely it will take me a few months.

    Thank you if you took the time to read all of this…

    #92806
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Lily:

    I was there: in that kind of confusion that you describe, these thoughts and… these experiences, very much so, unfortunately. I know how confusing and distressing it is. But there is hope. This very morning I felt that kind of distress, this not-knowing, but then I reminded myself that I am still on the healing path, that I have come a long way, and that there is still a way to go and I will be walking this healing path for the rest of my days. The more clarity I get, the more there is to see. There is no ending point where I saw everything there is to see, to understand.

    I hope you get on this path, you are already there: in the first few lines you stated very CLEARLY where you are at and this is the beginning of the path, the first three lines. You are very honest and you are ready to proceed.

    You made good observations throughout your post. The guy you were involved with, he may very well be confused himself. I have no doubt that he is. He was taught things that are not true and those teachings are confusing him, just like you observed so well.

    The thing is to evaporate your own confusion, bit by bit, you have to focus on yourself, and not on understanding him. It is your brain in between your ears, not his brain, so your best bet out of the confusion of a lifetime, is in focusing on your brain.

    At this point, when you evaluate a man, focus on his behavior not on his motivations and feelings. He may be lying to you or confused himself, not a good source of information about what is going on. There is good inside every person, even in the hardest criminals… they have their moments of being loving as well.

    Focus on observable behavior, and so you keep it as simple as possible:when the guy pressures you to have sex with him, ignoring the discomfort you expressed, the ambivalence, then this is unloving behavior on his part. Loving behavior would be to invite you to talk while he sits in front of you, not trying to bed you. Inviting you to talk safely about your ambivalence, inviting your honest feelings. And only proceed sexually if, after long enough a time, you are no longer ambivalent.

    When he called a non virgin woman who is not married “garbage”- this is something he was taught from an early age. It is not his fault he was taught that, but it is not your fault either. The best and most you can do is tell him: this is not true. Or ask him to explain what he said. Again, have a conversation. Wrong thing to do (for your own well being) would be to have sex with him because.. it is not his fault the way he thinks.

    I like you searching for good psychotherapy. What do you think about what I wrote so far? I hope to read from you soon. Every time I do, I will reply and hope we can communicate again and again.

    anita

    #92832
    Lily
    Participant

    Dear anita,
    how did you get on that path to healing? Did you also try therapy? It gives me hope to hear that other people with similar issues can overcome them or at least learn how to deal better with them. I hope that will be possible for me too one day!

    I agree with you, I think as well that he is confused! It must be hard for him to live so far away from his family, in a country with a culture so different from his own. I also don’t think that he is a bad person. In his culture, this kind of behavior and his views are normal, I guess. But I still cannot let him treat me this way. You are right, for now I should focus more on myself. I surely have enough work to do with that alone!

    I don’t think it will be possible to talk to him again and I also am not sure if it’s a good idea! He was the one who wanted to talk to me and wanted to be friends, but I pushed him away again and again. I think after my final message this door is closed. It was not a very nice message.
    I wrote: Yesterday I said that we could be friends, but it’s not possible! I don’t want that! Not after everything that happened. I can’t act like it never happened. I don’t feel comfortable in your presence. You don’t respect my choices and you immediately offend me if I don’t do what you want… Please leave me alone! If you continue to harrass me, I will file a complaint against you. So don’t you ever knock on my door again! I’m blocking you on facebook now. I DON’T WANT ANY CONTACT WITH YOU!

    I must have really hurt him! He even deleted his facebook… I guess I should have at least told him in person… But in the past, it just didn’t work. Often when I tried to talk to him, he thought I wanted sex. Also he would not leave my room if I asked him to or would not let me leave his room. And I also can express myself better in writing than orally. Okay, maybe it was just the easier route for me. I guess it was also not fair to not give him a way to respond…

    But I was so scared that everything would start all over again! That we would end up having sex and fighting and hurting each other. The sexual attraction is just too strong, especially on his part. Even the day before, when we talked about being friends, he insisted on me lying down next to him in my bed and he wanted to touch me and rubbed himself against me. And I also do what he wants in the end most of the time. Because I also enjoy it when he hugs me and all that and I have trouble saying no. But at the same time I know that we are too different and I also can’t accept how he treats me not respectfully… And then I get scared that he just wants to use me and I start to fight and blame him…

    So I thought not staying in contact would be the best. So that it would end, so that I could move on and he too. Even though one part of me really wants to be friends. But I think I should leave it be now. I’m just thinking about telling him that he doesn’t have to be scared and that I won’t do anything against him… Still, I’m scared that this might start this toxic cycle again and so I guess I will let it be…

    Thank you again! It’s so kind of you to help me and others in this forum!

    Lily.

    #92838
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Lily:

    You are welcome. I agree that it is not a good idea to try to have a conversation, or any communication with him. The message you sent him was excellent. You are way too empathetic toward him, way too understanding… it was good if your empathy would be directed at you. It would be good if you got on your own side, taking your own well being to heart, as the most important thing.

    You asked about the healing process: a very important part of it is understanding that your job and responsibility is not in understanding others, their motives, their pain, their confusion… but understanding yourself and attending to your motive, your pain, your confusion.

