Home→Forums→Relationships→Depressed due to guilt and fear
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March 20, 2016 at 7:19 pm #99610AnonymousGuest
Dear Ravi:
If your grandmother cannot be reasoned with, absolutely not and it has been tried for years with no success, and when she is in your home she throws tantrums and acts crazy, harming you and your parents, then she should not be in your home. She should live elsewhere, maybe under supervision of a caretaker. maybe you can visit her there. But you don’t let a crazy, tantrum throwing, abusing person into your home, giving her free access to hurt you. At least, it is crazy to let a crazy person roam free in one’s house and create havoc.
Dragon, fighting the dragon with love. And with ongoing assertiveness. Being assertive is part of love.
anita
March 20, 2016 at 8:45 pm #99637ravi_zimmerfanParticipantShe is not bad like that as such… in fact, if directly asked she agrees that independence and being self sufficient is important. But when I actually try to do that, she doesn’t like it. Hopefully after I pass my exams, this will be much less of an issue and I’ll be able to develop more self confidence and slowly overcome the short temper and insecurities.
Indeed being assertive is part of love. I don’t think there exists any relation in the world without conflicts at some point or the other, but people learn to be assertive and sort it out without there being fights or any significant negative incidents. It’s due to love for the other person. Jerry means the world to me and yet due to these inner flaws, I could not stop the dragon from taking over. It’s time to show that I truly am willing to change and do anything for her sake.
We have a festival here the day after tomorrow, and I am considering messaging wishes to her. Hopefully she’ll be calmer by now. After that, I am not sure how to proceed.
March 20, 2016 at 8:56 pm #99639AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
If directly asked if you being independent and self sufficient is a good thing, she would say Yes. But if you practice being independent and self sufficient she will express her disapproval of you.
So she is indeed, unreasonable, as in not reasonable, logically inconsistent… cognitively untrustworthy, and so forth.
And like you wrote in the most recent post, no relationships without conflicts, therefore being assertive is a must- have skill.
Jerry sure means the world to you!
A festival? Hope you enjoy it and I hope your message to her will be short and light and that she will respond in kind.
Good night (for me), take good care of yourself!
anita
March 21, 2016 at 8:37 am #99689AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
I just finished reading all your posts on this thread, all of them.
In one you wrote: “I feel that whatever great things and heart’s desires have been accomplished in the world to this day, have been done by people with great courage against impossible odds by never giving up.”
This is what I believe you will need to do: to accomplish something with great courage and against (almost) impossible odds. That something is to free yourself from this family you live with. To make a life for yourself elsewhere. As soon as you can, as soon as practically possible. Get a job and move out. ASAP.
I no longer recommend you contact Jerry. I highly recommend you move out ASAP, make an independent life for yourself and (through anger management, assertiveness and independent living) remove the dragon from your mind and give it back to the people that put it there: grandmother, the Main dragon, and her Minions: mother, father.
anita
March 21, 2016 at 9:10 am #99691ravi_zimmerfanParticipantThanks Anita for your wonderful efforts to understand and help… I know I’m repeating myself but it means a lot to me.
At least now, my parents have accepted their fault and agreed to co-operate with me henceforth. The other thing is, which is bothering me most… I cannot get a job so soon. Due to some issues (complicated and not relevant here) I had to leave college and have currently applied for elsewhere, and the crucial exam is in May. Not only is it a deciding factor for my career, but I also have to prove myself worthy of Jerry, to her family. As it is, the situation is dreadful and if I don’t make it now, there is very little hope to achieve my heart’s wish. I already wasted Jan-Feb due to depression and though I’m still disturbed due to our recent fight and her being upset with me, am trying to study thinking I’m doing it for her.
Once I get into college, I’ll be away from my grandma for most of the time and hopefully can get her used to me becoming independent. There remains the issue of Jerry getting married before I can get a job… or refusing to accept my feelings at all, out of fear. That’s clouding my mind and preventing me from studying well. Though my heart says all will be fine if only I do everything honestly and with sincere effort.
March 21, 2016 at 9:26 am #99693AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
After reading all your posts this morning, I am full of anger at your grandmother and your parents for having done such disservice to you. I am angry at them for keeping you dependent on them, isolated from others, turned against others (all are your enemies, is their message, when in fact: they have been your enemies so far! Or very, very misguided friends, so much so that better have enemies than such misguided “friends”)
You wrote they, your parents, sacrificed for you- the food and clothing and computer access they purchased for you are not worth you spending 26 years in a prison you didn’t have to be in, and you wouldn’t have been in, if they didn’t place and keep you there.
