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Emotionally Unavailable or is there hope?

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  • #376883
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Michelle:

    I am sorry… I know this is painful for you! Please be kind to yourself at this time, rest or go for a walk, some pleasant activity, and post anytime, express yourself here, if it helps.

    anita

    #376885
    Michelle
    Participant

    Well we haven’t broken up. I don’t know what do to with it. We both want to continue. He just doesn’t know, and I don’t know either about the future.

    #376886
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Michelle,

    I am sorry things have turned worse again. I believe he’s afraid of commitment, and one of the reasons might be exactly his OCD, which  limits him extremely, as he needs his structure to maintain his balance and a sense of control. That’s why everything else is less important than him maintaining his sense of “peace”. Unfortunately that means that you too, as a potential disturbing factor, are secondary to his peace. Even though he says “he’s never felt that anyone had fulfilled him this way before“, his fear of things becoming unmanageable is larger. That’s why he cannot and doesn’t want to promise you anything. He’s very confined by his fear and would need to work on it. But if he’s not willing to, there isn’t much you can do.

    You say “it doesn’t feel over“. Well, it doesn’t need to be over if you agree to his conditions – to stay within the confines of his fear, to never mention a committed relationship, to have no expectations from him in that regard. I think Anita once noticed that he might be quite loving and caring within his comfort zone, but as soon as he is asked to step out of it, he shuts down. Now he did it again, as soon as you started probing about the future.

    By the way, I am not surprised he’s not interested in dating other women, because the same fear would arise in him with someone else. You were exceptionally understanding and tolerant with him, and that’s why he said he never felt fulfilled like that before. But unfortunately, he cannot step out of his own prison, so even if we feels good with you, his fear is stronger.

    It just seems like if it’s going to end I’m going to have to do it. But it doesn’t feel over, I just think hes messed up.

    Well, until you’re full of love and understanding for him, he’ll want to stay with you. But if you keep demanding things from him, he might be the one to break up with you. He isn’t going to beg you to stay, because he cannot promise you the things you want from him.

    I am sorry, Michelle. I know you don’t want it to end. But your love isn’t enough for him to change. He would need a strong resolve to work on himself and go to therapy, but he isn’t willing to do that. Perhaps you could ask him – as one final attempt – whether he’s willing to go to therapy, if not for his own but for your sake? And that you see his fears, but is he willing to work to overcome them? Or he’s willing to let the relationship go, because his fear is stronger?

    #376887
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Michelle:

    I didn’t think that you broke up when I posted to you last. I knew you were upset about going back to square one, meaning that he told you the same as before, that he doesn’t see you as a life partner, etc.

    I know this is painful for you to hear yet again.

    You wrote that he is messed up, and it seems like he is, but he is not messed up as in not knowing what he wants with you, he knows that he wants: “to continue things the way they’re going”. And by “going” he means, going from one day to the next, as is.

    But so far, you have not been okay with as-is, not for long.

    anita

    #376892
    Michelle
    Participant

    Thank you ladies for the latest posts. It does help me to try and make what little sense I can of all of it. Yes I do believe he is imprisoned by OCD and he demonstrates a lot of symptoms of rocd like needing to feel like he should feel more for me, worrying that he’s not good enough, that we’re not right, when everything is actually going well. Someone on an rocd forum said someone with OCD trying to trust their gut is a recipe for disaster, as the anxious mind will usually let fear be the deciding factor, or the doubt that they may have. Even if the gut feeling allows them to make a positive decision about someone, feelings come and go and doubts will always come and go, just in a new way. Decisions based on values and what the facts are seem to be better than relying on intuition. In his case he’s waiting for a feeling that will never come, a complete cease of anxiety and doubt. In my case I may be allowing my intuition to lead me into a relationship that is uncertain as for the moment it eases a larger anxiety, a fear of being without him.

