Dear Linarra:

“I am uninterested in having such exchanges with men… I really don’t want to fall into that kind of trap, really, if I can help it“- I wasn’t interested in such exchanges either, but I didn’t know there was any kind of a different exchange. I only knew the one kind: the one my mother trapped me in, “that kind of trap” I was born into.

“(I)… worry, for myself and the future. I worry about what my life is going to be if I am unable to find a solution and to heal“- without healing.. your life would be.. just like it is now, I am guessing, no?

“I still do not intend to end our communication. Unless you want me to end it, of course“- it didn’t cross my mind,  for me to suggest an end to our communication, not at all!

“In the short term, the possibility of being troublesome for you is still more worrying (my usual kind of worry though)“- you are not trouble to me, or for me, no trouble, truly. You are helping me understand me and my mind/ heart/ life better, so thank you!

“And the fear of developing an emotional attachment if the conversation goes on is another thing I’m dealing with“- I think that you having an emotional attachment to me will be good for you, not bad for you.

“what I don’t know is… how to deal with the anxiety that comes with feeling some kind of connection with good people, while being who am I right now and being tight to such a rotten place. In doubt, I tend to consider backing off, but I only do so if I notice my presence is undesired or bad for the other person“-

– 1) I desire your presence in my life, and I would like sometime to exchange emails and talk on the phone, if you wanted that too. For now I am fine with the current communication here, 2) Your presence is good for me because like I wrote above, you are helping me significantly, 3) The connection you feel to a good person (and I am glad that I think of myself as a good person!!!), like I said, I think that it is and will be good for you. If I thought otherwise, I wouldn’t want to continue our connection: it must be a Win-Win connection. Unlike the Win-Lose connection I had with my mother: a Win for her (that intoxicating feeling of power), and a Lose for me (excruciating powerlessness).

“being abused doesn’t justify becoming an abuser. It is an explanation, but it doesn’t mean it should be okay“- of course it is not okay: it is never okay for a parent to abuse her position of power over her child to terribly hurt and harm her child.

I wrote to you: “Now, I am thinking: Linarra may not like me comparing her mother to a Nazi guard, and you answered: “Well, I won’t protect her from that comparison. She can be quite racist and once, when we were fighting her over one of her racist comments by comparing her to Nazis, she answered with a provoking ‘Hail Hitler!’“- wow! My goodness..

“I think I was uncomfortable with the idea my mother was a bad mother for my half-siblings while being an alright mother for her new children. But I was wrong… The perceived difference was because I wanted to believe my mother was good for my siblings and I, because we were young and needed her. My brain couldn’t deal with the possibility she was bad and couldn’t change“-

– if your brain now can see this possibility as the reality that it is.. if you see reality for what it is, your mind, your heart and your life will be better for this.

anita

• This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by .

Dear Linarra:

The way I answer your posts is, as you know, part by part, taking my time, letting the feelings settle, patiently making sense of things:

“I prefer to answer ahead than to risk replying with a delay that could make you wonder if I was bothered with anything you said. I’m warning you so you know you don’t have to rush your reply“-

– you cared that I will not feel troubled about you not replying to me, and then you cared that I will feel pressure to respond to you in a rushed manner. I don’t think I received quite such caring on tiny buddha, this is a unique/ exceptional experience for me.

“Very understandable, we rarely get a say whether or not we fall into traps we’re born into… my mother.. has been insulting any of her daughters for leaving with a man and relying on a man,  even those who didn’t leave yet! I always wanted to make her shut up on that because she was the one making the environment so terrible anyone could be tempted to fall into another trap for as long it isn’t hers“-

– This is exactly my experience, you said it just like it was for me: I preferred to “fall into another trap for as long as it isn’t hers”- no trap felt close to being as bad as being in her trap. Being in other traps, as humiliating as they were- felt like a welcomed breaks from being in her trap.

Your mother/  my mother not wanting us to be “relying on a man” is their dealing with potential competition over who owns us.

“I am not happy with this life, of course. The idea I will stay in this time loop isn’t very good for my mental health. I can only be patient if there’s hope of evolution for me“-

– I see hope for you but I wouldn’t say: you can do it, Linarra! You can do it, I know you have it in you.. etc. This cheerleading is not good for you or for anyone in your position, I believe, because it is likely to create pressure in you, you thinking something like: well, if I can do it.. why don’t I? What’s wrong with me?

It really is impossible for me (or for anyone) to know that you can or cannot live away and independently from your mother: the proof will be in the pudding, as the saying goes: if you live away and independently from your mother long enough- then you will know that it is possible for you.

