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  • #163786
    wildoceanflower
    Participant

    Hi Dawn, Thank you so much for your kind words..ive been struggling for a really long time..Anita can attest to that :/..its been really tough for me. I can only be thankful for this to be able to talk about it. I dont want to be a victim but i fell into that very very familiar female trap of being too patient, too nice and devoted. I had my precious time wasted by a callous man who has all the time in the world.

    Its tough to explain to people who have kids, that being without is probably harder. I am effectively excluded from life. There are some women who will not talk to me because they dont think they should bother, there are some who think i am not a serious adult because i havent had kids…some of them behave more childish than their teenagers! there are some who feel embarrassed to invite me to things because they are bringing their kids..and its kind of true, we are in different tribes. There are the people who dismiss my authority about any subject by asking if i have children, as if..if i hadnt, i have lived half a life….would they guess i CAN have kids? because if you said that to someone who couldnt it would seem pretty mean spirited right?…Its a club, and all those inside are allowed to moan about how their kids test them and make life difficult, and yet have wonderful moments where their kids cheer them up..brighten up their day, their ego is elevated by the achievements and compliments the kids get, they feel a real purpose to their life no matter what happens, and of course ultimately its being part of a family unit…i dont have that.

    I dont think i would make an unhappy person if i wasnt constantly trampled on. I was devoted to my boyfriend and always happy to be around him and i would probably have been devoted to my kids.  Its just my bad fortune that has sent me this way..in fact, i hear my ex is the one who is unhappy again but thats another personality issue. You can’t fill a void in your heart by constantly looking for new women when the one you are with doesnt do everything you want.

    Anita, i think you could be right in that people make a guess that i must be angry and dont want to talk to them. I suppose it could also have a lot to do with my misfortune, who wants to hang out with a loser when life is tough enough? I try to be friendly but if you dont have a big bubbly personality and popularity you can forget it. I guess the only good thing about getting older is that you start to care less. The pain and sadness is something i can deal with on my own, the last thing i would do is use other people to avoid my issues, that is what my ex does.

    #163840
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear wildoceanflower:

    Maybe the other people you perceive to be happy, fortunate; winners, maybe they are not these things if they “are allowed to moan about how their kids test them and make life difficult..in fact, i hear my ex is the one who is unhappy again…”

    You believe that you are “a loser”- having this belief day in and day out is very unfortunate. It makes peace of mind and contentment impossible.  This is making me think this very moment: I don’t have children and I  believe that makes me a winner! Can you imagine that? I believe it makes me a winner because I didn’t bring innocent life into this world where there is so much pain.

    anita

    #163928
    wildoceanflower
    Participant

    Hi Dawn R, i really appreciate your comments…i am doing my best to create the boundaries..like you said its difficult and i have had a really tough year this year and last. I am trying to find out what I want rather than what others want me to want, if that makes sense.

    Hi Anita,

    I had two really opposing days on the weekend. On saturday i went with a friend to a peaceful protest against oil drilling, it was amazingly calm and a really positive lovely thing to be part of.  Unusually there was very little negative to experience apart from standing out from the usual crowd on the beach the actual protest was incredibly inclusive and kind…i really saw a different side to humanity.

    On Sunday, i met with my parents and had somewhat the opposite experience..we were supposed to go to an event, it was cancelled last minute and they didnt know (lately with them..everything seems to go wrong?) so we ended up going to a restaurant..where my mom started conversation by several negative statements (such as: did you hear about that girl that died?) this is very normal for her, then she asked my dad to give her some “compliments” about a book she has written, she then told me some unwelcome news about my ex…which hurt me a lot because i am doing my best to ignore my feelings for him.  Friends of theirs know my ex…and he had told them he hoped he could be friends….with my parents! So you can imagine how i felt.

    What did my mom think that would achieve to tell me that? that SHE was special? beause thats how it really came across. i know she thought she was being supportive, saying he could go screw himself but really how it came out was ” he´s desperate to be my friend!”. There is something a little sick (competitive) about this..she has also claimed to me once that my sister´s partner had kissed her on the mouth when they visited them, that it came out of nowhere. I was really taken aback when she said that because that was a little far out, she had already bragged about previous partners being “inappropriate” with her. It didnt seem too likely but i dont know my sisters partner well, i know he was trying to be boyfriend in law nr 1 but that´s too far!! Who is telling the truth!?

    is she making it all into a big drama? I think she likes to show off that she is wanted. To keep attention on her.

