April 17, 2015 at 1:49 pm #75486
Thanks Will yeah Matt had some very insightful words & interesting perspectives. A lot of which resonated with me & made me see some things differently. I saw it differently but was still mad. However since then I’ve came a long way. I have even referred back to Matts posts at times when I needed to maintain some healing power.
I’ve no other way to frame it. People DID do something to me. The things that happened are facts & these facts hurt me. I am doing well in life & will be doing even better soon when I find a new job. I just lose focus sometimes & my attention falls back to the wrongs committed against me. I have also slacked off from doing EFT & meditation for about a month now (due to my apartment getting renovated & other stuff) & I have always found that if I don’t maintain mediation, I fall back into anger in due course. So, I’ve literally just started it again an hour ago.
Hey Martina. A lot of her actions WERE directed at hurting me – she screwed around pregnant to spite me. Once, when she was pregnant, I saw her in town sitting in a car with an ex boyfriend, I tried to talk to her & she gave me the finger as they drove off.
I have often attempted to see things from her perspective – after my kid was born I didn’t see him much for 18 months, so what did I miss? I missed sleepless nights, dirty nappies, feeds, crying, stress etc. I’ve tried showing compassion to these facts however the compassion always got overwritten by the level of betrayal in the bigger picture such as the entire list of stuff in my initial post.
The new boyfriends etc all having spent time with & even met my boy long before I did, me being last to meet him, the christening, sex whilst pregnant, another man seeing my child into the world, is stuff that can’t be undone. Some of it may seem insignificant to some, but they’re massively important to me. As well as everything else on that list.
Thanks but, I don’t care much for the peace of any of the men involved. I wouldn’t care if anything happened to them.
I know I can’t change what’s happened, so I guess I’ll once again try to focus on the future.April 17, 2015 at 2:26 pm #75487
I’m worrying about future stuff too. Anticipating it I mean..
Like any father figures or step fathers being in my boys life. I know I may not be able to stop this from happening. However I will ensure that my boy calls me daddy & me only. Nobody else. I will be present in my sons life until the day I die, so if he has a step dad the the step dad will be getting called by his own name. If I wasn’t around or didn’t care about my son, then ok, a kid needs a dad. But I am around & I will always be around. I do not mean this in an aggressive way either, I’ll not be “enforcing” it or anything. It will simply be a matter of correcting my boy if I ever hear him refer to anyone else using the word daddy or similar wording.July 28, 2015 at 3:32 am #80624
In a sudden turn of events i have suggested to my boys mum that we should get back together.
I had been really interested in this other woman though since about February, from Facebook. We had been getting close over text etc & i saw something happening with her long term. This might make you form judgements about her but she has 3 kids all from different dads. However she is not some benefits scrounge, she has a career as a social worker & she is just amazing in so many ways i could list but just take my word for it. Then 2 weeks ago we had a debate on facebook about a particular breed of young people in my city, who hijack cars – many of which are defenseless women with their toddler. I voiced my utter disgust & hatred for these little rats & would personally pay to see them hurt. But the “social worker” in this lady took offense to the things i said about them & said the opposite, that they should be shown compassion because they have underlying issues that need addressed.
So we had that debate which was a difference of beliefs or opinion, & she hasn’t spoken to me since, i don’t think she is going to either as I’ve sent 3 messages with no reply. No, we hadn’t met before but i was really into her & were due to meet very soon when we weren’t so busy & it was so disheartening to have built such a connection with her for it to go down the pan over nothing.
Back to my childs mum now. Not long ago she started sending me pictures of her & my son looking happy etc. i didn’t really think nothing at first but then began to think she was hinting at me to see us all together properly, and in some of the pictures she does look really nice. She also recently suggested we take our son out together to the cinema (we have NEVER done anything even close to this). The other night i was having a few beers & i saw yet another photo of just her, on whatssapp, of her looking real good & i sent her humorous text that included us maybe getting back together & she replied positively with a smile.
The thing is just a few weeks ago i was sure i will never get back with because i saw something happening with this other lady, & now shes stopped talking to me, all of a sudden I’m open to getting back with my ex?
The things she did to me don’t hurt as much any more, but they are still there deep down i just don’t bring them out. I could, but i choose not to as they only hurt. The fact that they are always going to be in my memory means they could come out some time in an argument.