I wrote to you yesterday: “you are helping me understand me and my mind/ heart/ life better, so thank you!”, and you answered: “That’s good, I’m happy“-

I want to add to my point about you helping me something that I thought about after our exchange yesterday, while I was walking on the treadmill. It is regarding the reason I thought that you will choose to no longer communicate with me, and that was that I mentioned to you my experience with exchanges with men. I thought that you will be disgusted by me. Walking on the treadmill, I thought: what if Linarra had this shame that I have, in regard to such exchanges, will I tell her: shame on you!

And I answered myself: no, I wouldn’t, while feeling empathy for you, and extra empathy at the idea of you experiencing what I did, that humiliation with men. Next, I thought to myself: maybe I don’t have to live with this shame anymore. If Linarra does not deserve this (or any other) shame, why do I?

And for the first time in my life, I considered that maybe I do not have to keep living with that shame.

So, you see how you are helping me?

I wrote to you: “I think that you having an emotional attachment to me will be good for you, not bad for you”, and you answered: “I think so too, even if I am anxious about it“- I cannot tell you how crucial it is for me to not betray your trust in me. If I did so, I will be betraying my trust in me and in everything I value most highly.

“I am comfortable at the idea of exchanging email with you, though I am unsure how to do it on this forum without keeping the information public..  I feel safe with you but with the amount of information that has been shared on this thread I’m a bit uncomfortable letting also my mail there“-

– I am interested in continuing our communication here because it may be helpful to other members reading it, silent members that are following our communication. So, I am not interested at this time to transfer our communication to private email. It is a good idea to exchange emails in case this website is no longer available for us, and of course, for the purpose of talking on the phone. There is a way to exchange emails without the email remaining on records here and I have done it already. But no rush in doing so.

The way to do it is: we agree to do it at a particular time, then one of us submits a post with the email address, the other copies it to paper, and the other clicks “Edit”, and deletes the email address. It needs to be done within the 5 minutes or so that the Edit feature is available after each post is submitted. I have never given my email address, it was always the other member that has done so, but I am willing to make an exception for you and post my email for you to copy. But like I said, no need to rush. It is just an idea to get used to, at this point.

“For the phone calls, I’m more nervous about that. Both because it takes a while for me to get used to them with a new person and because I am insecure about my ability to have a clear english pronunciation, but we’ll see. If I can overcome my anxiety, why not“-

– I will so enjoy hearing your French accent. But like I wrote above, there is absolutely no rush, it is an idea to get used to- or not, a possibility, something you may grow to like later.

“I’m really glad because I wouldn’t be able to be comfortable if it weren’t a Win-Win connection”- if I thought that I was capable enough and saintly enough to help anyone through an extended communication over time- without being helped at the same time- that would make me either too altruistic or too arrogant for my own good (and in so being, not helpful at all).

“I think you are a good person too” – yesterday I referred to myself in my post as a good person. I don’t think I ever did that. Later on the treadmill I perceived not feeling ashamed anymore.. now I see the connection.

“ And I agree it could be good for me. Though, since I’m always worried, I might be checking regularly if things are still Win-Win for you“- you are welcome to check regularly, but I think that I will let you know every time I  become aware that you are helping me, just as I did in this post.

“I’m so glad you slept so well last night!! And it’s sweet you kept your word“- you noticed that it was important for me to keep my word. You noticed. Last night I was up for a long while but I went back to sleep and was up shortly before 7, good thing!

“I wanted to warn you the three following days (maybe more?) my schedule and internet connection will be unpredictable so I am unsure about my ability to reply. It is because my high school friends are back in the area for this week and they planned for us to go out a lot. I’m pretty sure I will have some spare time to think of you, but unsure about the possibility to reply. Just so you don’t worry!“-

– Thank you for the warning. Similarly and independently of your warning, I thought only yesterday about letting you know that sometimes I lose the internet, if happens quiet often and it can last for a long time when I lose electricity.

I am okay with you not posting for a while, and hope that you experience more calm and meaning, and hopefully some joy being out with your high school friends!

anita

Dear Linarra:

You called me “sweet Anita!”- it makes me smile, but more than smile: I felt a chill, a sudden cold.. obviously some emotion rushing, making me feel chilly. A good emotion though. I read your wonderful post and it is indeed wonderful to me. I will reply tomorrow, no need to rush because for one, it is 11 pm your time and like you wrote, you should get to bed.