    But to intentionally hurt me…i find it too much to take anymore.. i dont have the backing of another family member since my dad is oblivious to my mothers behaviour..and my sister is now pregnant so wants the “pretend” picture more than ever right now.

    I guess this is just usual womens´issues….men look away!! you have it so easy!

     

    #164046
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear wildoceanflower:

    You wrote: “I find it too much to take anymore”- but you keep taking it.

    You wrote that you don’t have “the backing of another family member”- unlikely you ever do get the backing of another family member.

    Hope is only in you, in that individual, born-to-be-free essence of a wild ocean flower, yet to shake herself free from the same-old-same-old-muck of your original family.

    anita

    #164154
    wildoceanflower
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    I feel like i am too messed up to get over everything. I start to write one thing and end up wiping it and writing something else. We are told to follow our heart..my heart desperately wants my ex to accept and love me as an equal..thats impossible. But my mind just isnt able to get over it. My parents invited me out..i didnt really want to go but felt it would be the right thing to do..i got blindsided again. I feel that my mother doesnt realise what she does. I think she doesnt seem to see the sensitivity in the things she says…because its not happening to her. Thats the only way i can explain it. But i felt like i had been stabbed in the heart again.

    I guess that on a core level, we all know our own mind very well. Even if we try to trick ourselves and others into believing everything is fine or that we like certain things, we know what makes us truly happy. But very few people are able to pursue it without restraints. Thats how i feel.

    I think i am mostly limited by my personality which by nature is reserved, quiet, embarrassed easily, high anxiety. I often attract bad behaviour from people, clients who are demanding or angry, friends and boyfriends who are bullying or abusive, strangers who are jealous and competitive. I can say that i see that now because i have reached an age to be able to look back and see the patterns. I cant relate to people who want to hurt or punish others but it seems that life favors them.

    I still have no idea why people react to me so strongly. I am very sensitive. I loved my boyfriend because he was the opposite and was able to take me out of myself…which i think i need to stay grounded instead of wallowing in the depths of my mind. When he said things to me that were critical..i could see his point of view but like my mom, he didnt handle it too well in return. I have the tendency to drag others down when i am in low energy…when i need a lot of space and they dont understand ..they then feel rejected..its a vicious cycle and leaves me hating myself instead of thinking that they need to adapt.

    I hate not knowing what the truth is. My ex lied to me and was developing a new relationship with someone else who was also manipulative as she clearly knew what she was doing to split us up and clearly gave him an ultimatum. The two of them may be better suited but the circumstances are nasty. I have been left out in the cold and have no idea about his life anymore, we dont share any friends. So the only thing i have is starsigns and i watch them obsessively to try and find answers…they give me false hope, then drop me, then pick me up again. Its like an addiction i have developed without anything or anyone else to distract me. I seem to be endlessly able to obsess and i wish i could forget.

    At the moment i dont see much future for myself. I have managed to pull myself out of financial danger..which was a burden on top of the break up. But as for social life i have not got any bright ideas. Instead of panicking too much i have just chosen to accept the solitude being grateful i am not worse off. I know if i compare my life to some women they would be horrified at how little i have gotten out of life but i am just grateful i am ok..im still very scarred by my experiences, for instance this morning i woke up from a nightmare and found it was reality. So right now i just hope i can find somewhere to live where i will be able to get a dog, at least to have some company.

     

     

     

    #164192
    Mary899
    Participant

     

     

    Let me start by saying how much I love your username…it’s so unique and beautiful.

     

    I know what you’re going through. Like, literary. As I was reading your posts I felt a strange sense of identification. I, too, was raised by, to use a euphemism, an inconsiderate mother. When I was old enough to make my own life decisions I decided I no longer wanted the same patterns that I had experienced in my relationship with my mom to repeat themselves. If my mom couldn’t appreciate me for who I was, perhaps other people could. I decided to be as kind, empathic, and self sacrificing as I could. After all, nobody  could bring themselves to treat someone that nice poorly, right?

