Hi John

I thought you might be referring to that. 😊 You might have noticed, I have a tendency to explore the uncomfortable too. I’m trying to work on understanding when is the right time to share things. It is something that I struggle with.

I’m glad that some of the things that your mother taught you and needed to unlearn were minor for you.

I’m also conflicted on the idea of short term discomfort and the idea of a later benefit coming from uncomfortable ideas. I’ve experienced benefit many times from uncomfortable ideas, not at the time but many years later. If I don’t understand something, I tend to work on understanding it. I especially believe that outside of therapists, the best way to learn how to heal is to learn about what has helped other people to heal. It would probably be important to share uncomfortable things as sensitively as possible.

I received the advice of forgiving my mother in 2016 and it is really only this year that I finally achieved it. I didn’t understand the benefits at first or how it would even be possible.

I think that I went from embracing my suffering and being buried by it, to rejecting and avoiding my suffering. Neither way is healthy. Perhaps a more reasonable approach is to acknowledge it?

You have a good point in regards to different levels of suffering. I think that duration of suffering is important. How it affects life. There are common human experiences that involve profound suffering. Loss of loved ones for example. I believe that most people experience depression at some point in their lives. The question is, can they recover from it? How do they react to it?

I guess that common human experiences can cause tremendous suffering is my point in regards to everyone suffering. I don’t see trauma as anything special. Because tremendous suffering is a natural part of life.

I don’t necessarily see suffering as bad thing because of my therapy. It hurts yes, but it is temporary in nature and there are positive things that can come from understanding suffering and learning how to cope with it. I believe that these are important lessons.

I guess the truth is that I am more afraid of the pain than seeing it as a bad thing. It is human nature to be afraid of pain though. Perhaps I am afraid of being overwhelmed by it again?

Thank you for pointing out my avoidance, as well as for the kind words about my son! I really appreciate it.

Love, peace and blessings! ❤️🙏

Dear Peter:

Intrigued and finding that I have a little more time by the computer, I researched what kind of childhood can produce The Investigator, The Observer, aka Peter 😊

I read (from parts of The Wisdom of the Enneagram & elsewhere) that Type 5 individuals often (not always) grow up in environments that value knowledge and intellectual activities, having been encouraged to explore, read, and learn independently from a young age. They might have experienced situations where they felt a need to be self-sufficient or independent. This could be due to a lack of emotional support or the necessity to rely on themselves to solve problems.

Experiences that lead to feelings of inadequacy or insecurity can drive a Type 5’s desire to accumulate knowledge and competence. This could stem from being overlooked, misunderstood, or feeling unable to meet certain expectations. Type 5 children might have spent more time observing rather than actively participating in social interactions.

In some cases, becoming an observer and investigator might have been a coping mechanism to deal with chaotic or overwhelming environments. By retreating into their minds, Type 5 children could feel more in control and less vulnerable…

(While these factors can contribute to the development of a Type 5 personality, it’s important to remember that personality is shaped by a complex interplay of genetics, environment, and individual experiences. Each Type 5 individual’s childhood and development will have unique aspects that contribute to their personality).

Also, type 5s can have deep, meaningful relationships, but they often take time to develop. They value quality over quantity and tend to form close bonds with a few trusted individuals. They might struggle with expressing emotions openly, preferring to process feelings internally. This can sometimes make them appear less emotionally connected, but it doesn’t mean they don’t care deeply.

Building trust is crucial for Type 5s. They need to feel safe and understood in relationships. Once trust is established, they can be very loyal and supportive partners.

They value their independence and need for personal space, even in close relationships. This doesn’t mean they don’t value intimacy; they just need a balance between connection and solitude.

Next, I researched how to communicate online (as we do here) with Type 5: it says to Respect their Need for Space, to give them time to respond and avoid pressuring them for immediate replies, to be Clear and Concise, as they appreciate clear, logical communication, to Avoid overly emotional or vague messages and get to the point while providing relevant information.

Type 5s are intellectually curious and enjoy deep, meaningful conversations. Engage them in topics they are passionate about or interested in. Avoid Small Talk, as they might not be fond of superficial conversations. Focus on substantial topics that stimulate their intellect. Type 5s often take time to process information and formulate responses. Be patient and understanding if they need more time to reply thoughtfully. Acknowledge and respect their knowledge and insights. They appreciate being seen as competent and knowledgeable. Avoid Emotional Overwhelm: While it’s important to be honest and open, try not to overwhelm them with intense emotions. They might find it challenging to handle overly emotional exchanges.

And now, equipped with the above, I will try to respond to the first of your two posts here from yesterday honestly and mindfully:

Thank you for sharing your reflections, Peter. It readds like you’ve been on quite a journey over the past eight years, grappling with difficult questions about change, love, and the state of the world.

