June 8, 2020 at 3:33 pm #357969
I see, the quotes in my May 19 post to you. You asked if I wanted you to figure out what each of the quotes means in particular or all together as a whole- not all together as a whole. Pick any one quote that makes you feel a particular way, a feeling that calls you to look more into the quote, and respond to that quote, or to part of that quote. (In an emotional journey it is bit by bit, part by part, you don’t see it all as a whole).
Let me know what you think or feel about this movie, but don’t pressure yourself to feel any particular way, if you don’t feel anything about it, that’s fine.
anitaJune 9, 2020 at 6:09 am #357986ArunParticipant
It is very difficult get rid of yours bad times but yes its not impossible. Yes, if you have feeling to red rid from yours bad times as in my case when i was just completely broken when i do not getting any good job and i needed the money urgently,then always i found nothing from my all day efforts.Then my grand father tells me to cool yours mind by going towards some religious and spiritual activities and this helps me a lot.Yes you can also try this as you can read Shree hanuman aarti or any one which is better to yours religion and i do also read shiv chalisa ganesh chalisa and also hanuman chalisaAnd, i do also Yoga mostly the Surya Namaskar.I think by doing all this it can helps you.
Thank you.June 9, 2020 at 11:39 pm #358093AnadyParticipant
Great conversation between both of you.
June 19, 2020 at 10:49 am #358965
- This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Anady.
On March 30 and April 8, you shared the following: “One day when coming home from school, I was stopped on the street by a boy who is known for being a trouble maker and he poured a drink on me just for fun. That made me become afraid of going out in the street alone for a few years, and even now I am kind of afraid of these kinds of people being on the street. The police doesnt do anything against them, so I feel I have absolutely no power over the situation… The person who poured a drink on me.. was one of many people.. who live in a ‘ghetto’ part of the town. They haven’t gone to school, they don’t work, they live on welfare, they behave like the world is theirs, and the police doesn’t do anything to them because even they are afraid of them. There is a high risk that if anybody tries to confront them they will take their revenge because they are simply not afraid of anybody, having almost nothing to lose”.
On April 9 you wrote: “I don’t feel that the world outside my home I hostile and dangerous. I never have.”
If you want to explain to me the extreme inconsistency between you describing the world outside your home as clearly dangerous, and then stating that not only you don’t feel that the world outside your home is dangerous, but you never have considered it dangerous, please do.
anitaJuly 19, 2020 at 8:43 am #362085
I apologize for being absent for such a long time. I was busy with some things and I also wanted to write back to you after I watch Never Ending Story, which I still haven’t done, but will soon. So after I watch the movie I will write a new post with answers to all unanswered questions.
In the mean time, I would like to recommend you the movie Brooklyn (2015). I liked its perspective and message. I think you will too.
I’ll be back soon, and thank you!
July 19, 2020 at 9:22 am #362089
- This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Matthew.
Welcome back to your thread. I will be looking forward to you posting next with your answer the one question I asked you in my most recent post to you on June 19.
July 24, 2020 at 3:33 pm #362614
- This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by anita.
I will begin by replying to the last question, about the contradiction between my two replies: The best answer I can give is that by “the world outside my home” I referred to other places outside my hometown or country (but not just any place, of course). On the other hand, it’s clear that I see my hometown or other similar places as being more dangerous as they actually are. Nevertheless, all I’ve said about those bullies is still true today. I feel that one who is physically strong and brave can face them without problems, and would not describe the place as being dangerous, because even if the law enforcement is not defending them, they know that they can trust their own physical strength. But for someone like me who is not physically strong it’s harder because I personally feel that I cannot rely on either the bullies’ (almost non-existent) fear of the police or my (also non-existent) physical strength to inspire fear inside them. People would tell me to defend myself. But I just can’t imagine that scenario working. The way I see it is that if I hit back I will be hit back even harder and the one suffering the damages will still be me as the bullies would not be punished by the law (or they would not care about being punished).
If you are not satisfied with my answer, please ask me additional questions.