     

    Wrong.

     

    My “niceness” resulted in me attracting a couple of people who, at the beginning of our relationship, put me on a pedestal. At first they all complimented my kindness, innocence, generosity, honesty, you name it.  At the same time, however, they judged, gosspiped about,  and condemned others in the most brutal way for the most childish reasons. I used to feel both good and worried at the same time…I felt good about how I had “earned” the love of such difficult people…deep down, however, I could feel that sth wasn’t right.

     

    And it wasn’t. In fact, a lot of things weren’t. The same old pattern with mom was at its work and I didn’t know that at the time. I soon realized that I was going out of my way to please these people, to keep things cool by apologizing even when I was accused of sth that I hadn’t done. And you know, all along the way I though there was sth wrong with ME, not them. Perhaps if could learn to be more forgiving, more accepting, more generous, things would work out somehow.

     

    They didn’t. There came a point when I had had enough. I quit playing the game as decently as possible. I stepped out.

     

    It didn’t end up as easily as that however. The consequences were disastrous. I lost “friends”, I had my reputation as an honest, kind and considerate person smeared, I was humiliated, threatened, backstabbed, and slandered. I was shattered to pieces, both within and without.

     

    I couldn’t eat, sleep,  or enjoy life the way I used to. First my mom, and now this. Every single thing seemed beyond helpless. As I still live with my parents, I had my mom to constantly confirm all my doubts, saying I had brought  all of this upon myself. I wondered if I could ever make my way out of this dark, deep, scary hole.

     

    The thing is, although I can’t claim I’ve reached at the top, I know I’m on the right track, and you will be too.

     

    The first thing I want you to know is that no matter what you’ve been said, or currently believe, no matter how bleak things may seem right now in your life,  YOU ARE NOT A LOSER. The qualities that you listed such as generosity, kindness, empathy, niceness, and the willingness to own up to your mistakes…none of them is a sign of weakness. In fact, quite the opposite is true. They are rare, beautiful, and a sign of strength and bravery. Just like any other valuable asset, however, they have to be protected and used with care, saved only for those who are worthy. And who do you think deserves these gifts the most? That’s it, you. You say you are willing to have children so that you can feel a sense of purpose in your life, before the right time for that arrives, how about giving your own inner child a chance? How about trying to make peace with your little self, to give her all the things that your mother wasn’t able to give her, namely, and most importantly, unconditional love?

     

    If we’re able to love and respect ourselves unconditionally, regardless of our past (and future) mistakes and regardless of our imperfections, things will start to work themselves out in one way or another. This doesn’t mean that other people will suddenly start behaving the way we want them to. It means that we respect ourselves enough to distinguish between what is healthy and what is not, and be willing to let go of what is not without feeling pain, guilt, feeling of being undesirable and unworthy. You have to believe that your worth is not determined by your relationships, your achievements in life or even you being a nice, caring person. You deserve love and respect simply because you exist.

     

    The beautiful thing about truly believing in this is that once we love and respect ourselves enough, we no longer settle for and hang on to crappy relationships. We don’t beg for love from unhealthy people who have let us down and smashed us again and again. We believe that we deserve more, and we will get more. This is not to say that we should sit around waiting for people to have let out down to change and finally return all of our favors, or at least don’t bite the hand that has fed them. That’ll not happen (Trust me, I have tested that and failed miserably), and we’ll remain unhappy and dissatisfied. What it means is that as we know that we deserve more, we’ll start to let healthier, more stable people in our lives…people who love us for who we are and not for what we do for them. People who we don’t have to “earn” their love by going out of our way to please them.

     

    People like ourselves.

     

    I wish all the best for you on your journey. It can be a marvelous one, but only if you believe that you deserve it.

     

    Mary

    #164194
    Mary899
    Participant

     

    Dear wildoceanflower:

    Let me start by saying how much I love your username…it’s so unique and beautiful.

