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September 17, 2018 at 9:20 pm #226119LluviaParticipant
I am a 21 year old girl and up until 6 months ago, I had no question about my sexuality and my desire to be in a relationship with a male.
Six months ago, I believe my anxiety about whether I am lesbian or bisexual was sparked by a couple of dreams that I had that were of a sexual nature and involved a woman. I began to look back in history and was disturbed to find some instances from my past and adolescense that could suggest that I was a lesbian, while at the same time saw my sexual preference since I was a little girl as being interested in boys.
From a young age I had access to the internet and became what I would consider addicted to pornography. Amongst watching a variety of videos including male-female videos, and male-male videos I also watched female-female videos and enjoyed it quite a bit. If I am being honest, at the time of my obsession with pornography at age 13, I never really thought much of the fact that I was watching lesbian pornography, I just thought it was hot, in the same way I thought watching gay porn was hot. I never once thought that it meant much other than it helped me reach the goal of climax. In my real life, I have always pursued boys, and have always become infatuated with boys, and to this day I find myself day dreaming about what it would be like to date certain boys. I remember my first crush, in the third grade being a boy, and even before that, can vaguely remember having kissed a boy underneath a desk at school in kindergarten. I have always been naturally driven toward being with a male. I’ve always dreamed about my wedding and have pictured a man waiting for me at the alter, not a woman.
Although, in high school there was a girl who had come out as a lesbian, and she had the hots for me. I thought she was a really cool girl, we would give each other suggestions on movies and music and developed a friendship based off of that. And frankly I liked the attention she was giving me. Now, I never really thought of her in a romantic/intimate way, but coming from a mother who at one point found herself in a relationship with a woman despite being with men her whole life (and who has been with men ever since her experience with this woman) I felt comfortable enough to explore my sexuality with this girl who liked me. We hung out a few times, and on one occassion made out. There was nothing about that interaction that rang any alarms for me that said “Oh, so this is what it’s supposed to feel like” or “This is what feels right to me.” That experience ended, and well, I carried on with my high school life, wanting boys and dating boys. I recall being so excited to have sex for the first time with one of my high school boyfriends, and in retrospect believe that if I were a lesbian, I wouldn’t have felt the way I did about wanting to be intimate with a boy like that. Fast forward to my freshman year of college and the same girl who had the hots for me went off to the same school as me. We connected with a few other girls who we went to high school with and all started hanging out since we were in a different city and hadn’t met any new friends. Well, the relationship developed and she ended up asking me to be her girlfriend, and again, being as open as I learned to be from my mother to explore my sexuality, I said yes. I was in college, I wanted to experiment, after all, isn’t that what everyone does in college? We’ve all heard it. The “relationship” lasted a week before I broke it off because I just wasn’t feeling it. I felt that she wanted a more intimate and emotional connection with me while all I really wanted was to figure myself out and see if I could get down with being with other women. Something felt like it was missing, and so I ended it. Shortly after that experience I found myself intensely infatuated with a boy I had known since high school, and I pursued a relationship with him. I never really thought much about what it would be like to be with a woman since then, until the anxiety and paranoia was sparked due to what I believe were those dreams.
The anxiety started a year and a half into my relationship with a man who I had fallen head over heels for. Again, I found myself excited to be intimate with this guy and have a hard time understanding why the anxiety of whether I am lesbian or bisexual has manifested and become as big as it is, considering every time I would engage in any kind of sexual activity (before the anxiety became a thing) with my boyfriend I enjoyed it very much.
Ultimately though, the uncertainty and anxiety about my sexuality began to affect my relationship with my boyfriend, getting to the point that sometimes when we would engage sexually I had an inner critic inside of my head picking apart the sexual intimacy and questioning whether I actually felt attracted, whether it actually felt right, or whether I was even aroused, which in turn made me even more paranoid and unable to be present with my partner in an otherwise beautiful moment. I was very open with my partner about my uncertainty about my sexuality when the fear was sparked, and he was very supportive and understanding, knowing very well that up until this anxiety was sparked, I was absolutely sexually attracted to him.