    I’ve been alone before and been excited to be dating men again but I don’t feel excited this time. I wonder if I should try again for the sake of my sanity and he says he thinks I will find someone better than him, but I still don’t want to leave him. I don’t think he will find a other woman. I think he could and he could fool himself for a while, but I agree the same features of this relationship would rear their ugly head.  He seems to want to let me end things more for me than him. He seems to know that he won’t be better off. It’s like he’s trying to do what’s fair. I asked if he felt he would feel relief and he said no.

    #376899
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Michelle:

    You are welcome. It seems to me that you have a good understanding of the situation: he suffers from OCD, including ROCD, and like teaK said so well, OCD “limits him extremely.. He’s confined by his fear… he cannot step out of his own prison, so even if (he) feels good with you, his fear is stronger”.

    Like you wrote, the relationship with him, for you “eases a larger anxiety, a fear of being without him”.

    And I add: you are very attached to him, emotionally, perhaps as strongly as a baby is attached to her mother or father. You are drawn to him, and your thinking is secondary to your emotional need to be with him. It is an early, raw need.

    anita

    #376901
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Michelle,

    He seems to want to let me end things more for me than him. He seems to know that he won’t be better off. It’s like he’s trying to do what’s fair. I asked if he felt he would feel relief and he said no.

    Yes, because he knows he’ll be missing your very careful and considerate love and attention, which didn’t cause him anxiety. But your full expression of love, including saying “I love you” to each other and planning for the future – he cannot manage. And I believe you do want to be able to fully express your love and fully live it, without walking on eggshells. He knows his limits, and at this point doesn’t seem interested to stretch them. Or rather, he did stretch them up to a point – you said he can now bear to see you crying, he doesn’t run out of the room if you have an argument, or suchlike. But his biggest fear – of living with you – he cannot overcome. It’s another level for him, for which he isn’t ready. I believe you shouldn’t wait till he’s ready, if he isn’t willing to go to therapy.

    In my case I may be allowing my intuition to lead me into a relationship that is uncertain as for the moment it eases a larger anxiety, a fear of being without him.

    Yes, and because fear is behind it, it might not even be your intuition. It’s the fear of losing him.

    In your earlier posts you expressed that you believe you’re soul mates, that being with him is different, that you feel compelled to stay with him and keep trying, in spite of all the difficulties. Actually this can happen when our soul (and our inner child) recognizes the opportunity to heal a childhood wound. You once said you’ve been attracted to men who remind you of your father (“My dad was very loving with me but passed in my early 20s. He was also a highly depressed/OCD sufferer. And I have sought out men like him for some time…”)

    So you’re aware of that inclination of yours. We get attracted to people who remind us of our parents, so we can finally get the love we haven’t received in childhood. If your father wasn’t emotionally available to you, there’s a very high chance that you’ll seek out similar men and try to make them love you and be emotionally responsive to you. Perhaps this man reminds you the most of your father. And perhaps that’s why the longing and the willingness to make the relationship work is stronger than in your previous relationships. And also, why you now don’t feel excited about dating other men…

    I wonder if I should try again for the sake of my sanity and he says he thinks I will find someone better than him,

    I think the most important at this point would be that you work on that childhood wound, before seeking another relationship. And it appears to me that the time is ripe now for you to take a look at that wound.

    #376908
    Michelle
    Participant

    TeaK, thanks for that latest post. I do think I look for men like my father but my father weirdly enough was extremely emotionally available, yet he wasn’t willing to work on his depression or his OCD. And this affected things for my mother long before I knew about it and eventually my brother. So it could be that sticking around for men in my life that are like him is like trying to help them in a way that I wanted to help my dad with his issues. I got old enough and did point them out to my dad and he would be highly defensive and say “where do you come up with this stuff, you’re only 13?”

    It could also be why these men ultimately treat me well, despite their issues, because my dad was very kind.

