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Is getting married that important?

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  • #151330
    Ruby
    Participant

    Hi,

    I could do with some impartial advice about my relationship. This is very long so brace yourselves!
    I am 30 years old and female, I have a great life with good friends, hobbies and a job I love. I live with my boyfriend of 10 years in a flat we are lucky enough to own in central London. I feel very grateful and fortunate for the life I get to live. So I feel a bit silly moaning about anything, but here goes.
    My boyfriend and I got together at university when we were both 20. It started off as a bit of fun, which turned into lots of fun and a deep, emotional connection. We fell in love and stayed in love. We spent our twenties together having adventures and going through all the crappy jobs and shitty 20s stuff together. And having a great time! But as we were having so much fun in the ‘now’ we never bothered talking about the future. We never talked about anything like that at all. It felt taboo to bring anything like marriage and babies into a conversation (probably because we still had the mentality that we were in a university relationship – and you don’t talk about that stuff when you’re 20..) So over the years we just carried on together, quite happily to be fair. People around us started to get married about 5 years ago. It didn’t bother me at first as i felt they were very young. But then about 3 years ago my younger sister got engaged and two of our funniest friends got married. I think seeing these fun people go for it was a catalyst for me thinking it was something I was finally ready for. But I didn’t say anything to my boyfriend about the way I felt. Instead, I guess I just expected he would be feeling the same way. Except he wasn’t. So I spent the next year or so feeling more and more like getting married was something I wanted. That our relationship was perfect, so we should take it to the next level and so on. So I dropped hints, I talked generally around the subject with him but I never said anything to him directly about it. It felt like I couldn’t say anything direct now because that would ruin the ‘surprise’ if he proposed and that it wouldn’t be very romantic if we just had a sensible chat about it (I realise now how stupid this was and I should have said something direct 3 years ago). Instead I got more and more annoyed that he wasn’t taking my hints. I started taking out that frustration on him about stupid, little, unrelated things. Picking fights and generally being irritable with him because he wasn’t proposing. I guess at the time I didn’t realise I was doing it but he was definitely noticing the tension between us. We’ve never fought really, or have any kind of tension, so it suddenly made everything horrible between us. I kept feeling like ‘if only he’d just propose I’d stop feeling so angry at him’ and he must have felt so confused as to why I was behaving so cross at him. Finally after probably a year of NOT talking about it I finally exploded and just asked him outright why he didn’t want to marry me (not the best way to start such a conversation). We had a big chat about marriage, children and the future. Except it was mainly me crying on him and giving all the reasons why i wanted to get married, have kids etc. He didn’t really say anything – stunned into silence best describes it. At the time I went away feeling relieved I’d finally said something and convinced that, while I wouldn’t get that surprise proposal at least now he knew what I wanted and would do something about it. Except he didn’t. We just carried on as we had before. I didn’t mention it again for a few months as I was hoping he would take some action. But nothing happened. So the anger and frustration returned, along with the fights and irritability. I’d have occasional outbursts of crying where I would basically plead with him about it and he wouldn’t do anything. This lasted about a year, with me in an endless cycle of hope and then misery. But we still had moments of loveliness together and this just reaffirmed why I wanted to be with him. Finally in January this year I had enough of waiting. By then I was 30 and it was our 10 year anniversary (which I guess in my head was always a bit of a deal breaker milestone). I had become obsessed with us getting married and it was making me miserable. So I told him that if we didn’t get married then eventually we would have to split up as it was making me crazy. Finally this got him talking, he told me he didn’t like the idea of marriage (due to the idea that you’re buying a woman with an engagement ring or that she loses her identity etc – we both believe in equality and feminism so I do understand these concerns). Also he has issues that marriage is something society expects of you and that weddings are expensive and all the same. The thing is I know he doesn’t like to conform to what people expect or do but it hurt that he’d never expressed this antipathy to marriage to me before. He didn’t like the connotations of marriage either, the idea that you ‘settle down’ and essentially become boring and move to the suburbs. He also said he felt there were problems in our relationship he felt we needed to work on before he could commit to something as huge as marriage. And also that he wasn’t sure whether he wanted children or not. He said ‘I have everything I ever wanted right now, why would I want to change it’ as an explanation to his inaction. In response to my ultimatum he told me he knows he will lose me if we don’t get married and that he wants time to work on his issues and our relationship problems before we go further. The relationship problems he cites are ones I do agree with, like making more time to spend together on dates, more sex, communicating better and more honestly with each other, finding our shared interests and passions again. But one of the issues he cited is me being cross with him and picking fights. I have explained that this is out of the marriage frustration but I don’t think he believes me or that it will go away if we got married. I also think he worries it will happen again if there is something else I want in the future he doesn’t/can’t give me. I don’t know what to do about fixing this rift between us. Also the other big one is that I know I would like kids one day (not right now as I’m not ready) but he isn’t sure (and doesn’t want to marry me if he thinks we’ll disagree on something so fundamental in the future). I think he is scared about how life will change if we have kids. He loves our lifestyle at the moment. We do a lot of activities, like visiting museums, theatre, travelling, hanging out with friends, clubbing etc which feels very like we haven’t left our twenties. I’m not sure I’m ready to leave that lifestyle behind either as I love our life and I don’t want it to change. But I know if we had kids our lives would have to change in some ways as they would come first. So while I don’t ever want to become a boring person and stop my hobbies or cultural activities I know there are some things we would HAVE to stop (like partying etc) – which I worry he will resent me and future kids for. I worry that essentially we want different things and we are too afraid about losing each other to admit this. I worry he just wants to party forever and will never want to commit to me properly (by getting married) or start a family. I love him so much but it feels like there is an endless stream of reasons (or are they excuses?) from him about why we shouldn’t move forward in our relationship and get married. He feels that marriage isn’t important but a strong relationship is. But I think if we never got married I would always feel like we were never properly united together and it would destroy whatever strong relationship we had. I want us to bond and commit to each other in all the ways marriage means. And I want us to be seen by the world as a family or a unit (whether or not we have kids). I already feel our relationship is undervalued by people because we aren’t married (recently I was not invited to his childhood friend’s wedding as plus ones were only for married couples