As far as Jerry: what about your rage? I have no reason to think you are ready now to communicate with her. I think the journal idea is a good one, but it would be irresponsible for me to encourage you to contact her. Anger management, healing, living independently, all these are going to take time.
I will take a break from your thread (not necessarily the forum) because I am distressed over your situation, the disservice and injustice that was done to you… and over you passing on the injustice to others in the form of your own rage.
I will write to you again when I am calm and rested (slept poorly last night). Till then, please take good care of yourself.
anita
March 21, 2016 at 10:45 am #99705ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI agree Anita that what they did cannot be overlooked. In fact I expressed to them yesterday that whoever has known about my issue, even my teacher, has blamed them for bringing me up in a wrong manner. Thus it may have been my grandma’s wishes but since they passively submitted to the same, they will be criticized by others as much as her. I hope the point was made and they’ll rectify this henceforth.
Enemies is too strong a word, but misguided definitely fits. Way too much misguided, sadly. They are too gullible and people easily make them believe anything by using tempting offers. I can’t say too much in public but regarding the college I had to leave, it was both directly and indirectly my grandma’s and parents’ faults, as well as my own for failing to do my own research and protesting to do things right. Medical entrance exams here are extremely tough, and instead of letting me go to a good coaching institute to prepare for the same, my grandma insisted on home tutoring. My parents submitted to her wishes because (acc. to them) –
1) I don’t have a vehicle of my own, will not be allowed to use public transport and dad can’t take a leave from office all the time to drop and pick me up.
2) Grandma insists that if I am out of home, my parents carry food to me every 30 min or so, wait outside class for me and then escort me home before dinner at any cost (no exaggeration).
The home tutoring was way insufficient and I could not clear the exams. Then they found a person who said I could join this newly opened college which is super awesome etc etc… grandma found the guy’s words very trustworthy and we went ahead. When it turned out to be more or less a scam, I wanted to leave after 1.5 years when it was too much to stand, and my parents forced me to continue by emotionally blackmailing me. When finally things got really bad, even they had to agree with me. And here I am.
I don’t blame just them and I accept that the major fault is mine for not refusing and choosing the right path myself, what any strong willed and sensible person would’ve done. My parents always had my best interests at heart… and they believed that guy’s words which were too good to be true, hoping for the best for me, refusing to listen to me thinking they know what’s best for me. I just know that this thing has went way too far now. I love my family, doesn’t mean I can follow any unreasonable wishes and let my life be ruined. I too have my dreams and heart’s wishes. I love Jerry and I prefer to die than to lose her. I need control over my temper and I need to fix my broken career. For that, I need to be assertive and not accept being subdued like you mentioned.
I’ve started keeping the diary and so far have managed to avoid using swear words and am trying my best to control my temper during little incidents like rash drivers on road and all. I’ll message my greetings to Jerry on the festival.. after that, I dunno whether and when to contact her, and what to say. Am only thinking of the festival greetings for now.
Thanks and I’m sorry that you felt distressed. Am truly grateful for your compassion and sincere help. Please take care too.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by ravi_zimmerfan.
March 21, 2016 at 11:35 am #99713AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
looking back at today, how I got angry, notice I took a break. Taking a break is one skill taught at anger-management classes. Such a simple skill, taking a break, removing yourself from the situation when angry- those few moments, or however long the break, can save a lot of trouble, serve to cool off the rage.
I suppose your grandmother and parents are quite ignorant. Your grandmother is aggressive, and your parents are passive, mostly, it seems to me. But all three are ignorant. They may have your best interest at heart but the deliver what is your … worst interest.
So does it matter whether they are your enemies or misguided friends, if what they do is against your well being; if what you do hurts you a lot?
Doesn’t matter when you look at the results, that is your own life!
So, yes, sounds like they are not at all critical thinkers, that is they are gullible. But why would they believe a stranger (about the college) and not listen to YOU?
Why did they respect the person who told them about the college scam and not respect what you have to say? That I do not like!
In any case, you learned your lessons that regardless of their intentions, they are not CAPABLE to deliver on their intents to operate for your best interest. In fact, in reality,again and again.. and yet again, they operated for your worst interest.