A little side note on my relationship with this man, there was always been a bit of uncertainty coming from my end, fear about whether the relationship would work out, and if it was meant to be. I always found myself looking for reasons why it wouldn’t work out, not because I didn’t want it to but just because I was scared that it wouldn’t. One of my theories for this sudden anxiety over my sexuality is that perhaps my general anxiety about the relationship manifested into this whole thing about me potentially being lesbian or bisexual when I know very well that I have always liked GUYS!!!
Well, fast forward to now, this man and I are no longer in a relationship due to my many relationship issues. But the anxiety and paranoia still bothers me on a daily basis.
I think that because this is something I have been so negatively obsessed over for the past 6 months, I’ve literally trained my mind to think in this mental loop of having paranoid thoughts about whether or not I am lesbian/bisexual. This mental loop has become so strong now and I feel like it’s controlling my life and keeping me from being the real version of myself. I can’t be around girls without feeling slightly uncomfortable and paranoid, and just thinking about the subject makes me feel extremely negative and unhappy inside.
Deep down I know that I love men, I want to marry a man, and I love being sexually intimate with men, but it seems as though as soon as this anxious mental loop about my sexuality arises, all truth and evidence proving that I am in fact straight, flies out the window.
Help??
September 18, 2018 at 3:29 am #226143coconutParticipantHi.
From what I see you already know that you are not bisexual. If you were one, then you would be capable to feel with a girl what you feel with a man and that doesn’t happen. You were just curious and you indirectly had the permission of your mother who also experienced with a girl. You had some dreams with a girl and this caused you worry and anxiety, and then your brain tried to make sense to your anxiety so you remembered those experiences from the past and you took it as a sign that you may be bisexual.
You are also aware that because of your fear of getting hurt or of the relationship with that man not working out, you kind of made yourself unconsciously feel uncertainty about your sexuality, so you can avoid getting hurt and being left.
When you have those thoughts about whether or not you are bisexual, accept those thoughts and don’t panic automatically. If you change your thoughts from “What if I am bisexual??” (worry) to “So what if I am bisexual?” it will help. If you ask yourself the second question your mind will automatically try to prove you that you are NOT… and then the next thought will be something like “I am not a bisexual.” You already know that. If you have some thoughts that doesn’t mean they are true, that doesn’t mean you have to believe them. You pay too much attention to your thoughts. As long as your thoughts only make you feel bad/anxious/worried for no reason and without nothing you can do about that practically, it means they are not useful and that you can stop paying that much attention to them.
September 18, 2018 at 7:20 am #226159AnonymousGuestDear Lluvia:
I agree with your theory that your “general anxiety .. manifested into this whole thing about (you) potentially being lesbian or bisexual” and that you are in this strong mental loop of fearful thoughts, so strong that it is controlling your life.
This mental loop is not much different in its nature from the mental loops involved in eating disorders, like anorexia, which involves fearful thoughts about gaining weight and it does become so strong that it controls the anorexic’s life. Once an enjoyable thing, eating, becomes a torture.
The solution is a process of healing and managing anxiety. Practically, no longer watching pornography is probably a very good idea. What about psychotherapy?
anita
September 18, 2018 at 3:58 pm #226229LluviaParticipantThis is something that consumes me on a daily basis. I try my best to overcome these mental loops of anxiety by staying present and trying my best to detach from these fearful thoughts but I will find myself in moments of panic whenever random thoughts pertaining to the whole thing arise out of the blue, and especially when there is external stimuli such as an actress I see on T.V who I know in real life is a lesbian, or for example whenever I just even hear the word come up. I begin to panic thinking that these are signs from the universe trying to tell me something and by this point the mental loop has flooded my reality and I am in a conversation with myself about whether I am or not.