    #151370
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Ruby:

    “Is getting married that important?”

    Society promotes marriage (with a time schedule, so at 30 your time as a single woman has expired…), and most people feel pressure and desire to conform, to comply with social conventions. And so, society pressures you to get married and you, in turn, are pressuring your boyfriend.

    Your pressuring your boyfriend to get married has been hurting the relationship.

    Question is: who/what benefits you more, Society or your boyfriend? For example, if you were married you would have been invited to that wedding. How important is it for you, to be invited to that wedding?

    If you pressured your boyfriend to get married and succeeded but he resented it, would that be for your benefit?

    And if you- or him- ended the relationship because of the marriage issue, would that benefit you?

    anita

    #151380
    Ruby
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Thanks for your response. I guess a big part of my knows that my relationship is more important than what society thinks but I can’t seem to turn off this mental conditioning that makes me want to get married. I am trying to be patient and give him the time he needs to feel ready, and working with him to resolve our issues. And he does say he feels like he’s getting closer to it all the time and that everything we do now is an investment in the future of our relationship, which I do believe. But sometimes I can’t help falling into negative thinking, like am I just fooling myself? I’ve waited 3 years for him to propose, we’ve been together for 10. But is he ever really going to be ready? Should I just end things and try to find someone that already wants a marriage and kids even if it is not this man, who I love so much. What if I left him and never found anyone else who I loved as much? But then What if my marriage obsession makes me throw away a wonderful, respectful, healthy relationship just because he didn’t want to get married. If I didn’t care about being married to him I think we would have just carried on happily and one day have started a family etc when we were ready and at that part in life. We are committed in many ways already (as we joint own the flat and our lives are entwined) so does getting married even matter? Why has this desire to get married and plan my future taken over my life? How can I get over this obsession sand focus on what’s important?

    #151378
    Thelotuslover
    Participant

    G’day Ruby

    Good to read your writing, its also surprising to me that living in Central London you still feel the pressure to get married within a particular age , else your bio clock will start ticking etc. but hey, I’m no relationship counsellor. Sharing my own experiences from friends, coworkers and surroundings , yes , there are many countries/ cultures where they set up a particular age specially for a female to get married. In your case, I would say you have a great guy w Oh ho believes in equal rights, feminism and rejects the idea of owning a woman only by a ring. It’s time for you to start thinking are you really ready to loose him along with your 10 years of precious relationship or are you going to start meeting others where you never know how long it will take to find someone to click in order to be your future husband. Remember , having a husband doesn’t always mean you have found yourself a life partner /soul mate. Don’t worry about the clubbing bit of your boyfriend, I used to a party animal till my 30,now can’t stand the idea of a club hunting. We all manage to come out of the club scene sooner or later, its temporary. As far as I know, once the couple is ready they can have kids without being married, as in the UK you get to have the same legal right of a married couple to that of a de facto partnership unless you are extremely religious and traditional. Good luck and choose your options wisely.

    #151396
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Ruby:

    Your boyfriend has a negative feeling about marriage, probably not because of a dry philosophical thought, an anti society rebellion, but probably because his emotional, personal experience with marriage. And since he was never married, it could very well be his emotional experience with his parents’ marriage. He probably doesn’t want to be married the way his parents were married.

    If his experience living with his parents and witnessing their marriage was very negative, the chances that he will get married with you, and that if he will, that it would be a good idea, are not great, I believe. It may benefit you to find out and look into his experience with his parents’ marriage. This is what I would do, if I was you.

    * You wrote: “I am trying to be patient and give him the time he needs to feel ready, and working with him to resolve our issues.”- it may not be at all the issues between you and him that are the reason for his reluctance, but the issues between his parents before he ever met you.