     

    But I also recognize the limits of trying to help or heal someone else, so I’m not sure that is my true wound, it might be more that I am looking for love that my mother was not able to give at a young age, though our relationship now is very different. She says I love you often and offers me a lot of emotional support. I really don’t know why I stay despite the lack of long term direction. In the past like I said I have been willing to leave men who were disinterested in a future quite easily. This one may be harder because he satisfies everything else, checks all other boxes. I don’t even want to really kiss another man. We still have a very passionate relationship even after a year and a half of seeing each other. It’s funny though he doesn’t say his gut tells him no about me, he just says hes lacking the feeling he thinks is supposed to be there. But maybe tomato tomado. Despite everything I have some stupid voice that tells me we’re tied together and it will be okay. It’s a voice beyond reason, and wishful thinking. It comes during meditation, similar to when I broke up with an ex and my mind said “bullshit he doesn’t love you, wait another month”. That ex took back everything he said a month later and wanted to try again, once I told him I was leaving. I was so serene post breakup that it made him realize he’d said everything in haste. We were together for another row years and I left him due to his depression.

    This guy says he’s disinterested in a future and yet his actions completely contradict it, so it’s is hard to come to terms with what he says. I’m trying. Trying to see that I could have a different life, tell myself I don’t want someone who doesn’t want me, and I keep coming back to “he doesn’t know what he wants, he’s lying to himself, he needs time”. What an annoying voice. We both might need to leave each other and yet we both want the other to take the reigns. I guess if he dumped me I’d feel more like I had to move on. I’d still feel that he’d have a lot of regret though.

    #376909
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Michelle,

    you’re welcome. I understand that you have an inner feeling that you should stay. And it’s not the voice of fear, but intuition. Well, it’s possible. Perhaps you should stay, but then you’d need to accept that you stay under his conditions – within the confines that he dictates. And you’d need to stop yourself from wanting more from him, from probing about the future, from hoping. Or even if you do hope, you mustn’t share it with him, but be very careful about how you express your feelings. For how long do you think you would be able to do that, without feeling exhausted? Without starting to suffer? And do you believe that you should suffer for love, if that’s in some higher interest?

    #376914
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Michelle,

    you mentioned that your wound might be rather related to your mother than to your father. In one of your older posts you said this about your mother:

    “I just don’t know if I have a pattern of seeking emotionally unavailable people because maybe I too, am emotionally unavailable people. My mother was anxious avoidant in childhood and this was due to her upbringing. She sought out love from her children to fill her voids.”

    I’ve checked the characteristics of the anxious-avoidant pattern, and am copy-pasting them here:

    “Anxious-avoidant attachment types (also known as the “fearful or disorganized type”) bring together the worst of both worlds. Anxious-avoidants are not only afraid of intimacy and commitment, but they distrust and lash out emotionally at anyone who tries to get close to them. Anxious-avoidants often spend much of their time alone and miserable, or in abusive or dysfunctional relationships.

    Anxious-avoidants are low in confidence and less likely to express emotions, preferring to suppress them. However, they can have intense emotional outbursts when under stress. They also don’t tend to seek help when in need due to a distrust of others. This sucks because they are also incapable of sorting through their own issues.

    Anxious-avoidants really get the worst of both worlds. They avoid intimacy not because they prefer to be alone like avoidants. Rather, they avoid intimacy because they are so terrified of its potential to hurt them.”

    It seems your boyfriend fits this description pretty well. This sentence: “They also don’t tend to seek help when in need due to a distrust of others.” – would explain why he doesn’t want to go to therapy.

    If your mother was similar, it could very well be that you’re seeking to get love from her, through your boyfriend…

    What do you think?

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by TeaK.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by TeaK.
    #376917
    RosaliaLuz
    Participant

    Hi Michelle,

    I think you hit the nail on the head earlier when you suggested that fear of being without him is what’s keeping you in your current situation.  Ending things with someone you’re emotional invested in and feel an intense, even fated, connection with can be incredibly difficult.  But remaining in a relationship where there is inequality and imbalance—where those involved have two different levels of commitment, two different sets of expectations surrounding the relationship and two very different communication styles—is much more difficult in the long-run.