I know that ultimately I am the one who is in control, and that it’s my job to un-train this mental loop, by doing things such as coconut suggested I do, and I have read many books about the power of the mind and our thoughts and it all resonates so well with me and I recognize it as true and find myself feeling hopeful that I can get back to the place that I was before this anxiety was sparked, but I feel like it’s so strong after six months of programming that I end up feeding into these fearful thoughts eventually and fall right back in.
I have a hard time detaching from any of the thoughts because at this point they are so emotionally affirmed that I don’t even think about being anxious, my body just does the job on it’s own.
I am having a difficult time understanding why I can’t just change this…
September 18, 2018 at 4:07 pm #226233LluviaParticipantIt’s getting to the point to where I just want to resign and accept being a lesbian because every single day these thoughts are on repeat and cause me so much turmoil inside that it makes me just want to die.
But I can’t do that, I can’t just come out as a lesbian because I’m not. I’ve tried on many occasions to picture myself being with a woman, dating a woman, and even marrying a woman and every time I scrunch my face up because I don’t like the idea of it. But then my mind questions that, “am I just in denial?”
I’ve given so much power to my mind, and I have heard that what you give energy to will eventually grow and manifest into your life. I feel like I am getting to a point of no return where I won’t be able to change my mind because of how obsessively concerned I’ve been about this and how emotionally attached I’ve become.
September 18, 2018 at 9:40 pm #226241HgraceParticipantHi Lluvia,
I’m sorry that you’re struggling at the moment! I’m a therapist who specializes in treating OCD and anxiety disorders. This is an incredibly common OCD theme, so you’re not alone and it’s not your fault. Good job of stepping back and noticing the pattern.
The problem here is that OCD latches onto topics that don’t have objective answers and it tells you that you need certainty “or else.” Every time you try to “figure it out” or find reassurance, you’re doing a compulsion that fuels the cycle. Reassurance ( from internet, others, or yourself), checking your feelings, analyzing arousal, reviewing your memory… these things might give you temporary relief until OCD pops up with another piece of scary evidence. My guess is that that’s how you ended up on this forum (i.e. this is actually a compulsion happening right now)!
The good news is that this is incredibly treatable. The tough part is that it doesn’t involve finding the answer… it involves living with uncertainty. OCD is a paradox so all of the “solutions” are actually the problem.
Anyway, if you decide to do treatment, it’s really important to find a therapist who is trained in ERP (the evidence-based therapy for OCD). Other things that help for general anxiety can make OCD worse, so it’s important to find someone who know this stuff. Your best bet will be this page on the IOCDF website. Read then click on the therapist directory. Type in your zip code to see OCD therapists in your area and make sure they specifically list ERP https://iocdf.org/about-ocd/treatment/how-to-find-the-right-therapist/
Hang in there! Everything is a process and this too shall pass.
September 19, 2018 at 4:17 am #226295AnonymousGuestDear Lluvia:
There is a term used for your specific trouble and I bet you are familiar with is: HOCD, or Homosexual Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Lots online about that, people stuck in that particular loop.
The fear is nesting in that loop in your brain. So “out of the blue” fear spikes and automatically, at this point, it goes to its nest: I will call it the HOCD nest.
If you did come out as a lesbian, you at best will take away from your fear this particular nest. But fear will look for another nest. And so it is the fear that you will need to weaken and then endure. Enduring it is key, meaning you suffer without allowing it to nest.
There is nothing more easier-said-than-done than what I just suggested.
Would you like to share about the origin of your fear, that is, the origin of this ongoing fear aka anxiety?
anita
September 26, 2018 at 11:45 am #227661LluviaParticipantAnita,
I guess I can say that the sexual dreams I had about women were not quite the reason for this anxiety that was sparked about my sexuality. The dreams simply triggered a deep wound full of shame and confusion from childhood.
I have worked to forgive myself for the many things I did when I was younger, but still I carry the shame and fear and guilt and confusion for why I did these things. When I was 12-13 years old I sexually abused my sister who at the time was 2-3 years old.
Having done this to my little sister has been the greatest source of self hate and disgust and I think is the main reason for the depression / anxiety that I have experienced since then.