I think rather than jump straight into it we should meet for a few drinks & a chat – & I don’t mean a chat about feelings & shit, i mean just have a laugh – maybe have sex, & then see how i feel about it… Although last night she did say that we could meet for a drink or something just cos we need to get on for our kids sake, but that there is no future for us because she cant forgive me for her court debt when i attempted to gain PR last year. Well she did worse to me.
Im also interested in this sexy little blonde 20 year old too who i hope to meet up with soon.
Im starting a new job next week in an office & what if there’s some available hotties there? Haha
I don’t even think i know what i want now that the lady i had invested too much feelings in suddenly removed herself from the idea.
I’m honestly not bothered either way. But does anyone think i would be mad to reunite with my ex after what she did to me?July 28, 2015 at 10:23 am #80651
I read all your posts since January of this year. As to your last question: yes, I think you are mad to think of reuniting with your ex at this point.
You have repeated time and again what hurt you so. I fully appreciate, I believe, the intensity of your hurt and anger through the years. I appreciate the magnitude of your hurt and your self control- commend you for it- for not reacting violently/ criminally to the very intense, insistent hurt and anger.
There is a hurt in you, an enraging hurt, from way before you met the mother of your child. From way back. Someone, maybe your mother, bypassing you, ignoring you, treating someone else as imporatant and you as not important. Maybe your father doing that. Someone did it- someone did it when you were young, very young. The intensity of your hurt and anger is not the kind that starts for a person in adulthood. It starts when you still develop, when you are soft enough to be so very damaged by it.
That hurt, that anger in you screams to be acknowledged- for the little boy in you, Dan, the boy in you that was ignored, passed to the side while another was placed in position of imporatance. And until you acknowledge your need that was so viciously unmet in childhood, your hurt in childhood, yes, as to your question, you will continue to be … mad. Mad with hurt and anger.
anitaJuly 28, 2015 at 12:54 pm #80655
Anita, that is an incredible insight!
Within the first few lines of your post I immediately stopped & sat there with my jaw hitting the floor realising what you said is very relevant & true…
My mother abandoned me when I was around 10 to 12 years old. She had an affair & dumped my dad. What happened was that since I was the only boy with 4 sisters, being the boy I would “go with dad”
I began drinking & taking drugs from a very young age, 10 years old (smoking, abusing solvents & cannabis from even younger than 10), which I have never blamed anyone for as I was never forced to do anything. However as I got older I was more aware that I probably enjoyed doing those things to blank out the pain of what happened. I was also too young to grasp the severity of everything – the break up, the drink, the drugs, becoming out of control etc… I always just accepted it & lived my life.
But the fact is it was a form of abandonment & rejection on my mother’s part. About 7 years ago myself & my youngest sister who is 5 years younger were having a glass of wine together & as the conversation developed suddenly we had a massive realisation where we stopped & I said “omg sis, you & me actually grew up separately, we barely even know each other!”
Now, my mother isn’t a bad, evil person. She has suffered a lot in her own life too. She had to raise her own siblings due to alcoholic parents, then in our family she lost a girl to cot death when I was 2 & my parents believe that was the beginning of the end for them because it was never the same. They lost another boy then too after my youngest sister.
Mum eventually had the affair & we all separated. After a few years, when I was heavily into hard drugs, mum herself became an alcoholic. For years I would barely see her, I think I’ve probably gone 2 years without seeing her on one occasion, but I was busy being addicted to ecstasy, speed & cocaine, living a wild & hectic life, so it didn’t matter.
It’s important I now point out that I gave up all drugs 5 years ago, in fact it’s my 5 year anniversary on Saturday the 1st of August 🙂 & now I work against drugs helping educate kids on their dangers.
The stuff my ex done, of which you stated you are well aware of as I have repeated them over & over, some of the specific actions are more of a personal thing like the sex whilst pregnant with my child – what I mean is whether or not my mum had an affair & dumped me wouldn’t change my anger to that particular action by my ex. Time isn’t a healer it’s just a mask. Depends on the wrongs of course, I could probably eventually let go of a lot of the wrongs but when it’s something as undoable as sex whilst pregnant with my child then no amount of time or apologies are ever going to make it right & that dark cloud will always be there… I know it isn’t a good idea to get back with her when inside there is still a part of me that seethes & burns, holding onto obtaining punishment for those men.
