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Living with the pain for nearly 40 years

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  • #224615
    Gary
    Participant

    Hello. I have a hole in my soul. 42 years ago I met a lovely young lady that I would eventually marry and have 2 beautiful children. About 3-4 years into the marriage I got caught up in activities that required a large time investment plus worked a full time job. What followed was my blindness to my wifes needs for my attention. And I basically dismissed it as an overreaction and suggested she get a job to break up her daily boredom. So she did. What followed some time after shook my world to it’s core. I started noticing that she would be coming home later and later , as I had to go to work I had to have somebody come in to watch our 4 and 2 year old. I’d get home around 4 pm and the babysitter would inform me that she didn’t get home till around noon , she should have gotten there normally around 8 am from her job shift. I was blind , trusting , and naive . She would tell me she was working overtime and so I didn’t think a lot about it. This went on for several ,  several weeks. It was beginning to cause considerable strife in our home. I hardly ever saw her as my rehearsals took place in the evenings . Eventually this led to a feeling of neglect and loneliness . I was 25 and she , 22. I made a horrible , horrible mistake. I became vulnerable and got involved in an affair.  It was about a month later that my 4 year old said “Mommy showed us Rob’s boat” which immediately caused alarm bells to go off and I asked her if she could show me Rob’s boat….and she directed me to a house. I shut off the car and gathered the kid’s to go knock on the door and BAM! around the corner of the house came my wife on this guys back ..riding piggyback. I had just caught her with her affair partner. I was LIVID!! I punched the guy in the face as my wife grabbed the kids and took off. I gathered my wits and went home trying to digest what I had just went thru , wondering where my wife had gone. Shortly afterwards and when I had calmed down considerably, she called. I asked her to come home and sort things out. I wanted to work this out to save our marriage. I would do anything to that end. She came home and we talked and I admitted to her that I too had been seeing someone (BIG MISTAKE) , but would stop immediately hoping she would feel the same way and do the same thing. She didn’t. She became indignant and continued her trysts over the next couple of weeks till I finally told her basically him or me . If she wanted to continue seeing him then he could financially support her , I wouldn’t. So I told her to leave. I called an attorney to seek immediate custody of the children and was granted.

    I knew this situation and was positive this guy was just enjoying a roll in the hay and would eventually dump her. We were separated for a little more than 3-4 months when I’d discovered they’d shacked up. I didn’t want my kids exposed to that. But she had visitation rights and so there wasn’t much I could do about it. I filed for divorce. Later she counter filed. I thought long and hard on this , you see , she didn’t think I loved her. She couldn’t have been more wrong. I was in my own private hell all the while of our separation and involved myself with no one. I withdrew my divorce papers….she didn’t. She seemed so callous and uncaring and it cut me to the bone. Nothing could save the marriage it seemed. You see , all during our separation she would call me and want to just chat. Like she wanted to string me along with a glimmer of hope. Finally the day came for the divorce and we sat on a bench outside the courtroom I looked into her eyes and told her , “You still have a few minutes to change your mind , because no matter how I feel about you , when the judge hits the gavel..it’s over , done.”  We entered the courtroom and it was like an execution to me. She let it go … “Divorce granted”. I just sighed and we walked out. I failed our marriage. I was miserable , but I looked at her , took her hand and said “Have a good life” as sincerely as I could. I was broken when I caught them , I was numb at the divorce. Now…just two weeks later..I get a knock on the door. It’s her. I’m thinking “What are you doing here.” She looks at me with teary eyes and exclaims ” You were the best friend I ever had”… I’m thinking “Really …who was MY best friend”… something had happened with loverboy , I didn’t know what , and it didn’t matter. I told her my intention on that bench at the divorce. It’s over and I’m going to seek out someone new to spend my life with. And asked her to leave. So she went back to loverboy. They eventually married , he joined the navy. HUH , and you thought I wasn’t home enough…pfffft…it lasted 2 1/2 years and he left her for yet another girl. Talk about poetic justice. So she starts calling again , but by now I’ve remarried and these calls are becoming troublesome. So I had to shut her out , completely.

    You know a situation where you know with utmost regret you have to kill a thing rather than see it suffer…That’s where I was when I cut her off of communication.