    I know there’s always a temptation to adopt the wait and see approach and allow things to “unfold naturally”—sometimes it feels like we’re expecting too much too soon and that we just have to take things day by day.  But I’ve noticed, with myself and friends who have been in similar romantic situations, that we often tell ourselves that when we’re holding out hope that the situation is going to change, that the other person is going to change and they will suddenly, one day, be in a position to [insert here…fulfill our needs/address their psychological wounds/say I love you/figure out what they want/etc]. We’re attached to a specific outcome, whether we realize it or not, and in the meantime that attachment has become detrimental to our current emotional and mental well-being and has prevented us from considering and being open to the wide range of other potential outcomes.  I think truly living in the moment is accepting the current realities of a relationship—the other person does not reciprocate the way I’d like them to.  They have issues that prevent them for being open in the romantic context, and that causes them to doubt and question things all the time, and this is taking a toll on my emotional (and perhaps spiritual) wellbeing.

    You’ve been open and vulnerable with him, found the courage to express what you need, and that has been met with words that suggest that nothing has really changed.  Perhaps he’s made some outward progress—probably because he sensed he needed to take some actions in order to preserve the status quo and maintain a relationship that clearly has benefits for him—but inwardly, it seems he is very much the same person who you began seeing many months ago.  Change and personal growth sometimes unfolds quickly, but when one doesn’t have the drive and initiative to drive the growth oneself, change tends to unfold very slowly, if at all. And I don’t think he’s simply going to become the person who can fulfill your relationship desires  (at least as you’ve relayed them to be) anytime soon.

    When you open yourself up to the present moment, you realize that the universe has given you all the information you need to make an informed decision, based on something much less heavy-feeling and limiting than fear.  When you truly rely on your intuition, and look deep within yourself in a more neutral manner that feels affirming and expansive rather than constrictive, that allows trust and faith and stillness to be the main guide instead of anxiety and constant racing thoughts,  we’re more likely find the answer.  You said you meditate, which is great…I believe it can help cut through all the fuzzy layers of thought and fear and the egoic mind that is constantly working overtime and struggling to find an answer.

    You say that his actions contradict his words, but actually it seems they are very much in tune with his words.  He says he doesn’t know what he wants, that he’s ambivalent—and his actions seem to support that.  He spends time with you and takes you on dates, but doesn’t see you moving in together or having something long-term.  He doesn’t think there’s someone else out there that he’ll meet and fall in love with, but he doesn’t think you’re the one either and was on dating apps until not too long ago.  He acknowledges he has a lot of emotional wounds and mental health issues, including OCD, but hasn’t taken any concrete steps towards addressing those issues.  In a lot of ways, he’s exactly what he represents himself to be—a very confused and ambivalent person.  Do you want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t know what they want?

    I agree that he probably is and will continue to be an important person for you—just probably not in the way you expected him to be. Sometimes we just have to trust that life has its own plan that we can’t quite discern in the moment because we’re just seeing one wave of the larger ocean.  The second that you stop fighting what is, and be open to what could be—which eventually reveals itself once we give it a chance to—the second I think you’ll start to make positive changes that will end this cycle of pain and hurt you seem to be in with him.

    #377039
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Michelle:

    You received excellent input by teaK and by Luz (Rosalia). The reason I am posting today is not because I think you need to receive more input. You already received the best input possible, enough to keep you busy processing for a long time, if you are able and willing.

    The reason I am posting today is to develop my own understanding of what you presented here, in your current thread, and in previous threads, and to share it with any interested member who may be reading this. It will be a very long post, based on many hours of study, and of course, you are welcome, Michelle, to read it- or not. I believe that this medium here can not be helpful enough for you, if at all, and that you need professional, quality psychotherapy as soon possible.

    Your first post on another thread was on January 6, 2020. You were then 32, the guy was 35 and the relationship was four months old (beginning September 2019). The relationship included dates to restaurants, museums, trips, shows, etc., he “paid quite a bit”, showed you affection and the best sex you ever had. You were with his family at Christmas and he was with yours. But you were concerned because he didn’t yet introduce you to his friends, whom he didn’t meet often (“It makes me anxious because I think that a lot of articles preach that meeting the friends is a sign that he’s serious and if you’re not it’s a red flag”), and because you felt that he did not adequately express his emotions verbally.