At the time of these events, becoming addicted to pornography, masturbating constantly, and engaging in those acts with my sister, my life at home was beginning to unravel and my mother and step father were getting divorced. I don’t justify my actions, but I think they were driven by the fact that I felt so alone, isolated, misunderstood and in need of some sort of love and connection.
I remember from a young age being very sexually aware, knowing what sex was and that it was a “taboo” thing. I was sexually abused at the age of 4 years old by my uncle who at the time was 15-16. He had me lay in bed with him and made me use my hand to make him reach climax. I remember the event pretty clearly, it is one of my first childhood memories, and remember knowing that what was happening was “wrong”.
At the age of about 7-8 I began to pleasure myself by humping anything I could get my hands on, I would often use my favorite stuffed animal, named Chelsea, I don’t know whether or not the fact that I used to hump my favorite stuffed animal who was a “girl” has anything to say about my sexual interests. This is something that I am just now considering.
That phase of trying to please myself sexually in any way I could, faded away as I grew up. I started to have crushes on boys in the 2nd grade, and 3rd grade, even considered myself as being in love in the 4th grade. I always showed romantic interest and having “crushes” on boys. My past proves I have always been inclined toward being with boys, that’s just what felt natural to me. Still feels natural, I guess I’m just extremely paranoid now that I’m over analyzing it now and any interest that I show in men now doesn’t even feel authentic.
Anyways, my little sister came along, and I was just so excited to have a little baby in the family. But I think I soon realized that it meant there would be less attention for me, and more focus on her. At this time my sexual drive started to kick in, I was 12-13 and I got my hands on a smart device and became addicted to pornography. Amongst watching straight, and gay porn, I also watched lesbian porn, which I know is actually quite common for girls to watch because of how sensual and intimate, and frankly at my age at the time, how taboo it is.
I had no parental supervision whatsoever so I spent a lot of my day just looking at porn and getting off to it. It was around this time that I abused my sister, she was 2-3 years old. I knew instantly that what I had done was absolutely wrong and I felt ashamed.
I carried that weight with me for a couple of years before I found the courage to share with somebody that I had done this, it was really weighing down on my life, I became depressed. I expressed this to my stepfather, and he was understanding and forgiving of me. I felt a sense of relief. At this point I was going into my freshman year of high school and the shame and pain of that experience fell away to the back of my mind because I was busy being a teenage girl, doing high school things. It didn’t bother me much after I told my stepfather.
It was at this time that the girl who had come out as a lesbian was showing interest in me, and as I mentioned in the early posts, I was aware my mom had been with a woman at one point in her life, she was very open with me about her life so I felt free enough to explore my sexuality with this girl. We kissed/made out once in high school, and in all honestly didn’t feel anything that felt like a sign that I was meant to be with women or that I even wanted to be with women. I tried it again in college with the same girl, kissed a few times and again that phase ended as soon as it started.
Well fast forward to now, and I think those dreams reawakened/triggered the shame of my past and confusion about why I did the things I did in the past, like watch so much lesbian porn and what happened with my sister. The past is constantly right under the surface and I experience so much shame for what happened that I think it has in consequence influenced the way that I interact with other women in my life, which explains why I’ve always had a difficult time making girlfriends. Whereas before I just didn’t like girls because of jealousy/envy, now I just feel uncomfortable in the presence of women because of my past, but my mind has manifested this discomfort as me being lesbian/bisexual.
Now my days are spent worrying about whether I am a lesbian/bisexual when in reality I have a feeling that I am NOT, because of the fact that I experimented with that girl a few times and didn’t feel that being with a girl is what was “right” for me and that being with men wasn’t what I wanted. I have taken it upon myself to find healing and have read The Untethered Soul a few times and it has helped me with being the witness of my anxious thoughts and mental loop about my sexuality. When I sit with these thoughts about my sexuality and I go deeper into them I understand that my confusion/anxiety/fear is actually coming from a deeper place, which is what I have just shared with you about my sister.
i know and understand the truth but sometimes I still get caught in the mental loop about being a lesbian because I’ve fed into it so much for the past 6 months that it is very powerful and emotionally charged.