    I finally met a gem. A selfless , gracious young lady who wasn’t intimidated in helping with my kids. We’ve been happily married for 35 years.

    My ex finally realized she had to move on as I wasn’t playing the game anymore so she moved , found another and married again. That lasted about 5 years and he passed away. She is widowed and moved back into the general area.

    Now to the meat of the matter. I know I screwed up , royally. And I apologized , several times in fact.  But you know , I never even got an “I’m sorry for hurting you” from my ex , ever. Yes , she had my children , but I cannot , for the life of me , remember her ever telling me she loved me. I just interpreted actions as acknowledgement. And (this REALLY hurts) I ‘m not sure she ever loved me…

    I’m 63 and there is not a whole lot of time left for me..family history and all…but I need absolute closure. I’d like to talk to her to answer these questions and do NOT want to hurt my wife by making her think anything is going on. Most probably be the last conversation with her in my life. I really don’t want to go out without knowing. I’ll accept anything she tells me but I need to know as it’s a hole in my soul.

     

     

     

     

    #224631
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Gary:

    You wrote, “I’d like to talk to her to answer these questions… I really don’t want to go out without knowing. I’ll accept anything she tells me but I need to know”

    But why would you “accept anything she tells” you as the truth, or even her truth?

    It would be a shame to close a hole in the soul with a lie, or something someone says because it sounds better than the truth. Isn’t it?

    anita

     

    #224633
    Inky
    Participant

    Hi Gary,

    I’m sure she loved you (at the time) but keep in mind you guys were ONLY in your early to mid twenties. Babies by comparison to where you are now. All babies look cute and adorable, especially to each other. So here she is, a young mother, and she got swept off her feet by the guy next door. Classic cliché. She was overwhelmed and selfish. That’s about the extent of it. This baby raising babies made a very grown up, very serious mistake. Then karma bites her in the butt with marriage number two. Then husband number three dies. Now she’s a grown azz woman.

    Now you’re going to call her and she’ll tell you… what, exactly? This is like a 21 year old calling someone they were best friends with at 7 and asking, “Why wouldn’t you play with me anymore?” Or something like that.

    We are all getting older. We are all going to die. Give YOURSELF closure. She can’t do it for you, no matter what she says. Label it “My First Love. Mother of my Children.”

    Best,

    Inky

    #224649
    Gary
    Participant

    thanks….maybe your right …it just periodically hurts to this day.

    #224663
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Gary:

    You are welcome. I will repeat your share and follow with my thoughts:

    When you were 21 you met an 18 year old woman you married and immediately had two children. You got very busy with full time work and other activities and didn’t spend much time with your young wife. She shared with you that she was bored or lonely and you suggested that she “gets a job to break up her daily boredom”.

    While the children were 2 and 4, your then 22 year old wife did get a job and worked night shift. Instead of returning home around 8 am, she returned around noon day after day for several weeks. She lied to you and told you that she worked overtime. You hardy saw her and felt neglected and lonely. Next, you had an affair with another woman.

    At about that time, your four year old daughter directed you to Rob’s boat, your wife’s lover. Your four year old got in the car with you and directed you to arrive at Rob’s boat (“she directed me to a house. I shut off the car and gathered the kid…”). There you witnessed your wife “riding piggyback” with Rob. Following punching Rob in the face, once with your wife again, you told her about your affair, hoping the two of you will put an end to your respective affairs.

    You ended your affair but she continued hers. You then called an attorney to seek immediate custody of the children and was granted that. Following a few months separation from your wife you discovered she was living with Rob. You then filed for divorce and she counter filed. You rethought the divorce, feeling love for her,  and withdrew your divorce papers. But she didn’t and divorce was granted.

    Two weeks after the divorce was granted she showed up at your door and told you: “You were the best friend I ever had”. You asked her to leave. She went back to Rob, eventually marrying him. Her marriage to Rob lasted 2.5 years and he left her for another woman. She then called you but you were remarried at that point and you “cut her off of communication”. She then married again and that (third) marriage lasted five years. Her third husband died and widowed, she now lives in the general area where you live.

    You got remarried at 28 to a young woman who accepted you and your two young children. Now married for 35 years, your two children are about forty years old.