In previous posts you wrote:
“I want you to, take on your emotional learning journey as the leader: show me the way in this journey of yours. You figure out what these quotes mean and what is helpful for you to do next (not just to think, but to do)…… Pick any one quote that makes you feel a particular way, a feeling that calls you to look more into the quote, and respond to that quote, or to part of that quote.”
“I felt I belonged to the world I was part of” and “In kindergarten things were good, I enjoyed playing with others and I felt that they did too with me” – maybe the most powerful lines of all. It’s what I’m still confronting with today. I remember feeling accepted and having a sense of belonging. I felt I knew how things worked. I knew that if I do X I will get Y. But now I feel I don’t know how the world works, and I’ve lost that sense of belonging. But I cannot fulfill your second requirement and write what I should do, because I don’t know. I can only tell you what I think. I think I should try to keep looking for my place in the world, and I think I should move away to a different part of the world where I feel I might find it. Sometimes I have moments when I envision the whole thing and I really think I can manage and make it, but then I’m being reminded of this feeling of not being wanted or needed, which takes my hopes and courage away.
And regarding The Neverending Story:
I liked the idea and the message of the movie. I especially liked how “the Nothing” represented the lack of imagination, and I think it can be extended to lack of hope, lack of people doing things they want and like. It’s a very powerful element, which I often see around me, because so many people give up all the things that they like or want in order to adhere to a lifestyle that actually takes away the beauty of life.
I’m curious what in the movie has had such a strong influence on you that it managed to motivate you to begin your journey?July 24, 2020 at 4:08 pm #362615
“what in the movie has had such a strong influence on you that it managed to motivate you to begin your journey?”-
– one scene that comes to mind, perhaps the most powerful, is when Atreyu faces a mirror of sorts, and he runs away from it, and so does Sebastian while reading this particular part of the story. As I understood it, a crucial part of the Atreyu’s journey, parallel to what I call the healing journey (or the “Emotional Learning Journey”, as your title calls it)- is to see who we truly are, who others truly are- to see reality as it is.
When you wrote April 9: “I don’t feel that the world outside my home is hostile and dangerous. I never have”- this is a very strong, absolute sentence. And you stated you never felt it was dangerous.
In your recent post you stated: “It’s clear that I see my hometown or other similar places as being more dangerous than they actually are”- you feel that your hometown and similar places are dangerous- even more dangerous than they are.
So why did you make such an absolute statement earlier, that you never felt that the world outside your home is dangerous ? I don’t know how to proceed from here. How can I trust that what you tell me is close enough to the truth when you moved so far from the truth?
Back to the mirror in the movie: look at it, don’t overthink, don’t rationalize, don’t think what you prefer to think/ what is convenient to think. Instead- look at the mirror, see what’s there, don’t add anything to it. Don’t try to make the image you see prettier than it is. See what’s there rather than what you wish was there.
July 25, 2020 at 12:15 pm #362711
- This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by anita.
Thank you for replying so fast (as usual).
Regarding the movie, how did the mirror scene help you see reality and yourself the way you are? If it actually made you go out in the world alone something in particular must have a had a huge impact on you, that’s why I’m asking.
Regarding my answer, again, as I said in my previous reply, “the world outside my home” means other countries, not my hometown (I interpreted “the world” as actually the world). But the fact that I believe I tent to see things differently than they really are, because of my past experience, is still true.
And as you could see so far I sometimes think or write things that oppose each other. It’s not the first time it happens. Whenever I reply to you I write what I feel in that moment. I don’t know myself and I don’t know all the answers. If I did, this post would not exist.
You wrote “How can I trust that what you tell me is close enough to the truth when you moved so far from the truth?” – Ever since we began this chat, I’ve been writing my most honest thoughts to you, and I am willing to tell you even my deepest secrets, because I know very well that the point of all this is to be honest. I would never lie to you intentionally, because that would imply lying to myself, so please never think that I am hiding anything on purpose. I always give my best to answer all your questions as well as possible.July 25, 2020 at 12:52 pm #362713
I felt good when you assured me: “please never think that I am hiding anything on purpose”- thank you.