Thank you for reading.
September 26, 2018 at 12:06 pm #227671AnonymousGuestDear Lluvia:
It is a mental loop, an HOCD mental loop is a good name for it. I communicated in the past with people having this strong HOCD loop and it was frustrating beyond belief, no matter how much sense I made to the person, the loop won, each and every time. The person sometimes agreed, expressed some relief, but soon enough the loop took over and he or she kept repeating the same old, same old, as if I said nothing. This is the nature of obsession, it maintains itself.
This is why the issue is not sexual orientation. The issue is obsession.
And obsession is fueled by ongoing fear, aka anxiety. What you described as your childhood is about being alone, unattended and that is the breeding ground for anxiety. You focused on experiencing sexual sensations from an early age because it was pleasurable. You needed pleasure in an otherwise distressing childhood.
I don’t think you mentioned psychotherapy, having attended any?
anita
September 26, 2018 at 12:44 pm #227691LluviaParticipantI have not attended psychotherapy but I have been to therapy/counseling with a few different psychologists in the past. I was never able to muster up the courage to open about what I have expressed here, it was always more about why I was angry with my mom or stepfather, around the time of the divorce, as well as psychological check ups after I was released from a place where I was observed for my self harm tendencies / and my developing eating disorder. I have not self harmed or restricted my diet/binged/purged since then.
Psychotherapy today is out of the picture as I cannot afford to pay for it. Besides, I would like to say that I can find the strength somewhere within me to heal this HOCD on my own.
i want to say that this HOCD / obsessive compulsive thinking has really never been a problem in the past until the HOCD became a thing but I’m starting to see that my small but yet still very real eating disorder from the past, of restricting/binging/purging was also a form of obsession.
do you think that this obsession has stemmed from what I have shared about my sister or do you think it does even deeper than that? Potentially stemming from abandonment issues, because that is an also very real thing that I experienced in my life beyond just feeling unacknowledged and alone as a teen. When I was 2-3 my mother abandoned me because of her alcoholism (she is now sober) and I didn’t have a relationship with her again until I was 7-8 when she regained custody of me. My father was also never in the picture.
September 26, 2018 at 12:50 pm #227693AnonymousGuestDear Lluvia:
I am currently not focused enough and would like to re-read all your posts here (and whatever you may add0 when I am back to the computer in about fifteen hours. For now, I will say that being alone, for a child, is a very difficult situation, what I referred to above as the breeding ground for anxiety. It doesn’t take a lot to scare a child, but having no one there to comfort a child, even a small fear can become big and ongoing. A child simply needs someone there to pay attention, to see her, to hear her.
The abuse you mentioned of your younger sister, did it include any violence on your part, any threats or such?
Will be back in about fifteen hours. Take good care of yourself.
anita
September 26, 2018 at 1:33 pm #227703LluviaParticipantThere were not threats of any kind, no. I look forward to reading your response. Thank you!
September 27, 2018 at 7:39 am #227765AnonymousGuestDear Lluvia:
First I will retell your story, then I will give you my input. The retelling:
When you were two or three, your mother abandoned you and you didn’t have a relationship with her for four or five years, not before you were seven or eight when she regained custody of you. At some point after regaining custody, she shared with you openly about her sexual life, including a lesbian relationship that she had (“I was aware that my mom had been with a woman at one point in her life, she was very open with me about her life”).
Your biological father was “never in the picture. When you were four, you were sexually abused by an uncle, an older teenage boy at the time. You knew then that “what was happening was ‘wrong'”. At seven- eight years old, you began masturbating and “humping anything I could get my hands on”, including a your favorite stuffed animal. In second grade you had crushes on boys in school and considered yourself in love with a boy when you were in fourth grade.