    It is not your job to understand and fix that young man: it was his mother’s job, his father’s job, not yours. You can’t make up for what they did wrong. Your job is to take care of yourself.

    It doesn’t matter his state of mind, his motives.. the moment he is disrespectful toward you, your job is to stop that disrespect: not to take it and excuse it and focus on … poor him.. but to protect yourself from his disrespect.

    Your patents must not have been on your side. Your well being was not their priority. And so, understandably, you never learned to be on your own side, to make yourself first priority in your own life.

    You wrote in a previous post about your father: “my father kept the key for the bathroom, because he was worried about someone hurting themself and then not being able to help.”

    I was wondering what you meant… he was worried about you/ someone themselves in the bathroom? In what way?

    Hoping to keep the communication going. There is a lot here…

    anita

    #92972
    Lily
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I haven’t heard from him or seen him since I sent him this message, last friday. I hope this is the end of it and that I will finally be able to move on now. Still, I’m a bit worried about what will happen when I meet him by chance. Most likely he will blame it all on me and just tell himself that I’m crazy or a slut or whatever. My plan is to just say hello to him, but to not start any conversation. It’s really a problem that we live at the same place! Otherwise I would have been able to end it sooner, I’m sure.

    About the thing with the bathroom key: my father is a really pessimistic person. He seems to always expect the worst, is very critical of people and there are few things he likes. It can be difficult to live with him…

    What I meant was, that he took the key so that in case of an emergency he could help us. Like, if somebody accidently tripped and fell and broke their leg or something like that.

    I think I’m a bit like my father, I also worry a lot. But I’m more tolerant and openminded, I think. But he has become more understanding during the last years, too. At least towards me (he still has his very strong opinions). Maybe it’s because I’m more reasonable myself now.

    Thank you again, Lily.

    #92975
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Lily:

    I agree that saying Hello to this guy is all you should ever say to him, if that at all… Engaging in any conversation with him is futile because he already expressed his disrespect to you again and again. His disrespectful behavior toward you has to stop and you must not make it possible for him to disrespect you again by not talking to him, not letting him into your place, not meeting him on purpose, etc.

    And then, you must (I do use the word must because it is necessary, not optional, for your well being) recognize it when other people act disrespectfully toward you, and reject such behavior. Instead of engaging in empathetic feelings for the person who disrespects you, protect yourself and avoid that person.

    Your father took the bathroom key because people using the bathroom must have been in the habit of locking it. Maybe your father was in the habit, sometimes, of entering the bathroom without knocking first, or someone was in the habit of doing that… I am thinking that someone in the home where you grew up did not respect your privacy, and disrespectfully crossed your space…. and this is why you were so unclear when this guy, neighbor crossed your space. You didn’t know because you are so used to it…

    anita

    #93030
    Lily
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I was not sure anymore about my own memories of the past, so I asked my sister. She confirmed that my parents also took away the keys from our rooms and did not knock before entering. I don’t know if this has a meaning.

    The main problem is that I don’t have a lot confidence in myself. I’m not very happy with who I am and I don’t really trust my own judgement…

    Today I saw him at the bathroom but didn’t say anything to him. When I came back he hid behind my door! I just don’t know anymore! Then he told me he loved me and made me lie down next to him and kissed me. I repeatedly told him that he should leave. In the end he apologized, made me swear that I won’t report him and promised to leave me alone from now on. I don’t really believe in it. I guess I have to lock my door now if I want to use the bathroom!

    Lily

    #93031
    jock
    Participant

    report him, he’s out of control

    #93035
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    No I agree with jock, you need to report him, in fact you need to move!! This is a bad guy, if he loves you, he will honor your wishes and needs. I understand that sometimes it is hard to see outside of our own relationships and think that it is normal because you are used to it and then it becomes normal. But this is not a normal relationship, it is not okay for people to act in such a manner.

    You watch TV shows, take those people as examples of good relationship, which ones appear to be good or bad, what do people fight about in movies/ tv shows, what seems to be good indications of good relationships?

    So I say report this fella because he is over stepping his boundaries and that is creepy, you try doing that to anyone and they would be creeped out if you did that to anyone. Well a good way to understand your judgment is to take yourself out of the picture and pretend like you are watching a movie, step outside of yourself and think about how this movie should go on? Also try keeping a journal, it will help understand your own thoughts and maybe make better decisions for yourself. Good luck!

    #93036
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Lily:
    I asked about your father and the bathroom key because when I read your original post, it was very clear to me that you came out of your childhood with no understanding that you have the right for privacy, your own space, that you have the right to say NO, and LEAVE.

    Your parents, you write, used to come into your room, bathroom maybe, without knocking, having keys to your room and to the bathroom. This suggests to me that you and your sister locked your bathroom and rooms from the inside, so to have privacy, so to be able to have control over when someone enters the room or bathroom. It means to me that there was no respect in your home for your right for privacy, that your privacy was invaded again and again.

    And now, the adult that you are, understandably still doesn’t know she has the right to not let this guy in your room and if he is already there, you do not know you have the right to kick him out.

    You are also lonely and so in need for love (something else you did not have then), that you are so excited about this guy showing you any kind of attention, that you are willing to tolerate anything for any resemblance of love.

    Am I correct so far? Please think about all this and let me know… I do want to help you, I do hope I can help you help yourself…

    anita

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