However Anita, please help me further understand what this overall means to me now & why it is significant… When I read your post I immediately knew it was my mum, but what does it mean? How does my mother abandoning me transfer to the things my ex done to me 15 years later? Is it something like I was screaming out NOO NOT REJECTION AGAIN without consciously knowing it? Cn this be used to ease my pain?
I think I would have been angry about things my ex done regardless, but I do believe this rejection/abandonment thing may hold major significance.
Please enlighten me more Anita, if you canJuly 28, 2015 at 1:52 pm #80659
There is pressure in our society to forgive- to let go of anger toward anyone who has hurt us. This pressure-to-forgive is a healing-killer to many of us, I strongly believe. I am free to feel hurt and angry at someone who has severely hurt me, especially over a long time and repeatedly. The anger carries the message: it wasn’t right. What was done to me was not right. i didn’t deserve it. It is wrong. The message needs to be valued and not discarded so to.. turn the other cheek/ forgive/ be a “good” person, that is one who takes it with “no biggy” and a smile. Your anger is valuable. It is understandable that you are angy at your ex and at anyone else who has hurt you. It is okay for you to feel anger for as long as you do. Do not try to … get rid of your anger. Accept it and listen to its message.
What the history with your mother means to what has happened with your ex is that you may be feeling guilty about feeling angry at your mother, being too empathetic for her (she did her best… she was abused herself….etc.) but your ex is more of a clear path for your already- there anger. So when you are angry at your ex- it is not only your anger at her that you would feel even if you had no history with your mother- but it is also your anger at your mother, the anger you are not aware of.
it is understandable that you feel anger at your ex. You’d feel it anyway even if your mother never had the affair and its consequences, like you stated. It is the INTENSITY of your anger at your ex that carries the history.
Every parent – or 95-99% of parents who abuse &/ or neglect their child and/ or otherwise hurt the child severely, do so because he/ she is distressed, he/ she was abused/ neglected/ hurt as a child. But this fact is of no relevance to the child. You get hurt the same whether your mother was abused as a child or not. When someone stabs your heart, does it hurt less if the one doing the stabbing had a tough history? Does your heart bleed less… and if the stabbing kills you, do you die any less if the one doing the stabbing is your mother or a stranger or an ex girlfriend.
It is that hurt when you were a child, hurt from your mother choosing a man over you, neglecting you, rejecting you, having you live with your father, away from her- that hurt is still hurting inside you. You are still bleeding. If you attend good psychotherapy and access the awareness of that hurt or hurts of childhood, if you learn skills how to endure awareness of that hurt, not being overwhelmed, and processing that hurt, releasing it… you will feel the … becoming on ONE person, that is integrating the dissociated parts of you, becoming one.
I hope I am making sense to you. Do I? Whatever is not clear to you, what I mean, that is, please ask. I am here and I will explain what I mean, hoping it may be helpful to you.
anitaJuly 28, 2015 at 2:18 pm #80664
And congratulations on your soon to be five year anniversary of no drug use!
anitaJuly 28, 2015 at 5:25 pm #80682
I am so with you on that one Anita! That we should not feel forced into forgiveness. There has to be a flipside too where if you don’t feel they deserve it then you don’t give it. However I do understand the reasons why forgiveness is good for us too. It’s just that if you aren’t feeling it then it should be allowed or even encouraged that you simply feel the anger instead, forgiveness surely isn’t the only way. I believe you can simply move on without the need or the requirement that you forgive the perpretrators.
I understand the possibility that the abandonment by my mother has helped to increase the intensity of my anger at my ex. I completely get that, & I am aware that many people who have been wronged were able to relate their hurt to a traumatic event in their past. However, it is not my mums fault that my ex did what she did.
I really appreciate your understanding of my pain Anita. Many have said to me that it was none of my business as she was single to do as she pleases, but you understand that that doesn’t do anything to alleviate my pain in any way. It could even have been worse since I was so powerless to stop her.