     

    I know what you’re going through. Like, literary. As I was reading your posts I felt a strange sense of identification. I, too, was raised by, to use a euphemism, an inconsiderate mother. When I was old enough to make my own life decisions I decided I no longer wanted the same patterns that I had experienced in my relationship with my mom to repeat themselves. If my mom couldn’t appreciate me for who I was, perhaps other people could. I decided to be as kind, empathic, and self sacrificing as I could. After all, nobody  could bring themselves to treat someone that nice poorly, right?

     

    Wrong.

     

    My “niceness” resulted in me attracting a couple of people who, at the beginning of our relationship, put me on a pedestal. At first they all complimented my kindness, innocence, generosity, honesty, you name it.  At the same time, however, they judged, gosspiped about,  and condemned others in the most brutal way for the most childish reasons. I used to feel both good and worried at the same time…I felt good about how I had “earned” the love of such difficult people…deep down, however, I could feel that sth wasn’t right.

     

    And it wasn’t. In fact, a lot of things weren’t. The same old pattern with mom was at its work and I didn’t know that at the time. I soon realized that I was going out of my way to please these people, to keep things cool by apologizing even when I was accused of sth that I hadn’t done. And you know, all along the way I though there was sth wrong with ME, not them. Perhaps if could learn to be more forgiving, more accepting, more generous, things would work out somehow.

     

    They didn’t. There came a point when I had had enough. I quit playing the game as decently as possible. I stepped out.

     

    It didn’t end up as easily as that however. The consequences were disastrous. I lost “friends”, I had my reputation as an honest, kind and considerate person smeared, I was humiliated, threatened, backstabbed, and slandered. I was shattered to pieces, both within and without.

     

    I couldn’t eat, sleep,  or enjoy life the way I used to. First my mom, and now this. Every single thing seemed beyond helpless. As I still live with my parents, I had my mom to constantly confirm all my doubts, saying I had brought  all of this upon myself. I wondered if I could ever make my way out of this dark, deep, scary hole.

     

    The thing is, although I can’t claim I’ve reached at the top, I know I’m on the right track, and you will be too.

     

    The first thing I want you to know is that no matter what you’ve been said, or currently believe, no matter how bleak things may seem right now in your life,  YOU ARE NOT A LOSER. The qualities that you listed such as generosity, kindness, empathy, niceness, and the willingness to own up to your mistakes…none of them is a sign of weakness. In fact, quite the opposite is true. They are rare, beautiful, and a sign of strength and bravery. Just like any other valuable asset, however, they have to be protected and used with care, saved only for those who are worthy. And who do you think deserves these gifts the most? That’s it, you. You say you are willing to have children so that you can feel a sense of purpose in your life, before the right time for that arrives, how about giving your own inner child a chance? How about trying to make peace with your little self, to give her all the things that your mother wasn’t able to give her, namely, and most importantly, unconditional love?

     

    If we’re able to love and respect ourselves unconditionally, regardless of our past (and future) mistakes and regardless of our imperfections, things will start to work themselves out in one way or another. This doesn’t mean that other people will suddenly start behaving the way we want them to. It means that we respect ourselves enough to distinguish between what is healthy and what is not, and be willing to let go of what is not without feeling pain, guilt, feeling of being undesirable and unworthy. You have to believe that your worth is not determined by your relationships, your achievements in life or even you being a nice, caring person. You deserve love and respect simply because you exist.

     

    The beautiful thing about truly believing in this is that once we love and respect ourselves enough, we no longer settle for and hang on to crappy relationships. We don’t beg for love from unhealthy people who have let us down and smashed us again and again. We believe that we deserve more, and we will get more. This is not to say that we should sit around waiting for people to have let out down to change and finally return all of our favors, or at least don’t bite the hand that has fed them. That’ll not happen (Trust me, I have tested that and failed miserably), and we’ll remain unhappy and dissatisfied. What it means is that as we know that we deserve more, we’ll start to let healthier, more stable people in our lives…people who love us for who we are and not for what we do for them. People who we don’t have to “earn” their love by going out of our way to please them.

     

    People like ourselves.

     

    I wish all the best for you on your journey. It can be a marvelous one, but only if you believe that you deserve it.