When you were about ten, your baby sister came along and you were “so excited to have a little baby in the family”, but soon found out that she took attention away from you. When you were about 13, your mother and stepfather were getting divorced, you “felt so alone, isolated, misunderstood and in need of some love and connection”, “spent a lot of my day just looking at porn” and “masturbating constantly”. About that time you sexually abused your sister who was a toddler. You “knew instantly that what I had done was absolutely wrong and I felt ashamed”. You also felt “self hate and disgust”, depressed and anxious.
Two years later, at about fifteen you told your stepfather about it, he was understanding and forgiving, and you felt relieved, “the shame and pain of that experience fell away to the back of my mind”.
At certain times you exhibited “self harmed or restricted my diet/binged/purged”.
When you were in high school one of your peers was a lesbian who showed you interest, you “liked the attention she was giving me” and you experimented sexually with her and then resumed your interest in boys, “wanting boys and dating boys”. You had sex for the first time with one of your high school boyfriends. Later in college you reconnected with your lesbian high school friend and experimented again with her for a week. Shortly after you pursued a relationship with a young man you knew since high school.
During your relationship with your most recent boyfriend you experienced “fear about whether the relationship would work out… always looking for reasons why it wouldn’t work out”. 1.5 years into that relationship you started experiencing fear regarding your sexual orientation (HOCD), a fear that is still ongoing following the ending of the relationship and “consumes me on a daily basis… every single day these thoughts are on repeat and cause me so much turmoil inside that it makes me just want to die”.
You can’t afford psychotherapy and you believe that you can “find the strength somewhere within me to heal this HOCD on my own”.
And now, my input:
1. In some contexts, a mother being open with her daughter about her sexuality may be appropriate. Doesn’t read it me that it was in the context you experienced: your mother was out of your life for years and reads like a closeness was not established since her return to your life, you were very lonely and alone much of the time, and chose to tell your stepfather, not your mother, about the abuse of your little sister. In the context of lack of closeness with your mother, her telling you about her sexual experience (worse the younger you were when she told you and if she told you repeatedly) established a sort of closeness with your own mother based on sex, and that harmed you.
2. Your experience with your teenage uncle abusing you harmed you as well.
3. Abusing your own sister harmed you too, being at this point on both sides of the abuse, having been abused sexually by your uncle and abusing your sister.
4. Having been separated from your mother and never experiencing closeness with her, feeling lonely at home, being alone much of the time was harmful for you.
Your focus on sexual stimulation was a way for you to feel good within the context of a lonely childhood that didn’t feel good.
5. I believe it is possible for you to heal from HOCD while not attending therapy. If you did attend therapy, most of the healing would have been done by you on your own, away from the office. I have suffered from OCD since early childhood and have a lot of experience with it, including with much healing from it. But it will be far from easy. It will take you many months before you experience significant and consistent improvement, I think. There is no way to .. just get rid of it, to feel good from now on. You will have to accept feeling the distress you have been feeling for a long time to come and be extremely patient with the process.
It is similar to a child fearing high places. Let’s say you hold her hand and talk logic to her, then talk to her about climbing a mountain. Once she is scared, no amount of logic will do. Holding her hand, you will need to allow her to relax, then later, attempt climbing a very small hill, then relax, then the same hill, and only when she is comfortable with that reduced challenge, attempt a bigger hill. Fear is the most powerful emotion there is, so you deal with it gradually, gently and with lots and lots of patience.
You have a good, logical and educational understanding of your HOCD, of that mental loop. You will have to deal with your HOCD anxiety gradually, that is, when it happens, when you notice the thoughts and attached fear, you will need to relax, distract perhaps (ex, a walk, relaxing music), then later, when the thoughts/ distress resume, to observe the thoughts and imagine them coming in through one window and exiting from another window. And again. And again.
I mentioned the holding of the hand. You will need social support. Maybe attending a free support group can help you, a place where you will share the childhood experiences you shared about here.
There is much more I can write about this, but enough for now. If you would like, let me know your th0ughts and feelings about what I wrote here and we can continue to communicate.
anita
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