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Between anorexia and bulimia

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  • #302353
    Edoardo
    Participant

    Peggy, while being in a caloric deficit is the basis of weight loss, there’s also a whole hormonal circus behind it that can rapidly increase or decrease our efforts. That’s why I’m trying keto and low carb, to enhance insulin sensitivity, prevent unnecessary hormone-driven fat storage and to get my body comfortable with the burning of fat, in case I’ll have to burn it off in the future.

    As for the caloric intake (and need), it varies tremendously from day to day, from food to food. Eating mostly whole things (or things based on natural ingredients which follow very rigid and particular rules of ripening, conservation and flavoring such as the cheees and meats of my region) it’s very difficult to get a good picture of their caloric value. Still it’s not a bad idea to get an approximation- but now I’m still recovering from the calorie counting obsession, which  pushed me in an extremely low cal regime full of sugars (from fruits mostly) and carbs of dubious effect. Unsurprisingly, I wasn’t as lean as I am Now, whilst following calorie counting and still a somewhat healthy diet.

    As for the fullness- once it’s decided that is meal time (by me or thanks to “encouraging”) my jaws go into snake mode, even if I’m not hungry. That’s also one of the reasons that fuel that craving for power on this whole thing.

    That’s another big one,and I’m sorry for not having mentioned it before, as my introspection is finding more and more fishes in the pond, I hope you are patient with me. Maybe That’s also one of things that fortified the misunderstanding between me and Anita.

    For exercise: I am a very active person and I try to move and walk as much as I can naturally. The horrible Italian public transport and my concerns about environmental impact also help in moving.

    The thought part is the trashy one: entropy reigns and among all the conflicting emotions, feelings, advice and thoughts my current line of behaviour is the only thing that I was able to create with some lucidity

     

    #302385
    Peggy
    Participant

    Hi Edoardo,

    I’m feeling slightly out of my depth here.  I’m drowning under all this technical stuff.

    When I talk about counting calories it needs to be in conjunction with the three main food groups – carbohydrates, proteins and vegetables/fruit with their many and varied vitamins and minerals, roughly a third of each on your plate.  Once you’ve got used to what normal portion sizes are, the calorie counting can stop.  Ideally, you should be in tune with what your body needs but you are not at that point.

    Can I just say that calorie counting did not push you into a low calorie regime.  You did that to yourself.  Had you been on top of a cliff when you had your passing out moment, you wouldn’t be here to tell the tale.

    Fat is good.  Fat as I understand it converts to energy which we burn off as fuel.  If we eat too little, we burn off our fat reserves, if we eat too much we store fat.

    Every “body” is different and if we want to be healthy, we must respect our bodily needs.  Your craving over food, power and the body beautiful is difficult for me to understand.  I would rather be healthy and happy even if I am carrying a few extra pounds than make myself miserable by denying my body its nutritional needs to achieve some kind of self induced image of external beauty.  Anita has a much better insight into anorexia than I have.

    I do know that somewhere down the line, if you want to beat anorexia, you have to make changes to your current thinking/perceptions.  Do you have the will and the power to do this?  Strange thing, I’m wanting to control you right now even though I know that you are the one who has to do all the work.  The frightening part for me in your post is that you think you have to get your body used to burning off fat in case it needs to do it at some point in the future.  It does it all the time!  Now!

    Peggy

     

    #302389
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Edoardo:

    I didn’t understand this part: “As for the fullness- once it’s decided that it is meal time.. my jaws go into snake mode, even if I’m not hungry”- what do you mean by “snake mode”?

    Regarding having been forced fed when you were very young- I did not mean that your parents intended to harm you when they forced fed you. But think of that: the baby, when forced fed, is not thinking: this is unpleasant but my parents are doing their best, not wanting me to die of starvation. The baby is not thinking but feeling great distress that is caused by the parent force feeding him.

    Regarding power and anorexia or anorexic tendencies, it is the desire to successfully create results in your life, and when you succeed in achieving the result that you want, you feel that intoxicating feeling. What I suggested  to you  is to think of other results that you are interested in, other than no- cravings, or no-fat on your body, something else. And then go about successfully achieve that other result.

    anita

    #302433
    Edoardo
    Participant

    Anita, snake mode is gulping down food just like a snake. With a very short time for munching it up.

    Peggy, as for the image, I do know that it’s distorted and doesn’t want the best for me, at least biologically speaking. As also said by Anita, these things do creep on you and stick around. Especially when you try to ignore them. You can try to face them, but the fear of them being right is so atrocious. They are somewhat protecting you from something, that maybe will never exist, but they are a defence. You don’t want the image to go bad. You want that body as skinny as it can be

     

    #302435
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Edoardo:

    Not to eat like a snake then, to not be snake mode, mindful is key. There are articles and books on Mindful Eating, for example “Eating Mindfully: How to End Mindless Eating and Enjoy a Balanced Relationship with Food”, paper back, you can order it online. I didn’t read it myself but I bet there are very helpful parts in it.

    anita

    #302493
    Edoardo
    Participant

    Thank you for the replies.