    Twenty days later, January 26, 2020, the two of you (temporarily) broke up, after he told you the following: “he doesn’t see (marriage) for himself… He said he felt that we were having a good relationship but if he was going to be honest he doesn’t see it long-term… He says he doesn’t likely see himself with anyone long-term and marriage has always just been a fantasy”.

    He also told you on that day, that the two of you were “too different”. When you asked him to elaborate, he told you/ suggested that he finishes his coffee but you don’t, he finishes the food on his plate but you don’t. He does not use plastic bags but you do, etc. You then judged his reasons for thinking that the two of you are too different as petty and ridiculous: “He says we’re too different, but the ways he described were not true values, they were just more petty things… ridiculous things”, and so, you rejected his assertion that the two of you were too different as untrue.

    This rejection was the first time, but not last, that you rejected what he told you as petty or untrue and overall unacceptable. You rejected not only his assertion that the two of you were too different, but everything else that he said that threatened you: that he did not see the relationship as long-term and does not see you as his life partner.

    He told you more on that day: “He said he did love me in a way, but it’s not a one and only kind of love”. You rejected that assertion as well: “None of it makes sense based on his actions and the way he pursued things with me. He acted like a boyfriend.. He was extremely loving and affection and generous with time and everything else”-

    – your reasoning here is faulty: (1) On Jan 27, 2020 (above quote), you wrote that he was extremely loving and affectionate with everything, but on Jan 6, you stated: “he is not vocal about declaring exactly what he wants, nor how he feels.. He seems emotionally reserved”, which is not congruent with being “extremely” loving and affectionate with everything, (2) It is possible and not uncommon that men who are not interested in a long-term relationship treat the woman generously and affectionately nonetheless.

    These two points I just listed, having all the information I have now, more than a year later, lead me to conclude that you regularly display the following cognitive distortions & logical fallacies (errors in reasoning):

    (1) Emotional Reasoning, meaning that when you don’t want something to be true because it feels badly, you reject it as untrue, and when you want something to be true because it feels good, you make-believe that it is true.

    (2) Magnifications and Minimizations: you magnified him being loving and affectionate (“extremely loving and affectionate”), and minimized his statements that the two of you are too different and that he does not see the relationship long-term (“petty things… ridiculous things”).

    (3) Confirmation bias, which is “the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one prior beliefs or values” (Wikipedia), and the practice of such, called Cherry picking: “the practice neglects, overlooks or directly suppresses evidence that could lead to a complete picture” (Wikipedia)

    These and other common cognitive distortions and logical fallacies are forms of denial which is fueled by anxiety. Wikipedia on denial: “In psychoanalytic theory, denial is a defense mechanism in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence.. Initial short-term denial can be a good thing, giving time to adjust to a painful or stressful issue.. But denial can also be harmful; if denial persists and prevents a person from taking appropriate action, it’s a harmful response” (Wikipedia).

    Your denial includes denying to yourself (and to others) your state of mind, misrepresenting yourself as calm and collected, unattached and not at all desperate, zen-like, meditative, calm and serene: “I am okay with him not reciprocating and progressing at his own pace… I have made peace with the impermanence of relationships” (January 2020), “I don’t have any expectations or secret hopes… I don’t wish to win him back” (March 2020), “I feel something coming. I feel like I want to stick around for it and I don’t feel worried anymore. Even if it doesn’t, it’s been a lovely lovely ride” (November 2020), “I no longer wish for the loving in return, I just let what is, BE” (December 2020), “I have no desire to get him to fall in love with me. Being in love would not be the goal of my continued relationship with him… What I am looking for is what we currently have… Is this because I hope we will one day have a fairy tale romance and that I need for him to be the one? No. I don’t believe in fairy tales..  I just don’t see love as something to attain and hold onto desperately. I just feel that it is something fluid that slips in and out of our grasp, dancing around us, reflecting back what is already there” (March 2021).