Regarding the movie, you asked me how did the mirror scene help me see reality and myself the way I am: It didn’t. At the time, the image of myself that I saw in the mirror was a shameful, bad, disgusting, unworthy, unlovable, guilty person. Fast forward, I retroactively see the person that I was as good, 100% loving, and lovable and oh, so innocent. (If only I lived so much of my life seeing the latter image, and not the former).
The movie moved me toward going out into the world because of hope for a better life, hope for life possibly being so much better than the misery that I knew too well.
anitaJuly 27, 2020 at 5:59 am #362840
“I felt good when you assured me: “please never think that I am hiding anything on purpose”- thank you.”
– I may give opposing answers sometimes, but that doesn’t mean I’m ever lying to you. I always tell you what I feel, and the truth is I do feel very confused regarding many things. I am aware that improvement and real solutions can only be found if I don’t hide anything, so I don’t even think about doing that. Anita, I want to tell you again how much I appreciate your help in all this. Thank you.
“At the time, the image of myself that I saw in the mirror was a shameful, bad, disgusting, unworthy, unlovable, guilty person. Fast forward, I retroactively see the person that I was as good, 100% loving, and lovable and oh, so innocent. (If only I lived so much of my life seeing the latter image, and not the former).”
– I feel the exact same way! You used the same words as I would have. But, looking at the past and retrospectively seeing myself in a good way doesn’t help me see myself differently in the present. I feel as if I know the theory but I have no idea how to put it into practice. I know it’s ok to have flaws, I know that I am not a bad person, but I still can’t get myself to apply these beliefs onto myself and replace the guilt and unworthiness with confidence.
The only guilt that I somehow managed to change was the one for sexual pleasure. I used to feel so guilty about any kind of pleasure I’ve given myself for about 10 years. I used to think I was weak and dirty for it. And about 2 years ago I managed to get over it. I still feel guilty and weak sometimes, but it’s usually only when I’m down emotionally.July 27, 2020 at 8:32 am #362857
You are welcome.
“I may give opposing answers sometimes, but that doesnt mean I’m ever lying to you”- it’s good to know but it doesn’t resolve my problem regarding asking you questions: I am not motivated to ask you questions because I don’t trust that I will receive answers close enough to the truth.
“the truth is I do feel very confused regarding many things”- ask me questions, if you want to, maybe I will be able to clarify some things for you.
You wrote that you “feel the exact same way” as I described, which was (what I wrote to you): “the image of myself that I saw in the mirror was a shameful, bad, disgusting, unworthy, unlovable, guilty person”. You wrote that you want to “replace the guilt and unworthiness with confidence”, but you don’t know how to do that.
You shared that you used to feel guilty about experiencing sexual pleasure (or any kind of pleasure, I am not sure) for about 10 years, feeling “so guilty.. weak and dirty for it”. Two years ago, you got over this but you “still feel guilty and weak sometimes.. when I’m down emotionally”.
-so, you “managed to get over it” much of the time, but not all of the time, is what I figure you meant by getting-over-it.
July 27, 2020 at 1:49 pm #362903
- This reply was modified 4 months ago by anita.
“I am not motivated to ask you questions because I don’t trust that I will receive answers close enough to the truth.”
– What I propose is that we give it another go and I’ll give my best to answer your questions as well and as raw honestly as I can, trying to see things deeper and using more exact terms instead of extreme ones like I tend to. What do you think?
“ask me questions, if you want to, maybe I will be able to clarify some things for you.” – In this case, there is one question that comes into my mind right now: How do you see me? What can you conclude so far after all we talked about?
“so, you “managed to get over it” much of the time, but not all of the time, is what I figure you meant by getting-over-it.”