I do not hold anything against mum I never have & I do not wish to, but this has certainly given me something to think about. It will take a while for me to get my head around this…….. As for the single most painful part, my ex having sex pregnant, that was something I had a personal belief about that if & when I ever had childen that the mother would not be having sex with anyone else whilst pregnant. I never got that, i lost that after year & years of holding this wish close to my heart. That, i think, was intense enough for a lot of the anger i felt, alongside the monumantal rejection by my ex of me & the exclusion from absolutely everything to do with my sons initiation into the world & the first couple of years after. I did move away 9 months after he was born but that was because even though i only lived a few miles away i was not allowed to see him, & in those 9 months i think i had met him about 5 brief times… Writing about this is bringing it all back & i can feel the shadows rising & the rage beginning to boil.
Most of what you are saying is making sense, although it has taken a few reads over & it may take afew more to fully grasp everything you mean through you analogies etc.
I am not sure if Matt is still here but he helped me on my initial thread from February or March 2014 titled “struggling to forgive my childs mother” (did you read it too?) … In defence of forgiveness Matt really gave me some deep and meaningful analogies and advice, which i often came back to when i needed some help, just to read, and remember how well i was doing.
I know i did the right thing by moving away. My future brother in law told me 7 months ago that he thought it was a bit of a cop out, not in a bad way but that i should have “stayed and fought” however i reminded him in no uncertain terms how far i was being pushed into commiting violent acts if i hadnt gone… I am not finished 🙁 deep down i still crave those guys to suffer & even on rare occasions when i do think about them, that “some day” i will get them back.
Since you have given me a whole new view on this Anita, do you happen to also have any new ways to deal with the urge i occasionally get to hurt or wish to see hurt on them?
In light of this new perspective i may get some more counselling to see what might happen when i discuss it with a professional, considering this new perspective.July 28, 2015 at 7:39 pm #80698
What I wrote and what anyone else wrote to you or said to you is not the absolute truth, only suggestions for you to consider. The truth is in you, in your emotions and for you to decipher as the messages in your emotions are very personal to you and only you can know more and more what they are. This is a recap of what I get from what you wrote here, feedback if you will, feeback with my personal impressions and feelings about what you said:
The fact that your child’s mother had sex with other men while pergnant with your son is something so obsense to you, so offensive, mind-boggling wrong, offensive, obscene. It is extremely difficult for you to accept it happened. It is like something horrible you saw and you can’t unsee it. You just can’t be okay with something so obscene. This is something you will never accept, will not accept and it drives you crazy at times, crazy that it happened. Of course, it keeps happening in your mind, you re-live it. This last part is unfortunate because it means you suffer again and again and again and I wish you did not suffer anymore. If there is a way for you to stop suffering over it- stop suffering and at the same time still see it as offensive as you do- but stop suffering over it, i am all for it.
The second offensive thing to you is that you were not there in the beginning of your child’s life because of his mother. This is also unforgivable to you. As with the issue above, if there is a way for you to stop suffering over this, while still seeing that as regrettable and offensive as you do, I am all for it.
My point is I would like you to stop suffering.
You wrote in another post that you tried therapy but talking about stuff just made you feel more distressed, so what’s the point. One thing should be taught by a GOOD therapist is to regulate emotions, to calm yourself so not to be overwhelmed with the intensity of the emotions. Only after learning these skills should you express your emotions- a bit at a time, in manageable amounts. Again, there is a message in every emotion and only if you can regulat the intensity of the emotion can you learn from it.
You mentioned your correspondence with Matt previously. I don’t see it on this thread. I wonder what you learned from it?
Regarding your desire that the guys will suffer for what they did… that is the nature of hurt: you get hurt, you want to hurt back. Has been so from the beginning of humanity. New ways to deal with the urge to hurt them? Only one I know that is not a temporary solution: to find out the message in that anger, in the hurt that fuels wishes urges for revenge. i suggested hurt from your childhood. It seems to me that although you remember the events of your childhood, the affair by your mother and so forth, you do not remember the hurt, that is you dissociated, cut off the hurt from your awareness, but the hurt is still there, and it will not stop making itself known until you see it, until you connect it to your childhood. The hurt from your childhood is disconnected from your memory of events: you remember what happened and how you got into drugs etc., but you don’t feel hurt by your mother and the anger at her. That hurt is SPLIT and it is looking to reconnect with the events that you do remember. This is serious work that needs to be done.