I feel like saying good night sweet Linarra, but that’s a bit tacky, maybe, copying your words… well, let me gather myself for a moment, see what comes naturally: good night, sweet Linarra!

anita

Dear Linarra:

“I hope you’re sleeping well tonight“, you posted at 1:06 am, my time. I was awake last night, maybe at about 1 am,  and your words crossed my mind: “I am glad that insomnia didn’t win” (quote from my memory, not sure these are the exact words), and I thought: maybe I can make it so that insomnia doesn’t win again, and..  I fell asleep again. I woke up at 5 am. Not too bad. How is your sleep these days?

Yesterday, you wrote to me: “Your comfort is important“- I want to reciprocate this: your comfort is important too!

“Often, well-intended words come with pressure and unfortunately, I don’t do well under pressure“- when it comes to improving one’s mental health, no one works well under pressure. Cheer leading/ pressure can work for a runner in a race- that’s because running is a short-term, physical task, but emotional healing is always a long, long-term mental task. Gentleness and patience is always the key to emotional healing/ improving one’s mental health, not pressure.

“I am grateful you are willing to talk with me no matter the outcome, it is a relief from my usual worries“- I imagine the pressure you’d feel to reach the outcome by a certain date.. and to show that you are making progress on your way to the outcome (so to make the Exchange worthy for me). Emotional healing is a Process that needs to be taken with no consideration of the Outcome. For a long time, I fell in love with the process itself, curious and interested, engaged.. with no consideration of any outcome, none at all.

“I am far from feeling like from feeling disgusts for those who fall into that, it is a very understandable.. it makes it hard to believe people who do anything for you if you’re not paying the price… I used to think it was just how the world worked (and still struggling with that belief because, for some, the world does work that way…) But in the end, the only disgust there should be is the one aimed toward those who take advantage. They aren’t good people”-

– this is very important for me to read. I never discussed this issue before, not even in my over two years of therapy, not with anyone before here, with you. To read your words above is like taking in a cold, clean air for the first time, to read “very understandable” and “far from.. disgust”, and more.

I feel that there is something more to develop from what I quoted right above: first, true; “for some, the world does work that way”. I would say that for many, it does. There are many people who “aren’t good people”. Coming to think about it,  my own mother was not “good people” to me! Your mother was not/ is not good-people to you!

My mother did not perceive me as a person of value, but as a Thing that belongs to her. No wonder I continued, outside her physical presence, to perceive myself to be a Thing that.. does not belong to me. In those humiliating situations- I wanted to get away, and my body said NO! in so many ways, I mumbled no, no, no, but I just didn’t feel that I had the right to say out loud: NO!, or to stop what was happening, or to leave. I didn’t perceive that I had that right or option. It was a relief when it was over. Before and after that terrible part, it was nice, primarily because I was not with my mother, and I got to be in a restaurant and riding in a car, etc.

My body did not belong to me, I didn’t like it, just carried it around, like it was really a thing that does not belong to  me, a thing I was uncomfortable with. I was almost trying to get rid of it because it was trouble, shameful.

“Shame is a very difficult feeling to live with, and it makes me happy if our exchanges help you to alleviate some of it”- I thought yesterday: I can’t un-feel the shame if I only think about myself, but I can un-feel it when I think of how you wouldn’t deserve to feel that shame if you experienced what I did, and how so many women who did experience what I did, or similar to it- they don’t deserve to feel that shame. Therefore, I don’t.

“I am not sure I fear your betrayal the most. I fear making mistakes, not ill-intentioned, but due to ignorance and lack of awareness”- I know this fear oh so well.

“I also fear the intensity of my feelings. Usually it isn’t a problem because I am taming them, over time it became a second nature to temperate myself. But… how to put it, I feel like our connection is challenging me and will keep challenging me emotionally”- this is why being gentle and patient with yourself is so important: you treating yourself this way and me treating you this way too: gentle, patient, no pressure, no Outcome in mind, only Process.

“it makes me anxious because compared to my usual state of regulation, my un-tempered feelings are quite… intense”- It will take getting used to what is now unusual. With time, and with the right attitude (gentleness, patience) you will become comfortable with what now is unusual and uncomfortable.

“And it is both embarrassing and intimidating. And it makes me feel vulnerable. And it also worries because I have to be able to deal with these emotions in a responsible way, one that wouldn’t possibly bring you discomfort”-

(1) you have a wiggle room  with me, some room for “making mistakes, not ill-intentioned, but due to ignorance and lack of awareness” without being judged or punished for those, no punishment, no withdrawal, (2) it is very important that you grow to understand that if you bring me discomfort- it is not going to be a devastating discomfort that I can’t handle, but a small discomfort that will help me learn something new as a result. In this Process of emotional healing, it is moments of discomfort that move us toward more learning= healing.

