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if karma exists why bullies of that kid have perfect lives and he is dead?

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Peter 4 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #303821

    nothing
    Participant

    so if karma exists why

    https://incels.co/threads/bullied-boy-laid-down-on-the-tracks-in-front-of-50-schoolmates-all-of-them-watched-as-the-boy-was-killed-by-a-train.132668/#post-2745783

     

    bullies of that boy live a happy lifes , to the fullest and he is now dead? why noone even helped him and now they play concerned about his fate? karma is a bullshit there is only cruelty on this world nothing more

    #303825

    anita
    Participant

    Dear nothing:

    If you don’t mind, can you tell what is in that link, I don’t want to open links- is this a recent news story, where did it take place, what happened, anyone got arrested, is there an investigation going on, what is known so far?

    Also, what does karma mean to you, what is your understanding of what it is?

    anita

    #303827

    nothing
    Participant

    in shortcut: 14 years old boy was bullied by women who were his classmates , then commited suicide while his classmates have seen that and DID NOTHING to prevent this. teacher knew he has been bullied and did NOTHING to prevent his death. Now he is dead rotten corpse while his bullies have perfect happy life. so now tell me wheres you fucking karma now? theres no karma only cruelty

    #303829

    Peter
    Participant

    I think, like many you might have a incorrect understand the concept of Karma.

    Most people equate the word with idea of justice. Karma is not justice, which is a man-made concept that does not exist in nature. Karma is not a looming punishment or form of retribution. It is not meant to scare or threaten you with bad consequences for your ill-intended actions. Neither does it reward you with a winning lottery ticket a week after you helped an old lady cross the road. There is no such thing as “Instant Karma”.

    The Buddha explained karma as “this arises, that becomes.”  Alan Watts translates Karma as “The interdependent origination of all the forms and phases of life.”

    Some explain Karma as being a kind of cause and affect or translate it the word to mean action. Kicking a stone and breaking your toe is a kind of karma. The broken toe is not a punishment but a consequence of the flow life that is not personal. It gets more complicated as karma relates to the life, death, life cycle, the cycles of life, Life AS IT IS…

    With regards to reincarnation (which from one perspective occurs within every breath you take) Ones ‘Karma’ shapes what a person is capable of seeing  and experiencing… being reborn into.

    “Karma” shapes a person level of awareness. We tend to see what we expect to see or more often what we fear to see. We can’t easily change/influence what we can’t see… so we repeat = suffering…  Which is where all the various Buddhist practices come in.  To end the cycle of karma, we need to ‘awake’ and become conscious, so that we might ‘see’ (experience) life as it is. Fully entering into the flow of life, detached yet engaged… joyful suffering… which is a very difficult paradox to hold.

     

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  Peter.
    #303835

    anita
    Participant

    Dear nothing:

    “there is only cruelty in this world nothing more”- there is a whole lot of human cruelty, always has been. Cruelty was what built the pyramids in ancient Egypt and it was all over the Roman Empire, those cruel entertainment show they had, people enjoying the most unspeakable acts of physical cruelty. I can’t think of a place or time where cruelty was not abundant. Cruelty happens nowadays in countless of bullying acts against children, like in the story you mentioned, and it exists in countless homes.

    – you wrote, “nothing more” than cruelty exists in this world, but you, are you cruel as well?,

    Because if you are not cruel, then there is something more in the world than cruelty, no?

    anita

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  anita.
    #303837

    anita
    Participant

    * didn’t reflect under Topics

    #303849

    nothing
    Participant

    >joyful suffering…

     

    but didnt buddha say after reaching state of enlightenment theres no more suffering?

    #303859

    anita
    Participant

    Dear nothing:

    I hope Peter will answer you soon. Maybe other members as well (it’s been slow here lately). It has been a while since I read about Buddhism. I read a lot but it was years ago. I am not a Buddhist and I am not religious. If you want to share more about your understandable distress about the cruelty you read about in that link, maybe cruelty you suffered in your life or have witnessed others close to you suffering, please share and I will read and reply when I am back to the computer in about 12 hours from now.

    anita

    #304029

    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Nothing. (from nothing comes all things)

    You ask some really good questions.

    “All I teach is suffering and the end of suffering.” – “Life is suffering” – yet the Buddha was not arguing for the end of life or, in my opinion, the disengagement from Life though for some that is a path. (most of us are not called to be monks or hermits but to engage with life)

    In general: We see life as we are (karma) not as it is.  As we become more conscious – “enlightened” – the opposites fade and we experience Life as it is, which is as we are. Life is a wonder; we are a wonder which includes suffering. We say Yes to life and engage fully with it, Joyful suffering… Have you noticed that the experiences that becomes deeply meaningfully because they are bitter sweet.  The experience of pain and suffering transformed…. Which yes, raises many more questions.

    I am not a Buddhist so the following may be off the mark but maybe it will help.

    The purpose of the various practice of Buddhism is greater awareness. Consciousness arises from the tension we experience when confronted with opposites.   We don’t become conscious of the experience of cold without having the experience of hot.

    Perhaps the first confrontation we all experience is the knowledge of good and evil which is different from knowledge of what is good and what is evil. Knowledge “of” is not the same as knowing “what is” so we suffer. What I experience as good one minute is in the next experienced as bad. What I experience as good you might experience as bad. How can that be? How can one thing be at the same time both? Not Two?

    We “awaken” to the problem of opposites, becoming conscious through struggle. In general, we experience struggle as suffering so you might say that the price of consciousness is suffering or, the price of life is suffering.

