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anita.
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July 16, 2025 at 8:08 pm #447686
anita
ParticipantHi Peter:
I want to reply more thoroughly in the morning, but for now (after reading only a bit of what you wrote):
If the ache is a whisper… what is it trying to say to you?
What is it trying to say to me?
I think that my ache says: “I didn’t disappear completely and I am reappearing now, every day!”
And that’s.. a Life Worth Living (the title of my thread): a reappearing act.
That blotch on the canvas is taking on shape and bright colors.
The lyric—“That’s me in the corner, that’s me in the spotlight, losing my religion”, comes to mind.. 😊
Anita
July 17, 2025 at 12:03 pm #447718anita
ParticipantHi Peter:
You wrote, “My family would reject most of what I have written and not understood.”- They would—because they already did..?
That line felt so familiar. When those closest to us can’t witness our inner world, the ache folds in deeper.
Then you quietly offered: “(I sleep a little better and handle panic attacks a little better)”- I don’t remember you mentioning panic attacks before. And placing it in parentheses—it struck me. Maybe it’s something you want quietly known, not spotlighted. Still, I saw it. And I’m glad—truly—that sleep and those waves are just a little softer now.
“I have lived in that space waiting for someone to paint the brushstrokes…”- Me too.
“If only I could see myself…”- When a child isn’t seen for too long, darkness settles inside. Living gets put on pause until someone kind enough notices the child-in-the-dark and gently turns on the light. The child doesn’t even know where the switch is—it’s too dark to look.
Back on July 17, 2018—exactly seven years ago- you wrote: “For the longest time I was depressed about being depressed… Today I might say I have a relationship with depression. I no longer fear it.”-
I was diagnosed with major depression, prescribed with SSRIs for 16-17 years straight (1997-2013). What helped lift me was the slow practice of Expressing the Suppressed—the stream-of-consciousness journaling that flows in my threads (and here)- because so much stayed buried for so long.
Surviving in the dark for so many, many years means suppressing not just feeling, but self. Survival is not thriving. Thriving is Expressing.
I just noticed that you submitted a new post in my own thread: “The illusion isn’t that the painting isn’t real but that it forgets it’s on the canvas.”- Brilliant, Peter. Truly. Your stream flows with depth, and your brilliance lives in the current.
So I have a question—maybe it’s naïve, or child-like: If emotions are the brushstrokes, and the canvas is what holds it all—always there— Is the canvas like a steady, unchanging parent? A presence that doesn’t leave? A super-parent? A God?
Oh.. and your newer post:… our descriptions point to the experience, but aren’t the experience itself—like a painting of a sunset versus standing in it.
A part of us is beyond thought. We remember the wholeness, the stillness.. even through words that can’t quite carry it…
The stillness we craved for, for too long… A safe place where we can rest..?
Anita 🤍
July 17, 2025 at 12:50 pm #447720Alessa
ParticipantHi Everyone
It seems to me Peter that you always have a lot of interesting things to say. It is a shame that your family don’t get it. ❤️
You has so many interested things to say as well Anita! ❤️
What a fascinating conversation, great points on all sides. I’ve been thinking about it, considering my perspective. It reminded me of this.
In Buddhism, there are elements of consciousness. Sense conciousness (senses), mind consciousness (thoughts), store consciousness (memories) and mana. Mana is particularly interesting, connected with the store consciousness where a sense of self resides.
We aren’t born with a sense of self, as initially we view ourselves as intertwined with our caregivers, but we quickly develop one.
Raising a toddler is fascinating to me. My son was playing and caused a bit of mess, he tried to clean up part one of it but left the rest. It was cute and funny to me that he tried in this half hearted way. But he was ashamed of it and immediately tried to clean the rest up when I came across it.
It strikes me as difficult being a child where every action is commented on. It is the nature of being a child learning rules that they are not initially privy to. Social rules that people need to succeed in this world.
But yes, the sense of self comes with object impermanence. We understand when we are alone. We understand when we have upset someone. We learn to use our bodies. We learn about the world around us.
Interesting that a sense of self, is defined so much by other people. And the function itself is to facilitate learning, empathy and social connection. It seems like being alone is a story that we tell ourselves so we can better understand the differences in others. As if we tell ourselves that we are one, we don’t truly understand their experience.
Other people are the same as me is an early phase of development and of course, not a true one. Connecting with others is about honouring needs and holding space for each other. Allowing them to be without imposing.
It is challenging when the entire purpose of us as humans – connection – is met with rejection as children. It is a sense of failure that permeates our sense of identity.