     

    Mary

    #164234
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear wildoceanflower:

    You wrote: “I hate not knowing what the truth is”- well you know the truth in what you stated regarding your mother: “I think she doesnt seem to see the sensitivity in the things she says…because its not happening to her. Thats the only way i can explain it”-

    That is the only way I can explain it as well. Very simply and truly stated.

    This means she didn’t and doesn’t see you; she doesn’t look to see what is happening to you, in you. That makes you invisible. She doesn’t see you. And then, you don’t see yourself.

    And then, here I am, corresponding here with you, and I can see you. Can you imagine that, I never saw you in person, but I can see you.

    anita

    #164464
    wildoceanflower
    Participant

    Hi Mary899, thank you so much for your kind words and encouragement. There have been 2 times that i had to return home to my parents and live with them, both times of course after a breakup that left me homeless and without enough to support myself. I give myself all up till the end..they walk away as if nothing happened. This time i thankfully had my apartment, my job, friends…but it has been even more painful than the last time. I am really to a point where…i know i cant do that again, i cant trust some guy just because he said so. He has to prove it. But i dont know if i can ever ever let someone get close to me again after this…

     

    #164466
    wildoceanflower
    Participant

    Hi Anita, the truth i meant from my ex…i really really need him to own up to what he did to me. Its very important. To clear both of our lives.

    I read something about karma yesterday that completely agreed with this. If he can´t forgive me, if i can´t forgive him…then we are locked in this situation forever..we will stay like that forever and never really be released from each other. If he loves her, then surely he doesnt want to have this pain hanging over him?? surely he wants to make good with someone he hurt so badly? So that in return, he can live freely and happily with the one he loves.

    And if they really are about LOVE in the purest sense..they wouldnt want me to suffer? or am i being too naive? Am i too stupid about kindness and happiness being about something more than money and a roof over your head? because i know that i can believe it, but i cant make others believe it too.

    No matter though Anita, i am suffering more than ever because i know that i love him and want him to be happy. That suffering will never go, knowing that i care and that he doesnt..despite me reaching out he just has hate. That is keeping us ALL in limbo.

     

    #164468
    wildoceanflower
    Participant

    Hi Anita, I wanted to add that i felt that you had had a similar experience with your mom and that there was something in this that resonated with you. I appreciate that you can see that side to it because for me….if i complain,..i feel such guilt, because that is the conditioning of such parents.

    I STILL feel that really i am the bad person and i do know why…my dad. He had a forceful controlling mother and has replaced her with a forceful wife. He makes me feel bad if i complain to my mother…because he would feel bad. Its a sickness inherited. The abuse continues because he is not brave enough…and my boyfriends were also not brave enough…so what do we make of that

    #164566
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear wildoceanflower:

    You wrote:  “i really really need him to own up to what he did to me. Its very important. To clear both of our lives”-

    I don’t think he needs clearing his life. I don’t think he is going to own up to what you want him to own up to. No different from your mother not having a need or motivation to clear up her life or own up to anything. So the truth I mentioned in my last post to you applies to your ex as well as to your mother. And to your father.

    You wrote: “That is keeping us ALL in limbo”- it keeps you in limbo, in that muck I mentioned before, the wild ocean flower being stuck in the muck instead of flowing in the clear ocean.

    You are waiting for what is not going to happen- people around you owning up for their parts in your hurt and dysfunction. Waiting and reading signs in the stars, reading about karma. Karma, like the concept of heaven and hell, extends to future lives/ after death because in this life there is no justice, and what goes around doesn’t come around to the same people. When person A hurts person B, person B hurts person C and person A may not experience the karma of his actions, not in one lifetime.

    (I don’t believe in future lifetimes, reincarnation, heaven and hell).

    I see you as stuck-in-the-muck of original family dysfunction, extended to an ex boyfriend experience, being obsessed with the latter, waiting… waiting.

    anita

    #164796
    wildoceanflower
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    You are right about me being invisible. My parents cant wait for me to finish a story before they are telling me theirs. Friends take me for granted when i initially show i am easygoing. I know i give myself a harder time than anyone ever could but i guess i am not especially cherished. My ex urged me to do more for others, for charity. I felt drained from helping him. I would get to his house and he would say “before you sit down can you ABC and D”. I was a secretary, assistant in sales, marketing and purchasing, cleaner, not so much a cook (much criticised) and caretaker for him. In return, i obviously “needed to work on myself and spirituality”.