    The above represents what you may have felt momentarily, here and there, but it was not your dominant, ongoing experience. Here is your dominant, ongoing emotional experience and its origins, in your words: “I quite surely have an anxious attachment style… It’s so hard for me to believe that good could come for me. My life hasn’t played out that way… My mother was anxious avoidant in childhood… My dad.. was.. a highly depressed/ OCD sufferer… I am looking for love that my mother was not able to give at a young age”.

    A clue to how your childhood has been for you is in what you wrote January 7, 2020: “in my past long-term relationships.. I wasn’t being true to myself and my needs. I was just allowing someone to decide what they needed with no real concern about me. Basically I want to be able to be me, without fear of breaking dating rules, or scaring someone off with my emotions”. I will translate this quote to what I imagine was true to your childhood experience (the following are my words): growing up, no one noticed what I needed and wanted. There was no concern for my needs, my wants, my emotions. There was no space for the true me in my parents’ lives.

    This is more of what you wrote about your father: “My dad was very loving with me… was extremely emotionally available…I wanted to help my dad with his issues.. my dad was very kind”-

    – I am sure that your father was at times kind in various ways, but he couldn’t have been “extremely emotionally available” to you, as in one who gave you adequate emotional validation and support, because there is no evidence of it in what you shared about your life experience so far. I believe that you magnified his moments of kindness (see Magnifications,  above), which is what children do because they need to feel safe and loved. If he was adequately emotionally resourceful and available to you, you wouldn’t have had the strong motivation to help him with his issues. Instead, he would have helped you with your issues.

    Let’s look at what you shared about this guy that your thread is about:

    (1) Before you met him: “I remember how I felt before I even met him. I just saw his picture and I thought ‘that’s my one'”- you did not meet him yet, so your evaluation of him as The One was based on a gut feeling following seeing a photo or photos of him and reading his profile on the online dating site.

    (2) When you met him in person: “when I met him in person. I felt safe, and at home”- again, a gut feeling, not based on evidence other than his looks/ sound of his voice, certain mannerisms perhaps.

    (3) After the first date: “I’ve never had a first date where I felt like I was high after. Where I felt so calm and incredibly excited at the same time. And his words on that day matched mine. We both felt it, we both talked about the future”- this experience is described well under the term limerence. Basically, before and upon meeting him, during and after the first date, you were emotionally transported back to certain (infrequent) times in your childhood when you felt “safe, and at home”, feeling “calm and incredibly excited at the same time”, feeling connected to a parent, a parent whose thoughts and words matched yours.

    you were hooked on the guy: “The more I look back on our story, the more fated it seems… I just feel like when I met him he was there all along, so it’s hard to picture a time where I won’t carry him in my heart…He is so woven in the fabric of my psyche, that it’s just too hard to unravel him”-

    – he felt eternal, like a god: “he was there all along”. For a child, a parent is like god: eternal, all powerful, all loving. Having met this guy, you were transported back to your childhood state of mind.

    On January 26, 2020, he told you for the first time that he didn’t see the relationship as long-term, that marriage is a fantasy, that the two of you are too different and that he loved you, “but it’s not a one and only kind of love”. Between February and August, the two of you spent a lot of time together. You wrote in August 2020: “every time I thought we were getting to a different place and that his feelings might be changing, he would tell me he still felt the same and that he didn’t see a future and we couldn’t be together… He keeps saying that he loves me, in a way, but I am not his one and only”.