So you see, your “mistakes” are opportunities for me to learn= heal. Same with my mistakes: they are opportunities for you to learn= heal. We should both relax further: give ourselves the right to be spontaneous, trusting ourselves and each other to not make devastating mistakes.. because we are good people, so devastating mistakes are really not possible for us to make.

anita

Dear Linarra:

I wrote to you that there are many people who aren’t good people, and you wrote: “Too many, way too many… It makes the world very difficult to navigate. Learning to figure out who is trustworthy, how to stop falling into power games“- it amazes me how confident I feel at this point (compared to past zero/very, very low confidence) about my ability to figure out who is trustworthy and who is not, and how to not fall into power games. It looks easy to me, in comparison to how difficult it used to be.

“And how to deal with interactions with dangerous people when they can’t be helped“- in all of my years away from my mother, I did not personally, to my knowledge, come across a person even close to the amount of danger my mother was to me.

“She hurt you so much… She deprived you of the comfort you should have felt in your body… And you had nobody to protect you from her… So it is no wonder you fell into her trap, then traps similar to hers… It takes a lot to heal from the negative and hurtful feelings that were put inside us“-

– thank you, yes: she hurt me so, so much, it’s incredible how much emotional hurt a person can experience- at any age- and still live to tell about it, isn’t it (?)

I want to compare the traps, the trap with my mother vs the trap with men: with my mother the trap was never ending, with men it was temporary. With my mother, I thought of (and I think I used the term in my poems at the time) my childhood as “my private holocaust”. It felt like an eternity with no way out.

“So your empathy for others is helping you the most for this, it is interesting“, you wrote this regarding my shame. Yes, and this happened as a result of communicating with you, because of you.

“I am curious to experience how it feels, to be comfortable with… Feelings“- the brain/ body automatically numb feelings that are too intense for it to handle, so if and when you happen to feel a more intense emotion: your brain/ body will automatically numb it. This is what happened to me, again and again. It never happened that an emotion became so intense that.. it killed me (obviously) or pushed me into psychosis or whatnot.

Regarding my offer of a wiggle room to make mistakes, you wrote: “Thank you. And, same for you with me“- you are welcome, and thank you!

“I want to try it. I’ll try to think of this when I worry. I really want to discover and experience healing with you, at least as much as it can happen during our communication“- do you have a specific idea in regard to trying something soon, in regard to healing?

anita

Dear Linarra:

I wrote to you: “I want to compare the traps, the trap with my mother vs the trap with men: with my mother the trap was never ending, with men it was temporary”, and you asked (I feel like saying thank you for asking, and I didn’t yet read what you are asking):

“Was it because with men you were more free to leave and cut ties?”- no, this doesn’t sound true, I mean: I was not at all “free to leave” those humiliating situations, I felt immobilized, unable.

“Because they just couldn’t have more power over you than she used to have?”- no, this doesn’t sound true either, because they had all the power they needed to humiliate me.

“Or because if you were able to leave her you knew you could leave anybody?“- no, I wasn’t able to leave her or anyone.

I think that the difference between being stuck/ trapped with her and being stuck with them is that after a limited amount of time, they drove me back, in their cars.. to her, dropping me off and  going back to their lives while my life with her had no time-limit, it was ongoing.

“It seems like this healing happens because you are good with others, and therefore it makes you able to be good with yourself“- yes, it makes sense that for a human/ a social animal, emotional healing has to happen in the social context: being good to other people=> being good to myself => being good to other people, etc.

“Oh for sure it is unlikely to kill or drive into madness (or it already have happened when the worse happened, I guess). I guess what is bothering when I feel intense emotions.. is shame and some kind of loneliness. They aren’t landing anywhere and I live in the fear if they were noticed I would be humiliated.. I tend to withdraw easily when someone notice an emotion. Because it gives information about me and it feels a bit threatening.“-

– when you expressed intense emotions and your mother notices.. how did she react (you probably shared but I forgot at the moment)?

“I have no specific idea. Not exactly. But there’s something that is bothering me, a decision I should make soon and I don’t manage to make it… There’s a friend who invited me to stay 2 weeks with her.. I can still say no or just do a shorter period…  Just the last 3 days of hanging with my friends were enough for me to want to shut down from socializing for weeks or months. And it’s not because they’re bad people…. Outside with people my brain cannot think, cannot want, cannot chose… I’m curious to see if you have any input or thoughts that could be helpful to clear my mind about that”-

– as I read your dilemma I arrived at my answer quickly, way before I got to the ending of my reading: it was (and is) a clear and confident no. Reason: “we aren’t close enough“. To stay with a person you are not close enough to, in her house, for an extended amount of time, given how you feel around other people- is far from being congruent with the gentle and patient nature of emotional healing: it is rough and extreme.

anita