Your quest to find people who live authentically and contentedly is truly inspiring. It’s heartening to read about the individuals you’ve found who navigate the world with both contentment and compassion. Mr. Rogers is indeed a wonderful example of someone who managed to balance these qualities beautifully.

As a fellow investigator (!), I appreciate your insights on the energy required to move from observation to action. It’s fascinating how being seen and acknowledged can spark that much-needed energy to engage with life. Your awareness of this dynamic is a powerful tool for navigating your journey.

I resonate with your concerns about societal choices and the rapid integration of AI. These are complex and often troubling issues, and your thoughtful reflections highlight the importance of staying mindful of their implications for future generations.

The Zen quote and your thoughts on enlightenment beautifully illustrate the journey from simple understanding to profound realization. It’s a reminder that the most significant insights often bring us back to appreciating the simplicity and essence of life.

You wrote: “As a type 5 my communication style will always seem to be coming from the head, something I know can be off putting, but I like to think anyone taking the time to read or listen will see heart.”- yes, Peter, I do see your heart, and it’s a privilege.

Peter: “My answer to the question of – what love has to do with it – is everything and nothing, similar I think to what I read in a book by Krishnamurti just this year where he says, ‘Love can do nothing, but without it nothing can be done.’ (there’s a paradox for you)”-

-Love is not a tangible force that can directly do things in the physical world. It is not an agent that actively changes circumstances or solves problems. Love transcends practical utility. It is not about what love can accomplish in a measurable, concrete sense. Instead, love exists as a state of being. While love itself does not directly “do” things, without love, actions lack purpose, depth, and connection. Actions performed without love are or may be hollow or self-serving. The Paradox: while love itself does not perform tasks, it is indispensable for actions that are meaningful and transformative. It suggests that love is the underlying essence that enables all significant human activities.

Peter: “Love IS from which all things arise and return. (In the temporal playground we just mess it up by trying to possess and or be possessed by it”-

– love is an eternal, ever-present essence. It is not confined by time or space. Love is the source of creation and the ultimate destination. The Temporal Playground refers to the world of time and space where we live our daily lives. It is a metaphor for the impermanent, ever-changing aspects of existence. In our everyday lives, we often complicate or distort the pure essence of love through our actions and desires. When we try to own or control love, we turn it into something transactional or conditional. This can lead to jealousy, attachment, and a sense of ownership, which are contrary to the true, unconditional nature of love.

Conversely, allowing ourselves to be consumed by love in an unhealthy way can lead to dependency and losing our sense of self. This can result in obsessive or possessive behaviors that distort love’s true essence. Instead of experiencing love as the pure, unconditional force that it is, we entangle it with our desires, fears, and needs. The true nature of love is beyond possession and control. It is a fundamental, timeless essence.

Peter: “Love comes into being when the mind is naturally quiet, not made quiet, when it sees the false as false and the true as true. When the mind is quiet, then whatever happens is the action of love, it is not the action of knowledge. Knowledge is mere experience, and experience is not love. Experience cannot know love. – Krishnamurti”-

– When the mind is in a natural state of quiet, it can discern the true from the false. Krishnamurti distinguishes between actions driven by love and those driven by knowledge. When the mind is quiet, actions flow from a place of love, which is pure and unconditional. He views knowledge as the accumulation of experiences and information, which, while valuable, is not the same as love. Love is an innate quality that transcends mere intellectual understanding. Love exists beyond the realm of accumulated experiences and intellectual grasping. It is a state of being that cannot be fully understood or contained by the mind.

Love emerges from a state of inner stillness and clarity, when the mind is free from its usual chatter and distortions, allowing for a pure, unconditioned expression of this fundamental essence.

Peter: “Today (is this a change?) I realize that Love is the attribute of the ‘Eternal Now’ and so has no opposite. I don’t think there is a point to believe in ‘What Is’ so still say I do not believe in Love, only now I like to think I say that without disillusionment. most days 🙂”-

– It’s fascinating how your perspective has evolved over the years. The idea that love has no opposite in this context resonates. I also appreciate the humor in your question about change: it’s a clever way to highlight the ongoing nature of your exploration.

You are finding a sense of peace and acceptance in the inherent ambiguities and paradoxes of life, embracing the complexities of existence with equanimity and insight. I would like to understand this part better.

Peter: “A riddle: The observer is the observed and the observed the observer, the though is the thinker and the thinker the thought.”-
– the distinction between the observer (the one who perceives) and the observed (the object of perception) is illusory, as they are one and the same. It points to a non-dualistic view of reality, where subject and object are interconnected and interdependent. It highlights how our perceptions and thoughts shape our reality, a humbling realization that invites us to see beyond dualistic separations. I would like to think more in line with this principle.

Thank you for sharing your evolving thoughts, Peter. They add a rich layer to the conversation about love and existence, and I greatly appreciate it. I would like to respond to your second post of yesterday later.

anita