    You are struggling with the following: you don’t remember your ex wife ever telling you that she loved you and you are not sure she ever loved you. She never apologized to you for hurting you by having the affair with Rob. You now “need absolute closure” and would “like to talk to her to answer these questions” but you don’t want to hurt your wife of 35 years by talking to your ex wife of long ago.

    My thoughts: Let’s say you met your ex wife and asked her: did you ever love me? If she said Yes (or No), would that be the closure, will that be all it takes to achieve that closure? If you asked her: why didn’t you ever apologize to me about your affair? And she would then apologize, almost forty years after that affair, will the be your closure?

    If your answers are affirmative, that is all it would take to close that hole in your soul, then it is a good idea to talk with her. But if the answer is that it might not suffice to provide you relief from that  pain you are experiencing, I think it is way better that instead of talking to your ex wife of so long ago, that you talk to a good psychotherapist. In therapy you can examine the nature of that hole in the soul, the nature of the closure you are seeking. There you are likely to discover that the closure you are seeking cannot happen in one conversation with… anyone.

    anita

     

    #225019
    Gary
    Participant

    I’ve been beating myself up over this , but I do realize it doesn’t matter anymore , she never wanted to give it a second chance , she separated completely , she had total disregard for my pain , and now , I know  , she is wallowing in self pity and regret. Not meaning to be cruel , but she just wanted to play the whore and I just couldn’t deal with it. So if she ever reads this , and she’ll know exactly who this is , I’m sorry , but I’m happier now , I got extremely lucky finding a woman that does care and voluntarily took on all my psychological baggage to love me. Some people learn from their mistakes , I did. Others refuse to place any blame on themselves and go though their entire lives in denial. Sorry for them , they made those choices themselves . They put themselves in that position.

    #225021
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Gary:

    “She seemed so callous and uncaring and it cut me to the bone”, you wrote in your original post. Then you wrote, “it just periodically hurts to this day”- her betrayal of you almost forty years ago still hurts.

    It reads to me that you did all the right things in spite of that pain, getting custody of the children, ending any and all efforts to resume the relationship  once the divorce was granted, getting remarried to a good woman with whom you’ve been married for 35 years, and you did all that despite the hurt.

    Betrayal hurts, a whole lot. It may still hurt. There is no undoing of betrayal, undoing of the hurt that results. But I o hope that this thread is the closure you have been seeking. If she reads it, like you wrote, she will know it is about her. If she doesn’t read it, I read your story. Others have. Your story of betrayal and hurt has been read and acknowledged.

    anita

    #320459
    Gary
    Participant

    I have read and researched many forums and articles regarding my past situation and it tends to point to a personality disorder. There is really no other rational explanation. I married a narcissistic sociopath.

    #320535
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Gary:

    You are now 64. Your ex wife cheated on you when you were about 24, this is forty years ago. You divorced her soon after and got remarried. And yet, your anger is still intense and relentless forty years later. Coming to the “narcissistic sociopath” label for her is not likely to end this “pain for nearly 40 years”, or close that “hole in (your) soul”.

    There is more to your anger than what this woman did forty years ago.

    anita

    #383706
    Gary
    Participant

    I’ve learned she has glioblastoma. I feel horrible for our adult kids. Her life , I’m sure , is nothing like she imagined it would be.

    And , no , I’m way beyond the anger. I got to indifference even before the divorce.

    #383709
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Gary:

    You are back almost 3 years following our last communication. You found out that your first wife suffers from an aggressive brain tumor and you feel badly for your shared adult children. How are they reacting to this terrible news, and how are you feeling about it?

    anita

    #383805
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Gary,

    it seems to me you’re feeling a complex mix of emotions. You feel sorry for her, since she’s terminally ill, but it seems you also resent her for going through with the divorce (“She seemed so callous and uncaring and it cut me to the bone.”) and for never apologizing for hurting you.

    You’re wondering if she ever even loved you, and would like to get that answer from her, before she dies. Well, what if she loved you but in a selfish and immature way (like Inky said), and since you weren’t meeting her needs, she looked for someone else. And then when she found that you too had an affair, she was extremely offended (indignant, you say) and perhaps continued with Rob partly out of spite.