I really don’t see any other way but professional therapy but good, effective therapy, not like what you had.
What I wish for you, Dan, is that you stop suffering. I do not wish for you to change your views about what your ex did. I am not telling you how you should feel about it- and of course I am not telling you to forgive her. I only care that you stop suffering. Again, i commend you for not doing anything illegal and for abstaining from drugs for five years coming Aug 1.
anitaJuly 29, 2015 at 8:22 am #80728
This is most likely not the first time that you or someone else brought up one or more of the following points. Yet, it may be emotional for you to read the following, it may hurt and it may enrage you. Please do not, if you can, keep reading- proceed at your own risk… I am scared for you. I am also concerned that this ongoing hurt and rage is not going anywhere as is…
This is probably what did NOT happen: the mother of your son did not think: I am going to shame Dan by having sex while I am pregnant with Dan’s son. I am going to have sex with other men while having Dan’s seed in me so to hurt him. The men having sex with her did not gang with the mother, let us hurt Dan. The mother of your son and the men you are referring to had sex part of the time not even knowing she was pregnant. And when they knew, they were most likely not thinking of you at all. In other words them having sex was NOT about you or about your seed inside her.
This is probably what DID happen. When you discovered that your own mother had sex with another man (or other men) and you moved away from your mother and in with your father (who talked about what she did and you heard it and his emotions…), part of your psyche was still with your mother. You were still attached to her mentally. Part of you was still with her or in her, in her body, so to speak. When you discovered she had sex with another man that means that the man’s body part was inside your mother’s body- and there you were, in her body, watching the strange man’s body part invading your space, taking over what belonged to you- your home, your mother. You were angry at that man (or men, over time) for taking residence in your mother and turning your life upside down. OUT you were (out of her body/ her life) and IN he/ they were (inside her body/ her life).
The hurt and anger over what DID happen was TOO MUCH for you to handle. You were too young and did not have the skills, on your own, to deal with it- nobody can without the skills and maturity. You repressed that hurt and anger, pushed it way, way down. Did drugs, anything to not feel the pain that still came up from under, from the depths of you. No matter how well you repressed the pain, shoving it down, it still hurt.
When you discovered that the now mother of your child had sex with another man/ men while carrying your child, it was like it wasn’t another child developing in her womb, it was YOU there, and it happened again: another man/ other men took residence where they didn’t belong, in your home, your territory. The hurt and anger resurfaced full intensity.
You feel empathy for your mother, so your hurt and anger at her are blocked. You do not feel empathy for the mother of your child, so your hurt and anger are free to roam, resurface, again and again.
anitaJuly 29, 2015 at 3:44 pm #80771
Wow! Once again Anita you have presented me with an amazing insight.
I have decided I need help & I am going to seek out CBT or something similar with proven effective practical techniques that assist healing, as opposed to just talking about the pain therefore resurfacing it all.
Earlier today I went for a walk to my favorite place in the city, the docks. I go there to meditate when I am feeling down, but today I was really angry, painfully angry. It was a combination of everything my ex done, but mixed with anger at the recent girl who suddenly rejected me, triggering all this off. I was trembling with anger & I almost cried at how much I have suffered, & that was when I accepted that I need more professional help.
The rage at the other men & desire to see them hurt is not going to disappear. I will never be able to wish them well & hope for their good fortune, but I accept that, I dont want to wish them well anyway, I would be lying. However, I know I can control the rage – for months while i was into this new girl the hurtful memories could pop up in my head regularly & yet i wouldn’t explore them, I would just allow them to drift off quickly. But now they have come back, triggered by another rejection.
I will start using meditation again, ERT & EFT. I stopped using them months ago & i know that at the time they seemed to alleviate the pain. So I can only benefit from starting again.
Matts analogies were as amazingly insightful as yours Anita, there really are some blessed souls on here who do really care 🙂 they didn’t immediately help me but I knew they made sense.
I will look into the professional help & of course report back when i do.
Thanks for the congrats. I think it is quite an achievement in itself that throughout all this i never returned to drugs 🙂July 29, 2015 at 4:27 pm #80773
I do believe it is quite an achievement indeed that through this all you did not return to drugs! And that through your most intense days and nights of anger and rage that you controlled your behavior. You have my deepest appreciation for your values and your strength.