    When we look to nature, we become conscious of the fact that Life lives off Life.  Life requires the sacrifice of Life.  Our life comes at the cost of life and the tendency is to repress that truth = we suffer. I would argue that the question behind all religions is in my opinion how are we to respond that truth. Yes, No, or We can Fix it. Interestingly most religions can be interpreted in any of these ways.

    If we answer No, that Life should not be, get me off this ride. We dissolve the ego, no ego no suffering because there is nothing that can be touched. Begs the question, what is the ego and what role does it play in consciousness? Many interpret the goal of Buddhism this way.

    If we answer life was good, but we broke it so must fix it. Well, I suspect you know that just creates allot of suffering although it’s a good way to experience suffering as meaning and purpose.

    If we answer Yes, we enter into the flow or life as it is, that we are one, intimately part of Life, its wonder and suffering. We Suffer however our relationship to suffering changes and becomes not suffering.

    I would argue that the Buddha, as was Christ, were showing the path to say Yes to Life As It Is. Each moment of life a moment of “birth – death – resurrection/reincarnation” – not opposites but intimately connected and interwoven that we are to enter into freely.

    Which brings us back to the problem of opposites, suffering, consciousness and ‘enlightenment’.  As we awaken, we realize that opposites are illusions of our own making. Not that the experiences aren’t real but that they aren’t separate, aren’t opposites. Good and Bad exist together as one, as the All is one. Joy and suffering are not opposites but are one as the All is one. This is a different kind of consciousness and being.

    • Objective consciousness:  Object and Subject or separate. This is our relationship to the outer world where “real” equals those things we experience through our 5 senses.
    • Subjective consciousness: Object and Subject or separate. This is our relationship to the inner world, how we feel and think about what our senses reveal to us.
    • “Dream” consciousness: Both Object and Subject arise from the self.  You are both Object and Subject. The division between Object and Subject disappear. Object and Subject no longer opposites.
    • Consciousness enveloped by unconscious: conscious of the unconscious…. Add silence and you have the sound of “one hand clapping” the sound of the Universe, the sound of Life, ‘Oum’.

    So, what am I saying?

    As we engage in the practice we will eventually be confronted with the problem of opposites. As we practice, contemplate and meditate and allow the levels of consciousness to arise (cycle) the opposites of object and subject merge and the experience of opposites dissolves. As the opposites dissolves the questions of good and evil, joy and suffering dissolve and so our relationship to Life and relation to ego transforms to something that is transparent to the transcendent . In other words, beyond the limitation of words. We return to where we started but see it for the first time.

     

    #304091

    nothing
    Participant

    what are you talking about? Ancient egyptians didnt use slaves to build their pyramids , their builders were highly qualified workers with health care , they had right to get vacation , theyve got much food etc. Do you really think some dumb slaves did build such a wonder as a pyramide?

    #304117

    Peggy
    Participant

    Hi Nothing,

    The child that was bullied took his own life.  The people responsible for the bullying and his teachers, parents etc. will always know what happened.  You can’t make the assumption that those “bullies” have perfect lives.  For them to become bullies indicates that they, too, are responding to undesirable circumstances surrounding them.  This is not excusing their behavior – they are already damaged in some way.  No-one can predict the future and you do not know what will happen to them as time goes by.

    This awful tragedy has an impact on people.  It has had an impact on you.  Sometimes changes are made and new laws are passed to help prevent other children from behaving like this.  Maybe parents and teachers will campaign for these changes.  Sometimes, this is how “good” comes from such awful incidents as this.

    “Karma” can work itself out in all sorts of different ways and it is not for us to know the complexities of each and every incident.  People can build positive karma as well as negative karma.  It is very dangerous for you to think that there is only cruelty in this world.  This is simply not true.  You only have to witness people coming together when a major catastrophe happens in the world to know that there are a lot of kind, caring, loving people in the world.

    Perhaps you should talk through your feelings with someone – you should not let your anger fester.

    I hope you can find peace.

    Peggy

     

    #304527

    nothing
    Participant

    Peggy, first of all

    > there is only cruelty in this world.  This is simply not true.

     

    well for you , i know only cruelty ive met only cruel degenerate people in this life , i hate people so much that i enjoy someones suffering.

     

    >You can’t make the assumption that those “bullies” have perfect lives.

     

    oh but they do! that kid was bullied only because he was short and ugly , even after his death they have fun, party , have a rich sex lives even if theyre only teen, they laught at his death and spit on his grave.

    #304667

    Peter
    Participant

    Hi No-thing

    It sounds like you are in a lot of pain. If I’m reading you correctly the anger and frustration your holding has to do with the problem of justice. Lots of books written on that subject and still the idea is not understood.

    I get it. Everyday we watch as people that hurt others remain oblivious, untouched and or simply seemingly uncaring about the harm they do. We want them punished. Something about life is wrong and we want to fix it and condemn it.  I get it.

    The reality is life is not going to change. The choice then, remain angry and spend your life self-righteously shaking your fists at the heaven’s and all the wrong you see around you demanding Life be different, demanding Life conform to your expectations… or… let it go…

    Be the change you want to see, it’s the best anyone can do. (the reality is we always are weather we consciously choose it or not) Stand up when you see injustice but detached (not indifferent) from outcomes.  Life’s will, will be done. How other people experience that is their fate to face how you experience yours is yours. Its one of the few choices we get to make so choice wisely.

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