July 17, 2025 at 1:00 pm #447721Peter
ParticipantHi Anita
“If emotions are the brushstrokes, and the canvas is what holds it all—always there – Is the canvas like a steady, unchanging parent? A presence that doesn’t leave? A super-parent? A God?”I think the canvas can feel like a steady, unchanging parent or even like G_d but only when we’re viewing it through the lens of relationship. The temptation here might be to start thinking of the transcendent as a noun. In non-duality, though, the canvas isn’t other (or a noun). It’s not separate from the painting, or from us. It’s not watching over us; it is us, just as much as the brushstrokes are. In that sense, we are both being held and are the holder… that never leaves…
It’s hard to talk about as any attempt to describe it is already a step away from it…
Camus came to mind as the question implied that a leap to a “higher” meaning might be necessary. In The Myth of Sisyphus, Camus defines the absurd as the tension between our deep longing for meaning and the universe’s silence. His concept of “the leap” is the move toward religion or metaphysics to resolve that tension in order to escape the absurd by positing a higher order.
Camus refuses the leap. He insists on staying with the absurd, without appeal to transcendence. Yet in doing so, he’s still holding the tension, he’s not denying the longing, just refusing to resolve it or fix it. I might add a refusal to articulate it. In that way, even his refusal becomes a kind of reverence. It points beyond itself, not by escaping the absurd, escaping the tension, but by fully inhabiting it. Not a leap as we general understand the word leap yet could that be a experience of transcendence? Maybe…
July 17, 2025 at 1:13 pm #447722anita
ParticipantHi Peter:
“Camus defines the absurd as the tension between our deep longing for meaning and the universe’s silence… He insists on staying with the absurd… refusing to resolve it or fix it… refusing to resolve it or fix (the tension).”-
As in to accept the things we cannot change (the tension) and the courage to change the things we can (the resistance ?
July 17, 2025 at 1:13 pm #447723Peter
Participantcorrection – I might add a refusal to articulate it away, fix it with words.
July 17, 2025 at 1:18 pm #447724anita
ParticipantDouble posting above…
July 17, 2025 at 1:25 pm #447726anita
ParticipantDear Alessa:
It’s so good to see you back—welcome! You’ve been missed this past week ❤️
Your post was thoughtful and full of insight. I really liked how you connected your son’s moment—trying to clean up the mess—to bigger ideas about how we grow and learn. It’s true: being a child means constantly learning rules we don’t know yet, and being watched while we figure things out. That can be hard.
What you said about the sense of self forming through other people really stood out to me. It’s sad but true—when we’re rejected as children, it doesn’t just hurt, it shapes how we see ourselves. That feeling of failure can sink deep.
I also loved this line: “Being alone is a story we tell ourselves so we can better understand others.” That’s such a gentle way to look at loneliness—not as something broken, but as something that helps us grow and connect.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. You brought a lot of warmth and wisdom to the conversation. I hope you keep posting—your voice adds something special here.
With care, Anita 🤍
July 17, 2025 at 1:27 pm #447727Peter
ParticipantHi Anita
I think I see where you’re coming from, but I meant something a little different. The reference to the Serenity Prayer “accept the things we cannot change, courage to change the things we can” frames the tension as something to either endure or overcome. I don’t feel its so much about changing or accepting, but about holding and being with the tension itself without trying to resolve it, or require a leap. Not as a problem to fix, but as a doorway to something deeper.
Camus refusing the leap, not because he’s passive, but because he’s choosing to stay with the rawness of the experience. That holding becomes a kind of clarity, even if it doesn’t offer answers. So maybe it’s less about resistance or surrender, and more about presence that allows us to soften our stories.
July 17, 2025 at 1:34 pm #447728Peter
ParticipantJust a note: the serenity prayer is always good advice. One can hold the tension and take that advice but the the tension remains as it was and is.
July 17, 2025 at 1:44 pm #447730anita
ParticipantPeter: thank you! I will need a refreshed brain to process best I can- Fri morning (Thursday afternoon here, almost dreadfully hot as yesterday ☀️🔥
Anita
July 17, 2025 at 2:38 pm #447741Peter
ParticipantI think I may have confused things and given the impression that the non-dual (transcendent) experience somehow resolves things. That it fixes the messiness of life. But that’s not quite it.
For me, those moments of non-dual awareness are rare, often fleeting, sometimes just a breath. They don’t erase the complexity, the frustration, the beauty, or the pain of the world. The world, as I, remains what it is: wondrous, horrific, lonely, alive…. Nothing “changes”, and yet, something does.
In those moments, I felt a deep sense of connection, like touching the web of life itself. And their is a profound compassion that arises not just for others, but for everything, including myself. And yes, I can’t stop myself from trying to name it or hold onto it so it slips away. Still a something lingers.
What lingers isn’t a solution, but a softening. My stories become lighter. The grip of identity, judgment, and striving loosens just a little. I’m still the same world, but I’m not carrying it quite the same way.
So it’s not about escaping or resolving… but remembering. And that remembering, even if brief, changes how I move through the world.
July 17, 2025 at 2:43 pm #447742anita
ParticipantThank you for caring to explain further, Peter! I appreciate your efforts and I will try to understand better tomorrow.