    For the mindful approach, I’m  trying to get it. Apparently my body is comfortable with fasting or at least very small portions of food, which is not what it was used to and certainly doesn’t help recovery. I must’ve to admit that I don’t know if it’s 100% body response or there’s a lot of background anorexic work.

    Anita, do you think that this all could also be sparked by needs for attention? I’m thinking about this too, what is your experience with that side of eating disorders?

     

    #302497
    Peggy
    Participant

    Hi Edoardo,

    If you truly want to overcome your eating disorder then you have to be committed to it 100%.

    Currently, all that you have absorbed through your life is sitting there like a dark cloud waiting to burst.  This is showing up in the fear that all the negative messages might be right.  These fears creep up on you and stick around waiting for the day when they are told to leave because they are no longer needed. You could try taking a Bach Flower Remedy which helps deal with “fear of known things”.  I think its Mimulus but you’ll need to check that out.  All I can say is that it’s worked for me in the past.

    How we eat is almost as important as what we eat.  Chewing food sufficiently gives our digestive system less work to do and also gives the body more time to send out signals that we are full.

    You might also like to investigate Kinesiology.  Now why would I think that you might study that one day?

    I hope you can find your way through this.

    Peggy

    #302515
    Edoardo
    Participant

    Peggy, also observing the evolution of my behaviour in these days is reinforcing that all of this is just a symptom- who apparently took also form of an habit.

    Can’t say that I control food intake yet, but at least knowing that it is not the main problem is somewhat helping, although we are far from a concrete solution

     

     

    #302517
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Edoardo:

    Regarding the first part of your recent post:  Mindful and Moderation (M&M, I suppose…)  is key. Reads like small portions is what works for you, so small portions it is- that is Moderation. Fasting is not moderation and it takes you to the extremes of fasting and binging.

    You asked me: “do you think that this all could be sparked by needs for attention? I’m thinking about this too, what is your experience with that side of eating disorders?”-

    – I don’t know what attention, specifically, you are referring to, or whose attention, so I will give you a list of the reasons or motivations of my disordered eating lifetime, and I hope that the answer of what you asked me is somewhere in the following list:

    1. As a baby/ toddler, I refused to eat because my mother, when pregnant, ate very little or binged and purged (she purged into my teen years), her pregnancy hardly showed. So my body was used to little food. I was born bridge and underweight and remained underweight (and under-developed) through high school. My mother significantly and even severely over fed me throughout my life (except when pregnant with me), so I figure, as a baby, she pushed a lot of food into me, more than a well fed pre-birth baby before would be able to take in willingly.

    2. Lifetime, I felt the pressure to eat more, to eat food before it spoils or as prevention of it being spoiled, just as my mother pressured me to do, and so a lifetime of overeating was established. To this very day I feel distress at the thought of any amount of food being spoiled in the frig.

    From early on, the emptiness in the stomach/the feeling of hunger became uncomfortable and the tendency was to overeat and feel very full, so to avoid the empty feeling.

    3. As a child I experienced a whole lot of misery living with my mother, so eating was a source of pleasure or distraction, and to this very day I am motivated to eat because it feels better, or distracts me from sadness, I suppose.

    Also, the only persistent form of love I received from my mother, was her offering me food. She also offered neighbors and strangers food and that made me very angry, especially because she worked hard physically to earn money (she was divorced and received no financial help from my father or from any any other source and complained a whole lot about how hard she worked and how people used her), so what I did, when sitting with neighbors and strangers who were eating her food, was I competed, I tried to eat more than they did. Somewhere in there was possessiveness of my mother’s love, I didn’t want others to get her love, I mean, food was the only love I received from her and could count on it.

    4. I was thin, very thin and then just thin my whole life until after 35. At 40 I realized that I was.. for the first time in my life, overweight. It was then that I started getting interested in losing weight for the first time. It was after 40 that I started counting calories-in and calories- out for the first time. As well as fasting (ten days straight was my record), binge eating and over-exercising.

    5. As I lost weight, I noticed that if I look at my body, not in the mirror, so I don’t see  my face, if I look at my arms, legs, etc., I look like a girl, a young person, a thin girl and that was very attractive to me, I bought young clothes, jeans with holes and such and just felt.. young.

    I felt a sense of pride for being thin, for having no visible fat on my body, it felt…  good. On the other hand, any appearance of fat or bloating, let’s say, made me feel great distress.

    – this is all I can think of. Regarding attention as in- I am sick and need mother’s attention or a doctor’s attention or the like, because I have this or that eating disorder- no, that was not a motivation.