    It seems she wasn’t mature enough to apologize, perhaps she felt she was hurt more by your cheating than you were by hers (which also suggest immaturity on her part). Also the fact that she would be spending time with her lover while her two small children (age 2 and 4) were alone with the babysitter shows another layer of irresponsibility and immaturity.

    If you look at her as having been immature at the time you knew her (and if you agree with this characterization), how do you feel about her?

     

    #383814
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Gary,

    something else occurred to me – she opted for a night job, which seems like a pretty radical way to “break up her daily boredom”. You then practically didn’t see each other, because you were busy the entire day (full-time job plus rehearsals in the evening), while she was away the entire night.

    Her choice of job also might have been her way of showing protest to your not paying attention to her, to letting her work in the night shift instead of stopping her and showing that you care about her. But you didn’t pick that up, but rather got involved in an affair yourself…

    It shows you both made some rash, immature decisions at that time. The difference is that you’ve later realized your mistake, regretted it and apologized, while she hasn’t. You wanted to repair what was broken, she didn’t.

    I wonder if you’ve ever apologized to her for not being there for her enough in those first few years of marriage, and for suggesting she should find a job, instead of spending more time with her?

     

    #385177
    Gary
    Participant

    Looking back at events throughout the years , I believe she just got to a place while very young , that made her believe she was missing something in life. Yes , she did become very irresponsible and extremely undependable. Yes , she did get involved in a long term affair long before I fell into one. There are no excuses , no justification for infidelity , none. There are choices. We make bad choices. That’s just being human. But we can own our mistakes and express genuine remorse and seek forgiveness.

    Does a soldier need to apologize to his wife for serving his country on an extended tour of duty? Does a fireman have to apologize for their absence while on there job. No , it was all a matter of insecurity. I was there , all she had to do was open up and talk about it. I recommended counseling , therapy , whatever it took …  she was just not interested. She became so selfish she became unrecognizable. I remember asking her at one point why she married me. One might expect an answer like “Because I loved you.”  That’s not what I got. I got a “What else was I suppose to do.” (She was pregnant with our first)

    A long while has past since my original post , and although I’ll never forget those days and events of long ago , I’m in a much better place now. I’ve been married to my present wife for 38 years and she has stood by my side through that period of severe depression. She knows the whole story. We’ve had our ups and downs but we never gave up and I am so very thankful that I found her those many years ago. If my ex and I had never divorced , I would never had met my current wife. So I thank her for that.

    As was said , people have choices ,  the choices you make will dictate the degree of your character.

    #385198
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Gary,

    A long while has past since my original post , and although I’ll never forget those days and events of long ago , I’m in a much better place now.

    You started this thread saying you are in pain because you don’t know if she ever loved you, and that you need to know before she passes away. You now say that she indirectly told you she didn’t marry you out of love but because she got pregnant with your child (“What else was I suppose to do.”)

    You sort of have your answer (and had it years ago), but are you at peace with it? To be honest, it seems to me that a part of you wants to put all the blame on her for your breakup (and in the recent weeks this part got stronger and more convinced that it was completely her fault). But another part of you has doubts, and that was the part writing the original post.

    In your original post you wrote:

    About 3-4 years into the marriage I got caught up in activities that required a large time investment plus worked a full time job. What followed was my blindness to my wifes needs for my attention. And I basically dismissed it as an overreaction and suggested she get a job to break up her daily boredom.

    You acknowledged that you were blind to your wife’s needs, that you dismissed them and suggested her to find a job to “break up her daily boredom.” I can hardly imagine a woman with 2 small children (and no full-time nanny service) to be bored during the day. Raising 2 small children is a full-time job, so I don’t understand what you were referring to when you described her problem as “daily boredom”? I cannot match raising 2 small children with “boredom”, but rather with “exhaustion”. That’s why I said that when she opted for a job in the night shift, she might have done it out of spite, protesting against you accusing her of boredom.

    You now say that you gave your wife everything she needed:

    I was there , all she had to do was open up and talk about it. I recommended counseling , therapy , whatever it took … she was just not interested.

    So when she first complained and asked for more attention from you, did you dismiss it and suggested she should find a job, or you were there for her, showing compassion and understanding? I think that if you want to heal the pain you are occasionally feeling, it would be important that you answer this question honestly for yourself…

     

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