    It is fair for you to want to get married, there is nothing wrong with your desire to be married, social convention or not. It is your right. There shouldn’t be pressure placed on you to NOT conform to society’s traditional convention regarding marriage.

    You asked: “We are committed in many ways already (as we joint own the flat and our lives are entwined) so does getting married even matter?”- Maybe because him not wanting to marry you means, in your mind, that he doesn’t love you enough. If you researched what I suggested above, you may find out that this is not at all the meaning of his reluctance. If you understand his motivation, maybe the meaning behind his reluctance will change your own motivation.

    You asked: “Why has this desire to get married and plan my future taken over my life?”- because it has become your focus. It became your focus, I believe,  because of the meaning I referred to above.

    “How can I get over this obsession sand focus on what’s important?” – what is important is to understand each other’s motivations: what it is that you need: is it the assurance that he loves you enough; is it to satisfy your family’s expectations… is it the fear of getting old, or a combination of such?

    And, again, what is his motivation?

    anita

     

     

    #151400
    zee
    Participant

    I kinda have the opposite situation, but I think it’s still relevant. I’m 25 and single and I used to agonize over what society dictates is the normal timeline of a person’s life. I just haven’t found the right relationship and trying to force something that isn’t right just to fit yourself into a box feels awful. Recently, I tried maintaining a relationship with a person I didn’t actually like that much because I felt like I had to settle down and quickly realized that I wasn’t doing myself a favor. It just became more painful.

    I’ve recently adopted the attitude of not worrying about what people think (not just for my lack of relationships, but for everything) and noticed a huge shift in EVERYTHING. Before I do something or say something I’ll ask myself if I’m doing it for ME or to impress/please someone else and honestly I’ve been SO much happier. I’ve been a people-pleaser my whole entire life. I’ve bent over backwards and made myself miserable and broke so many times just to conform to what someone else wants. I realized I am going to regret my entire life if I keep ignoring my own happiness. I also realized that I don’t owe anyone an explanation about anything that I do at all. I am a good, kind person and if I am not hurting anyone, who’s business is it if I do what I want to do?

    I realized that the need for societal approval, at least for me, came from a lack of self worth. Relying on approval to feel good about yourself is a quick way to become miserable because literally no matter what you do, people would disapprove of you. You could cure cancer and there would be somebody criticizing you. Once I realized this, everything changed. I rely on my own morals and ambitions to guide me. I can focus on what I actually want to do. I can try new things without the fear of “failure” because I realized that it’s not a failure if I don’t see it that way.

    Maybe it’s time to ask yourself why you’re needing the approval of others so badly and instead give yourself your own approval!

    #151414
    Ruby
    Participant

    Thanks! You both make some really good points! It’s so weird because I’m not religious (nor do I have a religious family) and there aren’t really any restrictions on us having a family while being married in this country and yet getting married has become my focus. I think even though my family is not religious they hold marriage as highly important. No one in my family has ever divorced (not sure if they’ve wanted to and felt that they couldn’t or anything though!) so I was brought up thinking that marriage was how families worked. Strangely my boyfriend’s family is the same. His parents are still married and seem very happy together. They hold hands in the street still! Perhaps things weren’t always like that with them or maybe he is rebelling against what he grew up with, instead of desiring it like me. I will talk to him more about his past and things though, as there could be more to it that he has never told me. He doesn’t express emotions well (very like my own dad!) and I know there is probably more he is feeling that he hasn’t felt brave enough to tell me. You comments have made me think if I had to choose between a man who is caring and thoughtful but doesn’t want marriage and a man who would get married but not treat me well. I know I would choose the first one. I need to let go of marriage as some sort of ‘achievement’ or ‘happily ever after’ that I see it as, and look at the relationship instead. I love him and I need to remember I have my happily ever after already.

    #151420
    Ruby
    Participant

    Hi zee

    sorry I didn’t read your comment before I just replied – I was composing my reply too long I guess. I totally agree with you! I am a total people pleaser and I really wish I wasn’t. I am wondering now whether a lot of my wishes and desires for marriage stems from parental pressure. I’ve always been a bit of an over-achiever and now I feel like I’m not meeting expectations (especially my family’s). My younger sister getting married and having a baby was a big catalyst for me feeling like I want to get married. I now question what that is really about!!! I definitely need to sit down and think about whether I want something for myself or for others deep down. Thanks!

    #151538
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Ruby:

    You  are welcome. Your family expressed to you their high value of marriage and so, understandably you value it as well. About your boyfriend, you wrote: “His parents… seem very happy together. They hold hands in the street still!” And you went on: “Perhaps things weren’t always like that with them”- maybe not, maybe there were troubles in their marriage, troubles he very well remembers. Maybe they appeared happy walking in the street, holding hands, and people thought they had a good marriage, but he knew better.

    Your plan to “talk to him more about his past and things though, as there could be more to it that he has never told me.”- is a good one, do it gently, in a casual tone- approach with caution: we, people, don’t like to talk about what is distressing to us.

    anita

     

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