So, you, Ravi, I hope (and you sound like, from your writings) to be more intelligent than any of the three of them. So, if you listen to them at this point about anything at all,that would make you… what?
To be wise, don’t listen to them. Know that their intents are irrelevant to what they actually deliver with their words and choices.
Take charge. You are way, way, way…. way more likely to make good choices for yourself than any of them is and the three of them put together (as history clearly indicates).
Take charge then. One thing I am sure of: there is nobody in your household more qualified than you to choose better for yourself. Take charge, Ravi, every day and in everything!
anita
March 21, 2016 at 12:09 pm #99716ravi_zimmerfanParticipantYes, taking a break is what I had practiced last year and for a good while it did work. I had read this story about a monk who sat with his hands folded with a bottle of alcoholic drink in front of him, and told his disciples – “I cannot control my inner craving for the drink from manifesting in my mind, but as long as my hands are tightly folded, the craving alone can’t make me commit any wrong.” I had tried just that. When I was talking to Jerry and any situation seemed to have taken a dangerous turn, I just left the phone aside and went back after cooling down. On some occasions it worked… and on others, when the thing got too far, the inner voice yelling “coward” forced me to react. And sadly cooling down sometimes takes time for me too. Like after our last argument, it took me 2 days to get off the anger, that too after she sent her soft message.
I don’t consider myself intelligent or anything. 😛 But ya, an emotional fool I surely am. At least I didn’t know what to do when they – someone I love very much – staged a drama, after I had said that doing something else is better than staying in that college, saying – “I hate this wretched life, I hope I (insert horrible fate) so that in my next life I can get a doctor for a son”. And after I broke down, hugged me saying they did the drama just to elicit this response from me, and are sorry as they have my best interests at heart. I really didn’t like it but I did not have the heart to say or do anything except going with the flow. I’m bearing the consequences now… in fact, we all are. I just do not wish to see my career go down the drain and even more not see myself losing Jerry. I will definitely take charge.
March 21, 2016 at 1:25 pm #99728AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
To the explosive anger, there is no one solution, or one tool to use. If you were in therapy for it, you would learn a number of tools, one works when the anger is not that intense, another works when your anger is more intense. Plus the ongoing taking charge of your life is going be extremely helpful for your anger problem.
Regarding me telling you that you are intelligent, please pay attention, Ravi, because I don’t want you to miss my point. Yes, I think you are intelligent from our correspondence, definitely, no less intelligent than I am, as far as I can tell. But I am not here trying to flatter you. For example, I don’t know if you are intelligent enough to pass any particular test in any school out there because I don’t know the test requirements. What I do know, and please pay attention:
What I do know is that you are more intelligent than your parents and your grandmother, that you have way more critical thinking skills than they do. I know that from the quotes and descriptions you gave me on page after page of this thread.
Included the latest example in your last post. I tell you this for practical reasons. Please absorb this reality all the way: you are way more intelligent than the three of them, way more capable of making good choices than the three of them put together.So no longer let them make decisions for you. They have a very bad record of success in making decisions for you. Make your own decisions. You can’t do much worse than them. You can only make better choices if you take charge.
anita
P.S. Also, they are not honest. They manipulate you, at least your grandmother and mother, manipulating you: “I hate this wretched life, I hope… so that in my next life I can get a doctor for a son”- just like your kind of talk. Not coincidental, Ravi.
March 21, 2016 at 7:37 pm #99769LaceyParticipantI am just very lonely.. and no one knows that I am. I have people that I spend time with sometimes but I always feel like they don’t want to spend time with me. I never hang out with anyone on my own. There is always someone else there with me like my twin sister. She is more talkative, pretty, skinny, and simply better than me. And once people meet her, no one wants to continue talking to me. I’m so ugly.. and pathetic. No one loves me.. how could anyone ever want someone so ugly like me? Everyone thinks that I’m ok and I’m fine because I’m quiet. I’m just in the background of other people’s lives.. I don’t matter. So why don’t I just leave? It won’t make a difference.. I’m just so sad. I’m so sad and no one wants me around.