    I know that he probably regrets his actions…in the heat of anger and his desire to chase after another woman (and thus, quickly get rid of me), i feel that now the passion is over..and the daily grind is present, he is probably starting with the doubts.

    I recently decided to email him, to give him some stuff i was getting rid of. And he continues to blame me for his actions. He said the word BETRAYAL. Which i thought was very apt as that is exactly how i rightfully feel! At the same time, starsigns i have read are saying there is another person in denial about their actions, unable to confess and that they will miss an opportunity in love..this is very true. I cant fight this anymore, Its probably why he always had such trouble sleeping.

    My friend that supported me through the first months of the breakup and basically got me out of the house, listened to my story..had admitted her own pain of still being in love with a guy that broke her heart about 4 years ago with a similar horrible betrayal, …she concentrates all her attention and love on her children and on getting by so she has something to focus on but suffers because she dreams of being with him and her pride wont let her tell him that because of the action he made….it seems like a curse.

    This is the person i fell out with because although she helped me personally, at work she was becoming unbearably bossy and demanding. I felt we had enough friendship that i could tell her enough was enough when once again she overstepped and knew it..but in return she froze me out of her life. Once again, i lost someone close to me!!! in the space of 3 months. BETRAYAL

     

    I know in all this talk, i was hoping i could somehow find a way out of this pain…it seems any actions i take just go wrong so i stopped trying. I dont have much of a life. But in painful irony my starsigns say i am meeting the love of my life this month, getting married, that its possibly an ex, that i have come into my own awareness etc. I seem to be endlessly fascinated to hear more and more. Im not interested in anything else.

    There is nothing to enjoy. I miss being with my ex so much and i dont have the opportunity to meet the right people for me. I dont understand why i have had such a hard time, that all the times i have tried have not worked out. I see how it goes for others…within months they are dating again, meeting new people…fate has made sure there was no one around for me to meet, that i had no money to do anything. everything i tried was a brick wall. For months and months i looked for a dog to adopt so i could have company but eventually gave up looking when none of them were ok for an apartment. I tried starting tennis but it was too expensive, i looked at gyms and it was the same. I looked for groups i could join, there were none in the hours i had free. I went out a couple of times with my friend to bars..it was so horrible to be there again, i hated it…and being older i felt out of place. I have TRIED.

    Now i am selling my apartment and moving out (also in the starsigns). i dont know what my future will be..i have no one, i am getting rid of a lot of things…i just want emptiness to match how i feel. When i met my ex i was renting, i only had boxes as side tables and he said it was pathetic. I finally finally got my first apartment..i moved in and he broke up with me, i felt like he was jealous i had done so well. i have really. its the only thing in my life that went well and i have to leave it…so it will again be just pain for me and leaving. Maybe i have to accept that i live in pain as a Scorpio? we are always told we are too deep, too intense. But i get attached and it hurts to let go.

     

    #164810
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear willdoceanflower:

    You wrote: “You are right about me being invisible”- well, you are visible here:

    You wrote that your parents can’t wait for you to finish a story, so that they can tell their story.  You don’t feel cherished by neither parents nor friends. You feel taken for granted. You wrote that in the relationship with your ex you felt drained from helping him as his secretary, assistant in sales, marketing and purchasing, and as cleaner.

    You wrote that he continues to blame you. He blames you for betraying him while you feel that he betrayed you. You also feel that a friend betrayed you, the friend who shared with you about her failed relationship. You told her that she was becoming unbearably bossy and demanding at work and in return she froze you out of her life.

    The starsigns, something you are fascinated with and follow closely, tell you that you will be meeting the love of your life this month, August, get married, possibly to an ex

    You wrote that there is nothing you enjoy, that you miss your ex so much, that you tried to adopt a dog, starting tennis, joining gyms, groups, bars, but “everything i tried was a brick wall”.

    anita

    #164984
    wildoceanflower
    Participant

    Hi Anita, i understand…i will stop posting because i have taken up a lot of your time.

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