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Do you exist? I don’t.

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  • #414329
    Peter
    Participant

    During the process of death and rebirth there is an opportunity to choose which realm you are born into.

    Not sure if ‘choose’ is the correct word. If in that perspective life and death are a “something” that is separate or a experience that is projected to some future end/beginning then karma/memory (seeing the world as we are not as it is) is a huge factor in that notion of choice. Begs the question how to see the world as it is and so respond to it as it is? The answer involves getting out of the ‘I’ out of the way.  Thus we work for that which no work is required as thier is no I.

    From another perspective ‘death and rebirth’ is THE realty of every “Now”- every breath a opportunity to get out of the way.

    What you are in your in-most being escapes your examination in rather the same way that you can’t look directly into your own eyes without using a mirror, you can’t bite your own teeth, you can’t taste your own tongue, and you can’t touch the tip of this finger with the tip of this finger – Watts

    The I does not exist as sperate. Nothing is separate and everything belongs.

    “Your real self, the real you, is everything there is… but concentrated and expressing itself at the point called your physical organism.”

    “We are all floating in a tremendous river and the river carries you along. Some of the people in the river are swimming against the current, but they are still being carried along. Others have learned that the art of the thing is to swim with it. You have to flow with the river. There is no other way. You can swim against it, and pretend not to be flowing with it. But you still flow with the river. Swimming Headless
    <div>“When you know that you have to go with the river, suddenly you acquire—behind everything that you do—the power of the river.” – Watts</div>

     

    #414337
    Peter
    Participant

    As a aside karma/memory disappears once one ‘knows’ (not a mind knowing) that life and death are not sperate. There not even two sides of the same coin, at least that’s not a great metaphor. The problem being is that your likely pick up the coin and flip it calling heads OR tails when their is no OR. No matter how small you slice the coin you will never be able to separate the two.

    A issue hear is language as we don’t have a word to communicate this think that is  life/death though some might use the word G_d if that word wasn’t so loaded. Perhaps the word Tao – Watts “I prefer not to translate the word Tao at all because the Tao is a sort of nonsense syllable, indicating the mystery that we can never understand—the unity that underlies the opposites.”

    #414338
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi Peter!

    It’s a pleasure to read your perspective as always. You are correct.

    Technically, the opportunity to choose would require training. Most people who don’t receive Tibetan Buddhist training would be unprepared for the experience of dying. They wouldn’t have sufficient control to choose a realm.

    I would love to receive this training myself one day. Their perspective on death is fascinating.

    Wishing you all the best 🙏

    #414394
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Helcat
    The African Yoruba religion have a interesting take on reincarnation is that the soul actually chooses the experience they wish to have in life.  No training required. I have a friend that believes this as it give her comfort.

    From what I read of the wisdom traditions with regards to choosing ones next life, it stars with ‘knowing one self’ so that you can ‘see’ reality clearly and thier by respond to it vice react. Then you get face with the challenge of coming to terms with the problem of opposites, duality, binary thinking.   You can see the problem of binary thinking played out on social media where everything seems to be either or, like – dislike, with me – against me, all or nothing. Language doesn’t help as its dependent on contrasting and implying the opposite.

    Funny thing as the problem of opposites becomes resolved within ones experience, words disappear including the ‘I’ which I think Rob hints at.

    I’d be very interested in you take on a problem I’ve had with Buddhism and other traditions. In Buddhism only the Now exists yet many of the concepts and teachings appear to be projected onto some future and that seems like a contradiction.

    Lately when I read about such things from various wisdom traditions I’ve been re-referencing the teachings to the Now. Is what I’m learning about the Now? In that context the teachings seem to resonate. Heaven is now, nirvana is now, hell is now, purgatory is now, death is now, life is now…  If we don’t notice its because we see the world as we are not as it is, we get in the way. So the work (training) is so that we see ourselves better and doing so get out of the way. (surprise the self, small s, disappears as does separateness.)

    Using the story of the Garden, Adam and Eve gain the knowledge or good and evil. Note that  ‘knowledge of‘ is not the same as the ‘knowledge of what is‘ and so we have tension between the opposites. This tension gives birth to ego consciousness, language and the problem of opposites.  How can something be good one moment and bad the next? Its a problem, and the first thing Adam and Eve note with this new ego consciousness is that they are separate, maybe not good and naked where being naked is judged shameful. So they try to hide and cover themselves up with layers of ‘clothing’ – personas/masks.

    The end is in the beginning, babies become conscious though the tension of opposite and the suspicion of separation from mother.  Then we spend the rest of our lives trying to undo that experience which all the wisdom traditions point to involving learning to see through the problem of opposites and a realization that we arn’t and never were separate ‘I’s’.

    You, me, everyone, everything is IT and that is a happening and possibility of every Now.

    No Idea if that made any sense just seeing where the thoughts go. Still thanks for allowing me to express them.

    #414403
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi Peter

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts, it is always a pleasure to talk with you! I enjoy your unique perspective. Thank you for sharing the information about other religious practices and their beliefs on rebirth as well.

    I think the example of the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve is a good way to conceptualise good and bad concurrently. As a result, we all gained free will. At the same time protection ceased. A choice for arguably a good thing, also results in pain.

    You seem to have a good understanding of Buddhism already.

    You’re right, Buddhism often contradicts itself. What I’ve experienced is a focus on dualism and non-dualism. Everything is and isn’t at the same time.

    Disease of the mind is a concern. A lot of harms from the past, our memory revisits in the present. At the same time, the present and the future can be problematic too. Attachment in general is warned against but at the same time welcomed.

    Ultimately, our actions in the present are all we have control over. The present serves as an anchor to train the mind how to function in a healthy way.

    There’s also insight into the function of nothingness as the mind is afraid of not existing.

    I’m curious if you have any questions, or if I managed to answer your question at all?

     

     

    #414421
    Peter
    Participant

    Thanks Helcat

    I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experience with  attachment, memory and being Present.  I find it helpful in hearing how others express thier experiences with what they are learning.

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