Anita
July 18, 2025 at 10:17 am #447768Peter
ParticipantLast night I reflected on being surprised that Camus came to mind as I tried to engage in the questions asked and that the confusion I felt was similar to what I feel when engaged in conversation with family members on the topic of God.
My family would be troubled with the association of the word ‘absurd’ and the word God. Than it occurred to me that in conversation we were using the word God differently. My family relates to a personal God while I relate to a non-personal G_d. With that in mind I would rewrite what I posted about Camus:
Albert Camus famously rejected the “leap” the turn to a personal God or transcendent meaning as a response to the absurd. For Camus, the absurd arises from the tension between our deep longing for meaning and the universe’s indifferent silence. To leap toward a personal God, one who explains, redeems, or consoles, is to escape this tension. Camus called this philosophical suicide: a refusal to face the absurd honestly.
This notion of a personal God was the one I was the taught which I internalized as God as a Father who would make everything better, all I had to do was trust, follow the rules.. and above all avoid a feeling that such a God could only be a puppet master at best, a monster at worse. In the end I was not able to hold that tension or the mental gymnastics to justify such a relationship. Here I enter my ‘dark night’ of the soul.
Rejecting the personal God as Camus suggests, I feel clears a space for a different kind of relationship. Not a being who ‘watches’ over us but Being itself. Not a voice that answers, but a presence that holds. This is the realm of the non-personal G_d, the canvas beneath the painting, the silence beneath the story, the ground of being that doesn’t resolve the absurd but embraces it.
In this light, Camus’s refusal becomes a kind of spiritual integrity. He doesn’t leap, but he also doesn’t turn away. He stays with the tension. And in doing so, he points, perhaps unknowingly, toward a sacredness that doesn’t require belief, only presence.
Here the words of a ‘we must lose God to find G_d’ come to mind.
In this non-dual space, theologies of law and language begin to fade. What rises in their place is compassion, not as a commandment, but as a natural expression of being. In that compassion, “law” is not imposed but embodied. It is not followed out of fear or duty but lived from a place of deep remembering.
The absurd remains. This kind of G_d doesn’t answer the cry for meaning with a tidy explanation. Instead, it holds the questions not as a problem to be solved, but as a mystery to be lived. The world is still what it is: beautiful, brutal, unresolved. But in refusing to escape it, we may find ourselves more deeply in it. And in that, something softens. Not because the world has changed, but because we have.
Paradoxically, the refusal to leap has helped me see that the path of the leap is also valid. What I once saw as escape, I now recognize as another form of devotion. All wisdom traditions whether they speak of a personal God, an impersonal ground, or no God at all are trying to name the unnameable, to touch the mystery, and that is so very human.
Each path, in its own way, invites us to hold the tension.
Each path, in its own way, returns to the canvas – the shore beyond.
Every path, in its own way, pathless.
Gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā
Into the gone, into the gone, into the gone beyond, into the gone completely beyond the other shore, awaken.
Into the gone, into the gone, into the gone beyond, into the gone completely beyond the other shore, return.July 18, 2025 at 1:37 pm #447772anita
ParticipantHi Peter:
I think I get it this time… Ms. Anita the Fixer and Analyzer might need to set down her tools for a moment. That instinct to fix feels out of place here, with someone who no longer seeks solutions or analyses.
I read through your reflections with quiet attention this cooler afternoon —they feel like waves moving across something deeper, something steady. There’s a spaciousness in your words that made me slow down. What came through most clearly wasn’t just the ideas themselves, but a tenderness in how you held them.
You described moments of non-dual awareness so beautifully—fleeting, yes, but also softening. That kind of clarity, not the kind that fixes anything, but the kind that loosens the grip, is precious. I felt it when you spoke of the canvas beneath the painting: not separate from the brushstrokes, but part of them. Not watching from above—but being them.
The sacred, as you’re living it, doesn’t need a name. It isn’t “other.” It’s the quiet presence that holds the absurd, the longing, the contradictions—not to erase them, but to embrace them. Sacred not because it fixes life, but because it stays with us while life is happening. Like being itself.
And your compassion—it seems to arise not from effort, not from rule or role, but as a natural response when the veil of separation thins. A warmth that doesn’t demand anything, doesn’t judge, doesn’t try to teach—it simply rests beside what is.
Your words reminded me that we don’t always need to leap to meaning. Sometimes we just need to remember the ground beneath our feet. And maybe that remembering is enough for the day. Enough for the next breath.
I’m grateful for your presence here—for staying with the mystery, for speaking even when the words dissolve. You don’t need to explain yourself to be understood. You already are.
And maybe that’s what I’m learning, too. That sometimes, Ms. Anita the Fixer and Analyzer needs to set down her tools—not because there’s nothing left to fix, but because there’s finally space to rest. You have traded the brush for the canvas, and I think the most caring thing I can do is sit beside you in the stillness, quietly.
With warmth, Anita 🤍
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