    In February 2021, you were most optimistic and elated : “We had a lovely Valentine’s Day together.. I also spent a second weekend in a row with his family… So, I decided on some questions I could ask… I came up with the courage and blurted ‘would you even consider living together?’ before I could chicken out. He seemed to respond rather quickly and said… he would think about it. MAJORRR progress. I feel, from him telling me he’d never be with me and didn’t see a future…  It just feels like one giant leap for womankind, everywhere, who deal with men and their commitment issues and have some patience”-

    – but by March 2021, he told you that he doesn’t want to move in with you, and on March 31, 2021 he told you that he does not see you as his life-partner, nor does he see the relationship as long-term. You wrote on that day: “as soon as we make progress, things seem to retreat back to square one… he again told me that he doesn’t see me as a life partner and he thought the relationship would eventually end… he wants to be honest that he doesn’t really see it happening”.

    In March 31, 2021, he told you the same as what he told you on January 26, 2020, and repeatedly in-between these two dates, a year and two months apart.

    But that’s not all he told you on March 31: “He says he’s not looking for other women though and doesn’t expect to find someone else. He wants to continue things the way they’re going and says on one hand maybe he is just messed up in the head and needs to sort through that. He says he can’t see the future and doesn’t know for sure what he wants.  He says he would probably regret it if we ended things now”-

    – he told you that “he wants to be honest” with you and that’s why he told you that he doesn’t see you as his life partner nor does he see the relationship as long-term. On the other hand, he has been encouraging you to hope that the two of you will end up being life partners by stating that (1) he is not looking for other women and does not expect to be with another woman- suggesting that even without a stated commitment, the two  of you might end up together long-term, (2) “he can’t see the future”- suggesting that in the future you may be his life-partner, (3)  “maybe he is just messed up in the head and needs to sort through that”- suggesting that he might undo his messed-up state of mind and see you as his life-partner once his thinking is straight, (4) “(he) doesn’t know for sure what he wants”- suggesting that he may want you as his life partner right now, but is not aware of it yet, and (5) “He says he would probably regret it if we ended things now”- suggesting that if he may not end the relationship now or later because if he would, he’ll regret it.

    By telling you that he does not see you as his life-partner, he achieves the following: you can never complain to him that he led you on. By non-committedly suggesting 1-5 above, he is feeding your hope and serving his need to keep the relationship going as-is, on his terms.

    So, you see, he is not honest after all.

    You wrote a few days ago: “I come from a background of psychology, and I know how multi-dimensional people are”-

    – the guy is multi-dimensional: he suffers from OCD and perhaps from depression, and he fears commitment and he is confined by his fear and he is dishonest, self-serving and selfish.

    anita
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    #377056
    Michelle
    Participant

    Anita, I will respond further to your latest post, and while some of your observations may be true, I feel that your assertions are a little presumptuous, cherry picked and you nor any one else should ever make the assumption that I need serious psychotherapy right now. This latest post is jsut a reminder that maybe I shouldn’t go sharing everything in the internet and I’m inviting the overdissection of things by strangers who only know a small fragment of who I am and how I feel. I also don’t like that you assumed I would get nothing from your post and almost posted it for others, like a case study for other women of what not to do, and who not to follow. I’m not super pleased and not just because of what you said about me. Will respond more later.

    #377057
    Michelle
    Participant

    I do understand that you’re trying to help. And I have appreciated all of your help. I still don’t think I am complete denial (I know, coming from someone you think is in denial), I have been trying to adopt mindfulness and other strategies honestly to sort through the muck of this relation ship. Imagine if we took everything at face value, without any consideration.

    #377058
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Michelle:

    I am sorry that you are displeased with my post.

    Regarding “I also don’t like that you assumed I would get nothing from your post and almost posted if for others”- the reason I mentioned that you may choose to  not read my post is because  you received excellent posts from teaK and Luz before mine, posts that included a whole lot to consider, or re-consider, and I didn’t want you overwhelmed with a third post (my own),  one that is so long.

    The post I sent you, that was my very best understanding. It is okay with me if you disagree with it. My purpose was not, and is not to distress you, nor is it to argue, so accept what you will and reject the rest. I don’t want to distress you further, therefore, unless you ask me to post again in this thread, or in any  thread where you are the original poster, I will not. My best wishes to you!

    anita

     

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by anita.
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