– I think that in order to answer this I should offer you the main background of the subject. If you are not comfortable discussing sexual issues just let me know and I will understand. So, at some point while I was in school I discovered masturbation, which I enjoyed doing. I’ve been raised religious and I used to go to confession 2 times a year. One time (I think I was in the 6th grade) at a confession I told the priest about masturbation and watching pornography to which he answered that by doing this I could die and go to hell, that I should never ever do it again if I want to be forgiven, and that I am not worthy of communion, but he will grant me permission only if I promise never to do it again. This has been such a powerful shock to me that it managed to stay deep inside my head (at the beginning consciously, and afterwards unconsciously) for about 10 years. After that I focused on abstaining but I gave in at some point and every time I did it I used to feel extreme guilt and shame for being dirty and sinful. And that feeling of guilt, shame and strong regret that followed immediately after every time I finished has become something like a reflex. I think that the main thing that helped me get over it partially was the fact that over time I realized the difference between faith and religion, because I’ve seen countless events where priests have used religion to gain power by making people feel bad about themselves. So after reading a lot about it on the interned, listening podcasts, etc. I managed to become a little more open about sexuality by telling myself that it can’t be wrong if it’s not excessive and nobody is hurt by it. So I feel that I was able to make the change because I could see clear proof for it.
Now, regarding the times when I still feel guilty: whenever I’m in a bad mood I start doubting my beliefs. So if I feel down and masturbate, what follows afterwards is a feeling of guilt, shame and regret, but not for considering it a sin, but thinking that I don’t deserve to have that pleasure. And other times, if I feel very lonely (which I very often do) I tell myself that I should be doing this together with somebody, not by myself, but my only and last sexual encounter happened 2 years ago (I was 23 then) and since then I haven’t even been capable of finding anybody to be with me in the last 2 years (unlike many others who have no difficulty in doing so) which creates regret and shame. This lack of intimacy for such a long time makes me feel weak, unwanted, unworthy, confused and sometimes even less of a man.
If I look at things from a different perspective, I could say that I have always respected women, I have always treated women well and as equals, I have never and would never force a woman into doing anything she doesn’t want, so all this makes me a real and strong man. But what gives me a hard time seeing things this way is the fact that people don’t seem to care much about it. I have seen so many of my peers treating women badly and looking them down who have had lots of girlfriends without even making a tiny effort, while from what I remember I’ve been mostly considered too sensitive or too nice to be attractive.
I believe you might think about the possibility of me being too picky or too pretentious, so I’ll offer you a “preventive answer”: I don’t think I am. I’m just looking for genuine, respectable, open and honest people whom I can trust, and whom I can have good conversations with, without feeling inferior or disrespected.July 27, 2020 at 2:21 pm #362913
No, I prefer to not ask you questions at this point, for now. I didn’t ask you questions in my most recent post to you, but I am okay if you.. answer questions I don’t ask.
You asked me: “How do you see me? What can you conclude so far after all we talked about?”- you are very polite, very gracious. I think that you have pride in this regard: coming from a good family, a respectable family, and this pride shows in you communicating with me politely and graciously.
I think that you think very badly of people that you don’t know (and it may be an attitude that was expressed to you by your family), and that you carry a lot of hostility toward those people, particularly the people who you say spend all their time on the streets (I wonder if they are of a different ethnic group than yours, or if they are merely a lower socio-economic group of people to yours).
In other words, I noticed a prejudice against a group of people that is not based on knowing individuals in that group.
I noticed that you are intelligent as well as polite and graceful, and that unfortunately you think very little of yourself, outside perhaps the .. family pride, of being superior to other people. I think that you are very loyal to your family, perhaps because your only source of self esteem is that alleged familial/ group superiority over those other people.
That’s what comes to my mind this afternoon, my time.
You shared about your sexual experience following the religious input you received, that you felt “guilt, shame and strong regret” after masturbating, but you understand better and now, you sometimes still feel “guilt, shame and regret”, but not because you consider masturbation a sin, but because you feel that you “don’t deserve to have that pleasure”, and at other times, you feel guilt, shame and regret because you don’t have a girlfriend.
I wonder if the guilt, shame and regret following you believing that you don’t deserve pleasure/ because you don’t have a girlfriend- is a a better kind of guilt, shame and regret of the religious kind.
anitaJuly 27, 2020 at 4:48 pm #362931
Before I reply, I have a question: by those you call “other people” you mean the people who live in the ghetto and who aggress others on the street?