CBT is exactly the therapy I had starting in 2011. Before that the therapy I did have was not therapy at all. It was talking and crying and at best I temporarily felt better but no ongoing healing took place. I didn’t know what therapy was until 2011. This was the first therapist who prepared for our sessions, who gave me homework to do in between sessions, who presented me – after a few sessions- with diagnoses and a plan, in writing, with objectives and how to meet them. Very scientific. He was the first who answered my emails in between sessions, took my phone calls with no extra cost. He was the first therapist who did not stop our sessions after 50 minutes. The sessions went on and on until we were done. He was serious. He made mistakes and was not perfect but was good-enough. Can’t expect a therapist to always get you, but be hard working and good-enough. CBT is based on science and it is my type of therapy. As most therapists do or should do, he did as well: incorporating mindfulness into the therapy. Can’t do without it!
Looking forward to your updates/ writing anytime and will be thinking of you on your five years anniversary in three days.
anitaAugust 18, 2015 at 2:33 pm #81987
My kids mum rejected me & now i’m all pissed off & stuff.
She looked incredible last night in her whatsapp picture & i told her so. Then i mentioned again about getting back together. Lately she had been sending me lots of little cosy photos of her & my boy, planting a seed i believe, & then at the end she just tells me its never gunna happen, that she is moving on & gunna start dating again now that our son is that bit older.
Im not totally pissed about the rejection itself so much, because deep down i still truly hate her guts. What annoys me is the idea of another man playing daddy to my son.
Shes told me before that she would never change his surname, nor would he ever call anyone else daddy, so at least i don’t have to worry about that. However it does piss me right off the possibility of some other man building a bond with MY boy since they will no doubt spend more time in his company.
I just hate it all. I don’t want to be friends with my ex & some other man, & i cant see a scenario where we are all friendly – yes most likely due my stubbornness, & deep hurt from the shit she did, but thats the way it is.December 30, 2016 at 3:48 pm #124029
I just wanted to say how things are now.
Since back then things are much better (in regards to my mindset). Myself and my boy have a good relationship and see each other at least every 2 weeks.
But some things still get to me. Obviously deep down I’ll never forget what she did when she was pregnant etc, but the other day I asked her agin to put my name on my child’s birth certificate. The answer was the same as it’s always been “NO, I have full say over him until he’s 16 and your name will not be going on the birth certificate”
This of course, is not something that makes me happy. And only serves to remind me of the awful things she did.
On top of this she has introduced my son to her new boyfriend (apparently the first boyfriend she’s introduced to him but this is not true as she had a man sleeping in the same bed a with her and my son when he was a baby, which was/is one of the things that enraged me). She said she would not have introduced him unless he was a decent guy and it was serious.
Of course, who she sees is none of my business, but who’s in my boy’s life, is.
The thing is I’m feeling a little uncooperative or something – as I’ve said in previous posts on this thread things like “I would not want to be friends or civil to a step dad in my child’s life playing daddy”
Well that time has come apparently. What it is is this – because of what she did to me, covered in the original post on this thread, I don’t feel like I will be truly cooperative or embracing of a step-dad, if ever, in response to what she did. I feel like I want to punish her by not letting her forget it, and not being accepting of her boyfriend.
Any opinions or suggestions or experiences are welcome.
Aside from that. Life is great and to be truly honest, all the amazing things I have in my life now in my career and more, are a direct result of what she did, because I utilised that pain and turned my life around. It’s bittersweet because it came from such hurt, but here I am.December 30, 2016 at 6:36 pm #124041
Welcome back to your own thread. If I remember correctly, your mother had an affair and left you, your father and sibling or siblings as she left to live with her lover. You were about ten then.
As an adult you had a girlfriend for four months and broke up. Nothing serious. Except she turned pregnant. And she had a relationship or relationships with other men while pregnant, maybe not knowing she was pregnant.
Next thing, all your rage at your mother was transferred to the ex girlfriend, and that rage, still ongoing. I don’t know why I didn’t suggest it to you before (or did I)- to attend competent psychotherapy so to process your anger at your mother, so to stop inaccurately projecting it into your ex girlfriend.
That will decrease your anger at the girlfriend, the mother of your child, and make co parenting with her way more workable, way better for your child’s interest.