March 21, 2016 at 8:06 pm #99771AnonymousGuest* Dear 1980s: Can you please copy your post above and paste it on a new thread (click FORUMS above, you will get a page with Categories, choose… Tough Times, click it, get the page, scroll all the way down, there will be an empty box for a title of a new thread and a bigger box for the body of your post).I will be glad to reply to you there. This thread here was started by another member, the original poster, and should remain about his topic.
anitaMarch 22, 2016 at 2:39 am #99804ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI know Anita. The anger is almost chronic. I felt I had controlled it well last year, I even stop visited our TV forum in order to eliminate the root cause of our conflicts. I had honestly felt that we would never have a fight again. But then I realized I had become so possessive of her, and all that I mentioned in my first post happened. Despite my and my friends’ efforts to control it, the worst finally happened.
I am wondering why I felt so insecure seeing her bond with her brother. After all any sensible person (including my own rational side) would’ve said the same, that I should be glad that despite knowing each other for just 3 years on the Internet, she gave me such a special place in her heart and life. But I could not see her loving someone else as brother. It mystified me because most of my other friends I love a lot as sisters also have brothers, and I never felt this way in any other case. Though after I accepted that my feelings for her had changed, the possessiveness became easy enough to control. But I still am wondering if it has its roots in my family upbringing issue you mentioned, and is worth pondering over.
I agree about taking charge and am doing my best to work on it. I just went back on our forum and saw some posts by her… just made me feel extremely depressed remembering all our happy times and what happened recently, realization of the grim present hit me all over again. I’m feeling like crying. I pray everything turns alright, and I prove myself worthy of her, because I truly do not wish to live without her. Our festival is tomorrow and I’m thinking how to wish her appropriately. Hope I do it right.
@I980s – Hope all gets well for you too, and you find this wonderful site helpful. My best wishes. 🙂
March 22, 2016 at 9:22 am #99817AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
As to your first paragraph above, will power has proven to be not enough to control the powerful rage within you. This is why other methods have to be applied: tools to manage anger as well as insight into the … birth of that rage in you (in home life) as well as taking charge of your life every single day, in every opportunity.
As to your second paragraph: you wondered why you felt so insecure (threatened) seeing Jerry bond with her brother. I am thinking it is a result of the teaching as you described, the teaching by your grandmother and mother that closeness with others, friends, is wrong, a bad thing, a threatening thing. Your grandmother in particular is threatened by you forming bonds with others as if it takes away from your bond with her. She herself is very possessive and jealous. Both these women kept you isolated so to possess you. As if you getting close to others is a bad thing. You were taught, and taught well, that to love is to possess and that to be loved is to be possessed. No sharing, no tolerance of other intimacies, not even with (Jerry’s) brother.
What do you think?
anita
March 22, 2016 at 9:58 am #99823ravi_zimmerfanParticipantYes Anita. I need to use those tools to the fullest in order to control the rage. At least I’m trying in little ways to make it more effective. Like today while returning home, my dad took a wrong turn at a place that caused us to get stuck in a jam. I got irritated a blurted out a word I had sworn not to use. So decided to punish myself by cutting down snacks tonight. Feels almost childish but I just want to leave no stone unturned. 😛 And am maintaining that diary regularly.
That’s a plausible explanation, though I’m not sure if that’s it. My mom never really disliked me being close to friends and all… but grandma did, though she doesn’t admit it. The last line you wrote – “to love is to possess, to be loved is to be possessed” does ring a bell uncomfortably, though. I vividly remember that “she is MINE, I wish I was her only brother, I wish all that love was MINE only” feeling. What baffles me is, I had never felt this way for anyone else, no matter how much I liked them. Here, however, I could not even stand them having a conversation, no matter how short. If she did not reply me on messenger, I used to automatically feel she’s chatting with him. If she was offline on messenger, I used to feel she’s chatting on Facebook. If offline on both places, I felt she’s admiring his photos on Instagram or talking on phone. I used to keep checking if he’s online, and when he came, kept demanding her what she’s doing, whom she’s talking with. Needless to say, she didn’t like this pathological obsession of mine at all and it only made things worse. And the incident I mentioned in my first post (her Liking his photos) finally broke the dam. I got forcibly angry, saying that this proves she loves him far more than me and never truly considered me a brother… no wonder she was so hurt and upset. I regret all of it so badly.
I just wish I had the courage to accept my true feelings earlier, so that much of this above fiasco could’ve been avoided. I had bee trying to forget all this. But after your suggestion about trying to understand what message my anger/frustration has been giving me, I’m trying to decipher the message in this. Perhaps it may be relevant in helping win over the chronic anger.
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