    Let me know if what you asked has been answered somewhere in this post.

    anita

    #302531
    Edoardo
    Participant

    Anita, that was difficult to read. Very heart wrenching. I hope you are gaining back your power after all that stuff.

    The only parts in which I find similarities are the points 4 and 5. Yeah, being skinny gives me a somewhat prideful feel and the (of course distorted) confirmation of my young age and “beautiful” looks.

    For the attention part- I’ve always been somewhat of a loner, but I’m also a very extrovert person, with good leadership skills. Problem is that people tend to really annoy me, mostly because of various immature behaviors that I try to limit in my own life (the actual results of such efforts are fuzzy at best, and this whole situation can be a confirmation of this).

    So I tend to close myself off, or at least I try to be as selective as possible. I have few friends, and that also represents a big toll, as they are often very busy and- strangely for me- I do feel lonely sometimes.

    The fact that I wasn’t also able to have an intimate relationship could also be linked to this, after all, I never had all the affection that couples have. I do love my friends, as much as I can, but there are some thresholds that my mind (and theirs)  don’t even consider to pass. Maybe the lack of physical affection has to do something in all of this.

    So yeah, maybe the affection part is caused by not meeting my social and physical/emotional needs. Do you think that our obsession with thinness is also a search for emotional comfort?

    #302567
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Edoardo:

    You are an exceptional 19 year old, very intelligent and complex, therefore, not simple or easy for me to understand. For me to adequately understand you, it will take more back and forth communication with you over time. If you are interested in that, have patience and eventually I will understand enough.

    For that purpose, of adequately understanding you, I will ask three questions in this post, take your time answering the following, if you do choose to answer:

    1. “people tend to really annoy me, mostly because of various immature behaviors”- what are those behaviors and what are the thoughts you have about people you are annoyed with?

    2. “I’m also a very extrovert person, with good leadership skills”- where did you learn those leadership skills, what are they and in what context or contexts to you practice them?

    3. Do you feel superior to your peers/ other people/ everyone? If so, tell me about it.

    anita

     

     

    #302569
    Peggy
    Participant

    Hi Edoardo,

    I hope you don’t mind me putting forward my thoughts on your post to Anita.

    Everything is linked to everything else.  Mind, body, spirit and emotions are all linked.  What happens to you on one level also happens on the other three.  Most people have a strong need for physical contact even if it is just a hug and we all seek to be loved.

    You are an extrovert with leadership skills who needs a certain amount of personal space, alone time.  You are highly intelligent and this may mean that you “don’t suffer fools gladly”.  You have a few carefully chosen friends but occasionally, you feel lonely.

    All the things I have said in the above two paragraphs come under my heading of “normal”.

    You are young and beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder.  Skinny represents beauty in your mind’s eye.  Can I ask you a question (I don’t want to make an assumption on this),  “How underweight are you for someone of your height and build?”.  Would you say that you are seriously underweight or only slightly?  I’ve asked this tentatively as I know you may not wish to answer it.

    I don’t know if I’ve missed something here, but just because a previous relationship didn’t work out, doesn’t mean that the ideal person isn’t waiting for you somewhere close by with oodles of love and affection.  (N.B. anxiety can affect your sex drive.)

    Your obsession with thinness (anorexia) is a cry for help.  Your needs haven’t been met and you are screaming out for attention.  We’ve heard you!

    Peggy

    #302581
    Edoardo
    Participant

    I’ll try to be as synthetic as possible.

    1-aloofness, apathy (my special friend), boredom, shallowness, too much sensitivity/weakness, moodiness, complaints, constant talking and stupid gossip. The absence of passion, depth and engagement are particularly venomous, as I struggle with them constantly

    2-always had them. I am a very funny and extrovert person whenever I want to. I also easily track other people emotions and perceptions. And I’m kinda assertive

    3-superior no. Just different often. It’s like trying to connect a fossil with a Wi-Fi hotspot so to speak.

    Peggy, as for the body mass I’ve never been more than 63 kgs. I’m tall 1.87 meters. Based on the whole calculations, I should be around 70 kgs. That’s kind of hard for me, as I have an extremely light and flexible bone structure. Right now I’m weighing 56 kgs.

     

    Sex drive is also absent because of the already described proto traumas, the horrible state of the gay community and probably bodly difficulties.

    I don’t want to be dependent on someone. I think that romantic love It’s some sort of very selfish act

     

    #302597
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Edoardo:

    What do you mean by “it’s like trying to connect a fossil with a Wi-Fi hotspot”- are you the Wi-Fi and others the fossils?

    anita

     

    #302601
    Edoardo
    Participant

    I was just using a metaphor. Sometimes It’s really hard to connect. Or you just can’t

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 36 total)

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